I was wondering what others here thought of the Kennedy family and their influence on our culture and politics.

They seem to inspire strong feelings for or against themselves. They are certainly a political dynasty and food for the tabloids.

WAs JFK truly "King Arthur" and his political reign "Camelot"? Or was he a litlte rich boy, in too deep for a job of that magnitude?

What about his brothers, RFK and Teddy? and their wives? Or Rose and Joseph Kennedy Sr?

Let me go on record as stating that I have somewhat negative feelings towards them as a whole, and extremely negative feelings towards Senator Ted.

Teddy and maybe Joseph are the only ones I have negative feelings toward. I find them interesting not in the tabloid media sense but rather I'm fascinated by the idea of Joseph pushing the family into politics the way he did - mostly because my parents took the opposite tack - do what makes you happy.

I'm leaning toward saying I have somewhat negative feelings about them as a whole. I've seen shows on them, different persons at different times.

I don't like when rich folks get away with things that the ordinary Joe would be sent up the river, if not given the chair, for -- but then, who does? The rich folks? I doubt they all have a party when one of them gets away with a felony but I've wondered how it makes them feel in their conscience if they have one

A lot can be said about them either way. They have certainly had more than their share of family tragedy but some even see that as a curse on them that they deserve.

I found it interesting to read how Rose and Joe Sr. would only paint the front of their house, as that was the only side their neighbors saw...or how Rose would frequently slap or hit the hired help, on top of frequently keeping their due payments in arrears.

This struck me as a sign of a family desperately trying to climb their way into society, but failing.

Joe Kennedy was a bootlegger to high society in the 1920's. He desperately wanted to be seen as their equal, although they regarded him as a convenient although disreputable hanger on. He was Catholic and Irish, which was not the way to fit into the WASP old money society in Boston. He ruthlessly suppressed any hint of scandal in the family. The story of Rosemary Kennedy typifies how he hid his families failings. Here is a link to the Washington Post story on her death.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58134-2005Jan8.html

most famous menage-a-trois?

http://www.carpenoctem.tv/cons/monroe.html

I'm not sure I buy the story about the Kennedy brothers and M Monroe. There is not a single shred of hard evidence to link them all; there is nothing except gossip and innuendo. Or a few pictures being taken of them together. This proves nothing.

And the story of how the brothers supposedly "murdered" Monroe to "shut her up" are beyond ridiculous, IMO.

In a way I feel truly sorry for JFK in that he said once--
"I can never remember my mother kissing or hugging me or telling me she loved me...my mom is a nothing."

They are truly a strange, rather frightening , family.

I'm not sure I buy the story about the Kennedy brothers and M Monroe. There is not a single shred of hard evidence to link them all; there is nothing except gossip and innuendo. Or a few pictures being taken of them together. This proves nothing.

Well, now, it just might be a little hard to get real proof of a lot of things that occurred back in the 60s. However, you may, in my opinion, infer things from the information at hand if you wish, even if you don't have access to the FBI tapes, or anything but an old copy of Confidential. I do believe that she had an affair with both of them, or rather - they had an affair with her. I don't think she knew what she was doing half the time, or why she was doing it and you can include her rendition of Happy Birthday Mr. President in that assessment.

...THEN ASSASSINATE their character?




I sumwhat SURPRISED, DAN, that you posted that...




:(





www.jest-ponderin'-is-all.edu




www.not-that-i'd-know-much-about-such.edu





www.not-more-than-more-than-a-decade-of-research-anywayz.edu





www.i-dunno,odder-alwayz-used-ta-say-he-had..."shadows of doubt"-concernin'-them-backyard-oswald-photographs.edu




www.that-got-the-whole-thing-into-question.edu



www.more-research,more-wtf?.edu





Toodles, from yer Odder friend...

...sorry!



Much less than a Meagher response...


Try lookin' up Phillip Melanson?



Or Dr Cyril Wecht?



Or Robert Groden?




Or... or... or... or....





There's a REASON JFK, RFK, and MLK wuz assassinated...





WE would do well not ta do it TOO...




:(

The Kennedy Family exemplify what is worse about the United States and people in general. They are disfunctional people who are where they are simply because of the money their father made by being a rum runner.

Joe Sr. and his wife Rose had their daughter lobotomized and placed in a mental institution because her behavior embarrassed them. She was functional enough to travel to Europe by herself but they claimed she wasn't functional enought to not be lobotomized.

Jack Kennedy was a failure as President. Rather than being a U.S. triumph the Cuba Missile was a U.S. disaster. The Soviets got Kennedy to promise that the U.S. would never invade Cuba in return for their removing their missiles.

Bobby Kennedy accepted Mafia help to get his brother elected and then turned on them, maybe a good thing but something showing a complete lack of honor. If they were so bad, the Kennedys should never have used their assistance in the campaign.

Ted Kennedy is a drunk who goes on binges with his younger relatives. He cheated while in Harvard and, while cheating on his wife allowed a young lady to drown and then tried to pin the blame on someone else.

The various cousins, nieces and nephews get away with rape and behaviors that would land anyone else in jail.

Just in case my feelings about the Kennedys is unclear. I think they are a canker on the body politic of the nation.

JFK was a failure as a president? He may have been overrated, but I wouldn't call him a failure.

And in all fairness to the Kennedys - while it seems there's more misbehavior than in other families, the press is all over them. If a 5th cousin by marriage gets drunk it shows up in the paper.

I think JFK was the last popular president.
There was much sadness when he died.
Jackie was a real first lady. She had class.
These things will not change.

It is interesting just how much more popular JFK was as a President after he died. During his life, he was no more popular than many other Presidents. He did some good things, and made some mistakes. After the assassination, his presidency was mythologized. People remember only the good things, and attribute many things to him that were actually pushed through Congress by Lyndon Johnson.

Lionel,

Just what did Kennedy do that was was above average or even average.

I rate him a failure mainly because of his foreign policy. Domestically he was all potatoes and very little meat.

Kruschev referred to JFK as a "little boy" and had zero respect for him.
Being a hardliner himself, Nikita only respected OTHER hardliners--like Nixon.
Kennedy came ashen-faced out of their Vienna Summit meeting and noted, "He (Nikita) ate me alive."
This was a rather frightening time as I believe Nikita meant every dang word he said. ("I will destroy you...")
What is also disturbing to me are Kennedy's remarks about Eisenhower. In short, Ike was mocked by JFK's inner circle, and also referred to as "frightning"..... I've read that Ike was furious about the lack of air cover during the Bay of Pigs fiasco and Ike once again had to come down hard on Kennedy for his lack of military experience or even wanting to listen to those who had such a thing--like Ike.
I would say that overall his presidency was a roller-coaster and all in all unsuccessful, and that he prob would have lost the election in 1964.

Anyone ever hear the story that JFK was asleep on duty at the time of his PT boat sinking?

My Dad, WWII Navy combat vet, said this story was common knowledge all over the Navy, and was the real reason for my Dad's intense dislike for this fella.

In other words, Dad said he shoulda been shot for that.

Instead, he was made out as a "hero."

His rich dad's money saw to it that the story was not only hushed up, but glamorized!

The story of his being asleep on PT 109 is common knowledge as is the fact that his Profiles In Courage was ghost written.

Jack Kennedy was fluff as was his wife. They looked good but were little more than spoiled rich kids playing at politics.

I was in the army when Kennedy was president and can tell you the men I served with had very little respect for him. They considered him a wimp.

Originally posted by rendova
Anyone ever hear the story that JFK was asleep on duty at the time of his PT boat sinking?

My Dad, WWII Navy combat vet, said this story was common knowledge all over the Navy, and was the real reason for my Dad's intense dislike for this fella.

In other words, Dad said he shoulda been shot for that.

Instead, he was made out as a "hero."

His rich dad's money saw to it that the story was not only hushed up, but glamorized!

I think it is notable that the Navy wanted to court martial him after the PT-109 incident. His father got that quashed. He is the only PT boat commander to have his PT boat run over by a Japanese naval vessel. This occurred because he was ignoring orders to wait in the coral reefs that were at the edges of the channel. Instead, he was parked in the middle of the channel. He was either trying to increase his chances of hitting a Japanese ship, while recklessly disregarding the safety of his own vessel and crew, or he was incompetent. Either way, he should have been court martialed.

Originally posted by Imagineer
I think it is notable that the Navy wanted to court martial him after the PT-109 incident. His father got that quashed. He is the only PT boat commander to have his PT boat run over by a Japanese naval vessel. This occurred because he was ignoring orders to wait in the coral reefs that were at the edges of the channel. Instead, he was parked in the middle of the channel. He was either trying to increase his chances of hitting a Japanese ship, while recklessly disregarding the safety of his own vessel and crew, or he was incompetent. Either way, he should have been court martialed.

Some things should be made public in a big way before we vote but this just shows that all of us have done things we shouldn't. I wonder if John Kerry knows about this?

Court martial Saint John the Kennedy? Surely you jest!

Originally posted by Frogger
The story of his being asleep on PT 109 is common knowledge as is the fact that his Profiles In Courage was ghost written.


I would call these statements "rumors", not "common knowledge".

I didn't find any sites that claim Kennedy was asleep on his boat when it collided, or was rammed, by a Japanese destroyer.

On the ghost writing thing, Wikipedia says this:
Kennedy himself was a senator from Massachusetts from 1952 until he was elected president in 1960. Kennedy, with help from research assistants and the Library of Congress, wrote the book at his bedside during 1954 and 1955 while on leave from the Senate to recover from surgery to treat his troublesome back.

After its release, the book was widely acclaimed and helped Kennedy gather national recognition. The book won the Pulitzer Prize for Biography in 1957 and remains one of the definitive books written on both political courage and the U.S. Senate.

Despite this, questions have been raised about how much of the book was actually written by Kennedy and how much by his research assistants. In 1957, newspaper columnist Drew Pearson appeared on ABC News' The Mike Wallace Show and claimed that the book had been ghost written and later named Kennedy’s “research associate” Theodore C. Sorensen as the ghost writer. Both Kennedy and Sorensen denied this claim. ABC News, under pressure from Kennedy and his lawyer Clark Clifford retracted the story. Some critics still question Kennedy’s authorship of the book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profiles_in_Courage

They also link to this site, which provides some details:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/031107.html

Ghostwritten? Not exactly, but Kennedy didn't write most of the book.

Kennedy no more wrote, Profiles In Courage, than Hillary wrote, It takes a Village.