I'm not religious in the least, but if this guy ran for president while he was 20 years younger, I'd be happy to vote for him. Is it just me, or do words of wisdom and compassion come out of the Pope's mouth everytime he speaks? This man deserves a lot more respect than he gets.

Well, I admittedly haven't researched the topic, but it seems everytime he speaks, I nod and think "There's someone who's out to do some good." Examples that come to mind include his speaking out against war, no matter who's involved, his vindication of Galileo, his apology for the crusades, and his stances against abortion and female priests desipte the unpopularity of such stances. With just those examples, he demonstrates the ability to "stick to his guns" (as us "rednecks" say) in the face of unpopular response, to admit when his organization has made a mistake, and to further the fundamental aims of Christianity (Spreading love and peace). Unfortunately, it seems he's too senile to get anything REALLY accomplished these days, but he behaves with more reason and scruples than I've seen from any other leaders today.

Though I disagree with him on religious topics (women priests) and think he has been supporting very conservatives parts of the catholic church (the Opus dei), I have to admit he deserves respect for many positions, against war today, or in support of a less materialistic world in many occasions. He has never spared his energy to build a better world.
About his senility, don't get fooled by the pictures. He suffers from Parkinson, and looks very tired. But that does not affect his ability to reason, and, more important; he still has an unquestioned leadership upon the Catholic church, which influence in the world has proven to be very important.

Is he still alive? - I think he died quite a few years back.

Watch him on TV - they wheel him out, put a staff in his hand but he is always slumped over like a dead body - he never moves & he looks like he was embalmed - there is not an ounce of color in him.

;)

The Pope is alive. If nothing else, you would have remembered the funeral, which would have been a major media event. There's something like 2 billion Catholics planet wide, and the Pope carries major status the world over. He's weak as a kitten, but filled with resolve.

Leper, if you voted for him, you would regret it. He may be against the war, but he is not a pinko. Plus, he forms his opinions based on religion, and we can't have that now can we?

I'm not sure what a "pinko" is, but I don't care HOW someone forms their opinions nearly as much as WHAT the opinions are.

"Pinko" is Dave's favorite word. It's a derogatory term for a liberal. He has liberalphobia. ;)

pinko
SYLLABICATION: pink·o
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: pngk KEY
NOUN: Inflected forms: pl. pink·os
Slang A person who holds moderately leftist political views; a pink.

Thanks es.

Originally posted by DrewM
Is he still alive? - I think he died quite a few years back.

Watch him on TV - they wheel him out, put a staff in his hand but he is always slumped over like a dead body - he never moves & he looks like he was embalmed - there is not an ounce of color in him.

;)

Drew, we are not talking about Reagan. :p

I was joking about the Pope being dead.

Pinko came from Communist, back in yesteryear we used to call the Russians commiepinko's(sp). They in turn would call us capitalist pigs

As far as the Pope goes he does deserve respect for the things he as acomplished in his life. As far as voting for a person just because they believe in ONE thing that you do that would not be very smart.

What about those chemical sites found in Iraq over this past weekend I quess the U.S. wasn't so stupid after all. I'm sure the French will have something stupid to say about them,( Like just because he had them doesn't mean he is going to use them) France and Germany It's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

Originally posted by astrapol2
Though I disagree with him on religious topics (women priests) and think he has been supporting very conservatives parts of the catholic church (the Opus dei), I have to admit he deserves respect for many positions, against war today, or in support of a less materialistic world in many occasions. He has never spared his energy to build a better world.
About his senility, don't get fooled by the pictures. He suffers from Parkinson, and looks very tired. But that does not affect his ability to reason, and, more important; he still has an unquestioned leadership upon the Catholic church, which influence in the world has proven to be very important.

I agree with you astra that women priests that should be allowed, but the fact that he stands for this unpopular position is more important to me in that he's not out to win a popularity contest, which is what most people in the public eye seem to be attempting. I may not support all of his positions, but I'm convinced that he stands for what he believes, is constantly trying to do the right thing, and acts with wisdom and intelligence.

Sure. And you also have to take into account the fact that he doesn't have to be reelected every 4 years ! The catholic church, while defending mostly humane and positive values, is not a democratic organization.
Plus there are also lots of political conflicts within the catholic church. As all big and powerful organizations, it is a harsh place where various tendancies and very ambitious people fight for power.
For years, JPII has been relying on the most right-wind and conservative parts of the church, including the infamous Opus Dei, to strengthen his power. He has been weakening all the progressive and more intellectual parts of the church, like the Jesuits.

It seems that now, maybe because of his success in getting rid of communism and of his growing concern for the bad side of capitalism, he his not supporting the Opus Dei as much as before. But, on the dogmatic aspects, he is still very conservative. If course this represents his personal belief, but also a way of keeping his influence on the church.
If he allowed priests to get married, for example, these guys would not be as dependant on the church as they are now, financially and psychologically. The churche could notkeep its very hierarchical structure for long.

The Roman Catholics have a big membership so it makes them look mainstream.

They believe in some wacko stuff & up until recently they didn't seem to have much problem with their employee's abusing hundreds of young boys.

The Pope is supposed to say stuff like "Peace" - I have little respect for him or the cult he represents.

Originally posted by astrapol2
Sure. And you also have to take into account the fact that he doesn't have to be reelected every 4 years ! The catholic church, while defending mostly humane and positive values, is not a democratic organization.
Plus there are also lots of political conflicts within the catholic church. As all big and powerful organizations, it is a harsh place where various tendancies and very ambitious people fight for power.
For years, JPII has been relying on the most right-wind and conservative parts of the church, including the infamous Opus Dei, to strengthen his power. He has been weakening all the progressive and more intellectual parts of the church, like the Jesuits.

It seems that now, maybe because of his success in getting rid of communism and of his growing concern for the bad side of capitalism, he his not supporting the Opus Dei as much as before. But, on the dogmatic aspects, he is still very conservative. If course this represents his personal belief, but also a way of keeping his influence on the church.
If he allowed priests to get married, for example, these guys would not be as dependant on the church as they are now, financially and psychologically. The churche could notkeep its very hierarchical structure for long.

Yeah, the fact that the Church is not democratic is a good point, in that it allows him to take stances that aren't necessarily popular without having to answer to the people.

I guess that's one unfortunate side effect of a democracy, you get leaders who are popular, but not necessarily capable. I mean, look at Dubya (that's a nickname for Bush) He's done nothing but ride daddy's coattails through life. And our alternate (Democratic) candidate wasn't a whole lot better. Every election (in the U.S. at least) seems like a choice of the lesser of two evils.

Drew-

Referring to Catholicism as a "cult" is not only flat-out wrong, but a little extreme, don't you think? Pointing to the few widely-publicized incidents of child molestation as an example of what's wrong with the church is hardly a good way to evaluate Catholicism as a whole. As you say, the church has a large membership. When an organization has a large membership like the Catholic church, you will always be able to find some unscrupulous people in the bunch. Not to mention, not only does the church expressly forbid such activity, I believe it goes a long way toward inhibiting such activity worldwide. Liking the way they do it or not, you have to admit Catholics promote positive values far more than negative values in today's society. You can hardly blame the Pope for the sexual misconduct of a few priests in the states any more than you can blame Bush for the sexual misconduct of a few soldiers in Okinawa.

The difference is - when Soldiers act out of line in Okinawa they go to jail or are fined. In the RC church - when Priests abuse young boys their senior managers sweep it under the rug and move them to a new church where they can abuse a fresh bunch of young kids. All this done with the full knowledge & understanding of the RC church. They think they are above the law & only after huge media exposure have they done anything about it. The Pope is the CEO of the RC church - so he is accountable. Not only should the Priests involved go to jail - but every single senior priest/bishop that knew about abuses and didn't contact the authorities should get 20 to life in the state Pen too - for aiding and facilitating the abuse of minors. Who the hell do these people think they are?

Of course - the RC church is filled with good people doing good things, but they have many things in common with Cults

- They hold attention through fear & guilt
- Strange beliefs that are non biblical (praying to saints, purgutory)

The only main difference between a cult and a 'non-cult' is the number of members and level of public acceptance of what is normal.

The RC church has got to go down as one of the most corrupt and bigoted organizations ever created in the history of mankind.

Seems you've pretty much described all of the major religions. Guilt is a major factor in each that I'm aware of. Each is pretty weird in their own way. Remember Jim & Tammy? What about the folks that use rattlesnakes in their services? No shortage of strange when you're discussing religion. Yeah, the RC heirarchy really left themselves wide open on this latest scandal. And, with a 2000+ year history, there's bound to be more than a few screw-ups.