I guess if you sit down and take a look at the results of Katrina, it takes alot out of you. It's something that not alot of people were paying attention to until the video tapes of all the people there came through on the media. Its sad... so sad... that the cordination to help these people is going so slow. I thank god that I don't have relatives in New Orleans. With Bush in the office, I don't know if he is going to help things or hurt them. He took such positive gesture in bringing the national guard to New Orleans due to the minority. He is a racist, stupid, idiotical president. I worry living in Maryland, that my life is one step closer to a un-natural death due to terrorism that is getting multiplied every day. Everyone know's damn well that the quick reaction to 9/11 was a huge mistake. He is the worst president in US history. What is so sad is that he is actually even worse then his father. A war monger that is not scared of decisions coming back at him. Freakly I could care less about what he has to say in his speech today, all it is going to be is a pre- set speech. Something that they are putting a milk bottle in his mouth over. " Don't say this, no numbers, no talk of military, etc..."

I wish there was a way for American citizens to fill out a ballet, after the voting process, to kick out a president. Having the evil fu$ker in the Oval Office is not right. Let him jump into oil on his own time, in his own clothes. See if he likes it...


He will be no where near anything when he gets there, I can tell you that much. He is even worse then Joseph Stallion in some ways. Prices on gas have risen a two dollars a gallon. Jobs are at an all time low due to moral of America as a whole. His own cabinet doesn't know his motives anymore. He think's purely in a striaght line that is at an all time low. Somewhere downstairs with the demons. Maybe some of you will read this and hate me for not being more supportive of the American way of things, and maybe some of you won't. If you are against what I am saying, then you won't have more to say then a paragraph like President Bu$h.
My personal opinion of Bush has gone from a D- to a E to an F.

The levee system in New Orleans had been crying for government funds for improvement...but year after year, cuts in the budget limited that funding. Now, a city is paying quite a price for it.

Does anybody else think Bush wants to help...but he wants to do it on HIS time and HIS schedule? Flying over N.O. and just looking at the damage doesn't do justice to anybody.

Thats a pretty good since of humor you got there. I got a good laugh out of it. Hopefully no one ends there comments with 1 paragraph. Serious though, Bush cares about America.

Bush Sucks!!!!

....I never really disagreed or agreed with you, but I guess if it was funny, though I don't know how talking about a national disaster is as such.

The most important thing is to not link everything said, remarked, or joked about when talking along the terms of the disaster to a negative tone; or a tone that is one of which I show no care for those people by introducing humor. I am very likely to have not had to go through what every single person has had to endure. Even those people grabbing T.V's deserve to be let go. The world they know right now is one that no one knows. I world that has them trapped. Its the people that did, taste less things, that need to be locked up. Alot of the material that was brought up was fabricated. I don't believe that people were shooting at helicopters at all. It was a sleezy way of gathering more time for the rescue due to the poor reaction time and to distract the American viewer's from what is actually going on. People dying that don't need to in a hurricane that had alot of warning put behind it. One thing that really ticks me off though, is how every media station compares catagories of death to terrorism. It was a natural disaster people, not bombs a blazen. It is so good of them to bring them to the Astrodom though. Thank god for that...
36 Hours is not enough time for the people, if the media is telling the truth. Let the people get on solid ground first, damn. What if one of those families has lost a brother or sister? Its going to be even more of a disastor getting people into homeless shelters. Alot of these people had love like no other for N.O. and put major extent's and memories into their home's. One thing is for certain, God will help every single victim over there through this. There you have it, I have bleeded my mind dry over something that I would rather not know about since I can't help the situation. It just angers us American citizens to know it was handled this poorly.

We rush millions+ dollars to the area ravaged by the tsunami, yet it takes this long to help our own people.

.

ahuh. They deserved that money too.

National gueard troops shood have been rushed into that area the next day. Wy did it take five days for the shrub to deploy them?

I work for the Red Cross, the military is keeping the Red Cross from going into the city because they can't guarantee our safety. So we have 149 shelters set up throught the rest of the state where we are housing 93,000 residents.

Access to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

This is one big FUBAR.

Two days after the tsnami we air dropped supplies to the victims.
Several days later we still have people in New Orleans without drinking water or food.
Whats wrong with this picture?

I wonder if the response would have been faster if terrorists had blown up the levies?

Or if we had a president that was more concerned about America's people?

Whats wrong with the picture is that we went over there to get an understanding of military. Its sad, but that could be partially the reason. The real reason was for the people dying, but you know America. We feel the need to find out answer's that sometimes are bad for us to wait for. Thats why the cruise ships were asked to leave by China, I think it was. We did what was right though, thats all that matters.

Oh, and whats wrong with the picture is that it has no sound.

The terrorist will more likely try to do an attack of that sort now. They have their spies here that see whats going on and are getting idea's.

Originally posted by FreeMind182
He is even worse then Joseph Stallion in some ways.

Well, they both like to horse around, you know.

I heard that one of the problems in deploying the National Guard was that some of them are in Iraq. I imagine that another problem is that the nearest units were in the area that was hit hard by the storm themselves, and had trouble mobilizing. On the federal level, the orders to units in other states were slow in coming. Part of the problem was that the levees did not fail immediately, but failed the day after the storm had passed. By that time, aid was on the way to the coast of Mississippi and Alabama where the worst wind and storm surge damage is. It took time to redirect the efforts. Also, much of the aid that was on it's way into New Orleans had to be pulled back when the city flooded.
With that said, the coordination of the Department of Homeland Security has been poor. Reorganizing the Federal Government into one super beauracracy has not improved efficiency. The shortages of fuel in the area caused by the mass exodus of those able to flee has hindered the efforts of those trying to get in. Also the local military commanders seem more concerned with their public image than with the people who need help.
Perhaps the stupidest story I heard about the whole affair happened the night before the storm actually hit. With Katrina bearing down on the city, and the winds rising, officials told people to come to the dome with five days worth of food and water, and to bring their own bedding. Then the person in charge of the dome decided that each person entering needed to be searched to ensure that no terrorist was bringing a bomb into the shelter. This process left people lined up for hours trying to get in, in heavy rain and winds of up to fifty miles miles per hour.

Our National Guard unit deployed this morning.
This unit was in Iraq. They were in on the original rush to Baghdad. They have experience, maybe this will help.

I know many of these people. They are truly interested in helping.

Now, entertaining my sense of humor. I would like to offer the suggestion that news reporters become first responders of aid in emergency situations.
They are on the scene almost immediately.
They learn what is going on.
They are versed in communication with victims, a priority in emergency situations.
They usually do not have a political agendy to satisfy upon arrival.
They are organized.

I would like to speak of all the medical personal and care-givers that chose to stay behind and face the rath of the storm in order to aid and comfort those medically incapacitated that could not leave.

Sure, many thing were not done right. But, many people did great things with the few assets they had at their disposal.

My hat is off to those that care.

Originally posted by silverbulletkc
We rush millions+ dollars to the area ravaged by the tsunami, yet it takes this long to help our own people.
Speaking of which, what other nation has offered to lend us a helping hand? We provide aid for everyone, but when it comes to our needs, I guess it's screw the Bullheaded Americans - they can fend for themselves.

When are we gonna learn???

Prea you really don't bother to think before shooting off you mouth do you?

http://www.allforums.net/showthread.php?s=&postid=154734#post154734

Originally posted by Imagineer
Reorganizing the Federal Government into one super beauracracy has not improved efficiency.

You'd think the "small-government" Republicans would have known that.

Originally posted by Imagineer
This process left people lined up for hours trying to get in, in heavy rain and winds of up to fifty miles miles per hour.

Nothing like killing people with your attempts to save them. On the other hand, if someone had brought a bomb in, lots of idiots would point the finger squarely at that guy.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
I would like to offer the suggestion that news reporters become first responders of aid in emergency situations.

I know you're kidding, but reporters view their job as more important than saving lives. During the Iraq war I read a huge article debating the appropriateness of a CNN cameraman (trained as an EMT) saving a man's life, thus ruining the detachedness that is so damned important. The article finally concluded that it was OK to get involved, but the fact that there was even a question about it gives one pause.

Originally posted by
The Praetorian

Speaking of which, what other nation has offered to lend us a helping hand?

Pay attention Prae!

Bush fiddles while New Orleans suffers!

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a363/theragtopguy/Bushstrums_NOfloods.jpg

Two societies. The haves and have nots.

These neocon creeps are worse than Nixon ever was. I hope when their days on earth are over, they all rot in hell!

What matters is that people truely care about what is going on in New Orleans now. With the news, thats a different story. The news is just trying to confuse people alot, in what is going on down there. People are donating money that don't have much to give. What it isn't going to do is make the government liked in america. People are going to blame the slow response time on the Republican party, I am telling you. Media is one of the worst things in American history. It was something that was designed for entertainment, and is now being used for Terror and all that is bad. I think the biggest blame for this all is media. They show pictures of dead people on the streets... I mean common... Alot of the people are probably sick of the media in N.O. I would tell the armed guard to watch out for the media, people will riot if they are talking on their cell-phone and are hearing all the things they have done. It's one thing to show the people there that need help, its another to show those that were lost to get something to happen. All it does is gets people mad at those who may have not been at fault. Its like rumors, by the time you hear them.... half the time its not even the same story. All exagerated bs. The biggest problem was not having boats, planes, helicopters, and everything planned greater then it was.
No one was expecting it to be this bad, but look at the hurricane. It was a level 4 or 5. You can't tell me that people were not going to be in trouble after it past. The Red Cross deserves alot of donations to them after this. The people that work for them need to get better pay, better everything... They made a huge commitment in staying there, even after people were leaving, and doing so because they wanted to.

Two societies. The haves and have nots.

In America, we have a democracy.

Irving Kristol:
Democracy does not guarantee equality of conditions - it only guarantees equality of opportunity

In this country going to school is a requirement, and public school tuition is provided by the government. You study and work hard in school, graduate, and then head out into the workforce. To better your opportunity in the workforce you can go back to school, even a community college will help, you just have to work to pay for it.
Even working minimum wage jobs are good enough, play your cards right and spend wisely, and keep working hard until you move up the system. Then you conditions get better.

Life has some funny quirks too, living your life, such as marriage, children, starting a business, getting promoted, moving to find a new job, training for a new career, and many other things help in getting people able to provide for themselves.

Life also has some darker elements, such as poor, crime-stricken neighborhoods full of drugs and violence. Even difficult family situations occur because of addictions, family violence, and lack of means.

But schools are there for people to use, free of charge while they pay their parents pay taxes ;). Libraries are open for learning, child protective services, police, and other agencies are there for you, even the YMCA is there. Businesses are everywhere in america, you have a great possibilty to create your own or save up to enter a new school to reach the next tier market for jobs.

Life dealt you your cards, play them wisely or will you will get shafted. America the Beautiful.

In a capitalist democracy there are two societies...

The workers and the nonworkers.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Speaking of which, what other nation has offered to lend us a helping hand? We provide aid for everyone, but when it comes to our needs, I guess it's screw the Bullheaded Americans - they can fend for themselves.

When are we gonna learn???

Canada is now loading two ships with aid and will leave port on Tuesday with over a thousand personal. Many will be helping with the levies.

In America, we have a democracy.
No we don't. We have a republic. This country is in no way shape or form an actual democracy.

Irving Kristol:
Democracy does not guarantee equality of conditions - it only guarantees equality of opportunity
Regardless of the fact that this isn't a democracy, this country doesn't.

Even working minimum wage jobs are good enough, play your cards right and spend wisely, and keep working hard until you move up the system. Then you conditions get better.
You don't move up in a minimum wage job. You move over into a slightly better paying but still below living level job.

The workers and the nonworkers.
There are around 30 million dirt poor people in the united states. A third of that are children.
Those pesky kids, no education and they just wont get a damn job!

No we don't. We have a republic. This country is in no way shape or form an actual democracy.

Point taken, that is the more commonly used label. although it is a type of democratic republic to be more accurate.

There are around 30 million dirt poor people in the united states. A third of that are children.
Those pesky kids, no education and they just wont get a damn job!

Sheesh man :@@: wow wow wow wow wow
The kids "job" is school, as it is provided, their actions in school and fresh out into the workforce later on will help or hurt their future.

Based on the average american family consisting of either 1-2 kids and a mother and father, it is the parents actions that result in the children being poor.

Dirt poor and United States do not belong in the same sentence. Its pure laziness, poor planning, and sometimes outer working circumstances that results in poverty here in america. If you are homeless and poor, there are many shelters that will fix you up and help you and then you can find some sort of paying work and wean yourself from the shelter and work up until you are self sufficient and can pay for everything yourself and continue on that path.

Americans do not know the meaning of 'dirt poor', someone who makes 13,000 dollars a year at their one job may be considered living in poverty, but a mother in the Congo scratching a living off of selling bushmeat and their children are starving and cold without any shelter is true "dirt poor" as they have nothing and live in the dirt.

Also, the many teenagers and college goers who have minimum wage jobs often upset and unbalance the statistics of money in america.

You don't move up in a minimum wage job. You move over into a slightly better paying but still below living level job.

We have things called bonuses, raises, and promotions. If you start at the bottom at minimum wage, you work your way up to raises and promotions. Moving up in the chain.

this country doesn't

In this wonderful nation we can achieve many things, time and effort come into the mix but many things can be established and reached in America.

The kids "job" is school, as it is provided, their actions in school and fresh out into the workforce later on will help or hurt their future.
Not if their family is starving. In a situation like that, you ignore your future in an attempt to survive the present.

Based on the average american family consisting of either 1-2 kids and a mother and father, it is the parents actions that result in the children being poor.
Absolutely correct. And they started out poor and had a terrible education because of their parents' actions, who were poor and had a terrible education because of their parents', etc. There are a number of reasons as to why there is a cycle of circumstances that require a child of abnormally high inteligence to break it. Mostly it being that a human is still an animal and highly suceptable to behavioral training. In case you were unaware, Freud spent his life investigating that what occurs in your childhood has a deep and powerful effect on your future life even if you don't know it. The education system from district to district in the United States is not equal. You'll continue to blame those of average intelligence(which is obviously lower than yours) for not looking after themselves while at the same time being completly ignorant to the concept that humans are neither created equal nor are we raised equal. Poverty conditions breed poverty for those who live it and as long as the average intelligence for those in those conditions remains the same over the years, they'll never get out of it. You can't teach responsibility to those at older ages and you most certainly cannot teach inbred intelligence.

We have things called bonuses, raises, and promotions. If you start at the bottom at minimum wage, you work your way up to raises and promotions. Moving up in the chain.
In minimum wage jobs that the poor are stuck with, there is no actual chain. There's a floor and a ceiling. The ceiling happens to be just barely too high for the average person to jump to it.

In this wonderful nation we can achieve many things, time and effort come into the mix but many things can be established and reached in America.
Correct. For those of above average intelligence.

In this wonderful nation we can achieve many things, time and effort come into the mix but many things can be established and reached in America.
. Correct. For those of above average intelligence

I was just about to make the same point as you Blob... Evakian you are naively assuming that all are born equally intelligent and emtoinally balanced and physically healthy.

In minimum wage jobs that the poor are stuck with, there is no actual chain. There's a floor and a ceiling. The ceiling happens to be just barely too high for the average person to jump to it.
:@@: :confused: :eek: :hitout:

Absolutely correct. And they started out poor and had a terrible education because of their parents' actions, who were poor and had a terrible education because of their parents', etc

Yep

There are a number of reasons as to why there is a cycle of circumstances that require a child of abnormally high inteligence to break it.

Not necessarily does intellect have to come into play, just determination to break that chain.

Mostly it being that a human is still an animal and highly suceptable to behavioral training. In case you were unaware, Freud spent his life investigating that what occurs in your childhood has a deep and powerful effect on your future life even if you don't know it.

Yes indeed, Freud has some interesting, and rather odd sometimes, discoveries about psychology of the human being.

The education system from district to district in the United States is not equal.

Yes, because of funding. Some are funded by those who are poor and those who dropped out of school and those who did bad in school and now that reflects on their earnings and career, resulting in penalties for the children of that community.

that humans are neither created equal nor are we raised equal.

Humans may not be born into equal conditions, but humans are and can be all equal; like it or not.

You'll continue to blame those of average intelligence(which is obviously lower than yours) for not looking after themselves

I really enjoy how people always like to make false assumptions about people. Its quite sad that you think of me in such a way and make such a lowly picture default of those you do not know.

they'll never get out of it.

Where there is a will, there is a way

You can't teach responsibility to those at older ages and you most certainly cannot teach inbred intelligence.

You can always teach an old dog new tricks as the old saying goes, anyone can be taught new lessons. Also, are you saying that intellectuals are born that way, i mean, surely some are born with more access to learning materials and an enviroment like that, and some learn in more efficient ways than others, but surely intelligence is not a birth trait. So what if your brain cannot compute math equations very well to handle your life the ways others can, if you try hard and work at it, even if you still do worse than others, you're doing your best.
There is a theory tossing around that people have "multiple types of intelligences" and it explains how people are inclined to certain types of learning and subjects. Interesting stuff, if i find a good link i'll post it.

Not if their family is starving. In a situation like that, you ignore your future in an attempt to survive the present.

What a great agony it is for some less fortunate families to have to pull their children out of school (usually in high school) and make them work. What a terrible situation, many alternatives or extremes must be put into experimentation, but perhaps one day there will be a supposed solution offered by school districts or states.

It's a mad mad mad mad mad mad mad world...:(

carpe diem

I was just about to make the same point as you Blob... Evakian you are naively assuming that all are born equally intelligent and emtoinally balanced and physically healthy.

And your sadistic defeatist viewpoint of human life and the work force is also disturbing.

If burying your emotions is needed to get means for food and shelter, bury them so you can get through the day to get those means.
If you are physically ailing, not all jobs are physical labor.
If you are unintelligent, genetics plays a role, but that won't keep you from learning, reading, and taking on new things.

It is to weep at the thought that people have no control over their lives, i am sorry but i do think more highly of the 'human race' :)

Not necessarily does intellect have to come into play, just determination to break that chain.
I can't believe that. No matter how determined a person may be, they can be easily restricted by just simply the lack of ability. If you tried as hard as you possibly could, do you honestly believe that you could accomplish the same kinds of things a person such as Einstein did?

Yes, because of funding. Some are funded by those who are poor and those who dropped out of school and those who did bad in school and now that reflects on their earnings and career, resulting in penalties for the children of that community.
Or they came out of the same kind of environment. The problem of the poor breeding the poor is older than 20 years, older than 40 years, older than 1000 years. Only small circumstances have changed. It changed from the poor being dicated to being poor by removing proper education to now the only way you get a proper education is if you pay for it. A lot can't pay for it.

Humans may not be born into equal conditions, but humans are and can be all equal; like it or not.
Humans aren't born equal, period. That comment sounds like pure behaviourism, and those are some nutty people. We would never have evolved to where we are if we all were born equal. There can be a false sense of equality, that everybody can live without much conflict and that nobody needs to starve. That much I believe is possible, but I just consider it foolishness to consider humans to be equal deep down.

I really enjoy how people always like to make false assumptions about people. Its quite sad that you think of me in such a way and make such a lowly picture default of those you do not know.
What are you talking about? Average intelligence wouldn't be average if only a few people were that intelligent and everybody else were above average. That would statistically make no sense. There would be no status quo if what you believed was true. I find it downright hilarious that people believe that just because somebody is poor is because they're lazy. As I mentioned a third of the poor are children. Tens of millions of people are not just "lazy". Tens of millions of people were born into the wrong conditions with not enough ability. Will power can't do everything, this isn't a world of magic.

You can always teach an old dog new tricks as the old saying goes, anyone can be taught new lessons.
It's not a new trick. It's a lifestyle. It would be creating a new dog. That idiotic analogy doesn't apply.

Also, are you saying that intellectuals are born that way, i mean, surely some are born with more access to learning materials and an enviroment like that, and some learn in more efficient ways than others, but surely intelligence is not a birth trait. So what if your brain cannot compute math equations very well to handle your life the ways others can, if you try hard and work at it, even if you still do worse than others, you're doing your best.
I am saying that intelligence is inborn. People's brains are wired differently. As you mentioned, people learn differently than others and sometimes things up there just don't work as well. Intellectuals are different than intelligent people. Intellectuals are well educated, intelligent people are just downright smart. Every person on this planet can be intellectual. Not every person can be above average intelligent. If intelligence was restricted to the idea that we are just taught better, then you would never see an intelligent person come out of poverty. What I was trying to say though, was that your best may not always be good enough. A person's best is not always going to get one out of poverty.

What a great agony it is for some less fortunate families to have to pull their children out of school (usually in high school) and make them work. What a terrible situation, many alternatives or extremes must be put into experimentation, but perhaps one day there will be a supposed solution offered by school districts or states.
Are you finally coming to grips with the fact that not every situation one is put in is of their own free will?

If you tried as hard as you possibly could, do you honestly believe that you could accomplish the same kinds of things a person such as Einstein did?

I was talking about providing for yourself, not making groundbreaking mathematical theories. But no, few can achieve the level of brilliance in Einstein's deep thoughts that he used in his studies. Very interesting person.

The problem of the poor breeding the poor is older than 20 years, older than 40 years, older than 1000 years.

For thousands, since cities came to be and civilization sprung up and an economic system developed many years ago. Through most countries throughout history, wealth is carried down through the generations and the system was pretty much impossible to change standings. But we are here in america now.

That much I believe is possible, but I just consider it foolishness to consider humans to be equal deep down.

i should have left out the 'are' equal and just left the 'can be' ;)
True that man is not all equal, their actions, relationships, thoughts, dreams, and more determine that. Or it just depends on your view of equality.

Will power can't do everything, this isn't a world of magic.

Of course one must accept the outer conditions such as family poverty or the crime-stricken street forcing down opportunities. But willpower can often make the difference between having a hot meal on your plate and spending your mealtime with nothing.

Intellectuals are well educated, intelligent people are just downright smart.

aha, i like how that was put, good point Blib

Every person on this planet can be intellectual. Not every person can be above average intelligent.

agreed, and obvious

What I was trying to say though, was that your best may not always be good enough. A person's best is not always going to get one out of poverty.

Yep, but there is more to life than money and food eh? hehe

Are you finally coming to grips with the fact that not every situation one is put in is of their own free will?

Oh believe me, i understand your views and knew them already. But realists often are the people who give away the ending to a great movie, while idealists enjoy the wonder of the story.
Although i see a bleak world, no reason to run around yelling it from the hilltops.
The world needs encouragement, not realization of their boundaries. Its merely a matter of being kind.

I was talking about providing for yourself, not making groundbreaking mathematical theories. But no, few can achieve the level of brilliance in Einstein's deep thoughts that he used in his studies. Very interesting person.
I was just making the point that there are places that people cannot reach, and those places are different for each person.

For thousands, since cities came to be and civilization sprung up and an economic system developed many years ago. Through most countries throughout history, wealth is carried down through the generations and the system was pretty much impossible to change standings. But we are here in america now.
And although it is slightly easier to change your standing in society, this really only applies to those are intelligent enough to outsmart those who are currently rich without a proper education. The vast majority of the poor are not so well endowed.

Of course one must accept the outer conditions such as family poverty or the crime-stricken street forcing down opportunities. But willpower can often make the difference between having a hot meal on your plate and spending your mealtime with nothing.
That often doesn't mean they're out of poverty.

Oh believe me, i understand your views and knew them already. But realists often are the people who give away the ending to a great movie, while idealists enjoy the wonder of the story.
Although i see a bleak world, no reason to run around yelling it from the hilltops.
The world needs encouragement, not realization of their boundaries. Its merely a matter of being kind.
I understand. However I don't find it kind to claim that all poor people are poor because they're lazy. As you mentioned they can achieve certain things that they are capable of. That doesn't always mean that they'll become rich and get out of poverty. And because that doesn't mean that, not all poor people are poor because they just didn't try hard enought. That was what my issue with what you claimed was. I find it overly arrogant and ignorant to claim that everybody should be and can be as intelligent as you are.

I find it overly arrogant and ignorant to claim that everybody should be and can be as intelligent as you are.

This brings me back to the core of my argument- that if someone works at it with the cards they are given at a game on the american table, things don't have to end in poverty.
People have a high degree of economic opportunities here and poverty is not an inescapable fate, thats all i am trying to say.

I understand.

:woohoo:

we've developed mutual understanding, i agree with you pretty much on all counts, as they are true. But from the philosophic standpoint of human decision, i am trying to make a point.

Anyway, we kind of slapped this thread off in a very different direction. hehe

Evakian and Blibblob. You two need to chill the hell out. Its just a message board. You two are crazy or something...

No novel's... just thoughts...

Well being a nooblet you aren't used to it, but that is how discussions usually go around here. Being a semi-nooblet i have experienced it alot.

elongated passages of commentary on the last post and then commentary on that one and so on. They get shorter and shorter until the people give up or agree to disagree and stop (sometimes it ends in a hate filled cuss out) or even a switch in topics or threads

Btw: Novels are thoughts...thoughts of the author ;)

Imagination...

It is a form of thought, but when you put to much of it in...
You get mush. Its something that comes naturally, you book would be pretty boring to tell you the truth...

One in which your thought process takes away from your creativity.

Imagination comes naturally and feeds and grows.

Writing does not come naturally, one must work at the various types of writing, use of words and grammar, and types of plots, etc.

Editing is a very important part of writing, it helps fix up errors and change/omit things that were shaky or unnecessary.

Plus many authors put underlying messages in their works, the more thought and effort the better and more meaningful. Lord of the Flies makes for a great example.

But anyway, this was about katrina hehe

so far this has been a momentous fuck up. They can drop 3000 lb bags of dirt by helicopter into the 17th street canal but they can't drop a pallet of water to the convention center where people are dying in the street.

Expect 10,000 dead from all of this....

I read one headline from a conservative newspaper that said "Nagin is no Guilani" - what a really stupid thing to say. 911 is peanuts compared to this. Guiliani has a building fall down - he didn't have the whole city infrastructure destroyed with NYC flooded. Nagin is a good mayor & he was the only one who had the guts to say this is bullshit, so the right try to marginalize him as an idiot.

Just like 911 - Bush was slow to react, this time he wasn't reading to kids about pet goats and then skipping around the country like some pussy. He was skipping around the country following a political agenda like New Orleans was no big deal.

Hopefully things are on the right track now - but those lost days cost lives. The FEMA director should be fired immediately and replaced with somebody competant.

Anyway - i'm driving back down there tommorrow to check on my house.

Originally posted by DrewM
so far this has been a momentous fuck up. They can drop 3000 lb bags of dirt by helicopter into the 17th street canal but they can't drop a pallet of water to the convention center where people are dying in the street.

Expect 10,000 dead from all of this....

I read one headline from a conservative newspaper that said "Nagin is no Guilani" - what a really stupid thing to say. 911 is peanuts compared to this. Guiliani has a building fall down - he didn't have the whole city infrastructure destroyed with NYC flooded. Nagin is a good mayor & he was the only one who had the guts to say this is bullshit, so the right try to marginalize him as an idiot.

Just like 911 - Bush was slow to react, this time he wasn't reading to kids about pet goats and then skipping around the country like some pussy. He was skipping around the country following a political agenda like New Orleans was no big deal.

Hopefully things are on the right track now - but those lost days cost lives. The FEMA director should be fired immediately and replaced with somebody competant.

It has been a total fuck up and it is frustrating beyond belief to watch it unfold and sit helplessly by knowing they only need WATER.... and FOOD. Babies and old people dying of dehydration. Huge signs in some places saying H2O and a drop arrow... People still trapped in their attics with no water...

Anyway - i'm driving back down there tommorrow to check on my house.

Good luck and let us know when you are safe!

Originally posted by DrewM
so far this has been a momentous fuck up. They can drop 3000 lb bags of dirt by helicopter into the 17th street canal but they can't drop a pallet of water to the convention center where people are dying in the street.

Expect 10,000 dead from all of this....

I read one headline from a conservative newspaper that said "Nagin is no Guilani" - what a really stupid thing to say. 911 is peanuts compared to this. Guiliani has a building fall down - he didn't have the whole city infrastructure destroyed with NYC flooded. Nagin is a good mayor & he was the only one who had the guts to say this is bullshit, so the right try to marginalize him as an idiot.

Just like 911 - Bush was slow to react, this time he wasn't reading to kids about pet goats and then skipping around the country like some pussy. He was skipping around the country following a political agenda like New Orleans was no big deal.

Hopefully things are on the right track now - but those lost days cost lives. The FEMA director should be fired immediately and replaced with somebody competant.

Anyway - i'm driving back down there tommorrow to check on my house.

Good luck to you Drew...I hope your losses are minimal.

so far this has been a momentous fuck up. They can drop 3000 lb bags of dirt by helicopter into the 17th street canal but they can't drop a pallet of water to the convention center where people are dying in the street.

and what are the possible results in this action?
I do not disagree that this has been handled very poorly but i do disagree that the blame lay in the hands of only the federal government. It was a total break down in both local and federal government. But anyway, again what would be the possible results in dropping pallets of water/food to them folks who are dying, starving? The good intention that this act holds is misguided. In a situation such as this its important to set priorities.

Originally posted by Livinston
But anyway, again what would be the possible results in dropping pallets of water/food to them folks who are dying, starving? The good intention that this act holds is misguided. In a situation such as this its important to set priorities.

Misguided in what way? People were dying of dehydration...you drop some water... THAT is a priority... period...

Also, welcome to allforums!

Well lets see, who is distributing this water/food? Now dont get me wrong they needed water they needed food but you must understand there was no social order dropping pallets of food and water could result in deaths.
And thanks glad to be here.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Prea you really don't bother to think before shooting off you mouth do you?

http://www.allforums.net/showthread.php?s=&postid=154734#post154734
I just heard that we were receiving help on CNN later that day (9-02) from Great Britain, Japan, Australia, Kuwait, and "The International Energy Agency".

Kofi Annan reportedly said, lovingly, "America is the country best prepared in the world to deal with such a national disaster". IOW, good luck.

France offered their "deepest condolences", while Germany offered money, but only on the condition that we request it specifically - How white of them...

If the derision on your part comes from me not reading one of your many desultory links, then you'll have to excuse me, monkey boy - I work for a living.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a363/theragtopguy/e7071daa.jpg

Those are some hot rides there, Ragtop. That Metro would be off the hook with a spoiler and some spinners, JMO.

All the "Cutty" needs is a nice hood mural and some curb-finders, and your shit is like totally bling-bling.

Originally posted by Blibblob
[b] The vast majority of the poor are not so well endowed.
[b]

speak for yourself buddy :D

There are a lot of folks remaining in the flooded areas, refusing to be rescued.

kind of like the 101 st in Bastogne

I don't think I'd go that far

Originally posted by Travh20
kind of like the 101 st in Bastogne

Except without the brains.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
Except without the brains.

And well...the Germans...

And the freezing weather.

But besides that, very similar. ;)

I work for a living So do I jerk face...
:D

and the shelling. OK, never mind, they re nothing like the 101st at bastogne. Just trying to give them a little credit, I guess they are really just idiots.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
So do I jerk face...
:D
:)

back from down south.

its like a war zone - kind of strange driving through your neighbourhood and seeing buildings destroyed, tree's uprooted, gas stations with their flat roofs blown off and cars on their roofs.

My house was flooded 1 ft deep, but the water has gone now. Pulled out all the carpets & then got out of there.

Lots of soldiers around - and felt quite safe, although we had a shotgun just in case.

I'm glad your house wasn't so bad, that is to say you still had one. You will undoubtedly need mold abatement treatments, but it sounds salvageable. You are luckier than many.

Are you going back to work or has your company been closed ? I read that job losses due to Katrina could reach 1 million.

luckily I work for myself & my income is not tied to the economy in New Orleans. My wife is a nurse though at Tulane - she probably will not have a job there for at least a year.

Glad you have enough home left to work with, Drew.

It seems that there is no end to the confusion that the people of the gulf coast states have to contend with.
When a person calls the FEMA number for assistance they are told to give an address and phone number for FEMA to get back in touch with them.
But, the people are saying that they have no address or phone number anymore. They do not know where they will be in the near future. Does FEMA, as a conglomerate, not know that these people are displaced?

The debit cards that are becoming available from FEMA and the Red Cross appear to be just as confusing.
The amount available is determined by the number in the family.
You must provide proof of this number of family members.
The proof, in many instances, is buried in lumber and flood waters.

What a mess!

Giving out $2000 debit cards to people sounds like a mistake. People like myself that have paid a lot of taxes in the past will not get any $2000 debit cards!

The people who will get them have probably for the most part never had $2000 in one lump sum - they will go nuts & waste it on CD's, expensive clothes and so on. They should give them cash in $500 a month chunks. not $2000 in one go.

I get where you're coming from Drew. But consider that many of these families have nothing but the clothes they have on. They knead socks, underwear, shirts, pants, etc for every family member. They need toothbrushes, soap, etc. I doubt that very many of them will spend the money on CD's when they have no diapers for the baby, clothes for the kids, needed medications, etc.

I don't know what the answer is to all these problems. Katrina, if nothing else has given us an excellent blueprint of what needs to be a part of any new disaster emergency response we put together. I hope that the powers that be take a good hard look at this and form a specific and manageable plan for future disasters. I especially hope that the big corporate lobbyists don't influence members of congress to hold back on help so as to not put a dent in their profits.

I have had to stop watching the news. It is too overwhelming at times. I cannot imagine the feeling one must get when they realize that they have lost everything. No home, no possessions, no family pictures, no job, nothing but the clothes on their back.

Originally posted by Echo2
They knead socks, underwear, shirts, pants, etc for every family member.
What - are they using those items to bake a loaf of bread? I've heard of typos, Echo, but this is ridiculous.

Originally posted by DrewM
Giving out $2000 debit cards to people sounds like a mistake. People like myself that have paid a lot of taxes in the past will not get any $2000 debit cards!

The people who will get them have probably for the most part never had $2000 in one lump sum - they will go nuts & waste it on CD's, expensive clothes and so on. They should give them cash in $500 a month chunks. not $2000 in one go.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I too thought of this waste that is going to happen.
Probably the economists in the government know this will happen, but are using it to put money in circulation to stimulate local economies.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
What - are they using those items to bake a loaf of bread? I've heard of typos, Echo, but this is ridiculous.

Oh my gosh! I have been perusing bread recepes all morning. That is so weird.

I think it is horrible. They are helping the people out, but how far does 2000 dollars really go nowadays? I say F baseball in Texas for a long time. You know damn well that pushing people into homeless shelters is going to spread this hate that has derived from the bad response time. I think the best way to solve the problem that the government, and not the Red Cross in any way, has done is asking of Hotels all around the area to allow free room and board... Giving the people a sense of something other then this disaster. They can always pay back these hotels back, lord knows we throw away enough money for war but not for lives. The government needs to make HUGE decisons in the coming weeks. These will be decisons that we either hurt the people to high hell, or send them in the right direction. It would help for knowing that for the wrongdoing there, came honest help into moving the people of N.O. with some sense of us trying to give them a front door to walk through. Instead we rush into giving money, you know the saying. " Money is the root of all evil."

I have not been watching this on the sick news stations. I heard about the debit cards over the radio... Its an effort, but one that will come back to get the people even more mad.

Originally posted by FreeMind182
you know the saying. " Money is the root of all evil."


The quote is "The love of money is the root of all evil".

Yes, money is a very very usefull thing to have. It makes bartering a lot easier. :D

the one positive I see about the debit cards is it will give people back a sense of having some control over their lives. When you are stuck in a FEMA shelter lining up for water & food it probably saps the self esteem.

The debit cards will cost about $1 billion or so - small change vs what we spend in Iraq.

The problem will be, as I mentioned above, is to most of these people $2000 will be like a pot of gold falling from the sky. Many will be responsible, but many will buy alcohol, guns, drugs, and so on. They can go to any ATM and draw out cash from the card. They shouldn't be able to do that & certain purchases should be blocked. Liquor stores & so on.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell

When a person calls the FEMA number for assistance they are told to give an address and phone number for FEMA to get back in touch with them.


They said on NPR that FEMA plans to mail everything to people's home address. WTF?

alligators- mailman's newest archenemy :D

Originally posted by LionelHutz
They said on NPR that FEMA plans to mail everything to people's home address. WTF?

This is all rubbish - people can get the $2000 debit cards in person or the money into their bank account.

It's christmas in september for many of these people but FEMA isn't mailing stuff to non existant addresses.

The president says that we shouldn't play the blame game during Katrina's fuzzy aftermath. Yet we have state and local idiots in Louisiana pointing fingers at the feds, and federal morons plus W's radio propagandists pointing them right back at the guv and the N.O. mayor.
Republicans blaming Dems and vice versa.
Yes, the locals bungled the evac plan.
Sure, the unqualified FEMA guy fudged his resume.
The truth of the matter is that there is no shortage of blame to go around at alllevels of gov't. But good luck finding a mea culpa from anyone. This is our gov't, f*ck it. Who's responsible for this fiasco? Other countries must be wetting themselves from laughing so hard. We're gonna tell them how to live when we don't have it together?
Here's the whole trouble with American politics: If you're dissatisfied with the GOP, you can turn to the Dems.
If they screw up, where do you go next?
We are the biggest and most diverse nation on Earth and the lone superpower. And we have only 2 viable and arguably similar parties from which to choose? Jesus, even Iraq has 3.
And we get the same bureaucratic inertia and paternalistic gov't from one as you do the other. The Libs want to run our lives from cradle to grave? Well, the GOP will spend millions looking into a Super Bowl halftime show and try to federalize state issues like marriage and medical cannabis. It was the GOP who rammed the min. drinking age down our gullets 20 years ago, remember?
The Left loves big gov't? Which party gave us the Medicare drug plan and built a whole new shiftless bureaucracy after 9/11? And making FEMA part of it was a splendid idea, huh?
Osama got one thing right since then. (Well, maybe more. He's eluded Wile E. Bush for 4 years.) Your safety is in your hands. Gov't is not to be trusted regardless of who is pretending to be in charge. Unless maybe you're filthy and rich.
By the way, isn't LA a red state?

Comrad bushkovich's loyal followers continue to goose step to the talking points of the GOP spin machine.

I really cant wait for bush to leave office so we dont have to listen to this idiotic blathering anymore

Originally posted by Travh20
I really cant wait for bush to leave office so we dont have to listen to this idiotic blathering anymore

I couldn't agree more Trav...some of the things that guy says...sheesh. :D

Originally posted by Travh20
I really cant wait for bush to leave office so we dont have to listen to this idiotic blathering anymore
Hear hear!

I was talking to a friend in Sugar Land today who actually has a brother from Metairie, La staying with him. He said that they found out his brother's house had not been damaged or flooded at all. His brother went back there the night before last to check on it and get some things, but had to get back to TX because they are not allowing people to come back and stay there for at least a month. He said that his brother had already been turned down by FEMA because he had homeowners insurance, but his brother was going to apply to the Red Cross for the money, even though he doesn't think his brother should, because there are people who need it more than he does. All the local churches have been working together to bring food, clothing and supplies to the evacuees and that his brother has already been able to get plenty of clothes, etc. for himself, wife and child (one), and see things around the area that they are allowing free admission to for the evacuees.

All the local churches have been working together to bring food, clothing and supplies to the evacuees and that his brother has already been able to get plenty of clothes, etc.

The churches will do alot for the people. I remember seeing something on T.V. called 30 days. It was a really good show on FX that talked about alot of problems and alot of things to help the problems of everyday people. I saw a show were the host was working on minimum wage for 30 days. In one segment of the program it showed how the church gave free furniture for those of need. They constantly do this for people too. I need to go to church more often. It shows a lesson that even if you have nothing to give in terms of money, they don't allow that to stop you from going there. Even if no money is put in the basket, which there should be because it would help you feel good, you don't get bad looks. Hopefully the whole world, can work together to help overcome poverty.

On a totally different thought, I think that America could do no wrong in legalizing weed. It would help the police force in working with the communities, more help would be given to the government all together. Why do you think the economy is doing so bad in terms of job's? It is because alot of people are getting turned away from jobs. In legalizing weed, alot of hardcore politics would say I am crazy. In the end, it would help. No one can tell me that America would end up becoming greedy, and wanting cocaine also legalized! Weed is a drug to help you mellow out and calm all of those tense thoughts that can get the better of you sometimes. Jobs would increase because of citizens not being so paranoid. Gangs would be able to walk down the street, not fighting over turf. Think of it this way. Gangs, or drug dealers, would be selling very harsh drugs that truely drain people's will. Weed does not drain it, nor does it show any long term effects. Not one writen document can show me facts of it being true because they don't want to in fear that people will be angered by cigerettes.... and alcohol.... still out there in the system. Which takes lives once everyday, at least. I am no TRUTH worker, screw them. They are run by people that use scare tactics to put an end to something that they want change for TOO damn quick. All it does is PO people. The truth of the matter is, America is DEAD set on our ideals. You give a poll to legalize it, around America. You will get results that would scare you. Look what America does, they sell PERSCRIPTION drugs such as Weed... Extacy... to people that are dying to ease the pain. Then you turn around and see people getting LOCKED UP for YEARS!!! People that have families. Just so the government can find another way to make a quick buck off the people. How about spreading the joy, through weed, early so everyone can live alittle bit more calm. The government looks at it as a way to adjust to something that is not American... Was anything written in the Constitution Of Rights about weed, and locking people up for having over a ounce? Regardless of that... baseball driven... 3 strike rule??? Bush has been shut out... damn... Hiring a Fema director that had no idea of INDEPENDANT WORKING. So you wait on the governer to allow... or maybe you make it up as an excuse.
That man was working with HORSES... he should have been working with LLAMA's...

We try our best to hold things together, the more you try...
The more you are going to break everyone apart...

heres a map disgnating which counties Bush covered in his 'declaration of emergency'. Anyone else notice an idiotic trend?

http://www.bobharris.com/content/view/637/1/

So I was reading this (http://www.chris-floyd.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=97&Itemid=1) and it became readily clear why Bush only declared a federal emergency for the least affected counties. He wanted to try to take credit for all the work being done while taking the lightest load, thereby leaving the worst affected counties to fend for themselves. He does a good job with the follow up here. (http://www.chris-floyd.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=103&Itemid=1)