here is some of my shite.

tired of the hypocracy of civivlization? same ol politics just to elect the same ol' boys? tired ol' excuses as the rich get richer and the poor get poorer?

walk away. how long can the system survive if you participate in it? "you decide your own level of involvement. "

get out of your car and walk, do not go into debt, live simply as possible.

YOU are completely responsible for civilization to continue status quo on the level of how you participate in it.

for every gallon of gas you buy, you contribute to the rich man's war.

we can bludgeon ourselves into reality or we can do this thoughtfully.

k.i.s.s.- keep it simple stupid.

Good ideas for many.

But it's kind hard NOT to get into debt when you have kids in college and/or property with skyrocketing property taxes, (one of my major pet peeves.)

At least this is secured debt.

What worries me is how so many frivolously use their credit cards to buy things they cannot afford. Like my daughter--she has an astounding credit card balance, yet nothing to show for it except meals out (already eaten) or shoes that she doesn't wear. Etc.

Like any government, any entity that lives beyond their means will pay a big price in the end.

Yup living outside of the system is the way to go.

I wanna build an Earth Ship one of these days. Completely off the grid.

On the whole Politics BS I was thinking it would be great to start a new third party. The "None Of The Above" party. They will never take office even if elected. It would just be a simple way to prove how tired everyone is of the bullshit.

NOTA (as a choice, not a party) is on the ballot in Nevada in a non-binding basis. In actualy use if NOTA ever won they would have to be a special election within the next 90 days.

since the system is run by the rich and the rich need you for it to function, why not walk away, or cut back? no car. walk or take mass transit. never go into debt. nothing is worth going into debt over.

i'd love to see a day where people world wide just walk away. at least for 24 hours. all at the same time. starting at midnight greenwich time. wherever you are findout what time it will be for you then.

how about oct. 9th? and those getting the message late. who ever is the last to go, turn the lights out as you leave, please. if you can do ONE day. why not 4? what's wrong with that. it won't kill you. don't buy anything, don't go anywhere except for walkabout. don't even turn on the lights in your house.

i'll see you after the 12th.

Originally posted by ivan
tired of the hypocracy of civivlization?

yep

same ol politics just to elect the same ol' boys? tired ol' excuses as the rich get richer and the poor get poorer?

the same ol' boys get elected because they have the money and the money feeds the money. keep the money keep the power.

walk away. how long can the system survive if you participate in it? "you decide your own level of involvement. "

this sounds great but most of us have to eat pay taxes go to work heat the house have children need clothing etc etc etc.... walking away would be great IF we didn't need to survive.



get out of your car and walk, do not go into debt, live simply as possible.

what about those that work 10-20-30-40 miles from work, kind of a long walk? I agree with the dept to a point but sometimes we don't have a choice, medical, fuel bill, taxes etc...

YOU are completely responsible for civilization to continue status quo on the level of how you participate in it.

hmmmmmmm, do you really think so, or has society forced a way of life on the people?

for every gallon of gas you buy, you contribute to the rich man's war.

this is correct but what happens when the need outweighs the cause? some folks don't have a choice because of how things work???

I understand what your beef is but do you really think most of the people will just stop? unless all of us stick together nothing will happen. I have seen how folks stick together{union strike} when the sh** hits the fan, quess what they don't.

Originally posted by mad dog
yep



the same ol' boys get elected because they have the money and the money feeds the money. keep the money keep the power.



this sounds great but most of us have to eat pay taxes go to work heat the house have children need clothing etc etc etc.... walking away would be great IF we didn't need to survive.





what about those that work 10-20-30-40 miles from work, kind of a long walk? I agree with the dept to a point but sometimes we don't have a choice, medical, fuel bill, taxes etc...



hmmmmmmm, do you really think so, or has society forced a way of life on the people?



this is correct but what happens when the need outweighs the cause? some folks don't have a choice because of how things work???

I understand what your beef is but do you really think most of the people will just stop? unless all of us stick together nothing will happen. I have seen how folks stick together{union strike} when the sh** hits the fan, quess what they don't.


you have given every excuse for why it won't work.

all of it based on fear.

true peace can not be acheived as long as violence is used.

share. that's what will get you through.

you can't take 24 hours off at any given time? are you really that afraid?

I sippose one day wouldn't hurt.
what the heck--I'm game!:)

Originally posted by rendova
I sippose one day wouldn't hurt.
what the heck--I'm game!:)

alriiiiiiight.


here's something i'm trying to get my wife to understand.

our car gets 25 miles to the gallon. we put a minimum of 20,000 miles on the car a year with all the driving we do just for work and her schooling. divide those two numbers and multiply the answer by $3.00 a gallon. i don't see too many people driving in the future. do you?

There's already the "buy nothing day" on the eve of Thanksgiving.

Originally posted by ivan
alriiiiiiight.


here's something i'm trying to get my wife to understand.

our car gets 25 miles to the gallon. we put a minimum of 20,000 miles on the car a year with all the driving we do just for work and her schooling. divide those two numbers and multiply the answer by $3.00 a gallon. i don't see too many people driving in the future. do you?
$2400. That's really not that much money. People spend more on food. I don't see too many people eating in the future. Do you?

Originally posted by ivan
alriiiiiiight.


here's something i'm trying to get my wife to understand.

our car gets 25 miles to the gallon. we put a minimum of 20,000 miles on the car a year with all the driving we do just for work and her schooling. divide those two numbers and multiply the answer by $3.00 a gallon. i don't see too many people driving in the future. do you?

The price of gas doesn't worry me as much as how much it's going to cost people to heat their homes this winter.
I can see many older folks and those on fixed incomes literally freezing to death because they won't be able to afford this cost--all thanks to speculation and price gouging.

it is to people who are on a fixed income, minimum slave wages especially at part time.

i'll walk when i can. it saves me money, is better for the environment, my health, and could possibly save me a lot in medical expenses in the future.

Originally posted by ivan
it is to people who are on a fixed income, minimum slave wages especially at part time.
Minimum wage isn't meant to be a living wage. Christ. And it's not hard to get a job that pays above minimum wage...I have one, jeez.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Minimum wage isn't meant to be a living wage. Christ. And it's not hard to get a job that pays above minimum wage...I have one, jeez.


I can do it, so anyone else can do it. Nice in theory. I imagine since you have an education and access to a computer you are better off than 2/3 of workers seeking employment.

I imagine since you have an education

He has yet to graduate high school...and yet he manages to find a job above minimum wage to raise money for himself.

I've heard it said that the number one health problem among those in poverty is obesity. Those numbers on gas prices (for Ivan and his wife) will decline eventually when this spike in prices ends, as it did with Carter. And the lowering of other allowances such as food will be good to our grotesque public. :D :D :D

(*shakes head in shame at the stupidity of the past statement*).
But, i do not see these gas prices as a very big hindrance and change to much. ;)

Perhaps it was a fallacy to assume that you were educated. I will give you that. I am not a bleeding heart liberal, actually I am quite the contrary. :)

I can do it, so anyone else can do it. Nice in theory.

People as young as 15 are hired by various businesses and restaurants.
This is America, there is always going to be some sort of position somewhere, and if there isn't...make one. That's how economically free we are. :D

I imagine since you have an education and access to a computer you are better off than 2/3 of workers seeking employment.

Education is provided for the youth of this country through taxes that the government redistributes, and public libraries serve as one example where access to a computer is free of charge to many. ;)

Minimum wage isn't meant to be a living wage.

Amen.

Originally posted by Evakian
I can do it, so anyone else can do it. Nice in theory.

People as young as 15 are hired by various businesses and restaurants.
This is America, there is always going to be some sort of position somewhere, and if there isn't...make one. That's how economically free we are. :D

Yes, darling being the daughter of two legal immigrants to this country who worked two jobs each so that we could have an education with a religious upbringing, I am all to familiiar with the opportunities that this country has.

I imagine since you have an education and access to a computer you are better off than 2/3 of workers seeking employment.


My experiences in rural America, are such that the opportunities (although not absent) are not as numerous as those in the city.

Education is provided for the youth of this country through taxes that the government redistributes, and public libraries serve as one example where access to a computer is free of charge to many. ;)

Minimum wage isn't meant to be a living wage.

Amen.


I do not at all believe that your race destins you to a life of poverty. We must admit however, that many of us have more advantages than others. Nothing wrong with that. We all have to overcome something, or perhaps our grandparents did it for us.

Let's just not say that all is equal.

Evakian, I would be willing to bet that we are closer on more issues than we are far apart.

:)

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Minimum wage isn't meant to be a living wage. Christ. And it's not hard to get a job that pays above minimum wage...I have one, jeez.

i HAVE a job over minimum slave jackass.
i have some compassion for my fellow human being who can not get a higher paying job. there are areas, like where i live, that jobs that pay well are very far and few between. not everyone is privilidged like yourself. and then there are people who are retired, on a LOW fixed income, and those who are disabled on a LOW fixed income.

Originally posted by ivan
i HAVE a job over minimum slave jackass.
I neither said nor implied you didn't.
i have some compassion for my fellow human being who can not get a higher paying job. there are areas, like where i live, that jobs that pay well are very far and few between. not everyone is privilidged like yourself. and then there are people who are retired, on a LOW fixed income, and those who are disabled on a LOW fixed income.
I think that retired people living only on SS are idiots who should have saved while they were working. Disabled people, I believe, receive all sorts of subsidies. And finally, if you have a low-paying job in an area where there aren't many good jobs, guess what? Time to move...

Originally posted by ivan
you have given every excuse for why it won't work.

all of it based on fear.

I disagree it is not based on fear in is based on the reality of living in this country. I am a realist, I try not to say we can't do something based on an emotion, I base it on who will show up and who won't. You say lets show these fat heads by not buying gas for one day. This is a good idea and would get attention if even 25% of Americans did it, but I would bet only 1% might???

true peace can not be acheived as long as violence is used.

This is true only to a point, I don't think Hitler or some of the worlds other power monster would have been tamed with a rose and candy :)

share. that's what will get you through.

I do this all the time, but just because I will share or help a person in need does not mean the facist pigs running this country will give me a break on my taxes, or lower my fuel prices.

you can't take 24 hours off at any given time? are you really that afraid?

I stand my ground all the time I have completely changed my life style also, this does not mean I will change the greed? The average temp of my house for the past 3 weeks has been 55 degrees{inside, makes for a cold shower:) } Do you think I have even effected my oil supplier? I highly doubt it because the oil companys know sooner or later I will have to turn the furnace on. Now you say lets take a day off from driving, fine but who does it really effect in the long run? Us, we have to use vacation time or sick time, which is cheaper going to work or missing a days worth of pay? The reality{not fear} is that a few of us not showing up for work won't make one bit of difference.

With all of this said I still feel that I know how you feel and I feel the same way, but what can we truely do that would make a difference????? Do you think this country will see a revolution in the near future? Or do you think Americans will just keep on pluging along only caring about the "me factor"? I feel most Americans don't give 2 sh**s about whats going on unless it comes into there little personal world.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
think that retired people living only on SS are idiots who should have saved while they were working.

sometimes sh** happens it does not make someone an idiot.

Disabled people, I believe, receive all sorts of subsidies.

Hmmmmm you believe interesting, I know many disabled that don't get sh**. Now I believe in a flying tooth fairy so it must be true. :roll eyes:

And finally, if you have a low-paying job in an area where there aren't many good jobs, guess what? Time to move...

Thats right, because life is not about trying to live where you'll be happy its about greed, well put.

I for one am not going to shut down my life for twenty four hours. I am going to continue driving my car no matter what the price of gas. I am going to continue heating my house to a comfortable level. I am going to continue eating the food I like. I am going to continue buying clothing. I am even going to continue going to the movies, playing golf at least once a week, driving to Florida for the winter.

I worked hard to get where I am in life; a point where I am comfortable with enough money to afford a decent life style. I got where I am by finishing high school and then entering the service so that I could go to college under the G.I. Bill. I did not get a girl pregnant out of wedlock. I got a job and stuck to it for over thirty years, continuing my education so as to better my pay.

The only things people have to do to keep from being abjectly poor are; complete high school, not have a child out of wedlock and get and keep a job, any job. If you quit school, have kids without marriage, jump from job to job or instead of getting a job depend on welfare, you are making your own bed and you will have to lie in it.

My parents instilled a strong work ethic in me and I have done the same with my children. Every member of my family believes in a good education, a strong marriage, hard work, and in saving from a young age.

I realize that there are people who are poor because of circumstances beyond their control and I sympathize with them. I will help them in any way possible. However, I feel no sympathy for those who are poor because of their actions. If you quit school because you don't like it or because you want to get a pissant job so you can buy a flashy car, if you have two or three kids out of wedlock that you expect the State to support, if you sit on your ass at home instead of getting a job, or if you constantly lose jobs because you can't get to work on time, take too much time off, or are a slacker, I have very little sympathy for you.

Those who want to lessen their lifestyles so support these slackers feel free to do so. I, for one have worked hard all my life and will now enjoy the fruits of my labor with joy and no feelings of guilt.

Frogger, I get your point on the work hard and move on with life but you really lose me on the baby out of wedlock? There are folks that have done great for themselfs and have children without hearing wedding bells.

Originally posted by mad dog
Frogger, I get your point on the work hard and move on with life but you really lose me on the baby out of wedlock? There are folks that have done great for themselfs and have children without hearing wedding bells.


But have they "done great" for their children???

Let's not split hairs. It is ideal for children to be born through a committed relationship. yes, that can be achieved without marriage, but a child's best interests are served when raised with two parents who are willing to commit.

Originally posted by mad dog
sometimes sh** happens it does not make someone an idiot.
You're right. That's life. Why should the government bail that person out?
Hmmmmm you believe interesting, I know many disabled that don't get sh**. Now I believe in a flying tooth fairy so it must be true. :roll eyes:
Has anyone ever told you that you're a very charming person? No? Oh, well...it's not like this is an example of why or anything.
Thats right, because life is not about trying to live where you'll be happy its about greed, well put.
Well, if you can't have a good job where you're happy, stop whining about it and make a choice.

Originally posted by Frogger
The only things people have to do to keep from being abjectly poor are; complete high school, not have a child out of wedlock and get and keep a job, any job.

I can understand about finishing high school, but there are plenty of married people who are poor, and not all the jobs out there pay as well as others.

Originally posted by Divalatina
But have they "done great" for their children???

sure why wouldn't they have, they give it what it needs and plenty of love.

Let's not split hairs. It is ideal for children to be born through a committed relationship. yes, that can be achieved without marriage, but a child's best interests are served when raised with two parents who are willing to commit.

I understand what you are saying it would be better to have 2 loving parents instead of one. BUT would it be better to have 2 parents hooked on drugs instead of one that lives a good life? My point was that one good parent can be better then a room full of a-holes. Having a child out of wedlock does not mean that things will go bad.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
You're right. That's life. Why should the government bail that person out?

let me ask is it better to help someone that atleast tried to make a good life for themselfs, or is it better to help a scum bag? We give 15000 a yr to a person on SS, we give a criminal in jail 35000+ a yr {averages}. If someone pays into the system shouldn't that money go back to them or should we give the money to someone that abused the system?

Has anyone ever told you that you're a very charming person? No? Oh, well...it's not like this is an example of why or anything.

Borg I made that statement because you made it sound like the disabled in this country are well taken care off with no worrys{sorry if I miss understood}. I believe you knew the real answer before you posted your statement????? Oh, the answer to your question is yes. I am not on this thread to be charming if you want charm then you should probably find a different thread?

Well, if you can't have a good job where you're happy, stop whining about it and make a choice.

I will whine about this topic American geed is running this country more and more every day. Maybe when you get a little older you will find out everything is not about money???? I make enough to be happy but that does not mean I will agree when the price of gas reaches $3-5-7+ per gallon. I do not have to be happy when insurance companys are robbing us blind with the help of goverment laws. example try putting a car on the road in NY without insurance, can't be done. Now I have been driving for more then 20+ yrs{this includes owning my own tractor trailor} and never once needed to use insurance, but for some reason if I want to own a car I will have to pay outrageous payments. Why because this country is living on greed!!!!!!!!!!!

If your happy with fascism then by all means go with it, but I believe in a fair deal, and a free country. If someone wants to be rich and own a chair that looks like a turd, good for them. What I don't like is when greed starts to control others lives. America needs to wake the F up and smell the coffee?????

I know several people who are raising kids by themselves, either through their own choice, or unfortunate circumstances beyond their control.

These people are far from rich, yet they seem contented and the kids at least happy and well taken care of--by that I mean, there's a person who loves them.

I have said many times, it is better to be alone, poor, and contented, then rich and miserable. Better to be on your own than stuck with a bum/drug addict/drunk/abusive oaf. And the kids are certainly better off as there's not a nogoodnik around yelling at them or pushing them to be something they don't want to be/can't be.

Things I've seen often with many of the "better-off."

While it is possible for a woman who bears a child out of wedlock to rear the child on her own, or with the assistance of the father, it is not usual. What usually occurs is, the man leaves or refuses to acknowledge the child, the woman goes on welfare and a cycle of welfare dependency either begins or continues.

As for getting and keeping a job, I did not say it would make you rich, just keep you from being abjectly poor. There is a difference between being poor and being abjectly poor. Being poor is a value judgement while being abjectly poor means you cannot afford the necessities of life. As for people affording more than the necessitities of life, those things considered niceties, it is not my responsibility to see that they get them any more than it is my wealthy neighbor's responsibility to see that I get a Lexus or plasma t.v..

Well said, Frogger.

Originally posted by rendova
I know several people who are raising kids by themselves, either through their own choice, or unfortunate circumstances beyond their control.

These people are far from rich, yet they seem contented and the kids at least happy and well taken care of--by that I mean, there's a person who loves them.

I have said many times, it is better to be alone, poor, and contented, then rich and miserable. Better to be on your own than stuck with a bum/drug addict/drunk/abusive oaf. And the kids are certainly better off as there's not a nogoodnik around yelling at them or pushing them to be something they don't want to be/can't be.

Things I've seen often with many of the "better-off."

I may be wrong, but i am appauled at this for no reason other than the fact you seem to aim this blame solely at the man. A mother can be abusive and mistreat the children also, perhaps not so physically oriented, but nonetheless.

Children were not meant to be raised by just one person, the differing, basic inherent traits of males and females provide for a combination of the Yin and Yang qualities of humans that can build a parent. No child should be left with a mother, and on the other hand, no child should be left without a father. Generally speaking of the ideal family situation, the woman would raise the children with the love and motherly care they need, taking care of their manners, grooming, and just being a motherly figure that they can confide in. The masculine side of the parent provides for the family, gives discpline, and uses the characteristic leadership abilities to lead the group. The children have both emotional security and can be taken care of in the physical sense as well, and they are able to develop certain traits to help them afford the insufferable elements of life.

Now, that may have been an obvious statement or not, but i believe there is a good, good reason the institution of parentS came into the picture.
I am not against women not being homemakers whatsoever, but it seems like a great gift the man gives his spouse when he deals with the problematic lifestyle of the work world while the mother can stay at home with her adorable little whelps. ;)
This assessment of the family cannot apply to everyone, everywhere, at all times, but can serve and has in the past as a successful one for many, if not most.
-----------------------------------------------

You're right. That's life. Why should the government bail that person out?

ROFL :D
Agreed.
-----------------------------------------------

Good post F, i think we have a good member in him :)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Evakian
I may be wrong, but i am appauled at this for no reason other than the fact you seem to aim this blame solely at the man. A mother can be abusive and mistreat the children also, perhaps not so physically oriented, but nonetheless.

Children were not meant to be raised by just one person, the differing, basic inherent traits of males and females provide for a combination of the Yin and Yang qualities of humans that can build a parent. No child should be left with a mother, and on the other hand, no child should be left without a father. Generally speaking of the ideal family situation, the woman would raise the children with the love and motherly care they need, taking care of their manners, grooming, and just being a motherly figure that they can confide in. The masculine side of the parent provides for the family, gives discpline, and uses the characteristic leadership abilities to lead the group. The children have both emotional security and can be taken care of in the physical sense as well, and they are able to develop certain traits to help them afford the insufferable elements of life.

Now, that may have been an obvious statement or not, but i believe there is a good, good reason the institution of parent[b]S came into the picture.
I am not against women not being homemakers whatsoever, but it seems like a great gift the man gives his spouse when he deals with the problematic lifestyle of the work world while the mother can stay at home with her adorable little whelps. ;)
This assessment of the family cannot apply to everyone, everywhere, at all times, but can serve and has in the past as a successful one for many, if not most.
-----------------------------------------------

Nay, Evak, I never meant to say or even imply that the father is solely to blame in cases of a bad home life. In many cases, it's the mother who's the oaf.

But, I will say again, that I have seen, personally, many many cases of bad households with TWO parents present. It is wrong to assume that, just because a family appears "ideal"-- that is, there are two parents , and there's the white picket fence and dog and 2 cars and all that, that all is well..... Appearances are deceiving, and how many of us know what truly goes on there?

If things are bad, then something needs to be done. Counseling, a separation, a divorce, someone moving out, a murder.
:D

It is wrong to assume that, just because a family appears "ideal"-- that is, there are two parents , and there's the white picket fence and dog and 2 cars and all that, that all is well.....

I never came to such a conclusion, as i mentioned...such situations do not work for everyone, in everyplace, at any time.

If things are bad, then something needs to be done. Counseling, a separation, a divorce, someone moving out, a murder. :D

:rolleyes: ;) Very well, so be it, such things must be done. I'd much prefer that people take to divorce as the very last manner to deal with it though. As for the murder, i'll just discount that. :D

Originally posted by ivan
here is some of my shite.

tired of the hypocracy of civivlization? same ol politics just to elect the same ol' boys? tired ol' excuses as the rich get richer and the poor get poorer?

walk away. how long can the system survive if you participate in it? "you decide your own level of involvement. "

get out of your car and walk, do not go into debt, live simply as possible.

YOU are completely responsible for civilization to continue status quo on the level of how you participate in it.

for every gallon of gas you buy, you contribute to the rich man's war.

we can bludgeon ourselves into reality or we can do this thoughtfully.

k.i.s.s.- keep it simple stupid.

Maybe I'm missing something here????? but if we take 24 hrs of from work is this going to make single parents? Just trying to understand how this topic got so far off?

Originally posted by mad dog
Maybe I'm missing something here????? but if we take 24 hrs of from work is this going to make single parents? Just trying to understand how this topic got so far off?

Hi Madd Dog - I think Ivan is just trying to keep it simple. Where did he say
to take 24 hours off from work?

Newsagent3,

Sorry I quess I should have thrown this in with the other qoute. I was also not saying anything against anyone I was just wondering how we went from Ivans original post to how many parents a kid should have. I see you are knew here welcome aboard, you will find out that alot of topics wonder off onto something else. I was just playing topic police :p :)

Originally posted by ivan
you have given every excuse for why it won't work.

all of it based on fear.

true peace can not be acheived as long as violence is used.

share. that's what will get you through.

you can't take 24 hours off at any given time? are you really that afraid?

Thanks for the reply and the welcome - yes I think that was my second post here. When I was on aol I posted on a coupla boards and I kinda miss the conversation. On "Mad World" board we had a lawyer whose handle was Maddog. He was a very nice, intelligent guy. Oh my! a Lawyer?:confused: