This is an interesting article from todays Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/01/AR2005110101644.html

It seems that the CIA acting under authorization from the President has set up a system of offshore prisons for terrorism suspects. This is secret even from members of the Intelligence Commitees of Congress. It is also secret from the governments of some of the host countries, although it has been disclosed to their intelligence services.
I worry a great deal about this. It seems to me that we are rapidly suspending the rule of law in the world. We have not informed the governments of some of the host countries, according to the article, because we are afraid of legal challenges to the practices. We can't even tell Congress, because they might act to limit the practices, or even exert control.
My question is, how does this differ from the practices of the worst dictatorships of the world? You remember them, the ones we condemn for their barbaric violations of human rights. That is the reason we must oppose them. It is also the reason we must oppose the same practices being used here.

I almost agree with you about the secret prisons. Not that I am against keeping them at a secret location but the fact that I think prison is too good for them.

They should be tried and any found guilty of promoting terrorism should be executed. That goes not only for those doing the actual fighting but also those supporting them with logistics, information, or aid of any kind.

During wars, enemy combatants who are not in uniform are subject to execution and are not protected by the Geneva Conventions. Enemy combatants out of uniform and behind your lines are automatically considered spies and subject to execution.

It is time to get really serious about fighting terrorism. Do like the Israelis. Help a terrorist and we consider you a terrorist. Be a terrorist and risk being killed while you are getting into your car or talking on your cell phone.

Originally posted by Imagineer

My question is, how does this differ from the practices of the worst dictatorships of the world?

It doesn't, of course. But someone's managed to convince themselves that it's OK if someone does it for us. I suspect 50 years from now this will be viewed universally as an extremely low point in the history of the U.S.

It is time to get really serious about fighting terrorism.

I'm too tired to mock you. But trust me, the bemused cheeriness is definately there.

I'm more worried about the explosive reaction about another CIA secret being blown. Imagine the reactions of Joe Wilson, Dop, Chris Matthews, Guerilla and Freethinker. Their outrage will be palpable.

We'd better find the source of those leaks. I'm not sure how many agents have already been killed because of this disclosure, but I'm sure Dop already knows.

Originally posted by Frogger
Do like the Israelis.
Because they've done such a good job curbing terrorism.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Because they've done such a good job curbing terrorism.

They've probably stopped a greater percentage of terrorism attempts than anybody else in the world.

Originally posted by Brooks
They've probably stopped a greater percentage of terrorism attempts than anybody else in the world.
Of course they've stopped more, they have had more opportunities to stop terrorism. Hence the fact that they are in an area of the world with a high percent of terrorists and a high percent of terrorists who hate and want to kill them. Thus they have more opportunities to stop terrorism.

Also, Isreal, because of the way they act (IE: invading the West Bank, taking extra land) they've created a lot more hatred for America and for talking points terrorists use against us since we back Israel.

They have not been a positive role in fighting terrorism. They've stopped more because they create more terrorists who flock to their nation because of hate. Not the best way to fight or help terrorism.

Originally posted by Frogger

They should be tried and any found guilty of promoting terrorism should be executed.

I agree.

Let's start with the callous bastards in Washington DC who fomented a bogus "war" so their friends in the defense and petroleum industires could become fabulously wealthy.

FT, as much as I admire your idealism and drive, you can't act like a mindless bot shoving leftist propaganda in people's faces at every turn, and expect people to take you seriously. For the sake of the tiny minority of vocal leftists here, please at least try to be a little more responsive to others and their ideals.

And I realise that nobody here takes me seriously either, but I am not pushing a political agenda. There is nothing wrong with a political agenda, mind you, you just have to wrap it in the appropriate package. Presentation is everything.

Originally posted by Frogger
I almost agree with you about the secret prisons. Not that I am against keeping them at a secret location but the fact that I think prison is too good for them.

They should be tried and any found guilty of promoting terrorism should be executed. That goes not only for those doing the actual fighting but also those supporting them with logistics, information, or aid of any kind.

During wars, enemy combatants who are not in uniform are subject to execution and are not protected by the Geneva Conventions. Enemy combatants out of uniform and behind your lines are automatically considered spies and subject to execution.

It is time to get really serious about fighting terrorism. Do like the Israelis. Help a terrorist and we consider you a terrorist. Be a terrorist and risk being killed while you are getting into your car or talking on your cell phone.


I agree that trials should be held for anyone in those prisons. If there is evidence, and convictions are obtained, then by all means punish them to the full extent allowable under the law.

One of the problems about how enemy combatants who are not in uniform are to be treated is that there are no front lines, and for the most part we are not fighting an army run by a government. Thus the lack of uniforms. The Geneva Conventions were not designed to cover this sort of conflict. In fact there is very little legal precedent for how prisoners in this sort of conflict should be treated. What seems reasonable to me, is that there be a trial for each and every one, a real trial with legal representation and the right to confront ones accusers.

I oppose the use of torture categorically. It is wrong, and makes us comparable to such regimes as Saddam Hussein's. I think we need to fight terrorists who want to kill us, but I do not want to give up our freedom, or our rights, or the things that make this a great country to save lives. There are things that are more important than ones life, as any soldier knows.

Imagineer,

As long as terrorists are mollycoddled and their supporters are not held responsible the terrorism will continue unabated.

Not only the actual terrorists but also their supporters should be held fully accountable. Whether people want to admit it or not we are engaged in a war. The fact that the enemy does not wear uniforms does not make them any less wartime enemies.

Terrorist, mainly extremist Moslems are attacking people not only in the U.S. but around the world. It is time for the rest of the world, including non-extremist Moslems to unite and defeat them.

One of the ways we can defeat the terrorists is to disrupt their support system. Arrest those who aid and abet them in any way. If you house terrorists, or hide them from authorities, you lose your house. If you give them money, you lose your bank account. If you aid them in any way you are held fully accountable for your actions. Without a support system it is much more difficult to commit terrorist acts.

As long as terrorists are mollycoddled and their supporters are not held responsible the terrorism will continue unabated.

The Defense department has a wide definition of the word terrorist. Make sure you don't get caught in it's net.

They've probably stopped a greater percentage of terrorism attempts than anybody else in the world. They've also created more terrorists than any other country in the world. (although the US is looking to give 'em a run for the money)

As long as terrorists are mollycoddled and their supporters are not held responsible the terrorism will continue unabated. Mollycoddled. So I assume you're one of the fascist pricks who bought Rush's "club Gitmo" Tshirts then. These people are not even being treated humanly much less being coddled. The Us isn't interested in stopping terrorists. They are interested in creating them and letting them through when it is politically convienent. And why not? All the knee-jerk reactionary half-wits fell right in line after 9-11. Bush was considered dead in teh water till 9-11. The partriot act was crammed down our throats and the government has more control and violence over Americans then ever before.

It is time for the rest of the world, including non-extremist Moslems to unite and defeat them.
Yeah except the US keeps murdering, kidnapping and torturing non-extremist muslims and their relatives. But hey if you think that really helps....

Almost all (if not all) of the prisoners at Gitmo are innocent. The US was offering something like $3,000 a head to Afghan warlords for every "enemy combatant" they could round up. So the warlords just got as many people (most likely human rights avocates and random passers by) as they could and collected the dough. Now these people are rotting in prison with no charges and no evidence against them.

And your sick sadistic ass want to execute them all. Well hey I got good word that you give money to terrorists so I should have the right to knock down you door and kill you for 'Merika, right?

Attorney Tells Why Guantanamo Detainee Attempted Suicide in Front of Him
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/02/1546249

Whether people want to admit it or not we are engaged in a war. Well then if you admit we are engagedd in a war then you are saying that the victims of 9-11 are a ligitmate target. According to what you are saying, if its terrorist vs the US then anyone financially supporting the US is guilty of aiding terrorism and therefore a legit target.
If you give them money, you lose your bank account. If you aid them in any way you are held fully accountable for your actions. maybe you missed this but the US just expanded to patriot act to include the death penalty for financial support even if the giver is unaware of where the money goes. In a press conference this idea was pressed (when the 'punishment' was life imprisonment without trial) "if an elderly woman in Switzerland gives money to what she bleieves is a Afghan orphanage but actually goes towards a terrorist organization she could be held indefinatly?" "well it would be up to the military about whether they believe her or not, but yes"

Frogger your nothing but a knee-jerk reactionary and a dangerous one at that.

Thanks for the warning, Napsterbater. I'll be sure to stay on my toes and not bomb anyone.

Originally posted by Frogger
One of the ways we can defeat the terrorists is to disrupt their support system. Arrest those who aid and abet them in any way. If you house terrorists, or hide them from authorities, you lose your house. If you give them money, you lose your bank account. If you aid them in any way you are held fully accountable for your actions. Without a support system it is much more difficult to commit terrorist acts.

No one's arguing that they shouldn't be arrested. The argument is whether they need to be shipped off to Romania for a little torture session. Arresting them disrupts the support system and makes continued terrorist activities more difficult. Torturing them after arrest doesn't accomplish much.

Thanks for the warning, Napsterbater. I'll be sure to stay on my toes and not bomb anyone.

I've had a group of friends flagged for additional screening at an airline terminal for attending a pagan festival. Trust me, it takes a lot less than that.

Grow weed? Terrorist! Circumvent copyright protection? Terrorist! Member of a leftist publication? Terrorist! The F.B.I. will investigate anybody for any reason, disregarding Constitutional protections, all in the name of terrorism.

Originally posted by Frogger
One of the ways we can defeat the terrorists is to disrupt their support system.

Another way would be for this country to stop exporting terrorism.

9/11 was blowback.

Originally posted by Napsterbater
I've had a group of friends flagged for additional screening at an airline terminal for attending a pagan festival. Trust me, it takes a lot less than that.

How the heck do you know what they were flagged for? When a bunch of us flew through DCA a month ago one of my co-workers got additional screening because - well, just because. Just a boring old white guy. It happens.

A whole group of people flying to the same place from the same place all get additional screening? If it was just one or two of them, I could understand, but the whole group? I believe there were like seven of them, all flying at different times on different flights.

Originally posted by Brooks
I'm more worried about the explosive reaction about another CIA secret being blown. Imagine the reactions of Joe Wilson, Dop, Chris Matthews, Guerilla and Freethinker. Their outrage will be palpable.

We'd better find the source of those leaks. I'm not sure how many agents have already been killed because of this disclosure, but I'm sure Dop already knows.

LMAO, ya, the shit will really hit the fan now that entire compounds ful of agents have been outed. if one agent in africa can bring down an adminstration imagine what will happen to whoever leaked the news about whole secret al qeada prisons full of CIA agents

Originally posted by Frogger
Thanks for the warning, Napsterbater. I'll be sure to stay on my toes and not bomb anyone.

I have one name for you. Richard Jewell. Fortunately their were no secret prisons then, or he would have been whisked away for a little quick torture. My point is that not everyone who is suspected of something is guilty. Torturing innocent people is not only useless as far as accomplishing anything to make the country safer, it is immoral and evil.

Strangely enough, there are alternatives to the use of violence that actually work. For example, the aid we provided in Pakistan after the earthquake had at least some effect on the populace. It is one thing to listen to the Mullah's preaching about the evil Americans. It is another thing entirely when those same Americans are the ones bringing food, and helping the injured. Such acts of human kindness help to offset the propoganda. Unfortunately the budget for helping people is usually one of the first things cut when our government is trying to save money.

Hearts and minds are won over one at a time, and seldom do people like people who are bombing, occupying, and torturing people like them.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
No one's arguing that they shouldn't be arrested. The argument is whether they need to be shipped off to Romania for a little torture session. Arresting them disrupts the support system and makes continued terrorist activities more difficult. Torturing them after arrest doesn't accomplish much.

You are making the assumption that they are being tortured. It is more probable that they are in a secret facility to keep the terrorists from knowing what has happened to them. It is always best to keep the enemy off balance.

You are making the assumption that they are being tortured. It is more probable that they are in a secret facility to keep the terrorists from knowing what has happened to them. It is always best to keep the enemy off balance.

After the Gitmo debacle, I seriously question your grasp of world events.

Oh!

Please tell me about all the rampant torture that took place at Gitmo. Of course, you will have citations for your claims.

Nah. I'd rather mock you than get into that debate right now.

Originally posted by Napsterbater
Nah. I'd rather mock you than get into that debate right now.

That's okay. I understand. You can't come up with anything to back your assertion.

In that case I guess mocking is the next best thing. It does make the time pass, doesn't it.

It does make the time pass, doesn't it.

You bet. I don't have to make you look stupid on every debate. Once I do it a few times, then I don't have to take you seriously at all, and sit back and mock you without worrying that I might be missing something.

You bet. I don't have to make you look stupid on every debate.

So far you haven't done it on any, but keep trying.

Remember the little old ant and the rubber tree plant. High hopes and all that sort of stuff.

So far you haven't done it on any, but keep trying.

If you have to say it, you've already lost.

Cute, Nap. Untrue but cute.

Gotta go eat some breakfast and begin doing something productive. Enjoy the day.

Cute, Nap. Untrue but cute.

Uh-huh. I can sit here and expose your subconscious motivations all day long, and, luckily for me, I have the free time to be able to do so. I hope for your sake you will be able to come up with something relevant and somewhat intelligent to keep me from doing so.

Originally posted by Napsterbater
A whole group of people flying to the same place from the same place all get additional screening? If it was just one or two of them, I could understand, but the whole group? I believe there were like seven of them, all flying at different times on different flights.

How exactly would the government know what event they were going to attend? Besides, whether you get additional screening or not is determined by a computer. If your ticket has a big "S" on it, you get screening. It's not the security people that decide. And the computer decides based on certain characteristics, like whether the ticket was purchased relatively close to the day of the flight, or if the person flying is a young male not accompanied by a female or family member.

Originally posted by Frogger
You are making the assumption that they are being tortured. It is more probable that they are in a secret facility to keep the terrorists from knowing what has happened to them. It is always best to keep the enemy off balance.

Government sources in the news have indicated that's what's going on. Besides, why would we send them to countries, on CIA flights instead of military flights, known for being a little lax in the human rights department if that wasn't what we were up to?

How the heck do you know what they were flagged for? When a bunch of us flew through DCA a month ago one of my co-workers got additional screening because - well, just because. heh. One time I accidentally wore a shirt with grenades on it to fly. I got "randomly" searched 3 times.

All the airport security is BS anyways. You'd think no one has ever heard of plastic kinves or something.

You are making the assumption that they are being tortured. It is more probable that they are in a secret facility to keep the terrorists from knowing what has happened to them. It is always best to keep the enemy off balance. My how the arrogant love to proclaim their ignorence.

Abuse, Torture and Rape Reported at Unlisted U.S.-run Prisons in Iraq
http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_item&itemid=1029

Bush will veto anti-torture law after Senate revolt
The Bush administration pledged yesterday to veto legislation banning the torture of prisoners by US troops after an overwhelming and almost unprecedented revolt by loyalist congressmen.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/07/wus207.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/10/07/ixworld.html

In negotiations led by Cheney, the White House wants the Central Intelligence Agency exempted from the proposed ban.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20051104-07462200-bc-us-torture.xml

If they are not tortureing people then why are Bush and Cheney pushing so hard to stop a ban on torture? And as far as Abu G goes you seem to be forgetting that a FBI memo said it was an executive order multiple times. Also Cheney just made the author of the torture memo his new right hand man. Besides that the CIA was using a privte jet to fly people around the globe to be tortured.

Time magazine named W the "person of the year" heere in America. In Canada the "person of the year" was a canadian man whom the American Government kidnapped on a flight stop over and shipped him to Syria to be tortured.

You seem somewhat ignorant of how the world works. Torture happens evey single day in prisons inside the US. My friend was tortured and crippled by the SFPD for feeding homeless people. (he almost spent life in jail for it too under the 3 strikes law)

OMG get this...
++++++++++++++++++++

Iraq prisoner abuse witnesses 'disappear' in US custody

The star witness in the trial of US troops for prisoner abuse in Iraq and Afghanistan has mysteriously disappeared. Omar al-Farouq would have been the first detainee to testify against an American soldier.

Three other witnesses are said to have "escaped" at the same time, so the only four people ever to succeed in an "escape" from a Guantanamo-bay-style maximum secitity US military prison all happen to be witnesses who wanted to testify against the US military.

http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=1660
+++++++++++++++++++++++

Yeah "escaped"...

How exactly would the government know what event they were going to attend?

You would be surprised how much the government knows, and can find out. This pagan festival has been going on every year for 20 years. It would be a rather simple affair for the government to track people going to it.

Oh yeah and one of the funniest parts of the article (if you can call it funny...)

"The CIA has been hiding and interrogating some of its most important al Qaeda captives at a Soviet-era compound in Eastern Europe, according to U.S. and foreign officials familiar with the arrangement."

Sooooo a question for a the Busheviks...is it OK to call them Gulags now?

------------------------------------------------------------
You are making the assumption that they are being tortured. It is more probable that they are in a secret facility to keep the terrorists from knowing what has happened to them. It is always best to keep the enemy off balance.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My how the arrogant love to proclaim their ignorence.


So, now people who disagree with you are both arrogant and ignorant, Quarter ton. Now that really smacks of arrogance.

Originally posted by Frogger
Imagineer,

As long as terrorists are mollycoddled and their supporters are not held responsible the terrorism will continue unabated.

Not only the actual terrorists but also their supporters should be held fully accountable. Whether people want to admit it or not we are engaged in a war. The fact that the enemy does not wear uniforms does not make them any less wartime enemies.

Terrorist, mainly extremist Moslems are attacking people not only in the U.S. but around the world. It is time for the rest of the world, including non-extremist Moslems to unite and defeat them.

One of the ways we can defeat the terrorists is to disrupt their support system. Arrest those who aid and abet them in any way. If you house terrorists, or hide them from authorities, you lose your house. If you give them money, you lose your bank account. If you aid them in any way you are held fully accountable for your actions. Without a support system it is much more difficult to commit terrorist acts.

Your ignorance of history is so extreme for someone so passionate about this subject that I'm shocked.

Al qaeda ("the base") was created by the CIA to smuggle weapons into Afghanastan to fight the USSR. They used the same terrorist methods back then, including attempting to poison a girl's school. Their actual justification was that the girls were being taught "unIslamic" ways. All the while they were praised as "freedom fighters" in Britain and the USA. They cheered the formation of the mass murdering Taliban. This is completely documented.

Now look at another major Islamist terrorist group, Hamas ("muslim brotherhood"). They were founded by Muslims but largely became a player because Israel funded them to offset the influence and power of the PLO. Once again it's a documented fact.

Saddam Hussein was given weapons and was trained in an officer school in the USA.

And so on. Until imperialism stops meddling in other countries and fing them up, this will continue. You can keep advocating more imperialism to defeat them, but you can't win a victory in a conventional military sense. You kill them, you're recruiting for them.

I wonder what our children will be saying - maybe along the lines of "hunh, maybe it wasn't so clever to replace that secular government in Iraq with a theocracy?". LOL

Taking the American war machine to the terrorists is a way of "owning our mistakes" if we are, in fact, responsible for setting this in motion many decades ago.

Originally posted by es347fan
Taking the American war machine to the terrorists is a way of "owning our mistakes" if we are, in fact, responsible for setting this in motion many decades ago.

And creating more future terrorists. It's kind of a self-perpetuating deal.

There's always appeasement, Deeply Red. Maybe we should dig up Neville Chamberlain's body.

Appeasement has nothing to do with it. We shouldn't be fucking around in other people countries in the first place. It has to do with what should have been done in the first place and righting the wrongs.

By your logic if I go onto someones property and start minig it and dumping waste everywhere I am perfectly justified. Now if the owner approaches me with a gun and tells me to get the hell off his land , I can now call him a terrorist and shoot him in the head. When his family get wind and puts togather a posse (by your logic) I should try to kill all of them and say "lookie at all them terriers I dun killed". When in fact I should get out of the area I never should have been in in the first place and be thankful that the family will just leave it at that.

Originally posted by Frogger
There's always appeasement, Deeply Red. Maybe we should dig up Neville Chamberlain's body.

I think the mistake is assuming that "appeasement" is our only other choice when it comes to dealing with terrorism...war, or appeasement...It's a pity our brightest minds can't come up with any alternatives...

Originally posted by Deepest Red
And creating more future terrorists. It's kind of a self-perpetuating deal.

when you say this you must impy that if we did nothing no future terrorists would be made. since we created the terrorists, if we did hte opposite no terrorists would exist, right?

same as global warming. if we are creating it we should be able to stop it right? we should be able to reverse the earths climate.

Originally posted by Deepest Red
Your ignorance of history is so extreme for someone so passionate about this subject that I'm shocked.

Al qaeda ("the base") was created by the CIA to smuggle weapons into Afghanastan to fight the USSR. They used the same terrorist methods back then, including attempting to poison a girl's school. Their actual justification was that the girls were being taught "unIslamic" ways.

your ignorance is just as extreme if you think they attacked a girls school for teaching them unislamic ways. they attacked it because girls should not be in school, period.

So, now people who disagree with you are both arrogant and ignorant, Quarter ton. Now that really smacks of arrogance. No not the people whodisagree with me. The people who disagree ith the reality that is right in front of their nose.

Please do tell us again how the government is molly coddling terrorist and would nevere ever torture them...

Your an asshole defending people engaged in human right violations. You deserve nothing better than what you advocate for others. Lets hope someone doesn't decide to "mollycuddle" you...

Originally posted by Travh20
when you say this you must impy that if we did nothing no future terrorists would be made. since we created the terrorists, if we did hte opposite no terrorists would exist, right?

same as global warming. if we are creating it we should be able to stop it right? we should be able to reverse the earths climate.

We reverse the earth's climate by reducing consumption of oil.

We reduce terrorism by reducing the inerference of imperialism in other countries, which tends to create drug trafficing and terrorism like no other force in history. Both are issues of constraint, so I welcome your comparison.

Originally posted by Travh20
your ignorance is just as extreme if you think they attacked a girls school for teaching them unislamic ways. they attacked it because girls should not be in school, period.

wtf?

Don't bother Red. Travh is a complete moron who doesn't even know what hes saying most of the time. Trust me he's not worth the time or effort.

LOL, thanks for the advice.

Don't bother Red. Travh is a complete moron who doesn't even know what hes saying most of the time. Trust me he's not worth the time or effort.

Now, that's not a very nice thing to say, Quarter Ton. You seem to not know what you are saying most of the time and people respond to you. You seem to think that everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. Remember, when you point a finger at someone else, three more are pointing back at you.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Don't bother Red. Travh is a complete moron who doesn't even know what hes saying most of the time. Trust me he's not worth the time or effort.

Glass houses

he doesnt like me because 5 seconds of common sense on my part blows away hours of his research on those idiotic web sites wher he gets the truth about whats "really" going on.

and go read a book about the taliban in afghanistan, tell me how many girls schools there were or how many girls there were in school. go ahead genius, we will wait with anxious breath for your report

your ignorance is just as extreme if you think they attacked a girls school for teaching them unislamic ways. they attacked it because girls should not be in school, period. Travh - You're too goddamn stupid to see that, according to the taliban, teaching girls was considered unislamic itself. You're attempt to rephrase what Red said and turn it into an argument is exactly why you are a complete waste of time. BTW this sounds like your personal views "they attacked it because girls should not be in school, period" are they?

Frog and Evak - you haven't been posting here nearly as long. I used to be patient with Trav. He has demostrated a complete lack of common sense and understanding. I announced the gloves were off with him long ago. Darth is about to get the same treatment for his unabashed racism and disconnect from reality.

So Trav read any good cover sheets latlely?

You seem to think that everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. Sorry. People condoning torture, terrorism and murder really piss me off.

I have been a bit vitriolic lately.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Travh - You're too goddamn stupid to see that, according to the taliban, teaching girls was considered unislamic itself. You're attempt to rephrase what Red said and turn it into an argument is exactly why you are a complete waste of time. BTW this sounds like your personal views "they attacked it because girls should not be in school, period" are they?

no shit sherlock, WTF do you think I said? damn your dense.

Let me say it for your dumb ass again: they dont believe in girls going to school. Clearly, they are not concerned that a school is teaching girls unislamic ways if they dont even believe in girls gong to school in the first place you idiot!

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Frog and Evak - you haven't been posting here nearly as long. I used to be patient with Trav. He has demostrated a complete lack of common sense and understanding. I announced the gloves were off with him long ago. Darth is about to get the same treatment for his unabashed racism and disconnect from reality.

please, spare us the tough guy talk. you hold no more clout on this board then anyone else, if anything you hold less, so STFU with your "I took the gloves off" crap. I am sure Darth is wetting his pants right now thinking about you "taking the gloves off" with him :rolleyes:

Posted by 500lbguerilla
No not the people whodisagree with me. The people who disagree ith the reality that is right in front of their nose.

So now those who disagree with you are also disagreeing with the reality that is right in front of their noses.
There are lots of views tossed around in chat halls every day. Some of them I agree with, some I disagree with, some I find repugnant and some laughable. In no case do I ever feel that I have all the answers and that anyone who disagrees with me disagrees with the reality that is right in front of their noses.

Frogger - Please do tell us all again how terrorists are mollycuddled and never tortured. We're waiting...

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Darth is about to get the same treatment for his unabashed racism and disconnect from reality.

Examples?

This kind of accusation has rendered the word racism to have become meaningless.

Go to the "this is terrorism" thread to see his unabashed racism.

His constant assertion that WMD are in Iraq is part of his disconnect. If the US government and Bush (parties with the biggest stake in finding WMD's) have given up then why is it Darth persists? Even after all the evidence of intelligence manipulation and outright lies have been cited.