Palestinians hit by sonic boom air raids

· UN condemns night noise attacks as indiscriminate
· Agencies say they cause trauma and miscarriages

Chris McGreal in Gaza
Thursday November 3, 2005
The Guardian

Israel is deploying a terrifying new tactic against Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip by letting loose deafening "sound bombs" that cause widespread fear, induce miscarriages and traumatise children.

The removal of Jewish settlers from the Gaza Strip opened the way for the military to use air force jets to create dozens of sonic booms by breaking the sound barrier at low altitude, sending shockwaves across the territory, often at night. Palestinians liken the sound to an earthquake or huge bomb. They describe the effect as being hit by a wall of air that is painful on the ears, sometimes causing nosebleeds and "leaving you shaking inside".

The Palestinian health ministry says the sonic booms have led to miscarriages and heart problems. The United Nations has demanded an end to the tactic, saying it causes panic attacks in children. The shockwaves have also damaged buildings by cracking walls and smashing thousands of windows.
...
Over the past week, Israeli jets created 28 sonic booms by flying at high speed and low altitude over the Gaza Strip, sometimes as little as an hour apart through the night. During five days in late September, the air force caused 29 sonic booms.
...
The military was forced to apologise after one sonic boom was unintentionally heard hundreds of kilometres inside Israel last week. Maariv newspaper described it as sounding "like a heavy bombardment. The noise that shook the Israeli skies was frightening. Thousands of citizens leapt in panic from their beds, and many of them placed worried calls to the police and the fire department. The Tel Aviv and central district police switchboards crashed."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1607450,00.html
+++++++++++++++++++++

God I hate the hypocritical Israeli terrorists.

If this isn't harmful and isn't collective punishment one has to ask, why wasn't it done when the illegal settlements were there? Why did the military apologize for letting one lose over Israel? Why is the military even doing it?

We are in agreement on this. This is government sponsored terrorism and should be stopped. It should be stopped because it not only targets the terrorists but the entire civilian population.

If the intent behind giving up the Gaza strip to the Palistinians is to allow Israel more freedom to torture the civilians, then that is not acceptable. A strong message needs to be sent so that these practices will stop immediately. If our country can be big daddy to Israel when they are being attacked, then we can play strict parent when they are doing wrong.

One intent was to distract people with the Gaza pull out while they simultainiously stole more land, then they were giving up, in the West Bank.

You disgust me, guerilla, you know that?

Never mind the kinds of brutality the Palestinians have heaped upon the Iraelis, or that every single country in the Middle East is out to destroy Israel and a couple have tried, or the fact it seems one of the principle purposes of the U.N. is to condemn Israel or the fact that Israel got formed because the Jews who survived the Holocaust no longer wanted to live upon the tender mercies of other countries or the fact that Jews have historically been beaten, raped, murdered, banished, robbed and accused of just about every conspiracy there is. And woe betide them when they have the utter gall to go and do something to defend themselves.

There is an element of people on these boards who are very, very quick to condemn American and Israeli action. It's not going to wash with, dammit.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
You disgust me, guerilla, you know that?

The truth is disgusting to your ilk.



Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Never mind the kinds of brutality the Palestinians have heaped upon the Iraelis,, yadda yadda yadda..................There is an element of people on these boards who are very, very quick to condemn American and Israeli action. It's not going to wash with, dammit.

So.

I'm not really interested in what will "wash" with you or what will not wash with you in regards to criticism of Israel. We are discussing another subject here; is the practice of using sonic booms against the populace over there deplorable, or not?

That is the question here.

(I will save my feelings about Israel for another thread, except to say that if Israel was not occupying a country that is not theirs, they would not be having any of the things you mention happening to them.)

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
And woe betide them when they have the utter gall to go and do something to defend themselves.


Are you suggesting that Israel is doing this to defend themselves?

Darth Be'lal,

While I fully support Israel's right to exist, I do not support her right to terrorize her neighbors, steal land that does not belong to her, refuse to give building permits to non-Jewish Israeli citizens, build settlements in Palestinian areas, confiscate land belonging to Palestinians within the State of Israel, spy on the United States, or a host of other bully tactics the Israelis feel free to use because their country was formed to give a safe haven to an oppressed people.

The Holocaust of over sixty years ago does not give them carte blanche to act in any way they wish.

Some rebuttals,

Freethinker's quote:

We are discussing another subject here; is the practice of using sonic booms against the populace over there deplorable, or not?


No freethinker, I'm not going to get locked into your rules for discussing a particular topic. I'm pointing out that certain members of this board will gleefully point out "attrocities" committed by the U.S. and Israel yet ignore (Israel comes in a distant second) attrocities by various Communist/middle eastern countries and it gets tiresome.

Is using sonic booms to rattle a populace deplorable? Under normal circumstances, yes. What I find truly deplorable is the fact that the Palestinians go and encourage their own children to strap bombs on themselves and go blow up Israelis. Come and talk to me about so-called Israeli attrocities when the rest of the Middle East is truly interested in peace with Israel, dammit.


Are you suggesting that Israel is doing this to defend themselves?

Well gee, if the it makes the Palestinians stop their suicide bombings, then yes they are defending themselves. This whole Middle East situation is ugly, but I'm not about to pick on Israel when the real culprits are Hezbollah and the governments of just about every single Middle Eastern country who are fanning this conflict no matter what the U.S./Israel try to do for peace.


The Holocaust of over sixty years ago does not give them carte blanche to act in any way they wish.

No, frogger, not carte blanche for the Israelis to do as they wish with their neighbors, but if the rest of the world would make it clear that they are no longer going to turn a blind eye to Muslim Jihad against Israel, THEN we can start on the road to peace in the Middle East. And you know just as well as I do that if the Palestinians would stop their terror attacks agaisnt Israelis, the Israelis would make peace with their neighbors. I can't believe that I just had to point that out to you.


Dammit.

Darth Be'lal,

No one is disputing Israel's right to defend herself and her territory. What is being discussed is Israel's seeming inability to recognize that in certain areas she is acting as a rogue bully.

If Palestinians commit terrorist acts I fully support Israel's position that they have forfitted their lives. I do not support Israel's position that Arab Israeli citizens are second class citizens. I do not support the confiscation of Arab Israeli land, the refusal to grant them building permits, cutting off their water supplies, designating certain roads for Jewish Israeli use only, among other crimes the Israeli government commits.

You seem to be taking the tack that to criticize Israel in any way is to critize the existence of the country. No one has done that.

Frogger,

Thank you for presenting your point of views in a civil, logical and clear manner. Sometimes, when ideas get exchanged, things get out of hand.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
IWhat I find truly deplorable is the fact that the Palestinians go and encourage their own children to strap bombs on themselves and go blow up Israelis. Come and talk to me about so-called Israeli attrocities when the rest of the Middle East is truly interested in peace with Israel, dammit.

Are you suggesting that we should ignore anything Israel does as long as there's a threat of Palestinian terrorism?


Well gee, if the it makes the Palestinians stop their suicide bombings, then yes they are defending themselves.

Doesn't it seem more likely to incite more attacks, rather than doing anything to stop them?

Honestly Darth, what possible benefit to Israel could come from these tactics?

Vile's quotes....

Are you suggesting that we should ignore anything Israel does as long as there's a threat of Palestinian terrorism?


My position is that the International Community, the U.N., the World, whatever you wish to call has a tendency to hold Israel to higher humanitarian standards and has leaned on Israel to make the most concessions, usually in the form of giving land back to the Palestinians, while at the same time turning a blind eye to terrorist activities that Palestinians engage in. I would take accusations of Israeli human right's abuses more seriously if it weren't for the fact that the rest of the world wants Israel to die a quiet death in order to keep the Muslims happy. Which is what's happening, and everyone knows it.


Doesn't it seem more likely to incite more attacks, rather than doing anything to stop them?


Yes, no doubt the Palestinians will no doubt use Israeli activities as justification for more suicide bombings, but it was going to happen anyway. And I can add that there is an element in various governments, media and others that are sensitive to ANY Israeli human rights abuses and will turn a blind eye when the Palestinians seek "revenge." So, it's an ugly situation all around, dammit.


Honestly Darth, what possible benefit to Israel could come from these tactics?

Nothing. Isreal is being slowly strangled, and most of the world really doesn't care.

Nothing. Isreal is being slowly strangled, and most of the world really doesn't care.

I hate to say this, but Isreal should have never existed in the first place. Go ahead, call me an anti-Semite. I don't care.

I hate to say this, but Isreal should have never existed in the first place. Go ahead, call me an anti-Semite. I don't care.


Whether or not you feel Israel should exist, you had better be careful who you ally with. The Islamists who are fueling the Palestinian problem (and this conflict IS being fueled!) are not going to be content with merely destroying Israel. They want to come after the U.S. as well and will do so the first chance they get. The world community allowing Islamists to extinguish Israel is only going to make them bolder and their brand of Radical Islam could very well spread. I won't say that there is a coordinated world wide jihad type conspiracy, but there is an element afoot that is working to undermine the West. So, you can hate the Israelis, or think they shouldn't exist, but it would be wise to support them. The Israelis aren't the ones who strap bombs to their children and let them loose on buses or in malls. Nor are they the ones flying airplanes into skyscrapers, nor are they the ones who are rioting in France.


You're playing with fire, napster, and you could get very badly burned, dammit.

Darth, what is to be gained by sonic-booming the Palestinians? I mean, it's expensive...it's a deliberate tactic to accomplish a specific goal...what goal?

I don't agree with Napsterbater's statement that Israel has no right to exist, but I do feel it had no right existing at the expense of the people who were living in the area at the time of the creation of the country.

You can't redress on wrong by committing another and that is exactly what Great Britain and the world community did with the creation of Israel. They took the land away from the people living there and gave it to displaced Europeans. This was bound to cause resentment among those displaced and their fellow Muslims.

Palestinians were turned out of their homes, their fields, olive groves and businesses were confiscated. They were told to leave. Those who didn't leave were often killed and those who weren't killed were given second class citizenship.

The hatred has continued to spiral but it was initially caused by the creation of the State of Israel.

There is blame on both sides for the current heightened state of hatred but the initial blame for the Intafada must fall on Sharon and his provacatative incursion onto the Temple Rock. He had to know that his forcing his way into one of the most holy site of Islam would lead to massive fighting. I honestly think that was his plan. Get the Palestinians riled up and fighting and there will be an excuse to confiscate more of their land and place them more fully under the iron thumb of an occupying army.

The daily slights and insults offered to Palestinians does nothing to lessen tensions. Not being allowed to travel on roads that go right past your village, having your olive trees chopped down or confiscated by Jewish settlers, having building permits denied and buildings that are built without permits bulldozed, all these daily insults only add to the hatred.

The Palelstinians are wrong and killing civilians is never the correct path but perhaps the bombings would stop or at least lessen if Israel stopped poking the Palestinians in the eye with a stick every day.

Wow a rational Zionist. I didn't know your type existed Frogger. Thank God you have a realistic grasp on the situation.

Darth on the other hand is a rabid racist.

The Islamists who are fueling the Palestinian problem (and this conflict IS being fueled!) are not going to be content with merely destroying Israel. They want to come after the U.S. as well and will do so the first chance they get. Gee lets see why would they hate the US?...could it be that all those weapons used to murder and terrorize palistinians were bought and paid for by the US? Seems pretty obvious to me. If the US didn't block every vote at the UN to stop Israeli attrocities committed with a yearly $4 billion US then they could probably care less about the US. You're also assuming they hav the ability to do anything to the US. Sure you'll point to 9-11 to say that they can. So then do you really think there would be more if the Israel/Palistine problem was actually addressed? Or do you think they might thank the US for finally taking a proactive move to stop decades of bloodshed?

There is blame on both sides for the current heightened state of hatred but the initial blame for the Intafada must fall on Sharon and his provacatative incursion onto the Temple Rock. He had to know that his forcing his way into one of the most holy site of Islam would lead to massive fighting. I honestly think that was his plan. Get the Palestinians riled up and fighting and there will be an excuse to confiscate more of their land and place them more fully under the iron thumb of an occupying army. That has always been the plan. Always push the envelop and count on a brainwashed victim mentality to back every move. Then wait for the response and comeback 10x's as hard against innocents which creates more violent radicals ad infiniti...

I was worried a few days ago becuse Israel is blocking access to Al Aqsa during Ramadon. I'm surprised nothing has happened over that yet.

My position is that the International Community, the U.N., the World, whatever you wish to call has a tendency to hold Israel to higher humanitarian standards and has leaned on Israel to make the most concessions, usually in the form of giving land back to the Palestinians, while at the same time turning a blind eye to terrorist activities that Palestinians engage in. File this under unclear on teh concept
the fact it seems one of the principle purposes of the U.N. is to condemn Israel or the fact that Israel got formed because the Jews who survived the Holocaust no longer wanted to live upon the tender mercies of other countries or the fact that Jews have historically been beaten, raped, murdered, banished, robbed and accused of just about every conspiracy there is. and this is the palistinains fault how?

So Darth does your condemnation of theocracies only include Islam?

Vile,

Darth, what is to be gained by sonic-booming the Palestinians? I mean, it's expensive...it's a deliberate tactic to accomplish a specific goal...what goal?

A whole bunch of nothing is going to be achieved by Israel's actions is what. There will be another fatma or whatever the hell they call it, another round of "peace talks" more land given up by Israel, then more terrorism. It's an ugly process, dammit.


So Darth does your condemnation of theocracies only include Islam?

Well gee, guerilla, seeing as how it's the Jihadists who hold the monopoly on suicide bombers in one form or another, and it's they who are causing all the trouble in various parts of the world, I would have to say that they hold my strongest condemnation, dammit.

They want to come after the U.S. as well and will do so the first chance they get.

With what? Their weapons of mass destruction?

And why should I support a people who commit such gross human rights violations?

I suppose you are going to claim that Al Qaida(!!!) is behind the Palestinian revolt, not just a bunch of disenfranchised Palestinians trying to get their land back. I'm not saying that terror groups don't have a presence throughout the Middle East, just that linking them to every single riot and act of violence is quite silly.

You cannot simultaneously prevent war, and prepare for it.

(Darth Be'lal)


And you go and post a crap piece on how the Israelis are using sonic booms to terrorize the Palestinians as if the Palestinians were all home baking cookies and out of the blue the Israelis decide to scare the hell out of them.
Darth, since sonic booms cannot be directed at a particular target, yes, Israel was using the sonic booms to terrorize the Palestinians, including those who were home baking cookies. It was a way for Israel to remind the Palestinians, including those home baking cookies, that Israel possesses fighter planes and other military hardware far superior to anything the Palestinians possess. It was just another poking of Palestinians in the eye with a stick. It was an uncalled for provocation.

Frogger,


My main point got lost along the way. What I don't is when attrocities done by Israel have this tendency to recieve more attention then attrocities done by Palestinians.


I've also pointed out that the goal of most of the Middle Eastern countries, notably, Syria and Iran are out to extinguish Israel. And I WILL defend democracies, even when the do the occassional bad thing.


Is the sonic boom thing wrong for Israel to do? In a word, yes. However, I'll take Israel and their sonic booms over Hezbollah telling Palestinian kids they'll go to heaven and have 70 virgins is they just take this bomb, go on that bus, and blow themselves and the bus up.


Keep in mind that those fueling the Palestinian/Israeli conflict hate the U.S. as much as they Israel. Care should be taken who you ally with.

And I WILL defend democracies, even when the do the occassional bad thing.

I bet if they made Iraq a democracy, without American influence, they would vote themselves into a theocracy.

Keep in mind that those fueling the Palestinian/Israeli conflict hate the U.S. as much as they Israel.

Only as a proxy, I believe the anti-American spirit in the middle east would lose a lot of thunder if America withdrew support for Isreal. If that happened, the Isrealis would most assuredly have to go home.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
What I don't (like?) is when attrocities done by Israel have this tendency to recieve more attention then attrocities done by Palestinians.

Except that the exact opposite is the case, as it concerns mainstream reporting in America on the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. It is well documented.

Isrealis have killed several times as many Palestinians as vice versa [as happens every day, every week, every year], yet the mainstream media persistently focuses on and concentrates its coverage on Palestinian attacks on Israelis instead of Israeli attacks on Palestinians.

Israelis can send helicopter gunships in and kill 25 Palestinians, and little attention is paid to it.....let a Palestinian bomber kill himself and three Israelis and the corporate-owned and controlled US media is all over it, with prime time coverage.

And I WILL defend democracies, even when the do the occassional bad thing. Too bad Israel isn't a democracy, its a theocracy. Non-jews are second class citizens denied basic human rights and equality in Israel. Just like how the US has only recently become a democracy. Institutionalized racism denys the very chance of democracy.

However, I'll take Israel and their sonic booms over Hezbollah telling Palestinian kids they'll go to heaven and have 70 virgins is they just take this bomb, go on that bus, and blow themselves and the bus up. While I am sure it happens occasionally kids do not just up and decide to kill themselves. They need motivation. I would say the contant threat of death from terrorism would do the trick just right. Thankfully Israel hass made sure Hezbollah will have recruits so long as the occupation continues.

Oh you also seem unaware of the fact that the Israeli military uses public buses explicitly for this purpose. Hezbollah is tageting the military, who uses the buses to ensure that innocent civilians will be killed if someone goes after them. Which ensures that there will be outrage (and rightfully so) at their deaths. (but hey under your logic if they were going after military targets then "collateral damage" is nothing to be trifled with right?) Israelis have a history of using human sheilds, especially jewish ones. The illegal settlements are nothing but human sheilded land grabs.

I've also pointed out that the goal of most of the Middle Eastern countries, notably, Syria and Iran are out to extinguish Israel. Because Israel refuses the right of Palistine to exist. You see the nice little cycle of death thats going on there now?
What I don't is when attrocities done by Israel have this tendency to recieve more attention then attrocities done by Palestinians. Wrong wrong wrong. There have been numerous studies on this subject.

Media Study of NPR:
During the six-month period studied, NPR reported the deaths of 62 Israelis and 51 Palestinians. While on the surface that may not appear to be hugely lopsided, during the same time period 77 Israelis and 148 Palestinians were killed in the conflict. That means there was an 81 percent likelihood that an Israeli death would be reported on NPR, but only a 34 percent likelihood that a Palestinian death would be.
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1086

Media Study of The NY times:
In the first study period The Times reported Israeli deaths at a rate 2.8 times higher than Palestinian deaths, and in 2004 this rate increased by almost 30%, to 3.6, widening still further the disparity in coverage. The Times’ coverage of children’s deaths was even more skewed. In the first year of the current uprising, Israeli children’s deaths were reported at 6.8 times the rate of Palestinian children’s deaths. In 2004 this differential also increased, with deaths of Israeli children covered at a rate 7.3 times greater than the deaths of Palestinian children.
http://ifamericaknew.org/media/nyt-report.html

On ABC, CBS and NBC:
In the first study period ABC, CBS, and NBC reported Israeli deaths at rates 3.1, 3.8, and 4.0 times higher than Palestinian deaths, respectively. In 2004 these rates increased or stayed constant, to 4.0, 3.8, and 4.4, widening still further, in the case of ABC and NBC, the disparity in coverage. An additional sub-study of deaths reported in introductions revealed a similar but even larger disparity.
http://ifamericaknew.org/media/net-report.html

Israeli deaths are reported far more often than Palistinians ones. That is an indisputable fact and bias in the media. I've looked for criticism from the Pro-Israeli side and found nothing but opinions and foaming at the mouth that there is any coverage of Palistine at all.

Keep in mind that those fueling the Palestinian/Israeli conflict hate the U.S. as much as they Israel. Care should be taken who you ally with. I ally with Humanity and the right of all peoples to self determination regardlesss of where they live or what others fasley claim to do in their name.

Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race. -- Albert Einstein

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
The illegal (Israeli) settlements are nothing but human sheilded land grabs.

True.

THAT one fact is the bottom line in all the discussion on this issue.

I am sure if the paestinians had jets they would be doing more then buzzin the neighborhoods at mach 1

Originally posted by Travh20
I am sure if the paestinians had jets they would be doing more then buzzin the neighborhoods at mach 1

And this makes what Israel is doing ok because?