Michael John McCrae


One More Time: WMD’s, Are Everywhere
July 12, 2004

HEADLINE: “USA Today.com”, 7/4/2004, “Poland: Troops beat terrorist to chemical munitions in Iraq”: One quote from the article: “We were mortified by the information that terrorists were looking for those warheads and offered $5,000 apiece. An Attack with such weapons would be hard to imagine. All of our activity was accelerated at appropriating these warheads.”

How soon we forget that just this past May, a convoy was hampered from movement due to the explosion of a mortar round containing sarin.

HEADLINE: “Reuters.com”, 7/4/2004, “Polish Army says Iraq shells had deadly cyclosarin”: One quote from that article: “Artillery shells found by Polish troops in Iraq definitely contained the deadly nerve agent cyclosarin, the Polish army said on Friday.”

QUESTION, for all you liberals and anti-war experts: Why are terrorists running around in IRAQ with CASH money trying to buy up WMD’s that don’t exist? Time’s UP! You do not win the toaster! Too bad!

HEADLINE: “Honolulu Advertiser”, 2/3/2004, “Musharraf, Nuclear Leak Linked”: One quote from that article (Yes, I have kept these a long time, just waiting for the right chance to say “I told you so.”) “Pakistan’s top nuclear scientist has told investigators that he helped North Korea design and equip facilities for making weapons grade uranium.”

HEADLINE: “Honolulu Advertiser”, 2/4/2004, “Agency fears nuclear black market”: Quote: “Pakistani weapons scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan represented the “tip of the iceberg” in an illicit nuclear supply network with connections to…North Korea, Libya and Iran.”

HEADLINE: “Honolulu Advertiser”, 2/5/2004, “Pakistani scientist publicly admits sharing nuclear technology”: Quote: “In a televised address yesterday, nuclear scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan admitted providing nuclear weapons expertise and equipment to Iran, Libya and North Korea…” Now, of course, he did apologize for that which allows for this last headline on the subject: “Honolulu Advertiser”, 2/6/2004, “Pakistan pardons nuclear scientist”; see, an apology sometimes gets you a pardon. (That’s a hint to Willie Jeff, by the way.)

HEADLINE: “Philadelphia Inquirer”, (whoops, left the date off when I cut it out, but it was late February, 2004) “Libya had begun processing plutonium”: Quote: “Supplied by the worldwide black market, Libya processed a small amount of plutonium in a nuclear weapons program that remained undetected for 20 years, until [the] government went public with its efforts [the IAEA] said.”

Far be it from me to suggest that when the President stood before the American people during his State of the Union and claimed Iran, Iraq and North Korea parts of an “axis of evil”, he was absolutely right to do so. He could very well have added, Syria, Libya and Afghanistan at the time, don’t you think?

Anyway, back to the WMD’s. HEADLINE: “Philadelphia Inquirer”, 2/21/2004, “High court to hear “dirty bomb’ case”

QUESTION, for all you liberals and anti-war experts: Isn’t a “dirty bomb” considered a WMD? Bringing up QUESTION 2: Are you happy or sad that America was able to extract tons of “dirty bomb” capable material from IRAQ, to safely secure it in America? HINT: Terrorists are offering cash money for WMD’s in IRAQ!

HEADLINES: “Honolulu Advertiser”, 2/4/2004, 1) “Senate locked down after ricin confirmed” 2) “Link in ricin mailings investigated” 3) “Deadly ricin poison easy to make” (sub- headlined) “Proteins found in Castor beans”

I loved this group of articles because 1) the Senate had to shut down which meant there were at least a few days I didn’t have to worry about loosing my tax cuts, 2) I was informed as to the exact plant genus that I could use to make my own personal WMD with and 3) there had been a previous ricin attack that had been kept secret until the Senate attack and the investigation of the links between these attacks. With the previous attacks using Anthrax, I would say, even though these assaults are, so far, inept; they are nonetheless attacks using weapons considered WMD’s.

Then, of course, there is Syria.

I believe the liberals and the anti-war experts in America should be trying to convince the TERRORISTS that there are no WMD’s in IRAQ. After all, we have all these poor souls running around IRAQ offering cash to purchase things that don’t exist. You would think that liberals, who feel everybody’s pain, would feel the pain of these terrorists and explain to them that they should take their hard earned money to the place WMD’s can actually be found. Or perhaps the liberals and the anti-war experts could help them invest their hard earned terrorist bucks in Castor Bean futures.

I know, I know; that’s why I did all that reading for you. You are welcome.

Chew on this sisko...

From Reuters, 7-02-02

Friday July 2, 05:51 PM


Iraq shells had deadly cyclosarin

By Wojciech Moskwa

WARSAW (Reuters) - Artillery shells found by Polish troops in Iraq definitely contained the deadly nerve agent cyclosarin, the Polish army says.

The threat of weapons of mass destruction possessed by Saddam Hussein's now toppled regime was the main justification used by Washington to go to war against Iraq last year, but U.S.-led forces have only found small amounts of banned weapons.

Poland said on Friday its soldiers found 17 Grad rockets and two mortar shells in late June and said U.S. experts had carried out tests on the weapons.

"Tests conducted showed that there was cyclosarin in the rocket heads," General Marek Dukaczewski, the head of army intelligence, told a news conference.

But the U.S. military said only two of the rockets had tested positive for sarin gas, and another 16 of the rockets found by the Poles had contained no chemical agents. The reason for the discrepancy in numbers was unclear.

Polish Defence Minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski said the discovery of the rockets showed Saddam had failed to account for banned munitions held by Iraq.

"Our predictions and reports that Saddam Hussein did not come clean with a large sum of weapons, artillery shells and of weapons of mass destruction were proven true," he said.

"Some of those warheads were old but it could not be ruled out some could still be used," Szmajdzinski said.

Poland said in a statement from Iraq that "beyond doubt the shells were from the 1980-1988 period, of the type used against Kurds and during the Iraq-Iran war."

In Baghdad, the U.S. military issued a statement saying that two 122 mm rockets found by Polish forces had tested positive for sarin gas and confirmed that they were left over from the Iran-Iraq war, but said they posed little danger.

The statement said an Iraqi civilian had led the soldiers to the rockets in the town of Hilla, 100 km (62 miles) south of Baghdad on June 16.

"Due to the deteriorated state of the rounds and small quantity of remaining agent, these rounds were determined to have limited to no impact if used by insurgents against Coalition Forces," the statement said.

The Iraqi showed the Polish troops 16 more 122 mm rockets from June 23 to 26, which were all empty and tested negative for any type of chemicals, the U.S. statement said.

"BLACK MARKET"

Poland said it "purchased" the shells through individuals who contacted army officials in its military zone in south-central Iraq.

"We bought all the shells available ... Terrorists are seeking these missiles on the black market, offering a price of around $5,000 per warhead," Dukaczewski said, adding that Poland had no evidence that any chemical weapons fell into such hands.

Iraq said it produced cyclosarin munitions in the 1980s to fight Iran but was committed to destroying stocks and ceasing production by U.N. resolutions following the 1991 Gulf War.

After inconclusive searches by international inspectors, U.S. President George W. Bush accused then Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein of failing to give up chemical and biological weapons and invaded Iraq last year to depose him.

"The intelligence we received suggested that these missiles had probably been hidden from United Nations inspectors," Dukaczewski said.


(emphasis mine)

Originally posted by gmsisko1
One More Time: WMD�s, Are Everywhere


One more time for YOU, pal......

"Due to the deteriorated state of the rounds and small quantity of remaining agent, these rounds were determined to have limited to no impact if used by insurgents against Coalition Forces," the statement said.

So, gmsisko........if they were of little to NO use if used against forces right there IN Iraq, how could they have EVER been of ANY threat ---as Bush and his co-conspirators repeatedly tried to make us believe-- to the US homeland?!?!?!

Answer; they weren't.

The supposed existence of WMDs in Iraq is proven --for the umpteenth time-- to be bullshit.

Glad you could help with the exposure of that fact.

Originally posted by Freethinker
One more time for YOU, pal......

"Due to the deteriorated state of the rounds and small quantity of remaining agent, these rounds were determined to have limited to no impact if used by insurgents against Coalition Forces," the statement said.

So, gmsisko........if they were of little to NO use if used against forces right there IN Iraq, how could they have EVER been of ANY threat ---as Bush and his co-conspirators repeatedly tried to make us believe-- to the US homeland?!?!?!

Answer; they weren't.

The supposed existence of WMDs in Iraq is proven --for the umpteenth time-- to be bullshit.

Glad you could help with the exposure of that fact.


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:hitout:

Freethinker,

Bush never said that Iraq was a threat to the U.S. What he said, in a State of the Union speech, that if we wait till a country PROVES to be a threat, it may be too late.

Again, with you, we are travelling down the slippery slope. FIRST Saddam didn't have nuclear weapons, NOW the weapons he had weren't a threat to the U.S. The U.N. resolution(s) called on Saddam to get rid of ALL WMDs. Then you go and quote Bush at something he didn't say in the first place.

Of course, I guess we'll forget a U.N. report that found that rocket parts from Iraq were radioactive (very, very odd for rocket parts), certain facilities in Iraq were dismantled and dispersed during the run up to the Iraq war. Plus there was the Kay report that stated that files in the Iraq Intelligence headquarters were destroyed, and lists key weapons programs were discovered that Iraq wasn't supposed to have.

Then there was the fact that intelligence agencies in Europe and Britain agreed with Bush's assessment that Saddam had WMDs. I've gotta find that link somewhere.......

But those things just don't FIT your views on Bush and the War on Terror and are summarlily dismissed.

Dammit.


Foreign Intelligence Agencies Agree With Bush (http://www.worldthreats.com/middle_east/Iraq%20and%20Evidence%20of%20WMD.htm)

Text of Kay Report (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20031002-1830-kay-text.html)

WMDs May Have Been Smuggled OUT of Iraq (http://editorials.arrivenet.com/gov/article.php/279.html)

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Freethinker,

Bush never said that Iraq was a threat to the U.S.

Puuuuuuhleeeze.

Read the following direct verbatim quote from GWBush and tell me again that he did not claim that Iraq was a threat to the US ;

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020928.html

" The danger to our country is grave and it is growing. The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons, is rebuilding the facilities to make more and, according to the British government, could launch a biological or chemical attack in as little as 45 minutes after the order is given. The regime has long-standing and continuing ties to terrorist groups, and there are al Qaeda terrorists inside Iraq. This regime is seeking a nuclear bomb, and with fissile material could build one within a year."


Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Then there was the fact that intelligence agencies in Europe and Britain agreed with Bush's assessment that Saddam had WMDs.

So???

The intelligence agencies in Europe and Britain were pressured by Bush to fall into line and help him sell his phony "war".

So.....since the intelligence agencies in Europe and Britain were ALSO spreading false information concerning the existence of WMDs in Iraq, THAT makes it ok for Bush to have lied to the American People --repeatedly-- about Iraq possessing WMDs...........!?!?!?!

Not even close.

Are you happy or sad that America was able to extract tons of “dirty bomb” capable material from IRAQ, to safely secure it in America? Lets see....dirty bomb....hmmm....you mean a bomb meant to spread millions of tiny radioactive particles over a large area?

You mean exectly what the US id to Iraq by covering the country in Depleted Uranium particles?

Better watch out, your hypocracy is showing...

Freethinker,

Reading the same speech from which you quoted, Bush didn't say that Saddam was a threat today. He said that the threat from Iraq is growing and he could terrorize the Middle East if nothing is done. Here's a quote for you:


The dangers we face will only worsen from month to month and year to year. To ignore these threats is to encourage them -- and when they have fully materialized, it may be too late to protect ourselves and our allies. By then, the Iraqi dictator will have had the means to terrorize and dominate the region, and each passing day could be the one on which the Iraqi regime gives anthrax or VX nerve gas or someday a nuclear weapon to a terrorist group.

Clearly what Bush is saying is to not let Saddam Hussein acquire WMDs or a nuclear bomb before deciding it's time to stop him. Bush didn't lie, the Kay report and a U.N. report do indicate that Iraq was doing top secret work on both WMDs as well as cruise missles and rockets which he wasn't supposed to have.

And the bit about Bush "pressuring" foreign intelligence services to toe the line with his views on Iraq is complete nonsense. Did Snape feed you a babbling beverage or what? Where do you get this stuff at? It was in France's Germany's and Russia's interest to NOT have Hussein ousted from power seeing as how he owed them lots of money and they were getting sweet oil deals from Saddam. Why on earth would those Nations do something that would be disadvantageous to their own interests? And what do you really think Bush could've done about it if those countries had intelligence that Saddam was NOT pursuing WMD programs? I mean, come on! Get out of the Bush is behind every conspriracy mindset! Dammit.


U.N. document on Saddam's activities (http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/new/documents/quarterly_reports/s-2004-435.pdf)

The Kay Report: What WAS Found in Iraq (http://www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2003/david_kay_10022003.html)

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Freethinker, Reading the same speech from which you quoted, Bush didn't say that Saddam was a threat today.

Sorry, but you're WRONG.

He said , and I quote -- "The danger to our country is grave and it is growing. The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons..."

Notice the sixth word; .... ****is****.

......"the danger is grave".......

That distinctly and unambiguously refers to the PRESENT time.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
And the bit about Bush "pressuring" foreign intelligence services to toe the line with his views on Iraq is complete nonsense.

We disagree.

"What did the spies really and truly know about Saddam’s unconventional weapons, and when did they know it? Did the secret services on both sides of the pond hype, “sex up” or spin intelligence about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction to please their hawkish masters and justify a war? Did Teams Blair and Bush cook the books?"_______http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/06/06/opinion/meyer/main557310.shtml[/B][/QUOTE]

We now know in retrospect that Bush and Blair (and the spy agencies they controlled) DID indeed cook the books........and in so doing sent a couple of thousand US soldiers to their GRAVES for NOTHING, not to mention throwing another half trillion dollars down the goddamned drain [read; the Pentagon] .........but not to worry; Halliburton and Bechtel will be there to pick up the hundreds of billions of US taxdollars and put them in their pockets.

is it me or does FT have some inner quarrel to push everything to the extreme just so its exciting enough to keep him occupied.....

LOL

Originally posted by Decka
is it me or does FT have some inner quarrel to push everything to the extreme ....

Sorry, but I do not see using Bush's own words against him as "pushing everything to the extreme".

Now....LYING in order to drag a nation into war.............THAT is what i'd call 'extreme'.

So now we are semantics experts? Just because of one word that makes an argument wrong? Why are we even discussing this. We know that he was a danger to his own people, to Israel, to the US, Britian, and pretty much everyone else.

Originally posted by Freethinker
Sorry, but you're WRONG.

He said , and I quote -- "The danger to our country is grave and it is growing. The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons..."

Notice the sixth word; .... ****is****.

......"the danger is grave".......

That distinctly and unambiguously refers to the PRESENT time.


You guys on the left know "what the definition of is is", but not so hot on "grave".

grave2 (grâv)
adj., grav·er, grav·est.
Requiring serious thought; momentous: a grave decision in a time of crisis. http://www.answers.com/grave%20



In other words Free, the danger requires serious thought in the present time. D'arth is right. Dammit.

Politicians pick their words very carefully, their speaches are written and re-written to say exactly what they want and to infer exactly what they want. He lied to us. You can smooze it, twist it and argue it all you want. It wont change the fact that he lied to the American public and the world.

Interesting how the only people on the entire planet who are still trying to say that bush didn't lie are the very diehard right wing wackjobs. Even normal, reasonable rebublicans know he lied.

you butt wipes can play all around it all you want. YOU KNOW WHAT THAT JERK SAID, AND WHAT HE MEANT !!!! always tyrying the play on words shit !@!@!!! what the hell !! gmsisko, you are an ASSHOLE !! you just keep on buying that bullshit.....puppet !!

Originally posted by Decka
is it me or does FT have some inner quarrel to push everything to the extreme just so its exciting enough to keep him occupied.....

LOL you can repackage a lie anyway you want.......it's still a damn lie !!! you guysa clearly twisted a decorated soldier into a draftdodging, war ducking "never been wounded enough to leave the war "asshole....but you have the nerve to correct us on what that MORON of a president said ??? you cant decipher anything for anyone because its obvious that you are nothing but a follower, and also obviously , one that cant hear a lie when its told to you !

Maybe 20 years ago when there was less balance in the media the "Bush lied" cliche might have taken better hold, but for all the spouting of that, none of you has shown where.

And you're all right, they do choose their words carefully, but if you're fooled by it, don't call other people the ass wipes.

Freethinker,

You DID read the links I posted, did you not? You DID read about cruise missles, rockets and items gone missing? Files destroyed and entire buildings/complexes torn down and gotten rid of? Dual use materials acquired, hell the list can go on and on and on.

The thing of it is, is this. Had it been Bush engaging in top secret stuff, mysterious artifacts found, FILES AND COMPUTER HARD DRIVES DESTROYED and entire buildings leveled with the contents of those building hidden and dispersed, you Freethinker, would be howling to the high heavans in post after post about what Bush was really up to, and our vaunted "conservative" press would've not only actually invetigated a story, but would've moved mountains. You can see the way these guys were moving and shaking when Dan Rather revealed forged documents that showed Bush didn't complete his National Guard duty and the Downing Street Memos that went nowhere (ha ha!). But just the thought of BUSH destroying documents alone.....

But, we're talking about Saddam and Iraq here, not Bush. The idea is to Get Bush, and if there is something that just doesn't fit, why it can be ignored. So, I guess I can dig up intelligence reports and U.N. document all day long and you'll just ignore them. The template is that Bush lied about Iraq, and nothing is to stand in the way of that in the minds of the Lefties.

Also, I pointed out that FRANCH, GERMAN and RUSSIAN Intelligence agreed with Bush's assessment that Saddam had WMDS, yet you pointed out this spiel about how BRITISH intelligence agrees with Bush and Bush and Blair somehow bullied the CIA and whatever the British have for an Intelligence service into agreeing that Saddam was oh so dangerous. Freethinker, I was referring to FRENCH, GERMAN and RUSSIAN intelligence services agreeing with Bush's assessment that Saddam had WMDS. I deliberately chose those because their interests were in keeping Saddam in power. Also, you can carp all you want about the Bush Administration "bullying" foreign intelligence services into agreeing, but I find it doubtful that any of those countries would stand for being bullied by the U.S.

Dammit.

Originally posted by Brooks
Maybe 20 years ago when there was less balance in the media the "Bush lied" cliche might have taken better hold, but for all the spouting of that, none of you has shown where.

And you're all right, they do choose their words carefully, but if you're fooled by it, don't call other people the ass wipes. THATS the problem mr brooks, we are not the ones fooled by it. a majority doesnt make it right, it can simply mean more fell for it than those who didnt. the scary thing to me is, a lot of you guys are smart....:confused:

geez korg.... what is with the arrogance????

ease off the "im right and you're wrong" soapbox... it's the wrong way to go about conducting yourself.

We are talking about things that really CANNOT be proven fully... so why are you so sure about things???

you say a majority doesn't make it right.... well sorry buddy, but that's what a democracy is... if you don't like it, go find another country.

Sadly enough, that's all the dems can say these days.... that the "majority doesn't make it right"... and THAT is due to the fact that they are getting slaughtered in the public eye and in politics in general.....

and hey, i wish everyone could put the differences aside and be united, but the side that seems to be spewing out insults and running with half-truths seems to be more often than not the dems....

i havn't heard a democrat say a postive thing in years.