I saw an interesting version of the "Jesus fish" today on a car. It had a fisherman with a fishing pole and line and the "Jesus fish" on a hook. I am curious if anyone else has seen this, and if anyone knows where I could get one.

That's pretty sad. What a shame.

Yes. Torturing poor animals.

http://www.rof.com/

Eight dollars apiece?! I paid five bucks for my Darwin fish! Damn them and their expensive fishies...

Thanks. The fish and hook are there anyway. Now all I have to do is figure out where they got the fisherman.

Originally posted by Imagineer
I saw an interesting version of the "Jesus fish" today on a car. It had a fisherman with a fishing pole and line and the "Jesus fish" on a hook. I am curious if anyone else has seen this, and if anyone knows where I could get one. Forgive me for being a little slow on the uptake on this one. Could you explain to me exactly what this would signify?

I don't know that it has any deep meaning. I thought it was humorous in a "I wasn't expecting that" sort of way. It made me laugh when I saw it.

Thanks Havok - I was wondering the same thing. :)

I think it means that those in the religious mindset have been caught hook line and sinker by quite possibly the greatest con this world has ever seen. Get millions of people to worship something they have never and will never see is pretty impressive stuff.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
I think it means that those in the religious mindset have been caught hook line and sinker by quite possibly the greatest con this world has ever seen. Get millions of people to worship something they have never and will never see is pretty impressive stuff.

Or, it could mean that those who believe in Jesus as the Christ have been caught by God to be reeled in to a better life in the hereafter. Remember Jesus's injunction to be fishers of men.

Oh yes... thats what it meant... baring in mind all the edited fish symbols are mocking religion in someway.

You interpret it your way and I'll interpret it mine. Since no one seems to have any idea what it means, my interpretation is a valid as yours. Also, since it is purely a symbolic statement anyone's interpretation is as valid as anyone else's.

Originally posted by Frogger
You interpret it your way and I'll interpret it mine. Since no one seems to have any idea what it means, my interpretation is a valid as yours. Also, since it is purely a symbolic statement anyone's interpretation is as valid as anyone else's.
Considering that it's sold on a site selling other mockeries of the ichthys, I think the creators probably had mockery in mind. Though you are free to your own interpretation, of course.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
I think it means that those in the religious mindset have been caught hook line and sinker by quite possibly the greatest con this world has ever seen. Get millions of people to worship something they have never and will never see is pretty impressive stuff. Thanks for your input. However the question was directed at Imagineer, and i really couldnt care less what it meant to you since you didnt post it, or make any comments on it before i asked.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Considering that it's sold on a site selling other mockeries of the ichthys, I think the creators probably had mockery in mind. Though you are free to your own interpretation, of course. Thats awful nice of you to allow others to have their own interpretations. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Get millions of people to worship something they have never and will never see is pretty impressive stuff.

Matthew 8:8
The centurion replied, "Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed."

It is called faith, and an essential part of many, if not all religions. The followers need not see it, and they can still believe, they can still feel and understand the message.

Rolling on the floor and talking in tongues....I believe, I believe, I have faith, don't know why, where, what or how but the man in black with the white collor told me to believe so I'm gonna...and no one can change my mind cause it is already made up. Amen.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Thats awful nice of you to allow others to have their own interpretations. :rolleyes:
You know damned well what I meant, now please stop stalking my posts due to your goddamn grudge.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
You know damned well what I meant, now please stop stalking my posts due to your goddamn grudge. Do I really know what you mean? Im sure if i confronted you about it you would have a backup ready.

Im not so sure making a comment on one of your threads would be considered "stalking". But whatever.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Thanks for your input. However the question was directed at Imagineer, and i really couldnt care less what it meant to you since you didnt post it, or make any comments on it before i asked.

If a point is made, or a question asked, people are going to comment on it. Thankfully there is fuck all you can do to stop me sharing my views :)

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
If a point is made, or a question asked, people are going to comment on it. Thankfully there is fuck all you can do to stop me sharing my views :) Oh i know. I was just letting you know your opinion is shit. :)

Originally posted by Echo2
Rolling on the floor and talking in tongues....I believe, I believe, I have faith, don't know why, where, what or how but the man in black with the white collor told me to believe so I'm gonna...and no one can change my mind cause it is already made up. Amen.

Yes, that's exactly it Echo :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by HaVoK
Oh i know. I was just letting you know your opinion is shit. :)

How you masquerade as holding to Christian values is amusing.

This is partly why i dont have a problem with Buddhists, Shintoism and the like, because its not a Propaganda religion and its followers tend not to be bullshit representations of its faith.

Originally posted by Evakian


It is called faith, and an essential part of many, if not all religions. The followers need not see it, and they can still believe, they can still feel and understand the message.

Why did you point this out? I said it was impressive stuff which Id assume youd agree with? I know full well its because of Faith.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
How you masquerade as holding to Christian values is amusing.

This is partly why i dont have a problem with Buddhists, Shintoism and the like, because its not a Propaganda religion and its followers tend not to be bullshit representations of its faith. As with your opinion, I also couldnt care less whether you want to have faith or not. People like you are always going to look to any negative they can find to use as examples, so who cares?

I have never claimed to be a good christian, only a faithful one.

Originally posted by HaVoK

I have never claimed to be a good christian, only a faithful one.

Do you think perhaps you should at least attempt to be a good Christian?

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Do you think perhaps you should at least attempt to be a good Christian? What makes you think you can even question me on my faith? You have never shown the least interest in it before. All you have ever done is show your disdain for it, but to make a point now you want to question it? Kindly fuck off.

Originally posted by HaVoK
What makes you think you can even question me on my faith?

I wasnt questioning your faith, I was questioning your ability to be a good christian which you admitted to being bad at.

Originally posted by HaVoK
but to make a point now you want to question it? Kindly fuck off.

You demostrate a total lack of restraint, aggressive behaviour verbally, and an inability to communicate in a respectful manner. Not exactly qualities Id align with what Christ wanted from his followers but then as you did so rightly state.

Originally posted by HaVoK
I have never claimed to be a good christian,

So i guess that makes up for it :rolleyes:

Havok whilst I do believe you believe in Heaven, I suspect you think just labelling yourself a Christian will get you there. Sod actually behaving like one, you believe in God so thats "clearly" enough reason to get promoted when you die. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Do you think perhaps you should at least attempt to be a good Christian?

You are falling into the old misconception that Christians are always good. Nothing could be further from the truth. Christians are fallable human beings with all the behaviors that that entails.

Christians are not perfect. Christians are forgiven their imperfections.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk


You demostrate a total lack of restraint, aggressive behaviour verbally, and an inability to communicate in a respectful manner. Not exactly qualities Id align with what Christ wanted from his followers but then as you did so rightly state. [/B]

This is kind of funny coming from someone who thinks it is alright to mock not only Christians but the God they worship. Perhaps if you were more respectfull you would be treated more respectfully. I find that in most fora you reap what you sow.

Originally posted by Frogger
This is kind of funny coming from someone who thinks it is alright to mock not only Christians but the God they worship. Perhaps if you were more respectfull you would be treated more respectfully. I find that in most fora you reap what you sow. Exactly. Not all christians are meak and mild. I figure God knows my intentions behind everything and forgives my weaknesses. I may have a problem with attacking once i feel its warranted, but if thats my biggest flaw, im doing ok.


Also, Loki is one of the most disrespectful when talking about people of faith and their religion also. So I really dont care what he thinks of my actions and how it relfects on me or my faith.

Perhaps if you were more respectfull you would be treated more respectfully. I find that in most fora you reap what you sow.

More incessant parenting? Oh, wait, Loki loves that sort of thing. Carry on. ;)

Originally posted by Frogger
You are falling into the old misconception that Christians are always good. Nothing could be further from the truth. Christians are fallable human beings with all the behaviors that that entails.

Christians are not perfect. Christians are forgiven their imperfections.

Ok this is steming from what you percieve him to have meant by stating he wasnt a good christian.

I took it to mean he was unable to behave in the way that Christ dictates he should, and was otherwise bad at the practices a christian should undertake.

I didnt take it to mean in the same context, "your a bad person" more that "You a bad carpenter" or "your a bad policeman" etc.

If you truly are allowed to act, do and say anything as a christian then It is even more of a worthless waste of peoples time than I thought.

Originally posted by HaVoK


Yeh because God is a loving sort and you can rape, murder and steal to your hearts content providing you eventually confess your sins.

Being completely unable to rise above petty comments and the like, without snapping back with vicious comments that not only upset the intended receipent but mostly every other person who reads it is your weakness.

Originally posted by HaVoK
[BIAlso, Loki is one of the most disrespectful when talking about people of faith and their religion also. So I really dont care what he thinks of my actions and how it relfects on me or my faith.

You see its only to those who have really no understanding about their religion that rile me. I had respect for the Jehovah when he came over, I have respect for Sal and there are a couple of other christian posters who i respect. Its the ones like You, StopandThink, Frodo, JereJere that are so anal as to mock the very religion you stand for without trying. True i really do detest the religion and yes i should be more tactful in my approach but to be honest, when dealing with you i feel much the same way you feel about me.

Originally posted by Napsterbater
More incessant parenting? Oh, wait, Loki loves that sort of thing. Carry on. ;)

lol

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Ok this is steming from what you percieve him to have meant by stating he wasnt a good christian.

I took it to mean he was unable to behave in the way that Christ dictates he should, and was otherwise bad at the practices a christian should undertake.



No Christian is able to behave in the way that Christ dictates he should. That is why Jesus came to earth, to die so that our sins are forgiven. The New Testament supercedes the Old Testament where men could somehow merit or earn their way into heaven.

We enter the kingdom of God, not because of what we do but in spite of what we do.

Originally posted by Frogger
No Christian is able to behave in the way that Christ dictates he should. That is why Jesus came to earth, to die so that our sins are forgiven. The New Testament supercedes the Old Testament where men could somehow merit or earn their way into heaven.

I was under the impression that alot of christians made a consious effort to behave in the way christ dictated? Your wording says to me that Christians arnt capable of anything Christ dictated and thus are utterly sinful and so needed his death to save them? I could understand a Christian commiting a few sins, but to be utterly incapable of following any of the ways Christ dictates seems a little strong?

Also can you quote the passage in the new testament where it tells you to ignore the old one. Ive no doubt its there however I'd like to know the passage please.

Originally posted by Frogger

We enter the kingdom of God, not because of what we do but in spite of what we do.

Im not sure what you think "in spite of" means but I just took your sentence to mean, You enter the kingdom of heaven regardless of what you do? I figure thats not what you mean so can you please explain.

I was under the impression that alot of christians made a consious effort to behave in the way christ dictated? Your wording says to me that Christians arnt capable of anything Christ dictated and thus are utterly sinful and so needed his death to save them? I could understand a Christian commiting a few sins, but to be utterly incapable of following any of the ways Christ dictates seems a little strong?


Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. It is not that we aren't capable of following any of the dictates of Jesus. It is that we are incapable of leading a life perfect enough to earn heaven. Heaven is a gift, not something we can earn.

Also can you quote the passage in the new testament where it tells you to ignore the old one. Ive no doubt its there however I'd like to know the passage please.


I have no doubt I could find more than one passage dealing with the fact that the New Testament supercedes the Old but I am just not willing to take the time to do the searching at this time. You will just have to take my word for it. (or not)

Im not sure what you think "in spite of" means but I just took your sentence to mean, You enter the kingdom of heaven regardless of what you do? I figure thats not what you mean so can you please explain.


Not regardless of what you do but since all men are sinners it is in spite of what we do. Since all men are sinners and unable to attain the kingdom of heaven on our own, we are promised that if we truely repent of our sins and ask forgiveness of them we will go to heaven. This is not some legalistic escape clause though. You can't just go on through life sinning and then on your death bed say, "Oh, by the way, God, I'm sorry." You have to truely repent and I don't think anyone who spent his life willfully sinning could truely repent and ask forgiveness.

Originally posted by Frogger
Heaven is a gift, not something we can earn.

I honestly believed it was through a devoution to Christ and "good works" that one earned his way to heaven. If its a gift then it could just as well be that God happens to like you and thus has allowed you into heaven. It doesnt appear to hold any releveance to the teachings and words of Christ asking people to believe in him?

Havok, Jerejere, other christions what are your views on this, do you think that you have to earn your way into Heaven or is it a gift from God.




Originally posted by Frogger
I have no doubt I could find more than one passage dealing with the fact that the New Testament supercedes the Old but I am just not willing to take the time to do the searching at this time. You will just have to take my word for it. (or not)


Ill have to take your word for it as I have no more will to factually dispute it as you have to prove it, however there are a vast vast number of christians whom profess to follow alot of things mentioned in the old testament and tell that those who dont arnt true christians, (this is from the channel GOD2 so its slightly skewed but still they do call themselfs christians) Do you feel that these are true christians?

What Im getting at is that during the time of the Old testament all christians would have been following that. Then come the new testament and they are suddenly told everything they are following is wrong. Are they not corrent to simply turn round and say "ughh no, i think youll find we are correct and you are wrong"?

Do you favour the New because the Old was so much more violent and the GOD in the old was of a very different nature to the New?

Originally posted by Frogger
and I don't think anyone who spent his life willfully sinning could truely repent and ask forgiveness. To be fair at that final few minutes before death they probably would. You are confronted with the sudden option of A) deny God and face nothing or a Torment in Hell, or B) accept God and face nothng or a life in Heaven. At that situation surely there would be a number of them who would change?

Lokideviluk,

There are two major views of Christianity, the Jamesian and the Pauline. The Jamesian view holds that good works are necessary in order to get to heaven. They view it as almost a contract with God, do so many good works and you earn so many points toward the entrance fee.

The Pauline view is that while being a Christian will make you want to do good deeds they are not necessary to go to heaven. We go to heaven because Christ has died and expiated our sins. In my opinion, this makes more sense since it would be impossible for anyone to lead so blameless a life as to earn heaven on their own.

I believe that anyone who believes in the Triune God is a true Christian. While there are different sects within Christianity, sects sometimes having quite divergent views, all who believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are Christians.

My wife is Roman Catholic and I am Lutheran. She and I believe somewhat differently. She believes in the intercession of Saints. I do not. She believes the Pope is infallible when speaking ex cathedra, I do not. She believes in taking the Host only, during communion. I believe in partaking of the Lord's Supper in two parts. We both believe that Jesus is the son of God, sent down by the Holy Spirit. That is the important thing to believe, not the rest of it. We are both true Christians though we disagree on certain aspects of church doctrine.

Wow, it's been a fairly long time since I've posted in Chat Central, and upon reading this thread, I find myself compelled to do so. In the vein of the Jesus fish mockery, I have no problem with poking fun at organized religion because, well, I think it's a fucking joke. What I have a problem with is when people are rude to others based on individual faith (In my opinion, it's always personal, and should be treated as such). For example, you'll never know if your girlfriend truly loves you, but you have faith in her character anyway. Faith, as I view it, is the acceptance and belief in an efficacious, good, or beneficial quality in someone or something. Of course, it's all relative to the person in question, and what they value (love, God, morality, a higher power, etc.) shouldn't be judged by ANYONE OTHER than the person involved. That's not to say that you can't question their motives, but being a cock about it because you lack the same vision isn't cool, nor is it appropriate.

Jere Jere on the other hand....well, he's just an idiot. ;)

Well, as long as we are describing our belief systems here, here goes with mine.

I believe in a good force that I call the Flying Spaghetti monster.

I believe that Prince Linguini represents this force as an entity on earth. Why? Because he told people to salt their noodle water so that the boiling point of water is raised and the noodles will be tastier. What kind of god does THIS? He feeds the world, sick and poor, providing for everybody. He did not threaten people.

He called Mr. Rice "the prince of this earth. " He KNEW the power of the Dark Side!

I guess you could call me a half-cooked noodle-phile. I believe in some of the ramen cookbook--not all. I question the story of Angel Hair and Farfalle, Prego, Ichiban and the seasoning packets. I think He created us with a brain and understands it's only human to undercook our noodles.

I'm not a churchgoer. Reason--I don't like being told what to do, how to prepare my dinner. I don't recall Prince Linguini ordering people around. I've attended many noodle clubs-Italian and Asian, but I'd call myself more Asian than Italian, which strikes me as a cult and tries to dictate how I eat my dinner. I was raised on Rice. (the horror!) My parents weren't sauce snobs and never forced it on us. My grandma took us to Noodle school. When I was a teen-ager, I stopped going. It seemed boring and they told people what to do too much.

Since then I've formed my own recipes. Again--I don't like being told what to do. --like, I should expose my secret recipes, or not eat meat on Friday, or that certain people don't deserve any pasta.

I go by His Noodliness's teachings alone. So much of what he taught has been twisted by men. (Spiral macaroni, anyone?) I believe he was kind, that he understood how difficult it is to make the perfect pasta dish.

And I believe what he said to the thieves on the cross:

First thief: "What kind of god ARE you? Save yourself, and save us!!"

Second thief: "Leave him alone. We deserve our punishment. But this man has done nothing wrong. (to Prince Linguini) "Remember me , Master, when you come into your kingdom."

Prince Linguini: "Truly I say unto you, today you will be with me in Paradise, and drink all the beer you want, and have all the strippers you could ever desire."

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lokideviluk
[B]I honestly believed it was through a devoution to Christ and "good works" that one earned his way to heaven



This confuses me also. My personal opinion on this is that God and Jesus just wants you to try to be a good person. this is enough...this is something Catholics and Protestants have argued about for centuries--justification by faith, or justification by good works.
Seems to me that BOTH are good things.

If you have faith you will try to do good works but it is the faith, not the good works that will get you into heaven.

Nappy,

When you steal someone else's idea and post it as your own you should at least place it in quotes. The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is old hat.

When you steal someone else's idea and post it as your own you should at least place it in quotes. The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is old hat.

From here on out, I want you to put Jesus and God in quotes. If you want old hat, try two thousand years.

I can't stand any sort of stick of bumper attachment on cars but this seems pretty funny.