'One of them made cuts in my penis. I was in agony'

Tuesday August 2, 2005
The Guardian

Benyam Mohammed travelled from London to Afghanistan in July 2001, but after September 11 he fled to Pakistan. He was arrested at Karachi airport on April 10 2002, and describes being flown by a US government plane to a prison in Morocco. These are extracts from his diary.

They cut off my clothes with some kind of doctor's scalpel. I was naked. I tried to put on a brave face. But maybe I was going to be raped. Maybe they'd electrocute me. Maybe castrate me.

They took the scalpel to my right chest. It was only a small cut. Maybe an inch. At first I just screamed ... I was just shocked, I wasn't expecting ... Then they cut my left chest. This time I didn't want to scream because I knew it was coming.

One of them took my penis in his hand and began to make cuts. He did it once, and they stood still for maybe a minute, watching my reaction. I was in agony. They must have done this 20 to 30 times, in maybe two hours. There was blood all over. "I told you I was going to teach you who's the man," [one] eventually said.

They cut all over my private parts. One of them said it would be better just to cut it off, as I would only breed terrorists. I asked for a doctor.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,12780,1540552,00.html
++++++++++++++++++++++

What you need to understand is that redition and Gitmo are not about finding terrorists. Its about creating them.

I hope you assholes are proud of yourselves. This is what you support. Torture is an American value.

I read that article yesterday. It didn't surprise me at all. America, once the moral leader on earth and the pillar of democracy is now nothing more than a big bully with a big stick. The world no longer sees us as a democratic nation, a moral nation or a nation that values human life and human rights. We have sunk into the slim and now reside alongside our enemy. Bush lovers are proud of this, the rest of us can only shake our heads and mourn what was once a great nation.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla


I hope you assholes are proud of yourselves. This is what you support. Torture is an American value.

I used to have a signature line that read "If you have to exaggerate my point to make me wrong, you've already given up". I stopped posting it because most people here are intelligent enough to refrain from slippery-sloping others' arguments. Most people.

Who exactly are the a-holes that condone cutting penises and chests with scalpels? Very weak.

regardless of your stance on how you'd like for things to be done politicians will do it however they like. Your support is an endorsement unless you give a loud clear no.

The War Against Terrorism will continue like this. Any support for it, regardless of intent or wishful thinking, results in this.

In essence, those who oppose acts like this (and therefore T.W.A.T.) are not aiding terrorists. It is those who abuse T.W.A.T., for their own agenda, who are aiding terrorists.

Originally posted by Brooks

Who exactly are the a-holes that condone cutting penises and chests with scalpels? Very weak.

That question attempts to evade the fact that there are millions of hawkish Rightwingers in this country who DO condone the US torturing prisoners.

Wow, the title is certainly a grabber. That aside,
Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
One of them took my penis in his hand and began to make cuts. He did it once, and they stood still for maybe a minute, watching my reaction. I was in agony. They must have done this 20 to 30 times, in maybe two hours. There was blood all over.
If this were truly the case, then I'm assuming Mr. Mohammed immediately sought medical attention after the prolonged ordeal to substantiate his claim that he was indeed tormented and tortured. Where's the proof - I wanna see it?

why are americans so intent on being absolutely pessimistic on america?

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Wow, the title is certainly a grabber. That aside,

If this were truly the case, then I'm assuming Mr. Mohammed immediately sought medical attention after the prolonged ordeal to substantiate his claim that he was indeed tormented and tortured. Where's the proof - I wanna see it?


I agree. Who really would let a prisoner have access to any person or media organization so that he could tell his story? If this was true, he would still be locked away in a deep dark slum of a jail cell, and would never be allowed to see the light of day in order to keep this inhumane torture from reaching the surface and being taken to the public. I know there is brutality going on, and I believe that the Gov has taken a stance on whatever they do is right. I just don't really believe this story is true. There were no pictures of him on the website. It could have been written by any average white man trying to cause a stir.

Originally posted by Decka
why are americans so intent on being absolutely pessimistic on america?

Good question... If someone doesn't like it they should leave. But I can promise we have a better life than over 1/2 the world.

1/2 the world??? Try 90%.

True. But there are some people who love where they are from in various places. I guess it also depends on what social class you are. The poor would be better off in USA. But the upper classes usually are just fine where they are.... Personally, I think it would be much better to live on some tropical island. Keep the cable and net, but less politics and hollywood scandals.

Originally posted by cheerios
Who really would let a prisoner have access to any person or media organization so that he could tell his story? ........I just don't really believe this story is true. There were no pictures of him on the website. It could have been written by any average white man trying to cause a stir.

Aww fuck.

Yet ANOTHER delusional wingnut........ <sigh>.........

....any incident or story that gets reported on that imparts something negative about the sainted USA or its leadership (only when the Republicans are in office, of course) just HAS to be "made up"..............right?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

why are americans so intent on being absolutely pessimistic on america?
I got a better question. Why are so many people so red white and brainwashed that they refuse to believe the US could do anything wrong even when its corroborated by numerous victims coming forward, official government documents, and pictures.

You're damn loons.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,12780,1540558,00.html

A simple internet search would turn up that this guy has a court case yet none of you even bothered to look. You simply said "I don't believe it" and dropped it at that. No need for debate, facts or anything else just "I don't believe it" based on nothing but you uber-patriotness. It just proves how brainwashed you are. "The US could never do anything wrong and anyone who says otherwise is just anti-american."

You guys are so cute... (http://www.lib.niu.edu/ipo/ii9307241a.jpg)

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
A simple internet search would turn up that this guy has a court case yet none of you even bothered to look. Yeah, well so did the chick that claimed she found a finger in her chili at Wendy's. Oh, my, how having court cases are such proof that this man was indeed tortured. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
I got a better question. Why are so many people so red white and brainwashed that they refuse to believe the US could do anything wrong even when its corroborated by numerous victims coming forward, official government documents, and pictures.

first off... since when does one soldier doing something sick and twisted mean our gov't promotes it.

Second, there are bound to be bloody pictures during war time.

Third, your definition of "torture" is different than mine.
Originally posted by 500lbguerilla

You're damn loons.

and you're an idiot...
wow i love the sophisticated arguements in here

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla

A simple internet search would turn up that this guy has a court case yet none of you even bothered to look. You simply said "I don't believe it" and dropped it at that. No need for debate, facts or anything else just "I don't believe it" based on nothing but you uber-patriotness. It just proves how brainwashed you are. "The US could never do anything wrong and anyone who says otherwise is just anti-american."


i dont know what the whole case is about.... but one fact is that its an isolated incident. I don't think it is military procedure to cut people's penis's... last i checked. It's reasons like this that i always accuse you of having an agenda.... you take what the bad apple did and use that as what america is about, and ignore everything else.

Originally posted by Decka
I dont know what the whole case is about.

Truer words were never spoken.

Just insert your fucking head back into the sand ---per cheerios' excellent example--- and pretend it never happened.

Originally posted by Freethinker
Truer words were never spoken.

Just insert your fucking head back into the sand ---per cheerios' excellent example--- and pretend it never happened.

o please... i dont NEED to know the details on this one.

as long as it was an isolated incident, and the people who did it get punished.....

you act as if i condone the behavior, and you are wrong

Originally posted by Decka

as long as it was an isolated incident, and the people who did it get punished.....

Alright. I apologize for lumping you in with people like cheerios, who --even more naive and willfully blind than condoning it-- simply REFUSES to acknowledge that it happened.

And i would be surprised if anyone gets punished for it.

Originally posted by Decka
you act as if i condone the behavior, and you are wrong

Ok.

You don't condone it.

But as the Abu Ghraib incidents revealed, there are millions of rightwingers in America who DO condone the US torturing prisoners.

Keep that flag wrapped as tightly around you head as you can...otherwise you might have an unpatriotic thought...
o please... i dont NEED to know the details on this one. as long as it was an isolated incident, and the people who did it get punished..... you act as if i condone the behavior, and you are wrong Nice of you to admit you spout off about shit you don't have a clue about. You didn't even bother to read the story all the way did you? I know for a fact Prea didn't. Why do you assholes even bother commenting on things when you aren't even willing to take 2 minutes and actually read what we're talking about. Thats why you're a waste of time and that why you're brainwashed loons. You don't even want to learn about whats goes on in the world unless its pro-us.

Yeah right just a few bad apples...that lame excuse never gets old does it.

Funny this same old routine of lies. We didn't know about it, it was a few bad apples, yeah we told them to but not like that...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Exclusive: Secret Memo—Send to Be Tortured

Aug. 8, 2005 issue - An FBI agent warned superiors in a memo three years ago that U.S. officials who discussed plans to ship terror suspects to foreign nations that practice torture could be prosecuted for conspiring to violate U.S. law, according to a copy of the memo obtained by NEWSWEEK. The strongly worded memo, written by an FBI supervisor then assigned to Guantanamo, is the latest in a series of documents that have recently surfaced reflecting unease among some government lawyers and FBI agents over tactics being used in the war on terror. This memo appears to be the first that directly questions the legal premises of the Bush administration policy of "extraordinary rendition"—a secret program under which terror suspects are transferred to foreign countries that have been widely criticized for practicing torture.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8769416/site/newsweek

I read the story, you condescending little prick. I just didn't swallow it hook, line, and sinker, that's all. If the men who allegedly tortured Benyam Mohammed are indicted in the "ironclad" court case that's pending, then we'll talk.

Makes you wonder just what would have to happen before he would stop standing up for his fascist friends. I'll bet this admimistration could wipe out the entire west coast and prae would find a way to justify it.

Originally posted by Echo2
I'll bet this admimistration could wipe out the entire west coast and prae would find a way to justify it.
Well, you have to admit, California and Oregon wouldn't be a bad place to start. :D (Btw, that's a joke - so relax)

I would vote for Florida and Texas. In that order. :D

You would pick the only two states outside of Illinois I have family in. :)

Oops!. I didn't know. Sorry.

I don't have a problem with knocking out California. I lived in the bay area foreleven years. Those wackjobs make me look like a hard right wing republican. They don't know how to drive, have the most f*&ked up freeway system in the country, and actually elected both Gray Davis and Arnold (both political idiotts IMO). I would miss the napa vally but LA can sink into the ocean for all I care.

Originally posted by Echo2
Oops!. I didn't know. Sorry.
Oh, don't worry - I wasn't offended. :)
Originally posted by Echo2
but LA can sink into the ocean for all I care.
LA is god-awful; I'll give you that.

LOL 500 you're a trip....

i did read what was posted.... and i DIDNT spat off about how anything on this topic....

all i said was if anyone did anything wrong i hope they get punished... and to not judge the entire american armed forces on one idiot....

so quit trying to brand me with your bullshit....

I read the story, you condescending little prick.
did you?

You post:
If this were truly the case, then I'm assuming Mr. Mohammed immediately sought medical attention after the prolonged ordeal to substantiate his claim that he was indeed tormented and tortured.

From the story:
They cut all over my private parts. One of them said it would be better just to cut it off, as I would only breed terrorists. I asked for a doctor. Doctor No 1 carried a briefcase. "You're all right, aren't you? But I'm going to say a prayer for you." Doctor No 2 gave me an Alka-Seltzer for the pain. I told him about my penis. "I need to see it. How did this happen?" I told him. He looked like it was just another patient. "Put this cream on it two times a day. Morning and night." He gave me some kind of antibiotic.

all i said was if anyone did anything wrong i hope they get punished... and to not judge the entire american armed forces on one idiot.... Yeah thats great and all but more than one American was invovled in this. They had equipment and orders. Not to mention that there are hundrends of pitures of dozens of people from Abu G, many people stationed at Gitmo and numerous docuemnts calling for torture. Bush himself is protecting the torture from McCains amendment. This is an organized use of torture and you have massive denial.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
This is an organized use of torture ...

True....as regards the torture occuring at Abu Ghraib, at any rate.

There is documentation proving that the official sanction of such torture goes as least as high as the U.S. Secretary of Defence, (Rumsfeld) and possibly higher.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
......and you have massive denial.

Well, yes.

Absolutely. But then, it is a foundational aspect of the rightwing mindset.

If you look up **massive denial** in the dictionary, it redirects you to --"See conservatism".

DATELINE, Washington ----- Donald Rumsfeld gave go-ahead for Abu Ghraib tactics, says general in charge

http://www.yuricareport.com/PrisonerTortureDirectory/RumsfeldOkayedTorture.html

In the piece, Weiner and co-author Emma Dick, a human rights analyst for Weiner's issue strategies company, contend that "calls to close the U.S. prison at Guantánamo Bay have diverted attention from the policies that have made both Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib infamous." They call it "astounding" that "the White House is claiming it would 'restrict the president's authority' to pass bipartisan legislation prohibiting the 'cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment' of detainees, and that Vice President Cheney is meeting with Congress saying the president will veto any such bill." Cheney has even stated that "if we didn't have that facility at Guantánamo to undertake this activity, we'd have to have it someplace else," words which Weiner and Dick say "send a chill to the human rights community".

....

The orders to torture came from the top down. In the pyramid of power, first and foremost was President George W. Bush's Jan. 25, 2002, executive order disavowing the Geneva Conventions for the "new" kind of war we are fighting. Moreover, then-White House Counsel Alberto Gonzalez assisted in writing the 2002 memo, which also asserted that the Geneva Conventions - respected worldwide - were "quaint" and "obsolete." Last May, before all our eyes in televised hearings, Department of Defense Undersecretary for Intelligence Dr. Stephen Cambone, who coordinates Defense intelligence policy, sat on the panel and visibly waived off and interrupted key parts of Major General Antonio Taguba's testimony before the U.S. Senate on the depth of abuses.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/080105Q.shtml

conclusion-
"Torturing prisoners, making people pile up naked, electric shock in private areas, using vicious dogs to bite, holding people in secret in perpetuity and denying them access to their families and the legal process are not the human rights values this nation stands for. As prisoners' families, colleagues and countrymen hear of the abuses, support swells rather than diminishes for Jihad against us. We have reduced our national reputation as a human rights leader."

Oh and for the right wingers on the board please, name one thing that made Saddam a bad man that the US military hasn't also inflicted on the Iraqi people? I'm waiting...

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
did you?
Yes I did. As for you pointing this out -

From the Article:
They cut all over my private parts. One of them said it would be better just to cut it off, as I would only breed terrorists. I asked for a doctor.

Doctor No 1 carried a briefcase. "You're all right, aren't you? But I'm going to say a prayer for you." Doctor No 2 gave me an Alka-Seltzer for the pain. I told him about my penis. "I need to see it. How did this happen?" I told him. He looked like it was just another patient. "Put this cream on it two times a day. Morning and night." He gave me some kind of antibiotic.
Fine, but it still leads me to the question: what type "antibiotic" was he given, and if they didn't tell him, then why didn't he immediately seek assistance from a medical professional once he was released? Surely he has scars, but with the amount of anti-American sentiment out there, who's to say he didn't inflict those wounds himself? Once again - it all boils down to him proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he was tortured under US custody, and if he can do that, I'd be surprised. In any event, I'm sure he was smart enough to visit a doctor OTHER than the SS physicians he was under the care of while detained, and undoubtedly, those people could help substantiate the alleged abuse, right?

Considering the fact that he has garnered ZERO proof that we assaulted him, I find his entire claim to be frivolous and convenient. Personally, I don't think we'd take the chance of exposing ourselves so lightly. If what happened to this man actually happened - we'd have put a bullet in his head, placed his body in a dumpster in NYC, and called it a day. I mean, come on, how hard do you think it would be for our government pull that off?

On the other hand, I suppose you figure it's evil 'Murrica doin' its biddin' against dem mud people again, ay? Well, as I see it, the proof is in the pudding, and so far, Achmed hasn't shown me any.

Lets just see who wins the case...

Considering the fact that he has garnered ZERO proof that we assaulted him, I find his entire claim to be frivolous and convenient. Personally, I don't think we'd take the chance of exposing ourselves so lightly. If what happened to this man actually happened - we'd have put a bullet in his head, placed his body in a dumpster in NYC, and called it a day. I mean, come on, how hard do you think it would be for our government pull that off?

Why bother when they got people like you who will defend 'Merica without a clue as to what actually happened and the ability to ignore all the evidence of precident in pictures of torture, muder and rape commited by US troops.

And he is not saying the US assaulted him (much less you and I, Whats all this WE shit about? Its written U.S.) but a proxy at the behest of the US. Its called outsourcing torture and the US has been doing for a while now. Reagan had Air America now Bush has this.

Let's say I don't like someone. I tie them up and go hand them over to people who I know are sadisitc murderous fucks. He ends up getting murdered and tortured (not in that order). Who's to blame, me, them or both of US...

Well, as I see it, the proof is in the pudding, and so far, Achmed hasn't shown me any. I know how excited you get over seeing mutilated penises but you can't expect him to share with everyone on the internet...

Originally posted by Freethinker

If you look up **massive denial** in the dictionary, it redirects you to --"See conservatism".

how old are you again FT.... 12???

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
I know how excited you get over seeing mutilated penises but you can't expect him to share with everyone on the internet...
I'm not looking for pictures, dipshit. Give me documentation that proves he sought medical assistance OUTSIDE of what he was given while detained. Any logical person would do that, especially if their Johnson was filleted.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Why bother when they got people like you who will defend 'Merica without a clue as to what actually happened

um... NOONE knows what happened... and that is INCLUDING you

Originally posted by Decka
um... NOONE knows what happened... and that is INCLUDING you

However, intellegent people look at the facts, papers, memo's, schedules, letters and other historical records and can come damn close to it. The rest just believe what they are told and go their merry deluded way.

Originally posted by Echo2
However, intellegent people look at the facts, papers, memo's, schedules, letters and other historical records and can come damn close to it. The rest just believe what they are told and go their merry deluded way.

well... i dont know who TOLD me what i beleive... i think i came to that conclusion on my own...

geez, there goes that Liberal egoism again....

who is more deluded... the one's who accept theory as fact or the one's who need more proof????

It's fairly well documented that the CIA has been ferrying terrorist suspects around the world in their Boeing Business Jet and dropping them off at friendly countries that don't care as much about human rights conventions. I agree that some guy making the claim doesn't prove anything, but it's not hard to imagine Egypt or Pakistan doing something like this.

Originally posted by Decka
who is more deluded... the one's who accept theory as fact or the one's who need more proof????

Ask the christians, they don't accept fact or theary. It's all about faith to them.

dont they have the constitutional right to beleive in religion? or did something change that i am unaware of

Everyone has the constitutional right to not be tortured. Yet somehow you defend Anti-American garbage that trashes the constitution on a regular basis.

when did i defend anything? I dont agree with what happened in the story....

All that i have a problem with is the agenda you guys have to label the entire military as penis cutters and torturers because there are some idiots who are in the military....

It is not military procedure to torture... no matter what you say. Even if there was a high ranking officer who ordered, he is out of line, it's not the military who is to blame...

and don't try to bring up the "torture" that has been mentioned of showing prisoners in their underwear or "forcing" them to watch a girl unclothed..... that is hazing, something that is done in band camps across the world, but yet we can't do it to terrorists.....

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
In the piece, Weiner and co-author Emma Dick, a human rights analyst for Weiner's issue strategies company

, we'd have to have it someplace else," words which Weiner and Dick say "send a chill to the human rights community".



is this a joke?

Originally posted by Travh20
is this a joke?
LOL. :)

it is ironic that in a thread called "cut my penis" 2 of the sources are named Weiner and Dick

heh...good catch Trav