Who do you think is the most important MILITARY figure in history and why?

Good topic! I love these historical questions.
My vote goes to General George Washington. Though there were greater tactiticians and bolder leaders, this was a man who kept his men's faith against overwhelming odds fighting the greatest Army of that time. Poorly equipped, hungry, literally barefoot in the snow at Valley Forge, this ragtag army and their great leader persevered and triumphed. His personal intergrity, honesty, and fairness towards all made him the beloved figure in our history--with good reason.

"First in war, first in peace, first in the hearts of his countrymen."
"Lighthorse" Harry Lee at Washington's funeral oration.

I'd go with General Robert E. Lee. Although his side lost the civil war, he had the greatest strategic mind of any general that I have ever seen or read.

I've always had a soft spot for Omar Bradley.

In the modern era, I would like to nominate General Billy Mitchell. He forced the armed forces of the united states to seriously consider the uses of airpower, especially in its application to naval warfare. Without his contributions we probably would have started World War II without any aircraft carriers.

1. Chingiz Khan - Biggest Empire the world has ever known, which is not bad for a poor peasant born in a tent. Iraq has still not recovered from his boys' little visit.

2. Alexander Macedon - Simply the best. Unbeaten and unbeatable, but died before he could consolidate his gains.

3. Georgy Zhukov - The man who beat Nazi Germany and saved Europe, gave the Japanese such a kicking they gave up straight away, AND he stood up to Stalin - easily the greatest military figure of the last 100 years.

4. Duke of Wellington - the real First World War was the Napoleonic War, and he kicked Napolean's fat Corsican arse.

5. George Washington - Like Wellington, another British Army hero, who masterminded an excellent campaign against the French. Later went a bit mad, rebelled, and founded his own republic in some far-flung backwater of the Empire;)

Originally posted by Spartak
Georgy Zhukov - The man who beat Nazi Germany and saved Europe, gave the Japanese such a kicking they gave up straight away, AND he stood up to Stalin - easily the greatest military figure of the last 100 years.

I tend to agree. He certainly was the finest Russian general of all time.


Duke of Wellington - the real First World War was the Napoleonic War, and he kicked Napolean's fat Corsican arse.

Wellington was good, but Napoleon's defeat was brought about by naval actions as well. Napoleon needed an empire to keep the army functioning well, and the British Navy prevented him from having one.


George Washington - Like Wellington, another British Army hero, who masterminded an excellent campaign against the French. Later went a bit mad, rebelled, and founded his own republic in some far-flung backwater of the Empire;)

I think it was the George on your side of the pond that was a bit daft, and we told him so...:)

To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us, in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.[/b]

Good old Crazy George. :D

Originally posted by Vilepagan

I think it was the George on your side of the pond that was a bit daft, and we told him so...:)
I know, I was having a laugh - I'm a fan of Washington, but could not place him in the top four because he should have won the war. Many British Army officers resigned their commission rather than attack those they saw as fellow countrymen, it was a home game for the Americans, and they had the backing of the French.

The British Army gave the world Wellington (Brilliant statesman), George Washington (Brilliant statesman), and... Idi Amin. Oh well, can't be perfect.

Originally posted by Spartak
1. Chingiz Khan - Biggest Empire the world has ever known, which is not bad for a poor peasant born in a tent. Iraq has still not recovered from his boys' little visit.

2. Alexander Macedon - Simply the best. Unbeaten and unbeatable, but died before he could consolidate his gains.

3. Georgy Zhukov - The man who beat Nazi Germany and saved Europe, gave the Japanese such a kicking they gave up straight away, AND he stood up to Stalin - easily the greatest military figure of the last 100 years.

4. Duke of Wellington - the real First World War was the Napoleonic War, and he kicked Napolean's fat Corsican arse.

5. George Washington - Like Wellington, another British Army hero, who masterminded an excellent campaign against the French. Later went a bit mad, rebelled, and founded his own republic in some far-flung backwater of the Empire;)


Hah, uncanny relationship to my list picks

General George S. Patton Jr. - probably the greatest war strategist the USA has ever produced. If the politicians would've listened to him, the cold war never would've happened.

Worthless politicians always leave us with another war to fight. If Bush Sr. would've listened to Schwartzkopf, we never would've had to go back to Iraq. Same with Truman and MacArthur-another brilliant General. It goes on and on.

Was it Bismarck that said 'War is too important to be left to the politicians'?

I would put Lee up against Patton anyday.

Lee was very good, no doubt. Second in his class at West Point, and combined with Stonewall Jackson, they were almost unstoppable.
Lee blundered badly at Gettysburg tho, sending Pickett's men against Cemetery Ridge where the almost full might of the Union side under Winfield Scott Hancock was massed. I believe it was Longstreet who told Lee, "Sir, there's not an army who ever lived that could take that hill." Longstreet was against this attack but Lee said, "The enemy is there and I'm going to take him". The Confederates never recovered from this ill-advised charge and I do believe that if Jackson were there, the battle may have gone differently. Other factors played a big role, such as Jeb Stuart's not reporting in until it was too late. Lee did accept full responsibility for the blunder and a few days later offered to resign, but Jefferson Davis would not accept it.

no votes for Hannibal?!
He won one of the greatest victories of all time against the Romans at Canae (spelling?)--outnumbered almost 10 to one. Wow. Also I believe the German High Command in WWI was using his battle plan but failed to pull it off properly.

How come no one said Jesus?

Jesus was a military figure???

Doesn't he fight the worst of all, satan, sin?

1.Ghengis Khan

There are many more out there such as:
Alexander Macedon,George Patton, Napoleon Bonaparte, Stonewall Jackson, Hannibal, Joan of Arc, Julius Caesar, El Cid, Robert E. Lee, Frederick the Great, Erwin Rommel, Attila the Hun, etc

But i chose Ghengis (Chingiz sometimes) because of his impressive feats. A peasant boy who spent his life as a prisoner of another tribe rose up and made the largest empire the world has ever known, he was one of the first to use biological warfare, made perhaps the best use of terror tactics, and more.
He deserves the title.

I kinda like Richard the Lion-hearted (Richard I) too. Even tho he was a not-good king, he was a dashing sort of guy and makes interesting reading. Had a cool last line too.:)

which was?

Originally posted by rendova
no votes for Hannibal?!
He won one of the greatest victories of all time against the Romans at Canae (spelling?)--outnumbered almost 10 to one. Wow. Also I believe the German High Command in WWI was using his battle plan but failed to pull it off properly.
I voted for Hannibal in a Greatest-Military-figure poll, but since this is 'most influential', and Hannibal was unable to capitalise on his stunning military victories, I couldn't put him in.

Richard I was beseiging a minor fortress in France--this guy waged almost nonstop war....the defenders were running out of ammunition and catching the arrows being shot at them by Richard's men..one guy was using a frying pan to catch the arrows, if I remember all this rightly...Richard was admiring this man's ingenuity when this same man shot HIM...in trying to pull the arrow out, he left the head in..this became gangrenous and Richard suffered for days..just before he died he sent for the man who had shot him. He was expecting a fearsome punishment but Richard said, "I forgive you. Live on, and by my bounty behold the light of day.". Great last line!

But the poor guy receieved no such mercy. I believe it was Richard's sister who had the guy pulled apart by horses. They sure were nice in those days!

Originally posted by mad dog
Doesn't he fight the worst of all, satan, sin?

Hmm...you might have a point there. I half vote for that too. :D

Originally posted by mad dog
Doesn't he fight the worst of all, satan, sin?
Yes, but is he winning?

Originally posted by Spartak
I voted for Hannibal in a Greatest-Military-figure poll, but since this is 'most influential', and Hannibal was unable to capitalise on his stunning military victories, I couldn't put him in.

Never said it 'most influential' :/

You could've put hannibal

Originally posted by Spartak
Yes, but is he winning?
No :)

Originally posted by Evakian
Never said it 'most influential' :/

You could've put hannibal
Sorry, yes it's most important isn't it.
And since I've used as criteria their impact on the world, I probably should have found a place for Ataturk.

I'm embarassed to admit i've never heard of Araturk. Who was this fella!
Also, please give more background on Ghengis Khan. I'm afraid that all I've ever heard about him was that he was a hopeless barbarian. Is this the truth? Is he truly Alexander's equal or better?

Alexander's equal or better?

Answer: better

Ghengis khan may have been barbarous, but not a mindless barbarian

He was the first to use biological warfare, however crude (tossing corpses that have been afflicted with plague over the enemies walls during a siege)

He conquered more land than ever in history

He struck fear ALL over the lands that ever heard of him because of his cruelty, quickness, and power

He used brilliant original tactics (such as the use of children and women riding on horseback with the army to seemingly increase their size in the eyes of the enemy)

He formulated a military and delegated work to others, such as Tamerlane (who assisted the Khan conqueror of western Russia) to do his workings.

He adapted technologies discovered (such as in China) for use in later campaigns, also borrowing tactics from various peoples

He used a large amount of 'dirty tricks' (terrorism, assasination)

He was a peasant boy who was prisoner of another tribe, upon breaking free he managed to gather an army of a quarter million to conquest under him.

Indeed he was a great military leader, and there is much more to say of him
Such as one of his greatest battles: taking Mesopotamia from the Persian Shah. With his army of a quarter million, he took a city of a million in three days (this was projected to have taken a year; 365 days)

I think his nickname was 'The Blue Wolf' or something of that nature. His gravesite remains hidden, his warriors swore never to reveal it.
And his face graces his homecountry's money still today.

The Blue Wolf, although he dubbed himself

Scourge of God

thanks for yr reply, Evak.
another question--did Ghengis ever lose any battles (as you can see, I am too lazy to get up and research this myself, lol).
If I recall correctly, Alexander never lost a single one, in 10 years of waging nonstop war. In my mind, there is something almost godlike about this guy--I know that he had his guys worship him as a god so he thought the same thing, haha. Also his dead body was encased in solid gold so it wouldn't rot, a burial befitting a god..wonder where he's buried? Now THAT would be one of the major discoveries of all time.

Originally posted by rendova
thanks for yr reply, Evak.
another question--did Ghengis ever lose any battles
No.
This is the Chingiz section on my favourite historical website:
http://www.allempires.com/empires/mongol/mongol1.htm

As for Atatürk:
http://www.turizm.net/turkey/history/ataturk.html

Ghengis lost no battles, and fought larger enemies across larger lands for his entire life, not just a single decade.

thanks guys, and thanks for the link, Spartak. Very interesting stuff. Maybe they should make a movie about Ghengis some time, or at least a mini-series?! Couldn't be much worse than the horrid slop about Alexander that came out recently.

BWAHAHA

They were going to make another Alexander The Great movie of that title, but when alexander flopped Martin Scorsese abandoned the project.

They made a long TV movie about Ghengis that is wretched and terrible.

Indeed hollywood needs to stop making remakes and comic books and turn to this great story.

Would be great stuff in the right hands
Peter Jackson, Ridley Scott, Mel Gibson and others have proven their worth at epic battle scenes and well-rounded character study simultaneously

I can hope one of them takes up the task :)

I don't know about the most important, but I'd like to give Eisenhower a mention. His great strength wasn't so much as a tactician but in maintaining a functioning military relationship in the midst of great egos, particularly the overbearing Patton and the overrated Montgomery.

Originally posted by Brooks
I don't know about the most important, but I'd like to give Eisenhower a mention. His great strength wasn't so much as a tactician but in maintaining a functioning military relationship in the midst of great egos, particularly the overbearing Patton and the overrated Montgomery.

Eisenhower was a fascinating man. In the book I'm now reading about the Presidency of JFK, Kennedy describes Ike as "frightening." I suppose he HAD to be, considering what he was up against...beneath that calm homespun exterior was a first class military and political brain.

Originally posted by Brooks
I don't know about the most important, but I'd like to give Eisenhower a mention. His great strength wasn't so much as a tactician but in maintaining a functioning military relationship in the midst of great egos, particularly the overbearing Patton and the overrated Montgomery. [/B] Now there was a man who was a legend in his own bathtime.

they did make a movie about Gengis, it was called Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. If I recall he trashed a sporting good store in a shopping mall

heheh that movie was about William and Theodore going on a most excellent adventure through time to study for a test.

Ghengis had a cameo :D

But we need to have a GOOD movie that is all about Ghengis' life and works

Nobody mentioned Nathan Bedford Forrest? Forrest was an unschooled General that fought for the South in the Civil War. He also became the first Grand Wizard of the KKK. So this guy wasn't the most savory character on the planet, but he had courage, tremendous physical strength, very sharp memory and an ability to absolutely terrify his enemies. When Lee was asked who was his greatest subordinate (and Lee had a huge number of great men working under him) he said, "It was a man I never met, his name was Forrest." Forrest is the kind of man we need to be running things in Iraq, he had zero pity and knew how to kick some serious ass.


Dammit.

HAHA!
A fellow CW buff! come on over to the Blue and Grey thread and post yr thoughts!
i also admire Forrest, tho it's "politically incorrect" nowadays to do so. The guy knew how to fight, and was Sherman's equal or better in demoralizing the enemy. Sad that he's all but forgotten nowadays.