The popular culture will always be eager to make excuses for your poor behavior
The poor behavior is a direct result of the way I have been treated, which was by poor behavior. And what is your excuse for mocking and creating a mean-spirited thread about me? The answer is that you don’t have one and have become even more of a hypocrite in the process and that’s sad.

In the end, neither you nor any other slacker youth will ever have to actually accomplish anything
How am I a “slacker”?
I’m going to either Portland State University, Oregon State University or Boise State University next year.
I don’t sit around watching MTV all day; I actually debate on forums and read books (even if you don’t approve who they are written by)
I have made and joined clubs at my school (IE The Democrats club etc)
I am involved in sports (IE: Track and Tennis)
I have been in Mock Trial for 2 years in a-row

Obviously I’m not wasting my life and going “nowhere”. I'm not rotting my brain watching MTV and not becoming un-interested in the political process. I'm not getting fucked up on drugs like a lot of kids these days and I'm clearly not a "slacker"...You obviously assume too much.

Mommy and Daddy (either individually or collectively) will always pay your way, bail you out, and take you in when your credit cards are maxed-out and the bills come due.
My parents are paying for my college and that’s it. I will be getting a job and paying for everything else. Yes, I’m sure they will help me out. But the CONDITION is that I have to be in college in order for them to supply me with ANY support.

The only way my parents will “bail me out” is if I am in college and getting good enough grades to stay for the next term etc. etc.. And I don't think that is a bad policy. Please don’t assume what my parents will do. Because they have made it VERY clear that if I drop out of college, get into the party scene and or get kicked out of college that I am ON MY OWN.

And when you post your ridiculous threads to any number of web-forums, nobody will ever call bullshit on you.
I’ve been on this forum for 2 years. Ever since I’ve been interested in politics I’ve been here and people have always called me on my “bullshit”

You are, after all, The Golden Child.
I'm so proud of you I could just weep.
What a privileged position to find yourself in!!
(Unaccountable and totally without limitations or Governance.)
God bless you my son.
Please, go forward with all your usual allforums postings and pop-culture soliloque’s, with all of our blessings.
I myself have learned a hard lesson, and will only have words of praise and adoration for you from here on out.
It’s the way of the world, after all.
:hugs:
Sarcasm, snide posts and generalizations without evidence is all you can provide.

http://www.1stcavmedic.com/Jane_Fonda/Jane-Fonda-Gun-72.jpg

See the shells ready to be fired at American pilots. Doesn't look like a broken down AA gun to me but more like one that is actively engaged in attempting to kill Americans.

This is what Jane Fonda had to say regarding the picture.

"I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an anti-aircraft gun, which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless."

I want Overdose to notice that she doesn't say she was tricked into posing and was only singing a Vietnames song. That is something she thought up later and included in her self serving book.

I've explained this a few times.

What she describes in her book is that she was singing a Vietnamese song she had learned. And since she did not speak the language very well everyone was laughing at her pronunciations and someone led her to that seat, where she sat down still laughing and singing, not realizing where exactly she was sitting. However, once she got up she realized what had happened. But it was too late, the cameras had already snapped shots of her sitting down for only 5 minutes, in a broken down anti-aircraft gun. And to be honest, that is a stupid mistake. However we all make mistakes and she has apologized and paid dearly for this one mistake (that took all of 5 minutes) she made over 30 years ago.
What the hell was the she doing hanging out and singing with the enemy anyway? Was she manipulated into doing that too? Exchanging giggles with people who operated the gun was no better than sitting on the gun.

I’m going to either Portland State University, Oregon State University or Boise State University next year.
I don’t sit around watching MTV all day; I actually debate on forums and read books (even if you don’t approve who they are written by)
I have made and joined clubs at my school (IE The Democrats club etc)
I am involved in sports (IE: Track and Tennis)


OK then, glad to hear it.
I retract my statements regarding your slacker status, and I applaud both your accomplishments and your commitment to achieving a brighter future through University education.

I wish you the best of luck, hope for you only the best.

You and I disagree violently on the topic of Jane Fonda, and I chose the wrong tactic when I decided to engage you with ridicule and animosity.

I concede that I have been unnecessarily mean-spirited, and I will do my best to control my sarcastic impulses from here on out.
In fact, I will avoid any sort of debate with ANYONE when it is clear that my opinion will not sway their opinion no matter what I say.

Example: Me criticizing somebody you obviously feel strongly about, arguing with Freethinker about whether the United States of America is a great place to live or not, or debating the merits of a Representative Democracy with Socialist.

Please carry on. I'm out of this thread for good.

What the hell was the she doing hanging out and singing with the enemy anyway? Was she manipulated into doing that too? Exchanging giggles with people who operated the gun was no better than sitting on the gun.
BINGO!

What the hell was the she doing hanging out and singing with the enemy anyway? Was she manipulated into doing that too? Exchanging giggles with people who operated the gun was no better than sitting on the gun.
How were the North Vietnamese our enemy? Just because our government said they were does not mean they actually were, not to mention she did not give any "aid and comfort" in any respect to the "supposed" enemy. Besides, we were the agressors in that war and were regularly bombing innocent civilians. What they were doing was defending their homeland and defending their children from being slaughtered by our bombs.

I want Overdose to notice that she doesn't say she was tricked into posing and was only singing a Vietnames song. That is something she thought up later and included in her self serving book.
I have said from day one that she admits that this was a mistake and has since apologized for it. Why you hold a photograph against someone for over 40 years is beyond my comprehension.

... Why you hold a photograph against someone for over 40 years is beyond my comprehension.


All you've done is read a book. Living through those times gives one a completely different understanding of the situation, one which you are incapable of understanding or accepting.

You chose to argue when this was posted before.

Told you so.

You chose to argue when this was posted before.

Told you so.
Yes and some Veterans have forgiven her and don't hold what she did so long ago against her.

Arguing against your own words now? Guess you've a split tongue as well.

Arguing against your own words now? Guess you've a split tongue as well.
How am I arguing against my own words? :@@:

How were the North Vietnamese our enemy? Just because our government said they were does not mean they actually were, not to mention she did not give any "aid and comfort" in any respect to the "supposed" enemy. Besides, we were the agressors in that war and were regularly bombing innocent civilians. What they were doing was defending their homeland and defending their children from being slaughtered by our bombs.The NVA and the US military were at war and killing each other on a massive scale. That made the NVA the enemy of the US military for that period of time, regardless of who started the war. And there was Jane Fonda, laughing and singing with the very people whom the US military was fighting. If you still don't understand why that causes so much anger, then you never will.

Jester,

I honestly think Overdose is incapable of getting it. He read a self serving book by Jane Fonda and got an idea in his head. It is now impossible for him to get it out of his head no matter how many facts he is presented with. He is simply in a state of total denial.

He says she was tricked into posing on the AA gun. Jane Fonda doesn't say that. She says it was the worst decision she ever made.

He says the North Vietnames weren't our enemies. He ignores the fact that they were trying to kill our soldiers.

He says they were only defending their country. He ignores the fact that they were in South Vietnam, not their country.

You cannot argue with Overdose. You can only present him with facts and then become more and more frustrated as he completely ignores them.

OD, can u shrink the PR Poster, please,its hurting my eyes. The Vietnam conflict was yet another sad chapter in US history,anything that divides a nation thus is sad,my fear is, the same attitudes that got America bogged down in an unwinable war there are repeating themeselves today.
Thanx for the pic Frogger.

Paul, if you are using firefox, you can use Adblock to block any image you wish. Just right-click on the image and click "Adblock Image..."

I aint Nap, but thanks, apart from that,its a false statement.Obama is the wrong shade of white to be President.

Ha, ain't that the truth!

He says she was tricked into posing on the AA gun. Jane Fonda doesn't say that. She says it was the worst decision she ever made.
There is actually a quote in her book that explains that she may have been manipulated into sitting there. You haven't read all of what she has said. Thanks.

He says the North Vietnames weren't our enemies. He ignores the fact that they were trying to kill our soldiers.
We made them our enemies by choice. We didn't have to get involved. They were of no threat to the United States.

He says they were only defending their country. He ignores the fact that they were in South Vietnam, not their country.
You ignore the fact that we were still bombing North Vietnam and killing innocent civilians in North Vietnam.

He also won't be able to hold up to the public scutiny that declared candidates undergo. He has a shady land deal in his past and probably the most liberal voting record in Congress.

Obama is just the flavor of the month and will not be in the final running.

He also won't be able to hold up to the public scutiny that declared candidates undergo. He has a shady land deal in his past and probably the most liberal voting record in Congress.
Sources?
Proof?

Don't ask me to do your homework for you Overdose. The shady land deal is common knowledge and has been reported in multiple sources. I am not surprised that someone who thinks Jane Fonda was tricked into sitting at a NVA anti-aircraft gun would be sceptical of it.

Oh, bye the way, was Jane Fonda also tricked into wearing a North Vietnames army helmet or was that just a prop for her song?

http://www.1stcavmedic.com/Jane_Fonda/Jane-Fonda-Gun-72.jpg

Don't ask me to do your homework for you Overdose.
It just seems odd that you can accuse someone of being the most "liberal" senator and then not even talk about their voting record or even bother comparing it to other senators.

The shady land deal is common knowledge and has been reported in multiple sources.
Maybe in the conservative world.

Oh, bye the way, was Jane Fonda also tricked into wearing a North Vietnames army helmet or was that just a prop for her song?
She wore it for safety. It was her choice, a choice I would have choosen as well. We were still bombing the areas she went into and safety was an issue. But I'm afraid I don't see how wearing a helmet and sitting at an anti-aircraft gun for 5 minutes provides "aid and comfort" to the enemy.

The girl behind Jane is very interesting,shes looking directly at our photographer as if she already knows the shit it will cause.

There is actually a quote in her book that explains that she may have been manipulated into sitting there. You haven't read all of what she has said. Thanks.

And I assume you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night also :rolleyes:

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/lehtinen200504290804.asp

April 29, 2005, 8:04 a.m.
Jane Fonda in Wonderland
Non-apology not accepted.

By Dexter Lehtinen

You may have heard that Jane Fonda apologized to Vietnam veterans in her current book. That's incorrect. She expressed "regret" for one photograph, but remains proud of her Radio Hanoi broadcasts, her efforts to achieve a Communist victory, and her attacks on American servicemen as war criminals. She never uses the word "apology."




Fonda’s latest foray into her past — with her pseudo-apology for having been photographed while sitting on a Communist North Vietnamese anti-aircraft gun, along with her continued vigorous defense of all other aspects of her trip to North Vietnam and her support for the North Vietnamese and Cambodian Communist wars — reminds us that apologies can be very tricky things. An unqualified apology offered with sincere regret for the full scope of the wrong by someone who recognizes the harm inflicted on others can help in reconciliation. But a "pseudo-apology," offered with limitations by someone who still defends the bulk of the wrong, only serves to aggravate the injury.

Everyone knows the negative effects of the common pseudo-apology, the refrain of which goes, "I'm sorry if I offended you." Pseudo-apologies attempt to subtly shift the blame to the injured party, who apparently misunderstood the good intentions of the offender.

So it is with Jane Fonda's book. In My Life So Far, "Hanoi Jane" expresses "regret" for one thing — being photographed with an anti-aircraft gun. "I do not regret that I went. My only regret about the trip was that I was photographed in a North Vietnamese antiaircraft gun site." Fonda amplifies: "That two minute lapse of sanity will haunt me until I die." She is "innocent of what the photo implies," but “the photo exists, delivering its message, regardless of what I was really doing or feeling." She makes it abundantly clear, without apology or regret, that what she was "really doing" was aiding the Communist enemy (who "touch our hearts"), and that what she was "really feeling" was that U.S. aviators were war criminals.

The photograph is not Fonda's primary transgression. Of course, the photo itself became the everlasting graphic proof of her outrageous behavior. So in a way Fonda is right — in practice, it is the photograph that reminds generations of who Jane Fonda really is. In her "regret," limited to the photograph alone, Vietnam veterans see Fonda’s endeavoring to ameliorate the harm to herself with virtually no regard to the harm she caused to others.

Hanoi Jane's wrongs go far beyond the photograph. First, of course, are the facts that she joined the enemy gun crew at all and made two visits to North Vietnam. Second, Fonda's self-initiated broadcasts on Radio Hanoi accused Americans of being war criminals. It was these broadcasts from the enemy's capital (not the gun photo) that gave her the lasting handle "Hanoi Jane" in emulation of "Tokyo Rose," an American who broadcast Japanese propaganda in World War II. In her self-proclaimed FTA ("F*** the Army”) rallies, she claimed that personal atrocities "were a way of life for many of our military".

Third, Fonda exploited American POWs for Communist gain, asserting that the POWs were being treated humanely following a Communist-controlled visit. In fact, the remarkable POWs who showed any resistance to the Fonda visit were beaten severely and she betrayed the POWs by falsely claiming that they expressed "disgust" and "shame" over what they had done. When the returning POWs reported their torture, showing their broken bodies as proof, Fonda called them "hypocrites and liars.” She claims in her book that she was "framed."

Fourth, Fonda ignored the non-Communist Vietnamese and Cambodians who resisted the Vietnamese Communists and the Cambodian Khmer Rouge, showing no concern for their fate. Fonda continued to support the Communists against indigenous non-Communists even after American withdrawal. She was not "anti-war"; she was "pro-war" — for a Communist victory. She was not even "anti-atrocity" per se, remaining silent on Communist executions of Vietnamese and Cambodian civilians (such as the 3,000 slaughtered with their hands tied in Hue in 1968, or the final tragedy following Communist victories in 1975).

Fonda's hopes for a Communist victory in South Vietnam and Cambodia were fulfilled. But her hopes for fame as an instrument of Communist achievements have been dashed on the rocks of reality — the truth about Communist malevolence and disregard for human dignity; the truth about the commitment by most American soldiers to honorable behavior; the truth about the torture and murder of American POWs. Now her efforts to promote commercial gain through a limited pseudo-apology, which is simultaneously withdrawn by a less visible (yet explicit) defense of her transgressions, will fail on the same rocks of reality.

Jane Fonda has always lived in a kind of Wonderland — where American POWs are liars and Communist tyrants are honorable men. Now she says that "the U.S. loss represented our nation's chance for redemption" and that the Communist victory "symbolizes hope for the planet." Her latest foray into the Vietnam War only shows that, unlike Alice, Jane Fonda has yet to emerge from Wonderland.

— Dexter Lehtinen was severely wounded as a reconnaissance platoon leader in Vietnam. He later graduated first in his class from Stanford Law School and served as a Florida state senator and United States Attorney for the Southern District of Florida.

It is always easy to post someone else's faulty opinion when you have nothing left to say. Have you read the book? Do you know if this person is lying or not? And I would say that the only thing Jane Fonda did that was wrong was...

1. Be photographed
2. Make a few statements that were un-fair to the POWs

Both of which she has apologized for and has paid for dearly. However, the main goal that she was trying to achieve in North Vietnam should be admired.

OD, can u shrink the PR Poster, please...
Yeah, how about to the point of nonexistence. It's just like an "educated", androgynous teenager to sing the praises of a man who's accomplished nothing during his whole YEAR in office, but because mommy (his best buddy and makeup pal) says that Barack Obama is such a well spoken, baby-kisser, he should run for president now.

How can these people BE so fucking dumb???