You won't find many people willing to accuse John McCain, John Warner or Lindsey Graham of being soft on terrorism. But the three Republican senators are giving the White House fits with their attempt to get legislation approved that would expressly prohibit cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment of detainees in U.S. custody.

There was a dramatic encounter during the floor debate last week when Senator Jeff Sessions, a Republican from Alabama, spoke out against the legislation, saying there was no need for it because, as he put it, the detainees are not prisoners of war, "they are terrorists."

Senator McCain, of Arizona, argued that the debate "is not about who they are. It's about who we are." Americans, said Mr. McCain, "hold ourselves" to a higher standard.

The stakes in this confrontation are high. Senators McCain, Warner and Graham are all influential members of the Armed Services Committee (Senator Warner is the chairman), and they have introduced the legislation in the form of amendments to the nearly half-trillion-dollar Pentagon authorization bill for fiscal 2006.

That such an initiative would come from high-ranking, hawkish Republicans is extraordinary, and the White House is not happy about it. In addition to prohibiting cruel and degrading treatment, the legislation would restrict military interrogation techniques to those authorized in a new Army field manual.

McCain more than anyone else can appreciate what it's like to be locked up in a camp for years with no end in sight.

Originally posted by Echo2
Senator Jeff Sessions, a Republican from Alabama, spoke out against the legislation, saying there was no need for it because, as he put it, the detainees are not prisoners of war, "they are terrorists."

Senator McCain, of Arizona, argued that the debate "is not about who they are. It's about who we are."

Wow.

That one sentence --- "It's not about who they are.....it's about who we are"--- speaks volumes.

I wish the Rightwing Kool-Aid drinkers and war hawks in this country could read that one simple remark, and grasp what it means.

Originally posted by Freethinker
Wow.

That one sentence --- "It's not about who they are.....it's about who we are"--- speaks volumes.

I wish the Rightwing Kool-Aid drinkers and war hawks in this country could read that one simple remark, and grasp what it means.

I got the same feeling when I read it. But don't count on the riechtwingnuts to understand it. It is a concept far beyond their ability to comprehend. It would mean wanting America to be something more and better than the ussual bullying country that does whatever it wants and could care less what others think.

I can hear them already."I understand it I just don't agree with it".

Originally posted by Echo2

I can hear them already."I understand it I just don't agree with it".

Nahh.

I figure they'll go with the tried and true ---"Aww, everbuddy knows that John McCain is a dirty cummyanist!!"

Character assassination has always been a VERY successful tactic for the ConservaFascists.

Character assassination has always been a VERY successful tactic for the ConservaFascists.

Gee Freethinker, Bill Clinton and his ilk taught us well.


As far as Geneva Conventions are concerned, they apply to actual uniformed enemy combatants. Not terrorists who try to bite on the ankle and run/hide. They are living on the tender mercies of the U.S. Which is a hell of a lot better treatment than what the terrorists mete out to their prisoners.

Dammit.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Gee Freethinker, Bill Clinton and his ilk taught us well.

Alright.

Name one person that Clinton or his associates EVER used the tactic of character assassination on to the degree that Bush and his people used on John McCain.

McCain SERVED in Vietnam. He was captured and TORTURED in the defense of this country, while Smirky the goddamned Chimp was snorting coke in Texas, because his highly connected father helped him AVOID serving in Vietnam. Yet we were forced to endure the Bush team assassinating McCain's character with EVERY dirty fucking trick in the book.

Bush is the LOWEST fucking form of life on the planet......and i'd like to see him and McCain thrown into a concrete pit naked with butcher knives and let the "best" man come out.

There are no fucking WORDS to express how deeply I despise GW the fucking elitist frat boy.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
As far as Geneva Conventions are concerned, they apply to actual uniformed enemy combatants. Not terrorists who try to bite on the ankle and run/hide.

Yawn.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
They are living on the tender mercies of the U.S.

Yawn.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Which is a hell of a lot better treatment than what the terrorists mete out to their prisoners.

Yawn.

Originally posted by Freethinker
Bush is the LOWEST fucking form of life on the planet......


In my opinion.... you are lower than GW, just because you don't hear GW ranting and spewing shit all over poor little Freethinker.
Originally posted by Freethinker

There are no fucking WORDS to express how deeply I despise GW the fucking elitist frat boy.

Well thank you, i will not take any of your opinions seriously because of your obsessive vendetta against GW... the truth comes out finally.

Originally posted by Decka
In my opinion.... you are lower than GW


In my opinion, you --as a continual apologist for Bush-- are one half notch above what he is; i.e., the lowest form of life on the planet.

Congradulations.

Originally posted by Freethinker
Alright.

Name one person that Clinton or his associates EVER used the tactic of character assassination on to the degree that Bush and his people used on John McCain.

Travel Office, Paula Jones, Monica Lewinsky, Linda Tripp, Ken Starr and Ralph Nader. This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Which is a hell of a lot better treatment than what the terrorists mete out to their prisoners.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free's reply: Yawn.


"Free"thinker - Does the yawn mean you disagree with this?

Originally posted by Freethinker
McCain SERVED in Vietnam. He was captured and TORTURED in the defense of this country, while Smirky the goddamned Chimp was snorting coke in Texas, because his highly connected father helped him AVOID serving in Vietnam. Yet we were forced to endure the Bush team assassinating McCain's character with EVERY dirty fucking trick in the book.

Bush is the LOWEST fucking form of life on the planet......and i'd like to see him and McCain thrown into a concrete pit naked with butcher knives and let the "best" man come out.

There are no fucking WORDS to express how deeply I despise GW the fucking elitist frat boy.
Holy shit, I knew you were rabid, but this paints an entirely new picture. I now see you as the living equivalent of John Malkovich's character in the movie, "In The Line Of Fire".

As far as Geneva Conventions are concerned, they apply to actual uniformed enemy combatants. Not terrorists who try to bite on the ankle and run/hide. They are living on the tender mercies of the U.S. Which is a hell of a lot better treatment than what the terrorists mete out to their prisoners. Damn straight...I say to fight terrorists the US has to become terrorists themselves. Adopting barbaric practices of torture and murdering people on a whim is the America I want to see. It's OK for the US to be evil terrorists and throw away innocent lives cause the government says so. Maybe if the terrorists had a government of their own they could murder lots of innocent people without getting in trouble as well...

Youre so fucking ridiculous darth.

You can't fight terrorism by adopting terrorist tactics. That would in turn make said practicionor a terrorist and therefore increase the number of terrorists in the world.

There's a fine line. You can't become a terrorist, but you can't go off and offer them milk and cookies as an interrogation tactic.

indeed... because they don't think like us... they have no honor, they will take ANYTHING they can get.... if you show them mercy, as soon as you turn around they will shoot you in the back.

they have no honor The US has no honor either. Good job.

Yes yes, we vile american scum. Such terrorist pigdogs. We fluff the pillows and read bedtime stories to vicious suicidal mass killers. Oh the horror. WE ARE TERRORISTS, what is this country coming to!
And now our evil tactics has led to our friend England to be hit. Perhaps if we give them more cookies and maybe a little milk they may want to divulge their guerilla operations and plans for the future.
My word, what has gotten into the people of the US, those bastards, how could they...imprisoning nonuniformed warriors of a organization that preaches death to us when they dont have to and not interrogating them with the tactics necessary to save lives. NOOOO000ooooo! And we try to stop them???
Yep, we definitely have become terrorists by trying to protect our homeland.

"Bush is the LOWEST fucking form of life on the planet......and i'd like to see him and McCain thrown into a concrete pit naked with butcher knives and let the "best" man come out.

There are no fucking WORDS to express how deeply I despise GW the fucking elitist frat boy." -Freethinker

Try cherry flavored Kool Aid Jammers, they taste great and go with you anywhere(flagburnings, marxist worship meetings, nambla association gatherings, i.e.)!!
Now with extra hypocrisy(not that you are lacking in that)!

Originally posted by Evakian
"Bush is the LOWEST fucking form of life on the planet......and i'd like to see him and McCain thrown into a concrete pit naked with butcher knives and let the "best" man come out.

There are no fucking WORDS to express how deeply I despise GW the fucking elitist frat boy." -Freethinker

Try cherry flavored Kool Aid Jammers, they taste great and go with you anywhere(flagburnings, marxist worship meetings, nambla association gatherings, i.e.)!!
Now with extra hypocrisy(not that you are lacking in that)!

WOW, is that what they teach you at the bush lovers indoctrination web sites? That if you don't support the lieing son of a bitch you are a hypocritic, marxist, pedophile that burns flags? Evak, are you really that closed minded and blind?

I am no flag burner, wouldn't bother to waste the match. I am no pedophile. I very much disalike even being around children, I am not a marxist by any means, I do admit that I have been hypocritical at times over the last 51 years. And I hate bush even moret han FT. Your theaory is shot to hell.

I guess Evak feels that unless we get doun into the slim with the terrorists we can't beat them. I disagree. If don't believe we have to give up our morals and values and become as low as the f%cking Islamsists. Everytime we emulate them they have won another battle. They want us to think like them, to hate like them, to have no regard for human life like them. That is what their damn religion is all about. They hate us because of our western ways and everytime we act like them they have won another battle.

"I guess Evak-" -Echo2

DO NOT GUESS. you must know, and since you did not, you were wrong.

"Your theaory is shot to hell" -Echo2

Theory, what theory?

Hmmmm, first off- this was for humorous purposes. You seem to have taken it very seriously...

That if you don't support the lieing son of a bitch you are a hypocritic, marxist, pedophile that burns flags? Evak, are you really that closed minded and blind?- Echo2

Hmmm, do i support Bush?
Calling me closed minded and blind is pure hypocrisy.

If i can laugh at Jon Stewart and Bill Maher sometimes without raising hell over their viewpoints, i am sure you can see humor in mine without having to swear and make up lies.

Enjoy the rest of the day ;)

Originally posted by Evakian
Yes yes, we vile american scum. Such terrorist pigdogs.
You sound like Tuco from The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. :)

Twas a joke my good lad, i was merely toying around with their viewpoints and speeches.

Originally posted by Evakian
Twas a joke my good lad, i was merely toying around with their viewpoints and speeches.

Apparantly your humor was mised by more than just me.

indeed, but reading the passage as a whole would have stopped these problems

i somewhat agree with you echo...

but if we "stoop" to a lower level just to get rid of them... I would say that is worth "lowering" ourselves if terrorism is sealed up a bit.

its not like the united states orders car bombers to kill civilians and suicide bombers to blow up stuff....

so we will NEVER stoop to THEIR level.

its not like the united states orders car bombers to kill civilians and suicide bombers to blow up stuff.... No they just use predator drones to blow up cars with one target and 3 innocents, or drop bombs all over the plce killing at least as many if not more civlians than fighters, or kidnap random people and torture them to death.

But of course that nothing like killing inocent people with car bombs...

Gimmie a break Decka. You seriously think destroying a whole city with bombs is somehow more noble than driving a car bomb into a bunch of police recruits and civilians...Theres no difference besides delivery and scope and if you look at scope the US is 1000 x's worse.

The US has stooped below their level. There is no moral high ground for you to stand on. You could at least be honest about such evil things...