Verifiable proof that Armageddon has begun...

NOTE:Though this article references and relies on the referenced book, it's purpose is to deliver long awaited wisdom, not to make money from book sales. The ebook is a free download and the paperback is sold at cost, with 0% profit. The nature and the quantity of knowledge presented requires a fully researched book.

Hurricanes Katrina (#11) and Rita (#17) have provided stunning validation of my research and interpretations of pivotal ancient wisdom, symbologies, key prophecies, and associated religious claims. Their storm numbers and timing perfectly synchronized with primary data and assertions in my book, thereby demonstrating the true nature of this universe and the existence of our Creator.

Intro:

This is a long article that relies on a long book for its premise and validation, but I promise to reward your patience with the long-awaited and verifiable wisdom of the ages. This is a follow-up to related discussions I participated in at http://www.allforums.net/ and http://www.infidelguy.com/ in recent months under the username “Seven Star Hand” regarding my book, Revelations from the Apocalypse - Volume One: Here is Wisdom.

I fully understand that everyone has been bedeviled by similar claims throughout history. Consequently, I have been forced to rely on dramatic and devastating proof of the sort that can’t be ignored or easily dismissed. The numbers and timing of hurricanes Katrina (11) and Rita (17) directly validate key data and pivotal assertions throughout my book and my posts on those two forums. This data was purposely presented publicly before Katrina, Rita and other recent events occurred to prove they perfectly synchronize with key prophecies and Hebrew calendar cycles, thereby validating my interpretations of ancient wisdom symbology, string theory, and more.

Take a moment to visit my web site if you haven’t already done so. Read the summary and preface to the book and/or download a free copy at: http://www.geocities.com/sevenstarhand/

Consequently, I have demonstrated various things about the nature of this reality that dramatically disprove and/or clarify key assumptions of religion, mysticism, and science alike, while establishing the true meaning and purpose of long misinterpreted ancient wisdom and the symbolism used to model and encode it. Accordingly, I have proven that the symbolism evidenced in the canons of all three faiths of Abraham and other ancient sources is a very ancient and advanced philosophical technology that verifiably models foundational aspects of our existence in this universe. This is the mostly misunderstood body of ancient wisdom long referred to as the Philosophers’ Stone. It uses a large and ingeniously organized collection of physical universe images and concepts as data rich components (symbols) that are based on verifiable rules. It models and encodes an amazing amount of foundational wisdom about life, spirituality and the 11 dimensions of this universe, now verified by string theory. It is also the advanced encryption method used to encode (seal) Hebrew prophecies and wisdom texts.

Because these two storms arrived shortly after my August 11, 2005 (50th) birthday (read the Dead Sea Scroll 11Q13 in Appendix G, which also discusses Melchizedek and the prophesied Jubilee) and directly match other pivotal 11 and 17 data and events described in the first chapter of my book, I have delivered verifiable proof that this reality is based on thought, knowledge and wisdom. Activity, patterns, and results perceived in space-time are first framed and defined by inspirations, thoughts, and knowledge and influenced by the cause-and-effect system most commonly referred to as karma. Consequently, events and outcomes in the so-called physical universe are not random or wholly mechanistic and are verifiably influenced in ways that atheists, scientists, and members of the Faiths of Abraham have all scoffed at. Though mysticism is mostly a product of misinterpreted ancient wisdom symbology, many of its topics flow from ancient wisdom. Though containing allusions to the truth, its details and interpretations are wrong on many key points.

This demonstration and my book clarify the direct relationship and synchronization of key aspects of string theory with pivotal ancient wisdom recorded many millennia ago. They also clarify the meaning of pivotal observations of string theory, and show that assumptions of unlimited parallel universes are misinterpretations of data. The math of string theory instead evidences a user-driven universal system of infinite potential. Similar to a feature-rich interactive computer game, its users’ (Creator and souls) choices and interactions determine which of the unlimited potential outcomes will ever actually occur. Consequently, it’s the thoughts and input of the intelligent participants (including our Creator) that generate realities using the universe’s features and functionality. This means the universe will never manifest every combination of potential outcomes. Just as a computer system doesn’t manifest all of its potential displays and features, this universe requires user input to activate and direct its functionality.

A primary problem with unlimited parallel universes is that it would require each universe to create copies of the souls in other universes for every potential unlimited outcome that arises. This would mean that each universe creates unlimited other universes as well as unlimited copies of souls, though science has been unable to show how life arises or what it truly is. By proving that reincarnation is the truth, I have accordingly verified the existence of souls and that consciousness and awareness are not the byproduct of bodies or other physical processes, but are superior to and independent of them. Accordingly, our universe is the product of intelligence, not its source, and universes likewise do not create other universes as some have conjectured.

As described below and in my book, ancient wisdom models foundational aspects of this universe, and overlaps and clarifies string theory and other scientific observations. Accordingly, this is an 11-dimension, holographic universe that operates very closely to the theories and observations in Wholeness and the Implicate Order by David Bohm and The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot. Neither book is perfectly accurate, but the general concepts are correct. Ancient wisdom models this same information in various ways, thereby providing a path to help clarify previously untested string theory assumptions, among others. I discuss this in more detail later in this article and in my book. As a quick primer, read the article River of Truth, by Will Keepin, at the following URL:

http://www.vision.net.au/~apaterson/science/david_bohm.htm

As you can see on the referenced discussions, I encountered significant opposition and derision on both forums. The same was true of my contacts with various priests, preachers, rabbis, religious followers, and others. Consequently, one of my purposes for participating in discussions on forums that I knew would lead to strong opposition was to use the arrogance of certain groups to decisively prove several points. I used these two forums as part of a planned demonstration designed to provide a time-stamped public record that would serve as stunning evidence supporting the assertions and conclusions in my book.

I purposely baited and set up the participants in these two forums in various ways to draw out their worst behavior and arrogance. Thereby, in the face of strong opposition from multiple quarters, I have now proven my assertions about the nature of this universe, specific ancient wisdom, and certain prophecies, beyond disproof.

These ancient prophecies and wisdom texts used advanced symbology to model fundamental wisdom, including future events and situations. A primary facet of ancient wisdom is numeric symbology. Later misinterpretations of this aspect of ancient wisdom resulted in numerology, which, though embodying allusions to certain wisdom, is mostly error prone and false doctrine. My decryption, documentation, and interpretation of ancient symbology, numeric symbolism, and key texts based on them, are now decisively validated.

Please read the post here titled: “Hello, Class” for some background http://www.allforums.net/showthread.php?threadid=12183
Pay close attention to its date (August 4th, 2005), which is weeks before hurricane Katrina (August 29); also that Katrina was storm #11 and the sum of the digits of its date of landfall, 2+9, equals 11. Furthermore, the referenced post is a follow-up to several weeks of earlier posts and 3-4 years of research and writing before that.

Katrina and Rita Expose False Assumptions

Because of their numbers and other key details associated with hurricanes Katrina (#11) and Rita (#17), I have decisively proven that both religious adherents and atheists are arguing from ignorance about the true nature of this reality and about the Creator of this universe. As many have guessed throughout time, the truth is actually somewhere between these two extremes. I have delivered proof that a Creator exists; that science, truth, and wisdom are on the correct path together; and that religion is purposeful deception, strong delusion, and false doctrine about the Creator, this universe, ancient wisdom, and prophecy. I have also decisively demonstrated that belief in some concept, whether it’s religion or one’s opinions about the true meaning of scientific data, is not a reliable guarantor of the truth.

Atheists vociferously deny that the obvious intelligence and elegance at all levels of this universe is evidence of purposeful planning and intention. Likewise, most refuse or are unable to discern the difference between evidence of the Creator and the many religions that falsely claim to represent some god. Conversely, religious leaders and adherents assert that faith, based on ancient texts they neither truly understand nor can prove the source of, is more valid than truth, wisdom, and science. Consequently, religious assertions about the Creator, morality, and the true source and meaning of their canons are error-prone false doctrine and false prophecy.

Because of stubbornness bordering on psychosis, both camps have remained blind to pivotal truths and wisdom, and purposely deaf to anything counter to their opinions. When you close your eyes and ears to knowledge because it doesn’t agree with your current mindset, the guaranteed end result is always some level of ignorance. When you refuse to consider all points of view about the nature of this universe, you are guaranteed to miss something important. This is self-evident!

This article, my book, and associated information are directly counter to many people’s most cherished beliefs (opinions), doctrines, and perceptions about the nature of this universe and pivotal ancient wisdom. Consequently, I have encountered widespread and often hostile opposition to my messages, both recently and throughout history. Both religious adherents and opponents have doggedly refused to consider they might be wrong about certain aspects of their favorite opinions. Those who profit from the continued ignorance of humanity oppose my messages because of greed, arrogance, and their fear of long-promised truth and justice. Because of this situation, I have voluntarily participated in a multiple-lifetime demonstration designed to decisively prove many things to humanity, thereby delivering the wisdom necessary to end long-term folly and ignorance. These recent hurricanes and other events serve as irrefutable proof that my assertions and conclusions are accurate and verifiable.

They also prove that humanity is now teetering on the brink of long-prophesied and self-caused destruction because of great greed, arrogance, and widespread ignorance about pivotal aspects of this universe. Humanity has permitted greedy and arrogant leaders in the realms of money, religion, and politics to coerce, deceive and delude enough people over the centuries to forge a worldwide civilization that is blatantly built upon widespread greed, deception, and injustice, hence great evil. The time has finally come to pay the piper for this abominable situation. The long-prophesied time symbolized as Armageddon, Judgment Day (year), End of Days, and referred to as the “year of Melchizedek’s favor,” has now begun. These two hurricanes and my book provide overwhelming proof of this fact. Furthermore, these events and others are purposeful messages and direct warnings of things to come over the upcoming months, if dramatic changes are not undertaken immediately. (Note: The true translation for Armageddon is the valley of great decision, which further symbolizes a low place in time and human circumstances that leads to realizations and humbling decisions, hence the time of great judgment).

Among the many proofs and revelations documented, I have decisively verified the validity and accuracy of sealed (symbolically encoded) prophecies and demonstrated their functionality by the details in my book and within these online discussions, both of which contain key data associated with these two hurricanes long before they happened. In short, I purposely interspersed those discussions with clues about upcoming events and situations as irrefutable proof of my ability to provide detailed yet obscured prophecies, thereby delivering a real-time demonstration and proof of concept of specific ancient wisdom and the true meaning of certain prophecies. Among the topics written about and discussed prior to the arrival of Katrina and Rita were hurricanes, ancient symbology, and the associated symbolism and pivotal importance of the numbers 11 and 17, among others.

If you choose to read (or reread) these online discussions, pay very close attention to the dates of my posts on these forums, which span the months immediately preceding these events. You will also see the kinds of derision and counter arguments I encountered there and elsewhere, which are all now decisively proven completely and utterly wrong. You can now read these posts and my book with full 20:20 hindsight, and compare them to key details about these two hurricanes, their various aftereffects, societal ramifications, timing, and storm numbers. Also notice that the last draft (#11) of the E-Book, which has also been online as a free download for months, was posted two days before Katrina made landfall in the gulf. The first edition of the paperback was posted on Lulu.com days before Rita. These time-stamped online discussions and the details throughout my book, which were written and recorded prior to hurricanes Katrina (11) and Rita (17), are directly and inextricably related to those pivotal events and to last year’s Florida hurricanes. This is decisively proven by the timing, location, and numbers of these two obviously related storms, which directly match the primary numeric symbols described in the first chapter of my book and in these online discussions. Also, in the first chapter of the book I detail how last year’s four Florida hurricanes, which were verifiable warnings of things to come, were spaced at precisely11 and 22 days apart over a very specific 55-day period.

A prime example of the purposeful and synchronized symbolism of these events is seen in the opening paragraphs from my book excerpted below. Notice that the dates mentioned (August 11 and 17) directly match the numbers of hurricanes Katrina and Rita, and the time spans of the four Florida hurricanes match my birth year (‘55), and they were spaced 11 or a multiple-of-11 (22) days apart, directly matching my birthday and much other ancient prophecy and symbolism. Notice that my place of birth, Victoria Texas, is on the Gulf Coast. Following are the excerpted paragraphs:

The balance of this article is at:
http://www.geocities.com/sevenstarhand/hurricanes.html

2+2 = 5

You guys will stop at nothing in your pitiful attempts to "prove" your superstitions.

Oy vey, here we go again...

I have decisively proven that both religious adherents and atheists are arguing from ignorance about the true nature of this reality
So it was the agnostics who were right all along. :D

My car died, so I couldn't help the virgin down the street get her groceries, this of course made her strave to death. The sad part is that she was going to give birth to the next comming of Jesus.

The good news is that without Jesus comming we won't have to worry about the end of humanity. So now we can all wait for the next comming. :D :D

Well, thank the gods for that mad dog!

Originally posted by mad dog
My car died, so I couldn't help the virgin down the street get her groceries, this of course made her strave to death. The sad part is that she was going to give birth to the next comming of Jesus.

The good news is that without Jesus comming we won't have to worry about the end of humanity. So now we can all wait for the next comming. :D :D

God's a sly bastard, he cant be bothered to be a Dad at the moment so he interjects some "Divine Intervention" on you MadDog

Originally posted by mad dog
My car died, so I couldn't help the virgin down the street get her groceries, this of course made her strave to death. The sad part is that she was going to give birth to the next comming of Jesus.

The good news is that without Jesus comming we won't have to worry about the end of humanity. So now we can all wait for the next comming. :D :D
Jesus is coming! Luckily, he's wearing a condom.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Jesus is coming! Luckily, he's wearing a condom.

Prepare yourself for many rolling eyes emoticons from Jere.

A rolling eye emoticon would not even do that justice - that was disgusting.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
A rolling eye emoticon would not even do that justice - that was disgusting.
Wow, you're so easy...

LMAO :D

I think Jesus is going to come back as a black pygmy transexual homosexual, and he is going to spread his word on the Jerry Springer show.

Atheists vociferously deny that the obvious intelligence and elegance at all levels of this universe is evidence of purposeful planning and intention.
Aren't they annoying? They also deny the earth is flat and the sun is a little hot disk that moves across the dome of the sky, despite the fact that it clearly looks that way.

Originally posted by mad dog
LMAO :D

I think Jesus is going to come back as a black pygmy transexual homosexual, and he is going to spread his word on the Jerry Springer show.

There is about as much chance of that happening as there is you ever saying anything funny.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
There is about as much chance of that happening as there is you ever saying anything funny.

Its a joke fucknuts so lighten up,

Originally posted by mad dog
My car died, so I couldn't help the virgin down the street get her groceries, this of course made her strave to death. The sad part is that she was going to give birth to the next comming of Jesus.

The good news is that without Jesus comming we won't have to worry about the end of humanity. So now we can all wait for the next comming. :D :D
========================================

Mad dog, now you are going to have to pay the preacher 15% of you income to buy your way into heaven.
Or is it 92 hail Marys, oh, what the heck I can't remember.
Never mind.
Lake of fire, lake of fire, lake of fire.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Its a joke fucknuts so lighten up, Isnt it odd that (deleted) like you and borg make fun of God, hoping to get just the reaction you got, then tell Jere to "lighten up" or "you're so easy".

Originally posted by HaVoK
Isnt it odd that (deleted) like you and borg make fun of God, hoping to get just the reaction you got, then tell Jere to "lighten up" or "you're so easy".

You forgot me, I make fun of sky fairies and superstitions too. And I not only AM one, I HAVE one. BWAHAHAHAH

Some things are just so rediculous they beg to be made fun of.

Originally posted by Echo2
You forgot me, I make fun of sky fairies and superstitions too. And I not only AM one, I HAVE one. BWAHAHAHAH

Some things are just so rediculous they beg to be made fun of. If thats what you relate to, then by all means consider yourself one.


"some things are just so rediculous"- You mean like your spelling and grammar? Or the fact that you believe in nothings consider yourself of a liberal mindset (i.e. live and let live), yet take every opportunity to bash christians for their beliefs. Selective compassion/understanding is what that is. It makes you hypocrites.

You don't understand because you connsider being called that an insult. The P, B, CS and C words are not insults to strong women. We gotta be doing something right if we get you riled up enough to attempt the verbal insult road.

Originally posted by Echo2
You don't understand because you connsider being called that an insult. The P, B, CS and C words are not insults to strong women. We gotta be doing something right if we get you riled up enough to attempt the verbal insult road. "We" didnt do anything, Echo. You chose to call yourself a (deleted) and insert yourself into the thread.


As far as that last comment goes, are you admitting that the only reason you believe in nothings make deragatory remarks about God is to rile up the christians? I know thats what it is about, but most of you hide behind the old "lighten up" or "you're so easy" cop outs. Its kinda like slapping someone in the face and then telling them they overreact when they tell you it hurt and dont do that again.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Isnt it odd that (deleted) like you and borg make fun of God, hoping to get just the reaction you got, then tell Jere to "lighten up" or "you're so easy". If it's any consolation borg, loki and others will suffer terrifying endless horrors in the afterlife should the Christians be right.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Isnt it odd that (deleted) like you and borg make fun of God, hoping to get just the reaction you got, then tell Jere to "lighten up" or "you're so easy".

HaVok, I understand how you feel, but I doubt anyone was looking to be called a vagina.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Isnt it odd that (deleted) like you and borg make fun of God, hoping to get just the reaction you got, then tell Jere to "lighten up" or "you're so easy".
Well, in fairness, he is. It's incredibly predictable. To his credit, he never gets angry, but I still think that ignoring the joke is the better part of valor, rather than pointlessly complaining about blasphemy and such.

Originally posted by Blob
If it's any consolation borg, loki and others will suffer terrifying endless horrors in the afterlife should the Christians be right. Why would that be a consolation to christians? If there is an afterlife, I hope we all will be there enjoying it.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
HaVok, I understand how you feel, but I doubt anyone was looking to be called a vagina. I agree. I also doubt anyone who believes in God was looking for those two (deleted) to insult our God, then tell us we're "easy" or we "need to lighten up".

I bet that if I were to start making derogatory remarks about lesbians or minorities, the gay crusader would not like it, and have something to say about it.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Well, in fairness, he is. It's incredibly predictable. To his credit, he never gets angry, but I still think that ignoring the joke is the better part of valor, rather than pointlessly complaining about blasphemy and such. If you want to tell a joke, take it to the humor forum. Thats not what that was about though. We both know it. So play it off. You can, its not like this is the real world. Just anonymous posters on the internet.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Why would that be a consolation to christians? If there is an afterlife, I hope we all will be there enjoying it. They often seem irritated by the existence of atheists, especially those that have the audicity to have a sense of humour regarding the "big questions". I just don't see why it bothers them if they truly believe horrors await us that would make a North Korean torture chamber look like a picnic.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Isnt it odd that (deleted) like you and borg make fun of God, hoping to get just the reaction you got, then tell Jere to "lighten up" or "you're so easy".

I didnt have Jere in my mind when I wrote that strangely enough.

Blob's right, we all be taking pinapples up our asses if it turns out your right but since there is no way of knowing Ill be making fun of the big ole sky fairy for time to come.

Originally posted by HaVoK
If you want to tell a joke, take it to the humor forum. Thats not what that was about though. We both know it. So play it off. You can, its not like this is the real world. Just anonymous posters on the internet.

Why the hell does it bother you so much. Its like your trying to defend God who lets face it, is the only thing in universe who truly doesnt need protecting if we are to believe his/her/its power

God clearly doesnt care enough about what we say to do anything so why do you?

I don'y understand the God-bashing on this board.

I realize that some christians can be rude, overbearing know-it-alls.
but the majority of them--at least the ones I know--are decent, kindly people who bother no one.
I don't understand why these folks are ridiculed, or why their beliefs are ridiculed.
Tho I don't follow or know much about other faiths, I try to respect that faith. It is just good manners and it's hurtful to them to not do so.
My two cents on that.

Originally posted by HaVoK
I bet that if I were to start making derogatory remarks about lesbians or minorities, the gay crusader would not like it, and have something to say about it.
Most definitely. Now, show me where I made derogatory remarks about Christians. Oh, wait...I didn't!

Originally posted by HaVoK
I bet that if I were to start making derogatory remarks about lesbians or minorities, the gay crusader would not like it, and have something to say about it.

I'm not sure who the "gay crusader" is, but I have no problem with the fact that you wish to say something, it's the way you chose to express yourself that I found distasteful. There are only a few words that I think never should be used, and that's one of them.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Most definitely. Now, show me where I made derogatory remarks about Christians. Oh, wait...I didn't! You're too smart to play this damn dumb. As a christian i would much rather you make fun of me than God. But once again, you know this. You have gotten the responses you were looking for, and now you want to feign ignorance. I wonder if anyone else is buying your half ass song and dance.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Why the hell does it bother you so much. Its like your trying to defend God who lets face it, is the only thing in universe who truly doesnt need protecting if we are to believe his/her/its power

God clearly doesnt care enough about what we say to do anything so why do you? I usually dont get into this too much in these forums because it is the internet. We all know the interenet allows people to do things they would have too much intelligence to do in the real world.


Im not defending God, when it comes down to it. Im defending my beliefs, however right or wrong they are. There are a lot of thigs that should be considered wrong to do on this forum, such as blatant racial remarks, sexuality remarks. As someone who believes in God, I put Him higher than all the aforementioned.

I dont blame you Loki, as you really have no input on who does what on these forums. I blame moderation. I guarantee if I were to start making racial/homo remarks they would be deleted and i would get a reprimand or worse. But since they only want atheists as moderators (dont give me jere for that lame ass individual forum he moderates), I think it gives them a tickle when people like you make the comments they wont make. (other than the gay crusader, who will act innocent after)

Originally posted by HaVoK
I usually dont get into this too much in these forums because it is the internet. We all know the interenet allows people to do things they would have too much intelligence to do in the real world.


Im not defending God, when it comes down to it. Im defending my beliefs, however right or wrong they are. There are a lot of thigs that should be considered wrong to do on this forum, such as blatant racial remarks, sexuality remarks. As someone who believes in God, I put Him higher than all the aforementioned.

I dont blame you Loki, as you really no input on who does what on these forums. I blame moderation. I guarantee if I were to start making racial/homo remarks they would be deleted and i would get a reprimand or worse.I mean, give me a break, the gay crusader talks about Jesus cumming and wearing a condom, and I get reprimanded over a woman's body part.


Since they only want atheists as moderators (dont give me jere for that lame ass individual forum he moderates), I think it gives them a tickle when people like you make the comments they wont make. (other than the gay crusader, who will act innocent after)


Also, this IS the religion forum where I believed it was for intelligent discussion about reigions in general. Hardly the place to be making crude jokes since you know there are going to be members of all religions checking it out. Like I said before, there was intent behind the crude joke. So I guess it worked.

Originally posted by HaVoK
I

I dont blame you Loki, as you really have no input on who does what on these forums. I blame moderation. I guarantee if I were to start making racial/homo remarks they would be deleted and i would get a reprimand or worse.

Ive had PM's before telling me to stop being so out of order, (this was around the time of StopandThink). So they wont let anything go.

I guess its because I dont find anything on this forum personally offensive, white racial jokes I find funny, jokes about athiests I find funny. Hell, how many times have I been told im going to hell for my sins? All of that makes me chuckle just because im so numb to it.

Id be interested Havok in finding out what you feel and why you personally find jokes about God in poor taste. Perhaps If i learn the reasons behind your upset, I can better understand what harm my "ignorance" causes.

I don'y understand the God-bashing on this board.

After all the shit that atheists get put through because of their beliefs (or lack thereof) I think it is understandable that they would want to give a little back.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Jesus is coming! Luckily, he's wearing a condom.

Coming from the man who censored Trav for making a joke at Echo2 and the Red Cross because it was "stupid and pointless" or something of that manner from your view, when in reality it was just a joke he made...just like what you did there, this is very surprising.

If someone began using the n-word or some other derogatory word or hate speech against a group, belief, place, or thing...there would be backlash, and a need for such text to be edited. Just because you are an admin of the site, that should not give you the ability to make offensive remarks while banning people like Spartak for making offensive remarks as well. To those with faith, their faith is the most important aspect of there life, so mentioning Jesus and a condom in a sentence together like that is FAR more crude and insensitive than calling an African-American the fierce n-word.

I understand the humor behind the situation, and some may have laughed while others, like Jere, may have been aghast at it. No problem to me at all, just a simple joke on an internet forum. But everyone needs to stop and think about what they are going to post if there are going to be rules like that.
Admins and Mods moderate the pages, and in doing so what you post needs to be as appropriate as you are making the site, why should a free pass be warranted because you have an elevated status to manage the site?

Originally posted by Vilepagan
There are only a few words that I think never should be used, and that's one of them.

Yet Borg's statement, which greatly unsettled HaVok and Jere, stands as is. There definitely are words that need never be used, but a lewd comment involving someone's lord, savior, and life's inspiration is also something that needs to be put into that category. If this was a debate where we were discussing beliefs and doctrine, i see nothing wrong with someone professing or not professing belief in a faith and arguing to that end, but to "pop in a joke" that offends someone(or several people), and you choose to not edit it while editing a swear word, is not the most considerate path to take. The remark did not phase me, but i do find it perplexing at the behavior going on here.

Originally posted by Evakian
To those with faith, their faith is the most important aspect of there life, so mentioning Jesus and a condom in a sentence together like that is FAR more crude and insensitive than calling an African-American the fierce n-word.
People in the Gold Member thread made jokes about my girlfriend, a person whom I consider rather important to me. I laughed at them. I did not get upset about them.
Yet Borg's statement, which greatly unsettled HaVok and Jere, stands as is. There definitely are words that need never be used, but a lewd comment involving someone's lord, savior, and life's inspiration is also something that needs to be put into that category.
The jokes about my girlfriend were lewd as well, as I recall. I had no problem with them.

By the way, everyone here is a big boy or girl. They can handle words like "condom" and, yes, even "cunt." Personally, I wish Vile wouldn't delete such words, unless the whole point of the post is to use as many impolite words as humanly possible, or a good debate has just degenerated to insults. Havok...your yelling and screaming about my post is very reminiscent of that group which you hate so very much...the PC police liberals. I'm a bit surprised that you, of all people, would get upset over something like this, but hey...if you want to be a hypocrite, so be it. Guess it's okay to bash liberals and gays, but not Christians, in your world. And Evakian...funny you bring up the Trav/Echo/Red Cross thing...the Echo/Trav feud was heading on to greater and greater heights at that point, and it was getting tiresome. Trav was following her around in order to yell and scream about anything she posted. She could have posted "Ronald Reagan is awesome" and I bet, at that point, he would have screamed about how much Reagan sucked. So, the Red Cross thing was an effort to get a message to Trav, i.e. "Stop." Maybe not the best way I could have done it, but I stand by my decision.

To everyone else, I have a shampoo recommendation for you:
http://maddox.xmission.com/crybaby.gif

Originally posted by Borghunter
People in the Gold Member thread made jokes about my girlfriend

This is not a thread in the Gold Forum, just to make a point.

a person whom I consider rather important to me.

That is all well and good, but is she the most important facet of your entire life? Do you attend a shrine to her on a weekly basis and pray to her on a daily basis? Do things in her name and follow her philosophies? I just mean to point out that the elevated importance of someone's deity to them is the far greatest thing in their life, and a girlfriend may not be and most likely is not such a figure.

The jokes about my girlfriend were lewd as well, as I recall. I had no problem with them.

Good, you handled it in a well-humored and mature manner. And she may be very close and important to you, but again i point out a difference between someone's deity and someone's earthly mate. And that not all people handle remarks like that in the same way you do.

By the way, everyone here is a big boy or girl. They can handle words like "condom" and, yes, even "cunt."

Does that mean we should use such terms? Nope

So, the Red Cross thing was an effort to get a message to Trav, i.e. "Stop."

Then just send him a message and say it outright, he might not have gotten the picture.

Guess it's okay to bash liberals and gays, but not Christians, in your world.

And is it vice versa in yours? People in glass houses should not throw stones. I do not mean to come off as confrontational or upset towards you Borg, I am just rattled by those few moderating choices.

To everyone else, I have a shampoo recommendation for you:

:D hehe

Good, you handled it in a well-humored and mature manner. And she may be very close and important to you, but again i point out a difference between someone's deity and someone's earthly mate. And that not all people handle remarks like that in the same way you do.

There's not as much of a difference between the two as you might think, Evak.

For many people, I would wager that the emotions are very similar.

I'm going to have to side with Borg here and tell those too uptight to take a joke to reevaluate their choice of hair care products.

There's not as much of a difference between the two as you might think, Evak.

For many people, I would wager that the emotions are very similar.

Are they the most important facet of your entire life so much that they guide everything you do and decide on the most personal of levels and you have the deepest of clandestine relationships with this being? Do you attend a shrine to them on a weekly basis and pray to them (several times) on a daily basis? Do things in their name and follow their philosophies to your utmost end?
I understand they would be quite important to people, but to say the emotions felt are different is most questionable. People may slay their spouse immediately to just win the slightest of favor with their deity if there were such a situation requiring that.

I'm going to have to side with Borg here and tell those too uptight to take a joke to reevaluate their choice of hair care products.

After all the shit that atheists get put through because of their beliefs (or lack thereof) I think it is understandable that they would want to give a little back.

And it is also understandable that people of faith do not want to sit idly by while someone who does not share their belief attack their faith in a crude or offensive way. Just as the atheist does not like to be scorned, so too does the theist dislike such treatment.
--------------------------------------------
Compassion and understanding do not stop when agreements in personal philosophy do.

Just as the atheist does not like to be scorned, so too does the theist dislike such treatment.

So what? People should not have to examine their words for things that theists might find repugnant. Let them deal.

Honestly Evakian, I thought you had more respect for free speech.

I think what Evak is saying here is that regardless of how I, Borg or you felt about the words. These people made clear that it upset them greatly, and if we respect these people in any way we would adhere to their requests and not make such jokes in the Religion forum.

There is a difference between making fun little jokes about Christianity and attacking their belief systems. I will listen to complaints about the latter, and make fun of the crybaby whining about the first.

If you are trying to communicate humor, you have the moral high ground over one communicating hatred. I am sorry, but if a Christian cannot take fun jabs at their belief system, then they don't deserve the respect you speak of.

There is any difference to those people. There may be for you but for them its all the same, and I believe they probably feel that the only place in AllForums where they should express ther beliefs is compromised because they can be attacked for it.

But to be honest Napster, I dont think they really want your respect.

the only place in AllForums where they should express ther beliefs is compromised because they can be attacked for it.

In a Religion and Philosophy debate forum? Get real! If they cannot understand the difference than I am willing to explain it for them, but I don't think an atheist should be muzzled when it comes to fun little demonstrations of one's lack of faith, whereas a Christian can sit there and talk ever so highly about all the great things they get from their faith. There is a huge double-standard there, and I for one am not going to perpetuate it. There is nothing better about Christianity that they should be awarded powers of speech that are denied to me.

And I've never met a Christian that didn't want respect.

What's the difference between Jesus and a picture of Jesus?

You only need one nail to put the picture up.

Originally posted by Napsterbater
-- general napster bullshit ---.

To be honest Im happy to admit that what I say here often offends the Christians, and that I could have worded it better and took a more respectful stance whilst still getting across my point. I dont because I personally dislike the faith and that comes across in my posts.

You seem to be ignorant of everyones feelings almost flawlessly so Its pointless even trying to explain it to you. You have said a number of times no one can teach you anything so I shant bother trying.

Blob lol, nice.

Originally posted by Napsterbater
Honestly Evakian, I thought you had more respect for free speech.

I have the utmost respect and observance of free speech. Everyone should have the right and ability to do so, and I am disheartened by that comment, as it insults me when I am ever upstanding about free speech. I am just making a complaint that Jere and HaVok got upset at that comment Borg made, and yet that was not taken action against. But Vilepagan censored some profanity that shook him, and left the comment that was complained about untouched. This is not about free speech, it is about the rules and moderation of these forums.

But if a man says "F*** Ni****s!!!" he would get scorned, when someone makes a crude comment about a religious figurehead who is the center of life for a third of the world...and people get upset, the message is still left untouched.

Share your views, but that doesn't mean you have to be crude and ill-mannered, it's a matter of respect.

There is a difference between making fun little jokes about Christianity and attacking their belief systems. I will listen to complaints about the latter, and make fun of the crybaby whining about the first.

And i will listen to the latter, but raise eyebrows the unneeded insults.

I am sorry, but if a Christian cannot take fun jabs at their belief system, then they don't deserve the respect you speak of.

And if you do not have the consideration to not make filthy comments involving someone's lord, savior, and object of worship...they owe you very little, if any, respect.

Borg's comment was not exactly a fun jab at their belief system. It may have been in good humor (and was), but it was taken more as an insult.

but I don't think an atheist should be muzzled when it comes to fun little demonstrations of one's lack of faith, whereas a Christian can sit there and talk ever so highly about all the great things they get from their faith.

If they are talking about the great things of their faith, why do you get to throw in an insult rather than combat them with counterattacks and sharing your takes on the situation?

There is nothing better about Christianity that they should be awarded powers of speech that are denied to me.

Jerejerebinks was upset at the comment, but replied in a pretty mature manner. He did not use profanity, or make an aggressive or offensive comment to counter it.
The theist gets the right to express their views just as the atheist can counter them or share opposing views...nowhere does coarse language come into the picture into "rights and immunities" for atheists.

And I've never met a Christian that didn't want respect.

Hi

What about a seemingly factual comment??

Be careful what you say about your devil, for he has your god on his side. Your god which has chosen to tolerate him in his plagues upon you!

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
What about a seemingly factual comment??

Be careful what you say about your devil, for he has your god on his side. Your god which has chosen to tolerate him in his plagues upon you!

I would have said nothing had HaVok and Jere not made objections to it. Just pointing out something i found perplexing in the moderation.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Im not defending God, when it comes down to it. Im defending my beliefs, however right or wrong they are.

Which is precisely what this religion forum is for.


There are a lot of thigs that should be considered wrong to do on this forum, such as blatant racial remarks, sexuality remarks. As someone who believes in God, I put Him higher than all the aforementioned.

I can respect your feelings about God HaVok, but it's not always easy to decide what's over-the-line and what's not, when it comes to the remarks of others.


I dont blame you Loki, as you really have no input on who does what on these forums. I blame moderation. I guarantee if I were to start making racial/homo remarks they would be deleted and i would get a reprimand or worse.

I don't think that's quite fair HaVok. You have previously said this about the moderators here:

I feel like the moderators do a good job with this 3 ring circus we all call Allforums.

As to your above statement, It would entirely depend on what the remarks were, not who they were aimed at.


But since they only want atheists as moderators (dont give me jere for that lame ass individual forum he moderates), I think it gives them a tickle when people like you make the comments they wont make.

To be honest HaVok, I really don't think there is/was a concerted effort to have only atheists as moderators. I don't believe ES is an atheist, and the fact that Borg and I are, is just happenstance. I don't get a "tickle" out of the fact that some people make statements regarding Christianity that are perhaps more harsh than I would make. I just don't like to censor people, and I don't think anybody here would want me to.

Before you come back and say that I censored you (and others) when I edited out the word "cunt" from your post (and several replies), I think there's a big difference. I don't believe I've ever censored anyone for what they've said, but rather for how they've said things. I don't want to keep someone from expressing any idea, but there are just some words that don't belong in even semi-polite conversation. I would let someone come here and post the fact that they don't like blacks or gays, but as soon as they use the word "nigger" or "faggot" that's going to be deleted, and they will be warned not to do it again. I may not like the message they wish to spread, but I wouldn't censor out what someone was trying to say.

Originally posted by Evakian
Yet Borg's statement, which greatly unsettled HaVok and Jere, stands as is. There definitely are words that need never be used, but a lewd comment involving someone's lord, savior, and life's inspiration is also something that needs to be put into that category. If this was a debate where we were discussing beliefs and doctrine, i see nothing wrong with someone professing or not professing belief in a faith and arguing to that end, but to "pop in a joke" that offends someone(or several people), and you choose to not edit it while editing a swear word, is not the most considerate path to take. The remark did not phase me, but i do find it perplexing at the behavior going on here.

Evak, I don't like to censor anything, not even to the point of editing out single words. There are some words that I will pretty much automatically edit out simply because I feel thay have no place in civilized discourse.

I certainly have no desire to edit someone's posts because of the ideas they are expressing, indeed, when I edited HaVok's post recently, I did it such a way as to not change the meaning of his post. It would be much easier to simply delete posts which I find offensive, but that would be censorship, and I'm rather vehemently against censorship.

All these things being said, the moderators here are only human, and we have to make decisions on what to edit and what not to edit based on the same emotions that the other posters struggle with. We get angry, frustrated, and annoyed, just like everyone else. Sometimes we make mistakes. Despite this, I'd have to say that the mods here aren't prone to fits of pique, or knee-jerk reactions, and I don't recall ever seeing anyone who was censored for the message they were trying to express.

Thanks for your input Vile. I was just making a point about taking into consideration everyone's feelings and how the mods should treat it. I wouldn't condone the necessarily censoring of the post or message, but a comment from a website admin that upsets a few members and no action is taken makes me wonder about fairness. Also as you said, some things "have no place in civilized discourse". But enough of this tomfoolery and bickering...

...we now return to your regularly scheduled program. :D

Hold on, I'm not done yet! :)

If they are talking about the great things of their faith, why do you get to throw in an insult rather than combat them with counterattacks and sharing your takes on the situation?

Like you said, anything an atheist says can be taken as an insult by a Christian with a stick up his ass. Me saying, "I don't believe in God," qualifies in many theists minds. But they cannot say that without looking silly. So they complain about anything and everything a atheist says that they think they can get away with. Nobody should have to deal with that, but they get away with it because they are the majority religion. The minority point of view has to be respected to a greater extent than the majority, because otherwise it is way too easy for the majority to take advantage. That is what protecting free speech means. The majority view does not need protection, and any attempt by people to do so is giving ammunition for the majority to squelch the ideas of the minority.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
There is about as much chance of that happening as there is you ever saying anything funny.

hmmmm, lets see he can turn water to wine and come back from the dead??? I quess when you believe in Jesus you should believe that anything could be possible:)

Well I made it through the weekend without being struck down. So I quess this means Jesus didn't mind my joke. Maybe all the good followers should take some of Jesus's advise and turn the other cheek??? I don't feel bad about what I wrote and never will, it was made in a light hearted way. When someone comes here and tells us that the world is going to end, intelligent people would like the facts behind their story. When there are no facts to back up such outragous stories then jokes will fall from the sky. Havok, and others I think you took my joke WAY to much to heart.

With all of that said maybe we should get back to the end of the world it must be way more important then what some idiot{ME} makes jokes of????????????

Yeh and considering the end of the world is next Tuesday Maddog Id appriciate it if you would start kissing my feet and calling me buddha, for I am the white horse, and death rides me like a biatch

Originally posted by mad dog
hmmmm, lets see he can turn water to wine
His followers here seem to have turned water to whine...

Originally posted by BorgHunter
His followers here seem to have turned water to whine...

blah blah blah always with the word play ;)
That was good though

Loki LMAO

I did see something the other day about a meteor hitting the earth around the year 2028. It could have effects like the one that hit during dino time.I didn't catch all the details maybe one of you know something more? If it does hit is this the work of a distructive{mad} God or is this God changing the planet again? Maybe God is sick of humans and is ready to start the next evolution of a smarter creature?

Originally posted by mad dog
Maybe God is sick of humans and is ready to start the next evolution of a smarter creature?

lol Can you blame him?

I noticed that cnn ran a Halloween survey.
I know nothing about the survey criteria, but did notice one aspect.
68% of people surveyed believed in ghosts.
55% of people surveyed believed in god.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
His followers here seem to have turned water to whine... Maybe it is whining to you. I feel i simply stated my opinion. You can try to turn it around all you want to, but we both know I have never backed off a statement i made. You got the responses you wanted. Bask in it.

Originally posted by Vilepagan




I don't think that's quite fair HaVok. You have previously said this about the moderators here: In this ever changing world we live in Vile, is it any wonder that opinions can change?

I guess I should ammend that statement and add the words "for the most part"




Originally posted by Vilepagan

To be honest HaVok, I really don't think there is/was a concerted effort to have only atheists as moderators. I don't believe ES is an atheist, and the fact that Borg and I are, is just happenstance. I don't get a "tickle" out of the fact that some people make statements regarding Christianity that are perhaps more harsh than I would make. I just don't like to censor people, and I don't think anybody here would want me to. LMAO Vile. Drew is an atheist himself. If allforums were a place of work, there would be strong evidence of discrimination in your hiring practices. Would you go to court and defend it with that lame statement of "happenstance"?

Es may not be an atheist, but he is certainly no friend to christian beliefs whatever his religious/non religious leanings. He has made that clear in other posts he has made.




Originally posted by Vilepagan

Before you come back and say that I censored you (and others) when I edited out the word "cunt" from your post (and several replies), I think there's a big difference. I don't believe I've ever censored anyone for what they've said, but rather for how they've said things. I don't want to keep someone from expressing any idea, but there are just some words that don't belong in even semi-polite conversation. I would let someone come here and post the fact that they don't like blacks or gays, but as soon as they use the word "nigger" or "faggot" that's going to be deleted, and they will be warned not to do it again. I may not like the message they wish to spread, but I wouldn't censor out what someone was trying to say. However you try to spin it Vile, its selective censorship. To this very post, no one has censored the poor attempt at a joke the gay crusader used. But if something offends you, you censor it. You or any of the other moderators will not see my point of view because you dont want to. It doesnt fit into your atheist views.

Originally posted by HaVoK
LMAO Vile. Drew is an atheist himself. If allforums were a place of work, there would be strong evidence of discrimination in your hiring practices.

Mark Twain said "There are three kinds of lies, lies, damn lies, and statistics".

You look at the fact that Drew is an atheist, and the fact that the rest of the mods are predominantly atheist, and conclude that Drew conciously chose the mods for their atheism, presumably due to some level of hatred for Christians on Drews part. As it happens, all the mods are caucasian males, but I don't hear anyone calling him a racist, or a sexist, because of that.


Would you go to court and defend it with that lame statement of "happenstance"?

Considering the fact that I asked Drew to be a mod, he didn't ask me, and the fact that he never inquired as to my religious beliefs before making me a mod, I'd stick with the truth, that it's just happenstance, yes.

On the subject of defending oneself, what would you tell the judge were your reasons for uttering that particularly nasty vulgarity?


Es may not be an atheist, but he is certainly no friend to christian beliefs whatever his religious/non religious leanings. He has made that clear in other posts he has made.

Which means what exactly?


However you try to spin it Vile, its selective censorship. To this very post, no one has censored the poor attempt at a joke the gay crusader used.

Are you advocating censorship?


But if something offends you, you censor it. You or any of the other moderators will not see my point of view because you dont want to. It doesnt fit into your atheist views.

To be honest HaVok, I don't believe your point of view is valid. In my view the two statements we're discussing are so dissimilar as to make any comparison a feeble one.

Borg's statement was a joke. A crude joke perhaps, but a joke nonetheless, and one that contained no vulgarities, profanities, or slurs of any kind. I understand that you and others took offense to Borg's joke, but as a moderstor I'm not here to prevent people from being "offended".

You seem to think that I edited your post because I was offended. I edited your post because you used inappropriate language on a forum where we have members as young as 12. It's as simple as that. There are some words that I will automatically edit out of anyone's post, regardless of their, or my, religious beliefs.

Do you remember this thread HaVok?

http://www.allforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12035

This thread was originally titled "God is an asshole". It was posted by an avowed atheist, and the title was subsequently edited by me for this reason:

I changed the title of the thread because I think it was a bit out-of-line ivan. I don't like censorship, and I didn't edit anything you posted, but the title of the thread was a bit much. Try to tone it down a bit please.

I noticed you didn't complain about my moderating then, and you seem to have forgotten about it now.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
Mark Twain said "There are three kinds of lies, lies, damn lies, and statistics".

You look at the fact that Drew is an atheist, and the fact that the rest of the mods are predominantly atheist, and conclude that Drew conciously chose the mods for their atheism, presumably due to some level of hatred for Christians on Drews part. As it happens, all the mods are caucasian males, but I don't hear anyone calling him a racist, or a sexist, because of that. Right...just a coincedence. Purely "happenstance". You quote Mark Twain to make your point, i'll use one from down here in Va. "If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, chances are it's nothing more than a duck."










Originally posted by Vilepagan

Considering the fact that I asked Drew to be a mod, he didn't ask me, and the fact that he never inquired as to my religious beliefs before making me a mod, I'd stick with the truth, that it's just happenstance, yes. It's not like it was any secret that you were atheist though. So not even you can speak as to whether religious beliefs/non beliefs was a contributing factor to your becoming a mod.


Originally posted by Vilepagan

On the subject of defending oneself, what would you tell the judge were your reasons for uttering that particularly nasty vulgarity?Is cunt anymore vulgar than fucknuts? You didnt censor that word. You can keep trying to defend your selective censorship, but it still has a false ring to it.




Originally posted by Vilepagan

Which means what exactly?.Just what I posted. It's not like im trying to play with words vile. I dont have the knack for it.


Originally posted by Vilepagan

Are you advocating censorship?You certainly are. You have us confused.




Originally posted by Vilepagan

To be honest HaVok, I don't believe your point of view is valid. In my view the two statements we're discussing are so dissimilar as to make any comparison a feeble one.

Borg's statement was a joke. A crude joke perhaps, but a joke nonetheless, and one that contained no vulgarities, profanities, or slurs of any kind. Borg's statement was as vulgar a joke as there can be to a christian. Why do i have to explain this to you? It's like a religious debate comes up and you atheists all plead ignorance all of a sudden.





Originally posted by Vilepagan

I understand that you and others took offense to Borg's joke, but as a moderstor I'm not here to prevent people from being "offended".

No, only when someone uses a word you dont like. LMAO...





Originally posted by Vilepagan

You seem to think that I edited your post because I was offended. I edited your post because you used inappropriate language on a forum where we have members as young as 12. It's as simple as that. There are some words that I will automatically edit out of anyone's post, regardless of their, or my, religious beliefs.
Like i asked earlier: Is "fucknutz" anymore acceptable than the word i used?



Originally posted by Vilepagan

Do you remember this thread HaVok?

http://www.allforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12035

This thread was originally titled "God is an asshole". It was posted by an avowed atheist, and the title was subsequently edited by me for this reason:


I noticed you didn't complain about my moderating then, and you seem to have forgotten about it now. Oh yeah Vile, pat yourself on the back for trying to make some funny statement by putting the title "vile is god" or something to that extent. What exactly were you trying to say? Oh never mind, i already know your answer. I should just "lighten up"...

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
To be honest Im happy to admit that what I say here often offends the Christians, and that I could have worded it better and took a more respectful stance whilst still getting across my point. I dont because I personally dislike the faith and that comes across in my posts.

You seem to be ignorant of everyones feelings almost flawlessly so Its pointless even trying to explain it to you. You have said a number of times no one can teach you anything so I shant bother trying.

Blob lol, nice.

You seem to be mistaking a disrespect of a particular religion with a disrespect of the people who practice that religion.

If atheists wish to have a serious discussion concerning the existence of God, or of the divinity of Jesus, that is one thing. When atheist insist on being snotty little children posting crude comments whose only purpose is to insult and hurt others that is quite another thing.

For a forum moderator to participate in such behavior is beyond the pale. If borghunter feels his dislike of religion is of such importance to him that he is compelled to post crudities whose only purpose is to offend theists, perhaps he should give up the position of moderator and allow someone with more maturity to replace him.

Originally posted by Frogger

For a forum moderator to participate in such behavior is beyond the pale. If borghunter feels his dislike of religion is of such importance to him that he is compelled to post crudities whose only purpose is to offend theists, perhaps he should give up the position of moderator and allow someone with more maturity to replace him.

Or... if it upsets you that much, you can leave this forum. If however like I presume is the case, it doesnt actually bother you or anyone here to the point they would leave the forum then sadly your going to have to deal with it.

I guess at the end of the day its their forum, and ultimatly we play by their rules.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Or... if it upsets you that much, you can leave this forum. If however like I presume is the case, it doesnt actually bother you or anyone here to the point they would leave the forum then sadly your going to have to deal with it.

I guess at the end of the day its their forum, and ultimatly we play by their rules.

*you're or you are

*ultimately

As far as Frogger's comment is concerned, i find it sensible. The moderator's job is to maintain a stable enviroment for the posters and handle forum issues.

Someone leaving over that comment needs to lighten up or get a life, but if they were upset...it should be taken into consideration as If atheists wish to have a serious discussion concerning the existence of God, or of the divinity of Jesus, that is one thing. When atheist insist on being snotty little children posting crude comments whose only purpose is to insult and hurt others that is quite another thing. And no, they do not have to "deal with it", they can make it an issue and debate it...as this is a debate forum. Although i can't say it hurt my personal feelings, attacked anything i believed, or even made me upset in any way...i have the ability to debate it and chose to do so, to bring to the forefront attention to such things, and also the fact Jerejerebinks is rarely on and so has not taken a stand for his beliefs or feelings.

As for "playing by their rules", that should not be the case...there should be rules set in stone and agreed upon by the moderators and administrators to which they can follow in order to govern the happenings of the forums. Vile editing out a few coarse words is to assist those that do not wish to read such barbarous comments, or moving threads into the more proper section of the website, or isolating advertisements for internet scams...all these things are designed to help the community, it is general practice for moderators at websites such as this to do so...that serves as more a "public service" to us rather than personal choice.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Right...just a coincedence. Purely "happenstance". You quote Mark Twain to make your point, i'll use one from down here in Va. "If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, chances are it's nothing more than a duck."

Mark Twain is smarter than Virginia. :)


It's not like it was any secret that you were atheist though. So not even you can speak as to whether religious beliefs/non beliefs was a contributing factor to your becoming a mod.

You're right HaVok, it's entirely possible that Drew has appointed all atheist mods. If you want to know why all the mods are atheist you can ask him. When he tells you he didn't do it intentionally, then you can relate your "no coincidence" theory to him and see what his reaction is.


Is cunt anymore vulgar than fucknuts?

IMO, yes.


You didnt censor that word. You can keep trying to defend your selective censorship, but it still has a false ring to it.

I'm not defending anything HaVok. I was merely trying to explain my reasoning for editing out your vulgar language. I might add that I think it's amazing that anyone, especially an adult, would need such an explanation to uderstand that using that word is unacceptable.


Borg's statement was as vulgar a joke as there can be to a christian.

As I said, it may have been a crude joke, but it was a joke nonetheless, and it contained no vulgarity.


Why do i have to explain this to you?

Why do you think you need to explain this to me? I acknowledged as much in my previous post.


It's like a religious debate comes up and you atheists all plead ignorance all of a sudden.

Plead ignorance to what HaVok? Again, I understand that you, and others, were offended by Borg's remark. This is perfectly acceptable. What isn't acceptable is for you to express that displeasure with crude vulgarities. Why do I have to explain this to you? If you wish to claim that Borg made this comment due to a lack of maturity, perhaps you should examine your own language habits first.


No, only when someone uses a word you dont like. LMAO...

I'm sorry if you can't see the difference between editing out inappropriate language, and editing out a statement that some people were "offended" by.


Like i asked earlier: Is "fucknutz" anymore acceptable than the word i used?

Yes.


Oh yeah Vile, pat yourself on the back for trying to make some funny statement by putting the title "vile is god" or something to that extent. What exactly were you trying to say? Oh never mind, i already know your answer. I should just "lighten up"...

I'll try again. This is the reason I edited Ivan's previous post:


I changed the title of the thread because I think it was a bit out-of-line ivan. I don't like censorship, and I didn't edit anything you posted, but the title of the thread was a bit much. Try to tone it down a bit please.

Do you see a joke in there anywhere? Do you see me telling anyone to "lighten up"?

I posted that link to show that your claim of "selective censorship" is false. I've "censored" atheists who made vulgar remarks about your god in the past, but you conveniently ignore this fact because it doesn't fit in with your theory about being discriminated against.

A final point. If you want anyone to take your claims of offense at face value, you need to own up to your own mistakes. So far all you've tried to do is defend your use of inappropriate language.

Originally posted by Frogger
If atheists wish to have a serious discussion concerning the existence of God, or of the divinity of Jesus, that is one thing. When atheist insist on being snotty little children posting crude comments whose only purpose is to insult and hurt others that is quite another thing.

The same holds true for the other side of the argument as well.


For a forum moderator to participate in such behavior is beyond the pale.

I disagree. Borg's statement is no better or worse for having been made by a moderator.


If borghunter feels his dislike of religion is of such importance to him that he is compelled to post crudities whose only purpose is to offend theists, perhaps he should give up the position of moderator and allow someone with more maturity to replace him.

Perhaps you, and others, should stop assuming you know why Borg posted his comment. Having known him for some time, I feel confident he didn't make his post with the purpose of offending anyone.

I'm offended at how long this is being draaaaaged out :(

Originally posted by Vilepagan
The same holds true for the other side of the argument as well.


Yes it does and even though I am not an atheist or a Jew or a Hindu, etc., I would say the same thing if they were insulted in the same or a similar manner.



I disagree. Borg's statement is no better or worse for having been made by a moderator.

Perhaps you, and others, should stop assuming you know why Borg posted his comment. Having known him for some time, I feel confident he didn't make his post with the purpose of offending anyone.

The same does hold true for the other side of the argument. Since atherist, unlike theist, have no higher form to insult it is pretty hard to post statements of the same type as those posted concerning God and Jesus. However, if something was posted with no other purpose than to gratuitously insult the beliefs of atheist it would be just as wrong.

Borg's post is worse because it was made by a moderator. The root word of moderator is moderate and the statement was anything but moderate. Just like Hebrew National, certain people should be held to a higher standard.

You know Borg for a long time and are using other criteria to judge him. Those of us who know him only from his post have no other criteria by which to judge him.

He should never have posted such a statement and, having posted it should have edited it out when he saw how upsetting it was to other posters. Vile and insensitive statements are no different than vile and insensitive curse words. If one is removed for being offensive to posters the other should also be removed.

For someone to suggest as Lokideviluk did that a poster who disagrees with another poster, even a moderator, should leave the forum is an incredibly childish attitude akin to, America, love it or leave it.

There are mature individuals on this board who wish to debate and exchange ideas in an adult manner, and perhaps learn something.

And there are those who don't.

There are posters here who respect all faiths and beliefs, including atheists. And there are those who don't.


PS. Those who believe that Christians or those of other faiths have a monopoly on rudeness are sorely mistaken. Please see some of the above posts.

Originally posted by Frogger

For someone to suggest as Lokideviluk did that a poster who disagrees with another poster, even a moderator, should leave the forum is an incredibly childish attitude akin to, America, love it or leave it.

Noooo,

I said if you dont like the way the Moderators Moderate this forum then leave. I was wrong because really and truly your other options are to bitch and whine, to ignore it, or to spend a great amount of time debating the issue but dont expect them to change just because your feelings have been hurt.

Originally posted by Vilepagan

You're right HaVok, it's entirely possible that Drew has appointed all atheist mods. If you want to know why all the mods are atheist you can ask him. When he tells you he didn't do it intentionally, then you can relate your "no coincidence" theory to him and see what his reaction is. I'll relate nothing to him. It's right here in writing and the meaning is clear. That is, unless you see fit to censor something else i have said.





Originally posted by Vilepagan

I'm not defending anything HaVok. I was merely trying to explain my reasoning for editing out your vulgar language. I might add that I think it's amazing that anyone, especially an adult, would need such an explanation to uderstand that using that word is unacceptable. It's a word, grandma. We give our kids condoms at school and tell them to have a good time. But a word is going to cause them irreparable damage?


Originally posted by Vilepagan

As I said, it may have been a crude joke, but it was a joke nonetheless, and it contained no vulgarity. Of course this crude, vulgar joke wouldnt have the same impact on someone like you. You're an atheist, like all your mod brethren.




Originally posted by Vilepagan

Plead ignorance to what HaVok? Again, I understand that you, and others, were offended by Borg's remark. This is perfectly acceptable. What isn't acceptable is for you to express that displeasure with crude vulgarities. Why do I have to explain this to you? If you wish to claim that Borg made this comment due to a lack of maturity, perhaps you should examine your own language habits first. I guess i used the word to get the reaction I wanted. I wanted someone to respond to it. Just didnt know the PC police would get involved and censor a simple word.



Originally posted by Vilepagan

I'm sorry if you can't see the difference between editing out inappropriate language, and editing out a statement that some people were "offended" by.
No, you're not sorry a bit. Why did you "edit out an inappropritate word"? Maybe because someone would get "offended" at its use? I guess here at allforums, with their PC police, you only censor words that offend you personally.





Originally posted by Vilepagan

I'll try again. This is the reason I edited Ivan's previous post:



Do you see a joke in there anywhere? Do you see me telling anyone to "lighten up"?

I posted that link to show that your claim of "selective censorship" is false. I've "censored" atheists who made vulgar remarks about your god in the past, but you conveniently ignore this fact because it doesn't fit in with your theory about being discriminated against.

A final point. If you want anyone to take your claims of offense at face value, you need to own up to your own mistakes. So far all you've tried to do is defend your use of inappropriate language. Then I'll try once again since you either cant or wont understand. You deserve no pat on the back for changing Ivans dumb ass title around to where it is worded that "god is vile". I guess you think others didnt get the double entendre? You think christians didnt understand that you were only going through the motions with Ivan, but in the process you still managed to give a back hand slap to people of faith. I know, I know. You didnt mean it. You were only joking. I should lighten up. I've heard them all, dont bother.

Originally posted by Frogger
He should never have posted such a statement and, having posted it should have edited it out when he saw how upsetting it was to other posters.
I would have, had I been requested to politely. I do respond to polite requests. Alas, Jere just vaguely complained about it, and Havok decided to take the low road and insult me instead of talking to me. Too bad no one tried to actually talk to me. Yep, I have received no PMs and no emails regarding my post. Havok, perhaps you should have considered this path?

Originally posted by BorgHunter
I would have, had I been requested to politely. I do respond to polite requests. Alas, Jere just vaguely complained about it, and Havok decided to take the low road and insult me instead of talking to me. Too bad no one tried to actually talk to me. Yep, I have received no PMs and no emails regarding my post. Havok, perhaps you should have considered this path? You knew what you were doing when you intially posted your filth, fucknutz. Dont look for me to beg you not to post your trash.

Originally posted by HaVoK
You knew what you were doing when you intially posted your filth, fucknutz. Dont look for me to beg you not to post your trash.
Then you have no room to complain. Also, I'm glad to see you demonstrate your superior maturity to me! And you're complaining about crudeness and vulgarity?

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Then you have no room to complain. Also, I'm glad to see you demonstrate your superior maturity to me! And you're complaining about crudeness and vulgarity? What? I didnt say a bad word. Ask vile.

I was never one of those calling you immature. You meant what you posted. You will mean it when you're 100. No immaturity there. So check yourself before you accuse me of something i didnt say.

Originally posted by HaVoK
What? I didnt say a bad word. Ask vile.
Huh? Check yourself before you accuse Vile of saying something he didn't say...
I was never one of those calling you immature. You meant what you posted.
What, exactly, did you think I "meant"? I didn't "mean" anything. It was a joke.

You knew what you were doing when you intially posted your filth, fucknutz. Dont look for me to beg you not to post your trash.
What is really the difference between begging and whining...

[removed at the request of Vile]



Now, what's more offensive, my word choice or borg's comment? Therefore, what would be more offensive, your word choice or borgs comment? Though my word choice is probably more offensive than yours...

LOL...look everyone. The gay crusaders life partner has come to his aid. Sorry blob..hope i didnt make you too mad, tough guy. Your tough words on the internet are sooooooooo intimidating. Glory in your anonymity. Like i said before, you're too smart to do it in the real world.

Originally posted by HaVoK
LOL...look everyone. The gay crusaders life partner has come to his aid.
Um...okay...

Originally posted by HaVoK
You knew what you were doing when you intially posted your filth, fucknutz. Dont look for me to beg you not to post your trash.

That was very christian like. hmmm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vilepagan

I'm sorry if you can't see the difference between editing out inappropriate language, and editing out a statement that some people were "offended" by.


You edit out inappropriate language because some people might be offended by it. That was already admitted. If you feel it important to edit out words that might offend someone why do you not feel it important to be consistent and edit out words and phrases that might offend others?

BorgHunter,

I am asking you, politely, to remove your offensive post. As a theist, specifically a Christian, I find it much more offensive than mere curse words that are deleted so as to not offend anyone.


If you want, I will pm you asking you to remove the offending post.

To the people of faith on this board, no matter what that faith may be--

I commend you for your courage. And for thinking that there is something out there greater than yourselves.

May God bless you. Walk with God.

Rendova

Originally posted by Frogger
BorgHunter,

I am asking you, politely, to remove your offensive post. As a theist, specifically a Christian, I find it much more offensive than mere curse words that are deleted so as to not offend anyone.


If you want, I will pm you asking you to remove the offending post.
I'm afraid it's a bit too late at this point, though your polite request is noted. There are six pages of arguing over pretty much just my post...deleting and/or editing it would lose the context of the argument. Under other circumstances I would, but it's out there and we're still arguing about it. However, because you asked kindly, I will choose my words with more care in the future.
Originally posted by rendova
To the people of faith on this board, no matter what that faith may be--

I commend you for your courage. And for thinking that there is something out there greater than yourselves.

May God bless you. Walk with God.

Rendova
To those without faith on this board:

I commend you for your courage. And for thinking that you, alone, have the power to choose your own course, and to alter that course at need.

May you bless yourself. Choose your own path.

--BorgHunter

[.

To those without faith on this board:

I commend you for your courage. And for thinking that you, alone, have the power to choose your own course, and to alter that course at need.

May you bless yourself. Choose your own path.

--BorgHunter [/B][/QUOTE]

And may they also grant themselves a few social graces as well, along with the abilty to construct an arguement without insults.

Originally posted by rendova
And may they also grant themselves a few social graces as well, along with the abilty to construct an arguement without insults.
Insults? Post one quote of an insult I have used in this thread. Please.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Huh? Check yourself before you accuse Vile of saying something he didn't say...
I didnt accuse him of saying anything. His actions speak louder than any words, fucknutz.




Originally posted by BorgHunter

What, exactly, did you think I "meant"? I didn't "mean" anything. It was a joke. Yeah, sure. After such a warm reception it received, I can see how you would keep it posted because it's "just a joke". /sarcasm

Originally posted by BorgHunter
I'm afraid it's a bit too late at this point, though your polite request is noted. There are six pages of arguing over pretty much just my post...deleting and/or editing it would lose the context of the argument. Under other circumstances I would, but it's out there and we're still arguing about it. However, because you asked kindly, I will choose my words with more care in the future.

To those without faith on this board:

I commend you for your courage. And for thinking that you, alone, have the power to choose your own course, and to alter that course at need.

May you bless yourself. Choose your own path.

--BorgHunter Thanks for the fine example of you being a liar Borg. Your actions speak louder than your lies. This response is more polite than i would have expected from you, but the results are the same, nonetheless. Keep up the good work, fucknutz.

I find it ironic and funny that most of Blib's posts are rude, mean, vulgar, offensive and show a lack of social skills but yet no one edits his posts. And he tends to side of the liberal side more-often then not. Anyone want to answer this?

PS: Look no further then this post right here in this thread.

Originally posted by Blibblob
What is really the difference between begging and whining...

Well, one it seems would be that with the former one would usually recieve bread and with the latter, cheese is more appropriate. Other than that, however, they're effectively the same. You have been whining like the pathetic little christian you are, whining to everybody like a fucking retard hoping that something would get changed. Maybe everybody's time would have been better served if you had just flat out begged him to remove it, since because of your baby-pussy religion forbids you to actually try and make one change you just wander around like fucking asshats bothering the shit out of whoever you see claiming that Jesus saves. Well, Jesus can suck by big hairy man cock. It's a win win situation too, since after he does it, you'll all do it also and I'll have an endless pleasure supply.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Jesus is coming! Luckily, he's wearing a condom.

borg,
I personally took this as a termendous insult. Maybe it was intended as a joke. Maybe no harm was meant.
but there are many of us here who consider Jesus Christ the son of God and were very offended by that statement. It was personally hurtful to me. Because I consider Jesus a friend of mine.
I am fully prepared to be ridiculed by others because of that last statement. It makes no difference to me. But what is said about Jesus does make a difference to me. I try to live my life by his standards, most especially the phrase--"love ye one another."

I don't think anyone on this thread meant to convert anyone here, with the exception of Sevenstarhand. Yet he has the right to his thoughts as well. This is just simple respect and courtesy for others. I certainly did not mean to "convert" anyone... It is not my intention to change anyone or to tell them that I am right and their personal beliefs, or lack of beliefs, are wrong.

It really saddens me, to see what is said about Jesus, a person who preached kindliness.

Originally posted by rendova
borg,
I personally took this as a termendous insult. Maybe it was intended as a joke. Maybe no harm was meant.
but there are many of us here who consider Jesus Christ the son of God and were very offended by that statement. It was personally hurtful to me. Because I consider Jesus a friend of mine.
I took your posts commending those with faith as an insult. You implied that those without faith lack courage. Glass houses...