In my beating this The United States is in a Culture War with Islamists thing to death, I've come across a new article by Amir Taheri, he outlines the Iranian government's plans scrapping any hope for Iranian democracy, getting rid of any Western influence in the Middle East, allying with China and India. The details of Iran's manifesto are supposed to be detailed in a somewhat large document presented to the Iranian Majlis. (It means parliment, dammit.)


The Iranian government plans are as follows:

First off, there will be NO democratic reform in Iran. Any "alternative" forms of government are incompatible with Islam and it ain't going to happen. Period.

Then there is the bit about Iran being ruled by the decrees of God through the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who is the "Supreme Guide" of Iran. Ali Khamenei has flat out stated that he isn't going to allow Bush to succeed with the idea of planting Western style democracy ANYWHERE in the Middle East, but notably in Iraq and Afghanistan.


Then there is the statement that the Middle East is heading for a clash of cultures with the U.S. (Have I not said this before?) The Iranian government doesn't stomach American "hegemony" too well and will resist it. They believe that God is on their side and the U.S., because of it's excessive material wealth isn't fit to fight against Islamist Jihad.

The Iranian government envisions a "multipolar" world with "sunrise" powers such as India, China and, of course, Iran. The United States and Europe will be "sunset" nations whose sphere of influence will fade away.

Iran, this document claims, has a divine right to rule, they will be the center of Islamic power around which other Muslim nations will coalesce. Islam is the "final divine message" and "only true faith" around which the entire world will fall under. Allah, is on the side of Iran and cannot fail.

Iranian domestic policy will be just as interesting. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has worked out a strategy will the central government will play a significant role in the lives of Iranian. This government will be part of the lives of every Iranian from birth to death. It will decide what they access on the 'net, what books are available, what music is listened to, what leisure activists are available and will be the ward of education in Iraq. Also, the Iranian countryside will be transformed. The 66,0000 villages around Iraq will be condensed into 10,000 which will allow the Iranian government to better supervise those citizens in the countryside as well as providing cheaper and more effecient domestic services.

OH, and the Iranian government WILL DEVELOP NUCLEAR WEAPONS, no matter what the rest of the world says or does.

And as a final bit of trivia, Iran is getting some 200 million dollars a DAY in oil revenue, so money isn't going to be what limits the Iranians from going about their ambitions. And they are about to announce their Grand Strategy to the U.N. sometime soon.

This is going to be fun.


With all this fun news out of Iran, can we not put to rest the controversy over whether or not the U.S. (and the West, I might add) is in a culture war with Islamists?

Should it not be clear, that no matter what Bush did after 9/11, the Islamists would've hated the U.S. anyway? I did say that the Islamists are not going to leave the West alone no matter what we do, I think I'm right on this one. This is what I hate about the "peace" activists. They go after the wrong people. The question I've always asked is "peace with who?" The Bin Laden types-and don't fool yourselves into thinking they aren't the ones running the Iranian goverment-don't want peace.

Can we get past the silly "Bush lied about Iraq" bit and focus on the true threats to National Security? Is that possible? Bin Laden attacked the U.S. long before Bush invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. The 9/11 planning was in place long before Bush took office and the U.S. has been dealing with Iran and its little Islamic ambitions since they took Iran in '79. The situation in the world we find ourselves in has been brewing for almost 30 years now. This partisan bickering has got to end.


Seeing as how the Iranian Government and Victor Chavez of Venezuela are getting rich off of thier oil revenues and have demonstrated that they are way less than friendly with the U.S., isn't it about high time we in the U.S. start making itself independent for its oil needs. There are vast reserves in the Gulf of Mexico, off the coast of California and in Alaska. Plus the tar sands in Canada which hold vast reserves of oil. When are we going to stop playing around with silly environmental laws and start getting down to business of not being dependent on unfriendly nations for our oil. It's a bad idea to feed the dogs that bites our hands. Dammit.

Amir Taheri article (http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/17947)

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
With all this fun news out of Iran, can we not put to rest the controversy over whether or not the U.S. (and the West, I might add) is in a culture war with Islamists?

If the author of the article is correct it presents a rather grim scenario. I guess we'll have to wait and see what Iran says at the UN.


Can we get past the silly "Bush lied about Iraq" bit and focus on the true threats to National Security?

I hardly think allegations like that are silly Darth.

Is that possible? Bin Laden attacked the U.S. long before Bush invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. The 9/11 planning was in place long before Bush took office and the U.S. has been dealing with Iran and its little Islamic ambitions since they took Iran in '79. The situation in the world we find ourselves in has been brewing for almost 30 years now. This partisan bickering has got to end.

I agree...the bickering should end...we should do things my way. :D


Seeing as how the Iranian Government and Victor Chavez of Venezuela are getting rich off of thier oil revenues and have demonstrated that they are way less than friendly with the U.S., isn't it about high time we in the U.S. start making itself independent for its oil needs. There are vast reserves in the Gulf of Mexico, off the coast of California and in Alaska. Plus the tar sands in Canada which hold vast reserves of oil. When are we going to stop playing around with silly environmental laws and start getting down to business of not being dependent on unfriendly nations for our oil. It's a bad idea to feed the dogs that bites our hands.

Yes! We should invade Canada and dig up or drill or whatever you do with tar sands....we could take the Canadians, and we wouldn't piss off any more Islamists!

BTW, those environmental laws aren't silly either...at least not as silly as your attempt to dismiss them. Perhaps we shouldn't be driving quite so many SUV's, hmmm?

Vile,

Are environmental laws in place to protect the environment and people, or are they a wall to stop developement? That is the question. Oh, and I read someplace that since 1980, the average MPG on motor vehicles fell by only two miles per gallon. And, if looking for reasons why America is short on oil, SUVs are a poor starting point and an easy scapegoat. Factor in home heating, tractor trailers trucks, trains, ships, airliners and electrical power production and SUVs are a drop in the bucket. Dammit.

So why did the Persians depose the Taleban for you, if there's a 'culture war' with 'the West'?

Ungrateful little geek.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Vile,

Are environmental laws in place to protect the environment and people, or are they a wall to stop developement?

A wall to stop development? Who builds these walls, and what is their reason if it's not to protect the environment?


That is the question. Oh, and I read someplace that since 1980, the average MPG on motor vehicles fell by only two miles per gallon. And, if looking for reasons why America is short on oil, SUVs are a poor starting point and an easy scapegoat. Factor in home heating, tractor trailers trucks, trains, ships, airliners and electrical power production and SUVs are a drop in the bucket. Dammit.

It was a metaphor Darth. The fact is that the US represents 5% of the worlds population, and we consume 25% of the energy. That's just wrong.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
The fact is that the US represents 5% of the worlds population, and we consume 25% of the energy. That's just wrong.

No doubt we waste quite a bit of it. But we're also one of the, if not the most, productive countries on the planet. So that has to count for something.

Spartak,

Do you have a source detailing how the "Persians" deposed the Taliban for us? Or is talking out of your ass what your best at?

And also, if you read the article on what the new president elect for Iran is planning for that Nation, as well as various other articles on terrorism, plus Osama Bin Laden's own words, you WOULD realize that the West is at war with the Islamists.



Have a nice day.

Dammit.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal Spartak, Do you have a source detailing how the "Persians" deposed the Taliban for us? Or is talking out of your ass what your best at? You need a source to tell you that ethnic Tajiks in Afghanistan are Persians? Ok, correction: ungrateful, dumbarsed little geekOriginally posted by Darth Be'lal
And also, if you read the article on what the new president elect for Iran is planning for that Nation, as well as various other articles on terrorism, plus Osama Bin Laden's own words, you WOULD realize that the West is at war with the Islamists.
The US has declared 'War' against a couple of thousand Sunni nerds who have a Hitler fetish. Iran and Bin Laden's Islamo-fascists despise each other and this may break out into a war somewhere in the region, but Iran is the BIG winner from the US-led invasion of Iraq, so while Iran's enemies are (incompetently) fighting each other she definitely shouldn't appear in any BS about a 'Culture War with Islamists'
Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Amir Taheri article (http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/17947)
Part fairground fortune-telling, part bollocks.
Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Have a nice dayYep, repeat that sentence often enough and it'll create a few more suicide bombers.

Seeing as how the Iranian Government and Victor Chavez of Venezuela are getting rich off of thier oil revenues and have demonstrated that they are way less than friendly with the U.S., isn't it about high time we in the U.S. start making itself independent for its oil needs. There are vast reserves in the Gulf of Mexico, off the coast of California and in Alaska. Plus the tar sands in Canada which hold vast reserves of oil. When are we going to stop playing around with silly environmental laws and start getting down to business of not being dependent on unfriendly nations for our oil. It's a bad idea to feed the dogs that bites our hands. Dammit. Its Hugo Chavez.

Well I see you like running the same dead end course. How about alternative fuel research in the mean time. Or demand for more fuel efficient cars. Or a demand to reinstate the vast Public (trolly)transportation system this country once had.

The problem with all of these is that they go against the profit structure of the Highway Lobby. A consortium of gas, car, tire and other related companies. They are one of the many owners of congress. They were the ones who destroyed the public transportation system in this country and they are the ones who will directly profit from declining oil resources.

Big business capitalism has all the answers doesn't it Darth...
:@@:

More of spartak's garbage,

I can't believe I wasted my time having to sort out who the "Persians" or the Tajiks where when all that really mattered was that native Afghani's welcomed and helped the U.S. forces get rid of the Taliban. Which is a real DUH! type statement. Of course they did, they were sick of Taliban style theocracy. Which is why American forces so swiftly defeated the Taliban and Afghanistan is so damn quiet compared to Iraq. There are muslims that feel that they need to embrace Western ideals to catch up with Western progress, and there are Muslims that believe embracing true Islam will bring back the wealth and glory that the Middle East once had, I've posted my thoughts on this before, and I'm not going to bother reposting those thoughts here again. Geez. I can't believe I just had to go and explain that water is wet.

so while Iran's enemies are (incompetently) fighting each other she definitely shouldn't appear in any BS about a 'Culture War with Islamists'

Yes, and a 7,000 word document that presented to the Iranian Parliment detailing that the Iranian government is going to reject ANY form of Western government ideals, is going to do its best to prevent the U.S. from establishing a democratic government, is going to ally with America's enemies, chiefly China, oh, and that the Middle East heading for a "clash of civilizations" with Iran bearing the banner of Islam, while the U.S. represents the West. Tell, spartak, did you even bother to read the link I posted before you got that bad case of diarheah of the mouth?

The Amir Taheri article, spartaks quote:

Part fairground fortune-telling, part bollocks.

Yes, an article detailing what Iranian President elect Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has presented to the Iranian Parliment in which Iran's foreign and domestic policy are clearly spelled out as well as the ideals that will motivate Iran's policies is merely "fairground fortune telling and bollocks."

Pull the head out of your ass, spartak, that article and its conclusions are pretty damn accurate.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
I can't believe I wasted my time having to sort out who the "Persians" or the Tajiks where when all that really mattered was that native Afghani's welcomed and helped the U.S. forces get rid of the Taliban. Which is a real DUH! type statement. I think he was alluding to the fact that Islamists from different cultures can't always be lumped together as one big entity. Such a notion ignores cultural and religious differences between different groups, as well as any enmity or resentment that may exist between them, eg. between Arabs and Persians, Sunnis and Shiites, Persians and Pashtuns, etc. Acknowledging the differences between various Islamists, rather than simply bunching them all together will allow us to fight them more effectively. Calling it "The West versus radical Islam" is, on its own, too simplistic to be of any use.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Which is why American forces so swiftly defeated the Taliban
Oh right, so the fighting was done by Americans dressed up as Tajiks, Uzbeks and Khazars - masters of disguise!

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
that article and its conclusions are pretty damn accurate. The wisdom of Amir Taheri:
"The only other Muslim country capable of rivaling it (Iran) —Turkey—has decided to abandon the Muslim world and join the European Union.". Now Taheri - as a former propagandist for a foreign puppet dictator - is surely aware that Turkey has voted in the most Islamist leader in the nation's history, so I'll assume you are not serious when you call it 'accurate'.
Maybe you're posting a sophisticated kind of post-ironic satire, lampooning all the irrational cowardice of the NYP's Daniel Pipes and all the other paranoid-of-all-Moslems fairies. One of Taheri's articles is indeed taken from the NYP.

Iranians obviously haven't forgotten that their democratic government was overturned by the West in order to make them live under a Saddam-style puppet-tyrant, and still remember Uncle Sam crawling up Saddam's arse when he attacked their country with poison gas, and now you break the earth-shattering news that, wait for it...., Iran is opposed to the US interfering in the region.
Shock! Horror! Well, f*** me backwards! Who'd have thought it, they don't believe all that 'spreading democracy and Western-style progress' stuff.
It's not just Mad Mullahs who treat all that touchy-feely-faggoty crap with contempt. It makes most Westerners throw up as well.