..experts on WWII. Spartak, I asked you first, because you are our resident expert on WWII. It's obvious you've done a lot of reading on this topic, and that's commendable. There's a lot of misinformation out there.
I have a question for you. I recall reading somewhere about the Nazi Party and their views towards the Masonic Order of Freemasons, but can't really remember what their views were towards the Masons, and if they were persecuted.
Reason I ask--the Masons are a very powerful order and wield tremendous influence. Was wondering if the Nazis saw them as a threat.
Thanks.

Originally posted by rendova
..experts on WWII. Spartak, I asked you first, because you are our resident expert on WWII. It's obvious you've done a lot of reading on this topic, and that's commendable. There's a lot of misinformation out there.
I have a question for you. I recall reading somewhere about the Nazi Party and their views towards the Masonic Order of Freemasons, but can't really remember what their views were towards the Masons, and if they were persecuted.
Reason I ask--the Masons are a very powerful order and wield tremendous influence. Was wondering if the Nazis saw them as a threat.
Thanks.
Uh-oh! I'm flattered to be dubbed a WWII expert, but the truth is I know and have known people who lived in Hitler's Germany and in Stalin's USSR, and some were involved in that bloodbath; so all my digging has been the background to their experiences.
I know that officially the Nazis viciously opposed freemasons and regarded them as part of that 'World-wide Jewish Conspiracy', to add to the usual totalitarian opposition to 'secret societies'.
But anything to with Hitler and freemasonry on the internet will bring up volume upon volume of stories, conspiracies, claims and counter-claims, the Protocols of Sion, and tons of other stuff.
I wouldn't know where to start sifting the realistic stuff from the looney-tunes stuff.
but what with the Nazi fascination for all things occult, and their fascination for ancient history (twisted, in their case) , it wouldn't surprise me if some of the goose-steppers remained masons.

Originally posted by Spartak
Uh-oh! I'm flattered to be dubbed a WWII expert, but the truth is I know and have known people who lived in Hitler's Germany and in Stalin's USSR, and some were involved in that bloodbath; so all my digging has been the background to their experiences.
I know that officially the Nazis viciously opposed freemasons and regarded them as part of that 'World-wide Jewish Conspiracy', to add to the usual totalitarian opposition to 'secret societies'.
But anything to with Hitler and freemasonry on the internet will bring up volume upon volume of stories, conspiracies, claims and counter-claims, the Protocols of Sion, and tons of other stuff.
I wouldn't know where to start sifting the realistic stuff from the looney-tunes stuff.
but what with the Nazi fascination for all things occult, and their fascination for ancient history (twisted, in their case) , it wouldn't surprise me if some of the goose-steppers remained masons.
Thanks , spartak!
Wow, I never knew that the goose-steppers consideerd the Masons part of a "Jewish" conspiracy!
I wonder how they came to THAT conclusion?
They must have been truly frightened of them to give them THAT label--I know that the Masons don't require that a member , or prospective member, be a "Christian", only that they believe in "God."
I also know that the Catholic church has also hated and feared this order as well.
My Dad was a Mason and also a Shriner. Tho we begged for years, he would not tell us a single thing about what went on at their meetings, only that they did "good work." He stood by his oath to promise to not reveal their inner workings.
I am fascinated by them and would like to learn more, but there is not much out there that's reliable..any group that both the Catholic church AND the Nazis hate and fear must be some kind of group.

Originally posted by rendova
Thanks , spartak!
Wow, I never knew that the goose-steppers consideerd the Masons part of a "Jewish" conspiracy!
I wonder how they came to THAT conclusion?
I think by taking the Protocols of Sion (regarded by most of us as a composition by the Czar's Secret Police, as a pretext for oppressing Jews) and mixing it with Germany's victim culture (The banks are run by Jews & Masons, Jews are conspiring against Germany, etc), plus secret societies ARE mistrusted (if they're not sinister, why are they so secretive etc).
Some modern-day nazis come out with similar stuff, and worse.
Originally posted by rendova

They must have been truly frightened of them to give them THAT label--I know that the Masons don't require that a member , or prospective member, be a "Christian", only that they believe in "God."
I also know that the Catholic church has also hated and feared this order as well.
My Dad was a Mason and also a Shriner. Tho we begged for years, he would not tell us a single thing about what went on at their meetings, only that they did "good work." He stood by his oath to promise to not reveal their inner workings.
I am fascinated by them and would like to learn more, but there is not much out there that's reliable..any group that both the Catholic church AND the Nazis hate and fear must be some kind of group. I'm not sure the nazis feared them, rather that such 'regimes' like having 'an enemy' - real or imaginary - to attack.
Stalin was different in that he didn't need to invent any enemies - the failed interventions in the Civil War, plus Trotsky's flight abroad, gave him the enemy, and anyone disagreeing with Stalin could be portrayed as an 'agent of Trotsky' or 'agent of Imperialism'.