don't know where to put this topic, so thought I'd put it here.
I have read posts on this board referring to people who voted for Bush, or consider themselves conservative, like myself, followers of some kind of "reichwing" party.
I'm not sure if the people who use this term are fully aware of the history of Nazi Germany, their idealogy, or exactly what they did during the twelve years they were in power.
But I do know this--I have yet to see, in this country, concentration camps where trainloads of "undesirables" are dropped off to be gassed, beaten, hung, starved, or used for medical experiments. I have not witnessed a single book burning, tho there are those who may not like what I read, or what my kids read.....I have not seem gangs of thugs going around breaking store windows and burning stores because they are owned by those who are considered a menace by the government....I have not attended, or know anyone who has, party rallies with searchlights and "Seig Heils" being shouted in the background....I am unaware of any political or racial group being told to wear some kind of star or anything else of that sort to identify themselves. I have not seen, read about, or heard about, any of these things going on in the United States since Bush (I mean, Adolf Hitler) took office.
So when I see pictures of the President with a Hitler mustache drawn on his face, or read how I am supposedly a member of some kind of "new" National Socialist" party, or someone refers to my kids as "Hitler Jugend"--I don't know whether to laugh or throw up.

Originally posted by rendova
I have yet to see, in this country, concentration camps where trainloads of "undesirables" are dropped off to be gassed, beaten, hung, starved, or used for medical experiments.

I think your getting a little to literal with this. Your christian yes?

I am not a churchgoer, loki, and haven't been for years....tho I do belive in the teachings of Jesus Christ.....try not to be "in anyone's face" with this--I am not going to change anyone, nor they me....From what I've read, both Hitler and Himmler were both non-practicising Catholics...maybe I AM taking it too literally, just tired and sick of being compared to Eva Braun because I voted for Bush! Are THESE sorts a little too literal?

Ridiculous! We are not some imperial fascist dictator nation, those who make such comparisons are just narrow minded word twisters.

It seems to be the new way to get a point across, blow it way out of proportion. This doesn't include just one side or the other it includes everyone. I believe it started with our wonderfull media who loves to spice up a story, any story.

People who say that are just exaggerating the point; it's not a serious term. Still, you can't tell me that this country isn't taking away our civil liberties; I mean it's not a fascist dictatorship, YET, but freedom Ain't what it used to be. The patriot act was a huge reason people began referring to America as a fascist government. Also, if you’ve seen anything during the Republican National Convention in New York, then you’d see Martial Law isn’t too far behind. Then you got all these attacks domestic and over seas that has government cover up written all over it, as well as this phony war.

the same people who call us nazis are the same people who throw around the word racist. they believe anyone labeled in such a way has no right to continue an argument as no one wants to listen to a racist/nazi and anything they say from that point on is irrelevant

and please the truth, give us the list of things you cant do anymore after 9-11. what has been taken away from you?

Originally posted by Travh20
[Band please the truth, give us the list of things you cant do anymore after 9-11. what has been taken away from you? [/B]

First of all, Muslims are being persecuted. When the N.Y.C. subways were allowing random search and seizure, every single major newspaper excluding the Times showed men who looked to be from middle eastern background and Sheiks who wore turbans (people think that Muslims were turbans, idiots).

The patriot act allows a government official to randomly check you without a warrant or any evidence that you’re linked to terrorism. Big brother takes away privacy. The patriot act basically shreds the Bill Of Rights. http://www.infowars.com/print/patriot_act/alexs_analysis.htm
This site explains the whole patriot act ordeal.

There have been numerous occasions where little kids in elementary schools were put in handcuffs for getting a bit rowdy.

In the Republican Convention, you had guys who said they were with the secret police taking pictures of everyone. Then you had guys on the street with AK’s and also on the subway as well. I mean it was like something out of a fascist regime. To top it all off, you had big brother watching from a blimp.
http://www.infowars.com/goodphotos.html
This one shows a good amount of pictures and info on how martial law is being used.

During Mr. Bush’s inaugural, the people were told that they would be detained if they even stared at Mr. Bush too long or in a funny way. That’s very dictatoresq in my perspective.

Don’t forget what happened in Kent on 1970 or what happened on 2003.

Originally posted by thetruth05
First of all, Muslims are being persecuted. When the N.Y.C. subways were allowing random search and seizure, every single major newspaper excluding the Times showed men who looked to be from middle eastern background and Sheiks who wore turbans (people think that Muslims were turbans, idiots).

good. search all arab men. random searches are pointless and a waste of resources.

Originally posted by thetruth05
The patriot act allows a government official to randomly check you without a warrant or any evidence that you’re linked to terrorism. Big brother takes away privacy. The patriot act basically shreds the Bill Of Rights. http://www.infowars.com/print/patriot_act/alexs_analysis.htm
This site explains the whole patriot act ordeal.

I am sure you know dozens of people who have been affected by this, as we all do.


Originally posted by thetruth05
There have been numerous occasions where little kids in elementary schools were put in handcuffs for getting a bit rowdy.

I am not sure why you think this is due to the patriot act.

Originally posted by thetruth05
In the Republican Convention, you had guys who said they were with the secret police taking pictures of everyone. Then you had guys on the street with AK’s and also on the subway as well. I mean it was like something out of a fascist regime. To top it all off, you had big brother watching from a blimp.
http://www.infowars.com/goodphotos.html
This one shows a good amount of pictures and info on how martial law is being used. .

I am sure all underocver secret service men identify themselves before taking a picture of someone fo rtheir secret government files. more like some idiot claiming to be secret service and taking your picture because they were either perverts or wanted people to go around saying "secret service was taking our pictures!"

and if people were running around with AK's we ahve a problem. of course our military and law enforcement use MP-5's or M-4's, so anyone seen with an AK was obviously a terrorist.

Originally posted by thetruth05
During Mr. Bush’s inaugural, the people were told that they would be detained if they even stared at Mr. Bush too long or in a funny way. That’s very dictatoresq in my perspective. .

and someone told me once if I sat on cold rocks I would get hemmeroids, that doesnt neccesarily make it true

Originally posted by thetruth05
Don’t forget what happened in Kent on 1970 or what happened on 2003.

ok, what happened on 2003?

Originally posted by rendova
I am not a churchgoer, loki, and haven't been for years....tho I do belive in the teachings of Jesus Christ.....try not to be "in anyone's face" with this--I am not going to change anyone, nor they me....From what I've read, both Hitler and Himmler were both non-practicising Catholics...maybe I AM taking it too literally, just tired and sick of being compared to Eva Braun because I voted for Bush! Are THESE sorts a little too literal? I can assure you that liberals find it equally aggravating when they're called communists.

Originally posted by thetruth05
First of all, Muslims are being persecuted. When the N.Y.C. subways were allowing random search and seizure, every single major newspaper excluding the Times showed men who looked to be from middle eastern background and Sheiks who wore turbans (people think that Muslims were turbans, idiots). I think you mean "Sikhs," not "Sheiks." But you're right, almost every person I've seen wearing a turban in this country was Sikh, not Muslim.

Originally posted by Travh20
ok, what happened on 2003?

People were arrested during a peaceful march from Kent State to city streets nearby. The protest was for the 1970 incident. In fact, I believe 9 people were trying to sue the city for the incident, don't know the out come though.

Originally posted by Jester
I can assure you that liberals find it equally aggravating when they're called communists.

in the true sense of the word, communism isn't a bad thing. i take no offence to it. most people hate communism because ya can't get rich under it. communism in it's true sense, is more like what jesus taught. except the whole religion thing. every ideaology has to go through periods of learning and re-adjustment.

i used to think i was an anarchist. not in the violent sense that many people associate with it, but i believe that since so many people are violent and greedy, the one self ideaology of anarchism is off base. the sharing aspect of communism is good but it's learned reality made it anti-religion.

what do you call a mixture of those things? believe what you want, leave everyone else alone, and share.

Originally posted by ivan
in the true sense of the word, communism isn't a bad thing. i take no offence to it. most people hate communism because ya can't get rich under it. communism in it's true sense, is more like what jesus taught. except the whole religion thing. every ideaology has to go through periods of learning and re-adjustment.

i used to think i was an anarchist. not in the violent sense that many people associate with it, but i believe that since so many people are violent and greedy, the one self ideaology of anarchism is off base. the sharing aspect of communism is good but it's learned reality made it anti-religion.

what do you call a mixture of those things? believe what you want, leave everyone else alone, and share. The problem with communism is that goes against human nature and psychology and therefore can't realistically be implemeted. People just won't willingly give up their property they earn for the good of the society. That's why true communism is little more than a pipe dream. Anarchy has a similar problem; human nature just won't allow for it.

As for the original topic, I personally do take offense to being called a communist since I absolutely disagree with communism.

I think the point is that all of these types of government (or lack thereof) should exist so that people can live where and how they please.

Anarchic zones should exist.
Libertarian zones should exist.
Communist zones should exist.

Unfortunatly Capitalism seeks to dominate every aspect of everything and therefore makes such things nearly impossible. All it takes is a few assholes ruin it for everyone else.

examples:

Stalin, Pol pot, Mao, Ho, Hitler,.

I guess the difference between capitalism and communism is the number of assholes it takes to ruin everything. In communism you need only 1, in democracy you need a majority.

In fairness, Stalin wasn't a Communist - he thought he should be the Czar, while everyone else should be a Communist:D

seems like the only people who wnat anyone to be communists are either living in democracies or dictators

Originally posted by rendova
don't know where to put this topic, so thought I'd put it here.
I have read posts on this board referring to people who voted for Bush, or consider themselves conservative, like myself, followers of some kind of "reichwing" party.
I'm not sure if the people who use this term are fully aware of the history of Nazi Germany, their idealogy, or exactly what they did during the twelve years they were in power.

Look at the definition of "fascism:"

Fascism- a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

I think that definition applies a lot more to what we have today. It's just a different kind of fascism, an ostensibly more "compassionate" form of fascism. All of those Nazis we brought over here after WWII learned their lessons well. You have to be subtle these days. What you give the people is an illusion, and despite the facts (that millionaires walk past homeless people every day is just one of them) the American People will believe the big lie. They will go to the polls (if they're even allowed, as some were not in Florida in 2000), and they will choose tweedle-dee or tweedle-dumb. And they will be told they are so great because they are AMERICANS, and somehow in this war against endless evil, they are exalted in God's eyes.

You don't need an individual dictator. The whole SYSTEM itself serves as that dictatorship. Bush is just a figurehead puppet.

Severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition is very much in place in the USA. It's just cleverly hidden behind a big lie, the myth of American democracy. RIP American democracy, I say. If it ever even existed in the first place.

The choice of joining or supporting political parties that don't have a snowball's chance in hell merely gives the illusion of democracy. And you are free to read a "progressive" magazine like Mother Jones, or Village Voice for now, but for me it's like saying you have freedom to buy the brand of beer you enjoy. It's all a sham. The dissenting voices and the opposition have no widespread popularity. If they ever do, the fascism of the ruling elite will very quickly become a lot clearer and more obvious. But by then, it will become not only obvious, but it will be too late to do anything about it.

Bush is not the real problem, nor the republicans, or even the democrats. It's all window dressing. Bush is an idiot and a toady for the Corporatists. Gore would've been an equally big toady.

The whole system is corrupt, and needs replacing. How can that be done? I'm not sure it can anymore. So, about all a person can do is go their individual way and try to influence the people around them, and when they've had enough, they can take the advice we've all heard 1000 times since 911, to "love it or leave it."

Since I can't "love" what is clearly inhuman and reprehensible, if I ever gather together the necessary funds, I'll just leave. America will likely go up in flames soon, just as other fascist governments have.

Originally posted by Freethinker
Severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition is very much in place in the USA. It's just cleverly hidden behind a big lie, the myth of American democracy. RIP American democracy, I say. If it ever even existed in the first place.

The choice of joining or supporting political parties that don't have a snowball's chance in hell merely gives the illusion of democracy. An American comic in the UK described elections as having as much impact on the public as a sign saying 'under new management' at a porno cinema.

Originally posted by Jester
The problem with communism is that goes against human nature and psychology and therefore can't realistically be implemeted. People just won't willingly give up their property they earn for the good of the society. That's why true communism is little more than a pipe dream. Anarchy has a similar problem; human nature just won't allow for it.


What is this "human nature"?

Why doesn't it manifest itself 100% in human behavior? Why do humans sometimes act greedy, and at other times behave self-sacrificingly? If there was such a thing as "human nature", it would have to be somewhat consistent. So far, the case for "human nature" being an obstacle to communist development is scant.

Communism would be extending democratic decision making and control to the economy (production and distribution) and thus to all spheres of human existence, since all social realtionships are in some way related to economics. Democratic decision making has been proven to work. This is an established fact, so I've yet to encounter an empirical reason that communism can't be implemented.

I read about a group of people in Louisiana who after the storm passed, expropriated a bus. They then pooled their money to purchase necessary things like diapers and food. They didn't wait for the government to help them, they took what they needed and cooperated. That's socialism in action.

This discussion about "human nature" highlights the difference between bourgeois thinking and the marxist theory of historical materialism. Thus far the most that bourgeois ideologists have been able to say is . . . "shit happens cos it does." Marxism can at least offer some sort of analysis that explains human and social behavior.

Why doesn't it manifest itself 100% in human behavior? Why do humans sometimes act greedy, and at other times behave self-sacrificingly? If there was such a thing as "human nature", it would have to be somewhat consistent. So far, the case for "human nature" being an obstacle to communist development is scant.

Human nature is to act in your own self intrest, every human action that has ever or will ever be undertaken has been done to fulfill self intrests. There is no other way to act.

Communism would be extending democratic decision making and control to the economy (production and distribution) and thus to all spheres of human existence, since all social realtionships are in some way related to economics. Democratic decision making has been proven to work. This is an established fact, so I've yet to encounter an empirical reason that communism can't be implemented.

I am not a number, some digit to be used by a distant body to determine production and distribution. I am a soverign individual with control over myself. I do not belong to you.

I read about a group of people in Louisiana who after the storm passed, expropriated a bus. They then pooled their money to purchase necessary things like diapers and food. They didn't wait for the government to help them, they took what they needed and cooperated. That's socialism in action.

No, that's Capitalism in action. They believe that their money will work better when pooled together voluntarily. That is what a coorporation is. Socialism would be if they forced other people to cooperate with them.

This discussion about "human nature" highlights the difference between bourgeois thinking and the marxist theory of historical materialism. Thus far the most that bourgeois ideologists have been able to say is . . . "shit happens cos it does." Marxism can at least offer some sort of analysis that explains human and social behavior.

So you can just...disregard the volumes of analysis, study, and evidence on human society and human nature advanced by people like Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman, F. A. Hayek, Adam Smith, Rose Wilder Lane, Isabel Paterson, David Boaz, and lord knows how many other "bourgeois thinkers" that do or have existed.

Originally posted by rendova
don't know where to put this topic, so thought I'd put it here.
I have read posts on this board referring to people who voted for Bush, or consider themselves conservative, like myself, followers of some kind of "reichwing" party.
I'm not sure if the people who use this term are fully aware of the history of Nazi Germany, their idealogy, or exactly what they did during the twelve years they were in power.
But I do know this--I have yet to see, in this country, concentration camps where trainloads of "undesirables" are dropped off to be gassed, beaten, hung, starved, or used for medical experiments. I have not witnessed a single book burning, tho there are those who may not like what I read, or what my kids read.....I have not seem gangs of thugs going around breaking store windows and burning stores because they are owned by those who are considered a menace by the government....I have not attended, or know anyone who has, party rallies with searchlights and "Seig Heils" being shouted in the background....I am unaware of any political or racial group being told to wear some kind of star or anything else of that sort to identify themselves. I have not seen, read about, or heard about, any of these things going on in the United States since Bush (I mean, Adolf Hitler) took office.
So when I see pictures of the President with a Hitler mustache drawn on his face, or read how I am supposedly a member of some kind of "new" National Socialist" party, or someone refers to my kids as "Hitler Jugend"--I don't know whether to laugh or throw up.

It is called the Death sentence. Certain states such as NJ will not use the death chair because lawyers had a practice called niggers by the pound.

The tools of hate not passing anti-hate crime bills and refusing to enforce the laws that are on the books to punish folk like the ones who killed Mr. Bird. The fact that Mr. Dees had to go in to hiding when he filed law suites that broke the KKK for the hanging of a Mr. McDonald in the 1980's.
The undesirables are folk of color and gays.

The fact that they now have rules for medical experimentations because of the
Syphilis experiment.


The place that truck loads of folk are being taken is called prison were the law judges folk not on the crime but more alone the lines of economics status and skin color. Thus the Term DWB and the Stleers cousin who was chocked to death when a cop sat on him because he was driving a Bentley.

The guy who was shot over 50 times because they mistaken his wallet for a gun.

the point on concerning files have been pulled from on line sources that pertain to the Bush administration and his record on civil rights and the boondocks has been pulled from a vast number of newspapers.
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