For centuries, mankind hs created theories of what our purpose in life is. Clergymen, philosophers, politicians, teachers, even the average joe has a theory. So what is yours? What do you believe to be the reasoning behind our existance, the reasoning for our creation and living.

Post if you wish, and just type what you feel, don't worry about sounding wrong or stupid. In this case there are no wrong answers, i just wish to hear other viewpoints.

Thinking about a topic like this too much can land a person in the funny farm.
Just kidding....
Our purpose is to exist and to continue our lines the best way we can, as long as we don't hurt others doing so.

This is an interesting question and no one really knows the answer. I think it would be easier to ask what is not our purpose in life.

I would say one of the biggest things is to keep our species going, after that hmmmmmmmmmmm......

But why is it necessary to keep the species going? Forcing others into this wretched world. If everyone died in a holocaust (nuclear, natural, or otherwise), would that really be a problem? Pain, anguish, joy, love, anger......having not experienced these things would be a better...for a lack of a better word, experience
My parents brought me into this world for selfish reasons, they wanted a child. By the time i got to have my say if i wanted to be here or not, it was far too late. I will not have children because bringing them here is not their choice

Originally posted by Evakian
But why is it necessary to keep the species going? Forcing others into this wretched world. If everyone died in a holocaust (nuclear, natural, or otherwise), would that really be a problem? Pain, anguish, joy, love, anger......having not experienced these things would be a better...for a lack of a better word, experience
My parents brought me into this world for selfish reasons, they wanted a child. By the time i got to have my say if i wanted to be here or not, it was far too late. I will not have children because bringing them here is not their choice

It is necessary to keep the species going for survival. Darwin said this some time ago.
I do not believe it is a wretched world. There is a lot of beauty and good here. Earth is certainly better than, say, Mars!
Not having kids is your own choice. None of us asked to be born. But every one of us is here for a purpose--maybe some more than others? I am GLAD that Mr and Mrs Lincoln and Mr and Mrs Salk decided to have kids.

Originally posted by Evakian
But why is it necessary to keep the species going? Forcing others into this wretched world.


Its not a wretched world to some , Its possibly heaven like to some people.

The purpose of life for me right now is to save enough money to get a nice place, buy a motorbike and begin racing in the amatuer league of some sort. Tomorrow it might be to just get through the day with a smile.

It changes all the time, and for me its not "Whats the purpose of life" but "Whats the Purpose of living" and i guess a word to encompass it all would be "To Grow"

The beauty is many will disagree and thus why you cant just group everyone together and say this is the meaning of life.... well unless you subscribe to the pointless bullshit propaganda of the Christian religion. Then your purpose in life is to be Jesus's rentboy.

Originally posted by Evakian
I will not have children because bringing them here is not their choice
--------------------------------------------
You do not know this for a fact.

Lets suppose for a moment, that there are souls.
Now suppose that souls exist in a state of awareness that has no emotions, or sense of touch, smell, etc.
(IF), this were true, a tour in a body would be a vacation of emotions. Life would be a virtual playground of experiences.

Humans, being in charge of their thinking mind, have the option of living a life of misery or happiness.
Attitude/frame of mind of an individual determines their happiness, or lack of.
I choose to look at life as a playground.
Taking the good and bad in stride, as learning experiences.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
--------------------------------------------
You do not know this for a fact.

Lets suppose for a moment, that there are souls.
Now suppose that souls exist in a state of awareness that has no emotions, or sense of touch, smell, etc.
(IF), this were true, a tour in a body would be a vacation of emotions. Life would be a virtual playground of experiences.

Humans, being in charge of their thinking mind, have the option of living a life of misery or happiness.
Attitude/frame of mind of an individual determines their happiness, or lack of.
I choose to look at life as a playground.
Taking the good and bad in stride, as learning experiences.

Very well said, Dan.
"Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
Abraham Lincoln , and lord knows he had a sad life but he lept going and DID something with it!

You will notice that the original post said share your theories, yet most of you just decided to be critical of my statement i merely placed on the thread to keep it going with something other than "to survive". If there is no greater pupose found in your life, there is no reason to continue and survive

we are not animals

we do not exist only to procreate and help maintain the ecosystems so that humans may live here, which is why animals are here like it or not.
I mean a purpose aside from something physical "getting a motorbike" "getting a good job" are not things you can take with you to the next life (or lives). and no i am not referring to heaven or hell.
A very succinct and to the point statement by Lokideviluk:
It changes all the time, and for me its not "Whats the purpose of life" but "Whats the Purpose of living" and i guess a word to encompass it all would be "To Grow"
To grow, or learn, to live and to feel, now that makes more sense despite being general.
Since we like to get off topic lets change it:

COCA- COLA OR PEPSI?

Originally posted by Evakian
You will notice that the original post said share your theories, yet most of you just decided to be critical of my statement i merely placed on the thread to keep it going with something other than "to survive". If there is no greater pupose found in your life, there is no reason to continue and survive

we are not animals

we do not exist only to procreate and help maintain the ecosystems so that humans may live here, which is why animals are here like it or not.
I mean a purpose aside from something physical "getting a motorbike" "getting a good job" are not things you can take with you to the next life (or lives). and no i am not referring to heaven or hell.
A very succinct and to the point statement by Lokideviluk:
It changes all the time, and for me its not "Whats the purpose of life" but "Whats the Purpose of living" and i guess a word to encompass it all would be "To Grow"
To grow, or learn, to live and to feel, now that makes more sense despite being general.
Since we like to get off topic lets change it:

COCA- COLA OR PEPSI?
I don't know about the others here, but survival IS the main purpose for being here. Everything else is secondary.
And yes, we as humans are animals. We have bigger brains and more emotions than other life forms, but we are animals just the same.
It is true, dwelling on this subject long enough will indeed put you in a padded cell. I'm for living eash day and trying to learn each day. But if i've learned nothing, at least I still exist.
Pepsi.

The problem is "purpose", in the deep sense I assume you mean on a religion and philosphy forum, requires goals and conscious intent. The universe at large has neither goals nor consciousness and so has no purpose.

Living organisms do have goals but perhaps not purpose, except for we humans who are the only entities we know of that can consciously intend to reach a specified goal. So whatever goals you have right now, that is your purpose in life.

Perhaps you might ask "is life worth living?" or "what is behind it all?" if you are uninspired by peoples' answers so far.

By the way, why not be selfish and have kids? If it pisses them off they can just wait until they're older and selfishly indulge in some kids of their own. And so the cycle continues - everyone gets cursed with life but everyone gets a payback of having children,

Blob, you're the man

I think for people who are not religious (to one of the *major* religions, anyway), purpose and goal are synonimous. It'd be just like Loki said, my purpose is some goal I set for myself--I live to achieve it.

This topic comes up a lot. I remember thinking about it often. And every time the key point to answering the question is found to lie in whether one's purpose is independent of one's will/desire. You can see how this can easily lead to religious or not religious.

If you take the goal = purpose approach, then, whether one wants children has only to do with whether it is to their own interest to have children. At least, I think this way. I definitely do not think regardless of my own interest, I must have children.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Evakian
[B]For centuries, mankind hs created theories of what our purpose in life is. Clergymen, philosophers, politicians, teachers, even the average joe has a theory. So what is yours? What do you believe to be the reasoning behind our existance, the reasoning for our creation and living.
--------------------------------------------------

I did not believe that I was off-topic by telling you that I believe the only purpose in life is to give souls a place to experience emotions.

I do not believe that "life" has an all encompassing purpose or reason. I believe we give ourselves purpose by our actions and deads. We alone give our lifes purpose. What we do with our lifes adds to the whole of humanity. Good or bad.

Originally posted by Evakian
we are not animals

we are animals just the ones at the top of the food chain...

We are here because we have chosen to be here. Our purpose is self-growth. We write our own script.

Our purpose is whatever we choose it to be.

The question posed is far too complicated for anyone to truly answer. I might think the purpose of life is to expose more artistic beauty to those around me....but those are the thoughts of an artist. Everyone has their own purpose, their own reasons for living. Sometimes it just takes longer to discover that purpose (btw, I'm not endorsing determinism here...we create our own purpose). In the end it all comes down to our choices, and the following quotes from The Matrix Revolutions brings my point home:

Agent Smith: Why, Mr. Anderson? Why do you do it? Why get up? Why keep fighting? Do you believe you're fighting for something? For more that your survival? Can you tell me what it is? Do you even know? Is it freedom? Or truth? Perhaps peace? Yes? No? Could it be for love? Illusions, Mr. Anderson. Vagaries of perception. The temporary constructs of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence that is without meaning or purpose. And all of them as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as love. You must be able to see it, Mr. Anderson. You must know it by now. You can't win. It's pointless to keep fighting. Why, Mr. Anderson? Why? Why do you persist?

Neo: Because I choose to.



Life is as simple as that. Choose.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
Humans, being in charge of their thinking mind, have the option of living a life of misery or happiness. I disagree.
Originally posted by rendova
"Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
Abraham Lincoln He was wrong.
Originally posted by ~Sal~
We are here because we have chosen to be here. Our purpose is self-growth. We write our own script. No!
Originally posted by DrewM
Our purpose is whatever we choose it to be. Not you too!
Originally posted by ComicsGn
Life is as simple as that. Choose. Arrrggghhh!

Now you know I like you all but not only do I disagree with you all, I find this attitude quite frankly very distasteful. There is a famine in Niger at the moment - according to this attitude those babies have made the wrong choice (to be born in a famine??!!?) and are suffering the consequences of their bad choice.

It may be that most of us here - myself certainly included - are lucky enough to have a high degree of control over our lives, but that is not universal. Do not mistake your comfortable and meaningful life as due to your intrinsic ability to make good choices. There is an element of that, but it is largely overwhelmed by luck: the luck not to be born with a fatal or painful defect; the luck to be born in a stable country with enough resources for all; the luck to be born in a free society where one can get a reasonably satisfying and well paid job and so on.

To make an flimsy analogy imagine we are all at sea in little rowing boats. You do have a choice, you can row this way or that or just sit there hoping for the best. But rowing is such a small factor compared to the environment. If the weather is against you there may be a storm, huge waves, a whirlpool or whatever and your rowing choices won't make much difference. Conversely a lazy person who does not row at all may be lucky enough to enter an ocean current and drift to a paradise island.

Choice can exist but is largely a comforting delusion we use to credit ourselves as deserving to live a prosperous and enjoyable life. It's a complacent and unjustified self-satisfied attitude IMO.

Purpose is something humans need to go on withthier pathetic existance. It is not a how or why, but an evolving mechanism for survival. :hitout: :hitout:

Welcome Ginger_Fretelli!

Originally posted by ComicsGn
The question posed is far too complicated for anyone to truly answer. I might think the purpose of life is to expose more artistic beauty to those around me....but those are the thoughts of an artist. Everyone has their own purpose, their own reasons for living. Sometimes it just takes longer to discover that purpose (btw, I'm not endorsing determinism here...we create our own purpose). In the end it all comes down to our choices, and the following quotes from The Matrix Revolutions brings my point home:

Agent Smith: Why, Mr. Anderson? Why do you do it? Why get up? Why keep fighting? Do you believe you're fighting for something? For more that your survival? Can you tell me what it is? Do you even know? Is it freedom? Or truth? Perhaps peace? Yes? No? Could it be for love? Illusions, Mr. Anderson. Vagaries of perception. The temporary constructs of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence that is without meaning or purpose. And all of them as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as love. You must be able to see it, Mr. Anderson. You must know it by now. You can't win. It's pointless to keep fighting. Why, Mr. Anderson? Why? Why do you persist?

Neo: Because I choose to.

Life is as simple as that. Choose.

Great! - I love the philiosphy behind the matrix movies - so I'm glad to see it posted here.

Blob - I wouldn;t go so far as to say that we choose to be born in Niger vs the US, but I can go along mentally with an argument that propses it.

I tend though to agree with you that there is certainly luck, but what is luck. Does luck have a pattern? Just like it may be luck that it rains today or not, but from orbit - the pattern is clear & luck is preempted.

I tend though to agree with you that there is certainly luck, but what is luck. Does luck have a pattern? Just like it may be luck that it rains today or not, but from orbit - the pattern is clear & luck is preempted.I don't think it really matters whether the external factors that buffet us are random or deterministic in nature (in fact I agree with you that they are probably the latter). The point is only that they are largely and generally beyond our control - no matter our choices.

The main problem I have with the sentiments expressed by many in this thread is that the natural conclusion is "everyone is getting just what they deserve. Unhappy or suffering? That's your choice!"* We live in a grossly unfair and unjust world where that is evidently not the case.

*I know no one has actually said that but I do not think it is a misrepresentation - I am simply following the reasoning through.

not a case of what we deserve, for we all deserve nothing.

Remember also that if we all lived in caves - everything would be fair, what is perceived as unjust is often just a function of distribution of what we have created as a human race.

From them on it is luck as far we are concerned or luck being the only way for us to perceive it. So far "luck" is the best description we can provide that is universally understood.

It does not negate luck having a pattern within the chaos, but that pattern is not readily available if it exists. We'd need a new kind of satellite to see that pattern.

Originally posted by Blob
I disagree.
He was wrong.
No!
Not you too!
Arrrggghhh!

Now you know I like you all but not only do I disagree with you all, I find this attitude quite frankly very distasteful. There is a famine in Niger at the moment - according to this attitude those babies have made the wrong choice (to be born in a famine??!!?) and are suffering the consequences of their bad choice.

It may be that most of us here - myself certainly included - are lucky enough to have a high degree of control over our lives, but that is not universal. Do not mistake your comfortable and meaningful life as due to your intrinsic ability to make good choices. There is an element of that, but it is largely overwhelmed by luck: the luck not to be born with a fatal or painful defect; the luck to be born in a stable country with enough resources for all; the luck to be born in a free society where one can get a reasonably satisfying and well paid job and so on.

To make an flimsy analogy imagine we are all at sea in little rowing boats. You do have a choice, you can row this way or that or just sit there hoping for the best. But rowing is such a small factor compared to the environment. If the weather is against you there may be a storm, huge waves, a whirlpool or whatever and your rowing choices won't make much difference. Conversely a lazy person who does not row at all may be lucky enough to enter an ocean current and drift to a paradise island.

Choice can exist but is largely a comforting delusion we use to credit ourselves as deserving to live a prosperous and enjoyable life. It's a complacent and unjustified self-satisfied attitude IMO.

Those babies did not make the wrong choice.

I believe we write a loose script of our existence before we get here. We determine our personal journey through all stages of each life with the goal being total enlightenment. When we are home we have a greater vision than we do here. The physical body is merely a shell to allow us to experience different things which in turn allows us to grow. When we return here we have a particular purpose which we have chosen prior to arriving. It may be to teach others about death and starvation. It maybe to enlighten the world in a big way or a small way. We control in order to allow our experiences to enable us to grow.

This is just a loose sketch of what I believe but all is choice. How we behave while here is determined by our reactons to our environment and circumstances.

Naw, I still say that frame of mind determines your happiness.
I do not believe all people born in poverty will remain unhappy.
Do not combine material possessions with happiness.
Two people in the same bad circumstance can have two entirely different outlooks on life.
One can suffer mental turmoil over the plight and the other can accept the circumstance, enjoy what he can, and try to do better.

Some people born with a silver spoon in their mouth are the most unhappy people in the world, due to their frame of mind.

I once went, with a friend, to visit some of the poorist people that I have ever seen.
When we arrived the women were home and the men were out fishing. The women had all the stuff ready to cook the fish.
These people had no food in the house. Eating would depend upon the fishing success of the men. We were welcomed and invited to eat, if the fish were biting.

The only furniture in the house was a Juke Box in one corner and some pillows to sit on. Mattresses were on the floor to sleep on.
Several people lived in this house, I do not know how many, but eventually saw about 12 or 13 grownups and children.

These were the happiest people I have ever saw in my life.
The women were playing the Juke and dancing without a care in the world. When the men arrived they had caught fish and the party was on. We ate fish, danced, told stories, laughed, and I had such a good time I remember it- to this day.
Tomorrow, to these people, would take care of itself.

They chose to think happy.

I still think the thinking mind can be your worst enemy or your best friend.

Originally posted by Evakian
You will notice that the original post said share your theories, yet most of you just decided to be critical of my statement i merely placed on the thread to keep it going with something other than "to survive". If there is no greater pupose found in your life, there is no reason to continue and survive

Why??? There is an old saying it is better to have lived and loved then not lived at all. Life is just another stepping stone in something none of us understand. I wanted children and find them to be a huge part of life itself.

we are not animals

WHAT???? Your correct I'm a big block chevy 454 putting out 1500hp kicking a** and taking names. Sorry to burst your bubble but everyone of us humans are animals and as a species our main job is to keep our race alive.

we do not exist only to procreate and help maintain the ecosystems so that humans may live here, which is why animals are here like it or not.

Yeh, we were but here to make bombs and blow the sh** out of each other. Or better yet the earth was made just for us to over populate pollute and trash. Or maybe the whole purpose to life is to get rich and screw over as many folks as possible????


I mean a purpose aside from something physical "getting a motorbike" "getting a good job" are not things you can take with you to the next life (or lives). and no i am not referring to heaven or hell.

So could being on the earth as a human be a stepping stone for what ever comes next? Kind of like before we are adults we have to be babys.


To grow, or learn, to live and to feel, now that makes more sense despite being general.
Since we like to get off topic lets change it: COCA- COLA OR PEPSI?

All animals have feelings they know fear happy sad and anger, we just may be more advanced? So could a deer bear etc also be part of the stepping stone and also move onto the next stage?

I don't see your point about getting off topic you wrote and others answered back, still on the topic.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
Naw, I still say that frame of mind determines your happiness.


Dan, once again I agree with your posts, and just wanted to add. I personally know many disabled people some of them have CP and totally depend on others just to stay alive, but with all their problems they seem to be the ones that can meet people with a smile. I know many folks that have money 2.5 kids and the "perfect life", but are just miserable, enough is never enough.

This was not about "attitudes" "happiness" or "how you live your life" it was about the purpose of living, the reason behind your life.

HEad on over to the 'Pupose......reloaded' thread. New questions, and hopefully new responses. See you there

Originally posted by Evakian
This was not about "attitudes" "happiness" or "how you live your life" it was about the purpose of living, the reason behind your life.

HEad on over to the 'Pupose......reloaded' thread. New questions, and hopefully new responses. See you there
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey, we discuss all avenues here. Get used to it. ;)

*stands dumbfounded* you still failed to answer the question, instead discussing something different.


Anyway, to reiterate, head on over to Purpose...reloaded :D

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
Some people born with a silver spoon in their mouth are the most unhappy people in the world, due to their frame of mind.Indeed. Such people have a large degree of control over their lives and can arguably said to be accountable for their own unhappiness. However if someone is rich and happy I would consider them rather deluded if they did not attribute their happiness mainly (but not wholly) to having been born fortunate enough to take the control to be happy.
I once went, with a friend, to visit some of the poorist people that I have ever seen.
...
These were the happiest people I have ever saw in my life.
....
They chose to think happy.[/B]I saw poverty in Africa and it rarely went hand-in-hand with happiness or the power to make meaningful choices in life. Of course, poor people are just as complex and varied as the rest of us - but life is a grind. The problem I have with your analysis is that it suggests the poor should make do with what they have - and if they don't like it they are to blame for having an attitude problem.

Poverty means living in threatening environments, going without basic necessities and, in the third world, watching your relatives die young from treatable disease. Yet when I first arrived in Africa I often visited villiages where the people where incredibly hospitable and happy. It was only after a few months and years that people began to truly open up and reveal the horrors, the frustrations and travesty of being wretchedly poor. Every single African who lives hand to mouth yearns for a better standard of living. The poor are not content with their status for they do not have the power to make meaningful choices.

I agree that one must make a mental effort to be jovial. But it is your comfortable home, the guaranteed food on your table and your western income that is the fundamental determining factor, Dan.

Originally posted by Blob
I agree that one must make a mental effort to be jovial. But it is your comfortable home, the guaranteed food on your table and your western income that is the fundamental determining factor, Dan.

I am not certain if even that part is true and what I mean by that is maybe we do not even have that much control. I seriously make absolutely NO, ZERO, ZILCH, attempt to be jovial or to have a "good or positive attitude". Yet I see most things in a positive light. It just happens. I feel content with things. A friend of mine who is on anti-depressants on the other hand works extremely hard to keep a positive mental attitude. I really do think much of it is our inherent disposition.

And I think there is a HUGE difference between poverty here and starvation in Africa. As you have said Blob, being born in Western society gives us advantages others could only hope for in their wildest dreams. Over there it is life and death, over here we worry about fulfilling ourselves. They just try to make it through the next day.

Originally posted by Evakian
This was not about "attitudes" "happiness" or "how you live your life" it was about the purpose of living, the reason behind your life.

HEad on over to the 'Pupose......reloaded' thread. New questions, and hopefully new responses. See you there

Um... dude you need to chill...this is a posting board. If you seriously think you can control the thread then you are going to be disappointed in a big way. Same with your other thread...

You sound like a high-school teacher... this ain't school!

Now welcome to allforums... try to figure out the lay of the land before you try to direct the choir! And have fun!!!!

No one goes hungary in America unless it is by choice. There are food banks, soup kitchens, church giveaways and all sorts of places to get food.

In some countries there is no way to get food. Think of how horible it would be to have to watch your child go hungary, slowly starve to death before your eyes and have no way to get her food.

There is a level of poverty that takes away all human dignity.

To reply to Sal, yea i like it here, it is pretty fun. I like to ask questions and instigate debates to listen to other viewpoints


ad Echo
-No one goes hungary in America unless it is by choice. There are food banks, soup kitchens, church giveaways and all sorts of places to get food.

In some countries there is no way to get food. Think of how horible it would be to have to watch your child go hungary, slowly starve to death before your eyes and have no way to get her food.

There is a level of poverty that takes away all human dignity.-

Very true

Originally posted by Echo2
There is a level of poverty that takes away all human dignity.

excellent line!

Originally posted by Evakian
To reply to Sal, yea i like it here, it is pretty fun. I like to ask questions and instigate debates to listen to other viewpoints

Yes Evakian it is fun here... glad to have you aboard!

Originally posted by ~Sal~
I am not certain if even that part is true and what I mean by that is maybe we do not even have that much control. I seriously make absolutely NO, ZERO, ZILCH, attempt to be jovial or to have a "good or positive attitude". Yet I see most things in a positive light. It just happens. I feel content with things. A friend of mine who is on anti-depressants on the other hand works extremely hard to keep a positive mental attitude. I really do think much of it is our inherent disposition. Yes I totally agree. Some people seem effortlessly well-balanced, others do not. We are not blank slates in terms of personality when we are born.

Originally posted by Blob
Yes I totally agree. Some people seem effortlessly well-balanced, others do not. We are not blank slates in terms of personality when we are born.

The blank slate theory from those psych classes of 20 years ago was the biggest crock ever! Although I do believe you can take a baby who is genetically well balanced, put them through living hell and totally mess up their brain chemistry. Given drugs though, they likely would only need them temporarily to even things out and they would be fine unlike someone else whose brain chemistry was unbalanced to begin with and will need drug therapy for the rest of their lives.

Originally posted by Echo2
In some countries there is no way to get food. Think of how horible it would be to have to watch your child go hungary, slowly starve to death before your eyes and have no way to get her food.

This statement allways gets me thinking, if a person is in a horrible state no food home etc... then why in the heck would they bring a child into the world? I feel bad for some of the 3rd world country's because they are too stupid to pull their heads out of their arses and fix their living conditions. I also feel bad for the kids that are put into a bad situation, but when does the insane style of life stop? Which generation is going to grow up and say wow have we been stupid having kids when we can't even take care of ourselfs?

Originally posted by mad dog
I feel bad for some of the 3rd world country's because they are too stupid to pull their heads out of their arses and fix their living conditions.

Thats a really retarded thing to say,

These people's time is taking up with simply trying to stay alive in the harshest living conditions, Dirty water, Aids and other problems that hinder their chances.

You say it like they have some option to create utopia they are just too lazy or bone idol to bother. I do not think that is the case

Originally posted by mad dog
This statement allways gets me thinking, if a person is in a horrible state no food home etc... then why in the heck would they bring a child into the world? I feel bad for some of the 3rd world country's because they are too stupid to pull their heads out of their arses and fix their living conditions. I also feel bad for the kids that are put into a bad situation, but when does the insane style of life stop? Which generation is going to grow up and say wow have we been stupid having kids when we can't even take care of ourselfs?

Too poor to get birth control, too unschooled to know about birth control. One thing that will never stop as it is ingrained in us for the survivasl of our species and that is the sex drive.

In many countries women are not allowed to use birth control or are denied access without their husbands permition.

Too lazy to work? I cannot imagine a mother watching her child slowly starve to death being to lazy to work at anything. I would have prostituted myself if it meant getting food for my child to keep her alive.

Originally posted by Echo2
I would have prostituted myself if it meant getting food for my child to keep her alive.

Youd have prostituted anyway.

Loki, I believe you missed my point {my bad}. Lets say you are living in a cardboard box hardly eating and can't afford jacksquat what to you do? A} have a shit load of kids{or even one} B} do nothing, wait to see if a box of food will fall from the sky. C} hope that the US will step in and save the day D} get off your a** and do something about your way of life.

Echo, you bring up a good point but lets be real these folks are not so stupid that they don't know what can happen by screwing. I understand that in some countrys women are beat into a bad situation but I also no that sooner or later they have to wake up and take control their lives. I was watching a show the other day about how bad women had it so they formed a small group and started fighting back quess what things are changing, slow, but they are changing. If America can become what it has in the last couple hundred years then there is no reason these older societys can't do it in a couple thousand. I quess I'm sounding like the uncaring a** bag here but I refuse to help those that don't want to help themselfs and just keep adding to their troubles. When your way of life is worse then that of a rat you don't start popping out kids, bottom line.

anyway the purpose of living is to prove yourself worthy of god, no matter what befalls you. That is why we are here because god was lonely.

Originally posted by moneyangel2005
anyway the purpose of living is to prove yourself worthy of god, no matter what befalls you. That is why we are here because god was lonely.

Was that Atheist sarcasm or do you actually believe that?

Welcome moneyangel2005!

So life is reduced to a mere test? How disappointing for you. It must be very sad not to value your life in and of itself.

Originally posted by moneyangel2005
anyway the purpose of living is to prove yourself worthy of god, no matter what befalls you. That is why we are here because god was lonely.
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Now look at the vice-versa.

Now look at the vice-versa.

Good point Dan. Maybe man created god, because it was dark and scary at night, and the thought of a big empty sky, and random occurances was too terrifying a thought for people to handle.

I still believe that religous superstitions arose from moralistic bedtimestories told at night to chlidren to scare them straight.

The thought of no god is so scary to some poeple. It's like having your safety net pulled from beneath you, or having your puppet-strings cut.

mad dog, you underestimate the resourcefulness and tenacity of those in abject poverty. The poor survive, as the poor always have. It is a basic biological drive to survive and reproduce. You would have them stop doing so because essentially, you believe it is irresponsible.

It is a wholly Western point of view, and as such, is out of touch with the realities of the rest of the world. Your view of what "living like a dog" is and those of third-world nations are very different. You would have (insert country with near-total povery here) commit what would amount to self-genocide, simply because their way of life doesn't conform to what you think is livable.

America's position two-hundred years ago is vastly different from economic realities today. America had a huge continent to displace population growth, abundant natural resources, and a head-start in industrialization. It is folly to believe that our results can be achieved with starting conditions that are about as similar as apples and star cruisers. Not to mention the powerful multi-national corporations that prey on weak helpless nations or the absolute failure of the organization designed to help out (the IMF) to do so in any real fashion.

Your position is typical of clueless Americans and Britishers who live sheltered lives.

Originally posted by Napsterbater
Your position is typical of clueless Americans and Britishers who live sheltered lives.
Are you implying that cluelessness is typical of Americans in general?

I make no statements relative to America in general, it is impossible to do so. I am merely relating my experience of most of the clueless Americans I know.

And even if I was, so what? Being an American, I feel qualified to make general statements about the country I live in on my own authority.

Clueless about world matters, I would say yes, rescinding my earlier argument. The picture the mass media portray of the world and actual realities are very different. The combination of misinformation and the tendancy of Americans to overinflate their own intelligence does indeed lead to cluelessness. I have traveled this country all over and I have yet to have these assumptions proved wrong.

Originally posted by Napsterbater
I make no statements relative to America in general, it is impossible to do so.

Saying this


Originally posted by Napsterbater
And even if I was, so what?

makes this redundant

Napster, I'll repeat this for you

Originally posted by mad dog
I believe you missed my point {my bad}. Lets say you are living in a cardboard box hardly eating and can't afford jacksquat what to you do? A} have a shit load of kids{or even one} B} do nothing, wait to see if a box of food will fall from the sky. C} hope that the US will step in and save the day D} get off your a** and do something about your way of life.[quote]

[quote]these folks are not so stupid that they don't know what can happen by screwing. I understand that in some countrys women are beat into a bad situation but I also no that sooner or later they have to wake up and take control their lives. I quess I'm sounding like the uncaring a** bag here but I refuse to help those that don't want to help themselfs and just keep adding to their troubles. When your way of life is worse then that of a rat you don't start popping out kids, bottom line.

please read the last line, when you can not take care of yourself you don't start popping out kids, I don't give a flying f**k what country you live in. This is not about pitty partys for the poor country it is about life, and common sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Napsterbater
mad dog, you underestimate the resourcefulness and tenacity of those in abject poverty. The poor survive, as the poor always have. It is a basic biological drive to survive and reproduce. You would have them stop doing so because essentially, you believe it is irresponsible.

well lets say you are poor and don't have much to eat, "what the hey" why not have a few kids and makes times even tougher.

It is a wholly Western point of view, and as such, is out of touch with the realities of the rest of the world. Your view of what "living like a dog" is and those of third-world nations are very different. You would have (insert country with near-total povery here) commit what would amount to self-genocide, simply because their way of life doesn't conform to what you think is livable.

Oh mighty traveler person please keep telling me how dumb I am and keep telling my opinion. I did not say anything about wipping out a society I said have enough common sense not to keep repeating a terrible habit.

Your position is typical of clueless Americans and Britishers who live sheltered lives.

I won't speak for the Britishers I'll let Loki do that. I am a middle aged American that as been out of this country. Before you decide to put down the whole nation maybe you should get a clue 1st. Quit telling me what my thoughts are and trying to twist what I have posted. The way you have posted strikes me as you are the one that is "typically clueless".

Okay I'm done with my rant, so Oh Mighty Traveler tell me how Jesus feels.

I believe that my life's purpose is to be happy. And I believe that happiness is being and doing the best that we can be and do for ourselves, others, and the world.

I don't presume to speak for what others should consider to be their life's purpose. But they're welcome to adopt mine if they wish.

Loki, if you wish to make an argument, please feel free. I am all ears.

Mad dog, I really couldn't give a shit about Jesus. I am merely pointing out the deficiencies of your argument. Tis your choice whether to accept them or not, but my arguments are to benefit all watching this thread.

Again, you would have people ignore basic biology and the base desire to start a family on your whim. Again, your post is typical of Americans and Britishers who think the whole world needs to revolve around their opinion, then everything would be alright. Rant all you want, the world is not going to conform to your wishes, and even if it did, it would not solve the problem. Another tendancy of Americans is to oversimplify problems, i.e. "Well, it would all be alright if everybody would just..."

Should the third world experience a large population drop, that would only make it far easier for dictators and predatory nations to keep them under their thumb.

Your position is also logically flawed. You are assuming that conditions would improve after improving another one of the symptoms. You are treating the runny nose when you should be killing bacteria. And worse, you are doing it by attempting to adjust nobody has any control over. Is that the first thing you would do as dictator? Implement a China-like birth control policy? With that kind of attitude, you woudn't last long in office. Conditions are like that in the third world because they cannot be easily changed.

Oh but wait, here comes do-gooder American, defender of the good and free! He can do it! Everybody else has failed, but so what?

Originally posted by Napsterbater
The picture the mass media portray of the world and actual realities are very different.

Your 21,

Have you been to these 3rd world countries yourself? Seen first hand the level of poverty. Been to the streets of Iraq to witness the ravaged familys etc?

Because if you havent and the only place youve seen it is on the web, the tv or in the newspapers you best revise the above statement.

Originally posted by Napsterbater
Mad dog, I really couldn't give a shit about Jesus. I am merely pointing out the deficiencies of your argument. Tis your choice whether to accept them or not, but my arguments are to benefit all watching this thread.

sh** we better roll out the red carpet when you start posting. I don't mind a debate and learning but obviously I don't need to debate with you BECAUSE YOU HAVE ALL THE CORRECT ANSWERS !!!! Whats it like to be 21 and know everything?

Again, you would have people ignore basic biology and the base desire to start a family on your whim.

PUT your glasses on please and read what I write, not what you think. Anyone can breed, heck have fun while doing it, but atleast try to have the resourses so that they can take care of their offspring.

Again, your post is typical of Americans and Britishers who think the whole world needs to revolve around their opinion, then everything would be alright.

I think it's time for you to turn on the conveyer and get the sh** out of the barn, you seem to have plenty. I don't want anyone living under my rule, I want to see humans be responsible. Lets say you have a 4yr old are you going to give him a Harley to drive? I would hope not, this is my point about making babys while a person can't even fend for themselfs, its senseless.

Rant all you want, the world is not going to conform to your wishes, and even if it did, it would not solve the problem. Another tendancy of Americans is to oversimplify problems, i.e. "Well, it would all be alright if everybody would just..."

Okay know it all tell me how to fix the problem? Once again I don't want anyone to conform to my wishes. I said I will not feel sorry for someone that will not try to help themselfs. While they are not helping themselfs they feel the need to bring another life into there little world and make matters even worse. If your hand is cut do you shove it into a meat grinder?

Should the third world experience a large population drop, that would only make it far easier for dictators and predatory nations to keep them under their thumb.

Yeh, we wouldn't want them to live like us now would we, lets keep them poor miserable and pumping out even more babys.

Your position is also logically flawed. You are assuming that conditions would improve after improving another one of the symptoms.

So if Jill is poor hungry and doesn't have squat I quess her best bet would be to have a baby?

You are treating the runny nose when you should be killing bacteria. And worse, you are doing it by attempting to adjust nobody has any control over. Is that the first thing you would do as dictator? Implement a China-like birth control policy? With that kind of attitude, you woudn't last long in office. Conditions are like that in the third world because they cannot be easily changed.

I don't want to be a dictator and china needs a birth control otherwise they'll be falling into the ocean.

Things can't be changed, or are folks not trying to change them? No one said it would be easy but instead of giving them condoms and handouts we should be helping them to learn from their mistakes. It happens even here in the US, mom and pop were on welfare and pushed out a hand full of kids so junior does the same thing. Nothing changes until 1 of the kids decides to make their life better.

Oh but wait, here comes do-gooder American, defender of the good and free! He can do it! Everybody else has failed, but so what?

Now you're walking on both sides of the fence you either want to try and help or you don't. I would rather help with education not a bunch of hand outs. If the people decide they don't want to help themselfsfine, let them fall of the face of the planet.

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.

I walk on both sides of the fence, on top of it, dig under it, and obliterate the fence when I'm done with it.

I can't give you a play by play as to what would solve the problems of third-world nations, but I do think I'm qualified to point out what attitudes won't work. I run into attitudes like yours all the time and I hate to see all that mental energy go to waste on such foolish ideology.

But let me take a stab at a functional solution to the third world condition.

1st, implement checks on the power of multinational corporations to keep them from destroying the hard work of well-meaning citizens.

2nd, put foreign aid to real use, and stop subsidizing farmers at home, when farmers abroad can provide the same goods cheaper, and keep the profits at home too, instead of giving them away abroad. We control the keys to the global economy, its time we started using them responsibly.

Third, facilitate high technology overseas, building schools, colleges, and internet cafes, allowing nations to get the tech they need to join the rest of the world.

Forth, stop plying one group of rebels against another, and get the CIA out of the internal affairs of other nations. Conditions often demand that a dictatorship is the only form of government suitable to get anything done. A republic would only leave a weak nation more vulnerable to civil war. Leave Hugo Chavez alone. The US needs to get behind whoever is in power and support them, instead of playing geopolitical games.

Fifth, demand that the multinational drug conglomerates start doing their duty to people instead of chasing profits, by providing drugs to people at prices they can afford, or better yet, for free. Funding issues can be solved.

Hows that? We might not have caused the plight of third-world nations, but we are exacerbating the situation by provoking wars with powerless nations, calling for the heads of heads of state that we don't like, and in general being a selfish little brat in the global sphere.

Be patient young Napsterbater. With age comes insight. What sounds good on the service is oftentimes rotten in the core.

Ho shit. Somebody is just a bit arrogant.

2nd, put foreign aid to real use, and stop subsidizing farmers at home, when farmers abroad can provide the same goods cheaper, and keep the profits at home too, instead of giving them away abroad. We control the keys to the global economy, its time we started using them responsibly.
And at the same time, putting domestic farmers out of business! Lower the country's GDP and economic standing in the world's market!

Forth, stop plying one group of rebels against another, and get the CIA out of the internal affairs of other nations. Conditions often demand that a dictatorship is the only form of government suitable to get anything done. A republic would only leave a weak nation more vulnerable to civil war. Leave Hugo Chavez alone. The US needs to get behind whoever is in power and support them, instead of playing geopolitical games.
This, I would have to call, is absolutely moronic. Firstly, you have absolutely no idea whether a country could handle a republic or democracy. Secondly, dictators, no matter how benign, by their definition trample on human rights and create systems that become reliant on the dictator. Not only that, but any country under any form of tyranny or dictatorship is naturally less efficient than a well aged democracy or republic. Dictatorships are downright horrendous in any form, and in this modern world are quickly becoming more dangerous then they've ever been. Modern technology is allowing them to close off their population better than before and more modern weaponry is being used to keep them under check. Dictators are egotistical sociopaths by their nature and if given the chance would extend their power as far as they possibly could.

Blibblob, you ought to watch an anime I am really fond of. Its called Crest of the Stars and Banner of the Stars. It is a classic space opera in which the ruling race, the Abh, kept their domination to space, and left the planetary worlds to fend for themselves for the most part.

I am getting tired of this discussion and I am regretting having started it. Following the doctrine I wish the United States would, I am going to concede this unwinnable fight. This is beginning to resemble an episode of Crossfire. I want to discuss philosophy, not politics.

Echo, I disagree with you that with age comes insight. My own father has less insight than the proverbial ostrich. With age comes egoism and closed-mindedness, only insight if you are lucky.

Originally posted by Napsterbater
Oh but wait, here comes do-gooder American, defender of the good and free! He can do it! Everybody else has failed, but so what?

This attitude is rather prevalent among Americans I'd wager. It leads to a lot of conflict with other cultures. It's also the attitude that helped make this country what it is today. One of those supreme ironies of fate I suppose.

Welcome to allforums Napster...stick around, I think your presence would make for some interesting discussions. :)

Thanks! Indeed, I go through enough love-hate relationships with this country to rival Lucy and Ricky.

I think I will, you people amuse me. Nice to have admin endorsement. Keeps me from worrying about getting kicked off.

You are on morons.org, what is your alias?

Originally posted by Napsterbater
Thanks! Indeed, I go through enough love-hate relationships with this country to rival Lucy and Ricky.

I think I will, you people amuse me. Nice to have admin endorsement. Keeps me from worrying about getting kicked off.

You are on morons.org, what is your alias?

You haven't posted anything even remotely suggesting you should be banned. You write well, don't indulge in needless profanity, and seem to have at least a modicum of respect for the other posters here...what more could an admin ask? :)

On morons.org I'm The Hack, but I haven't submitted any articles for awhile.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
On morons.org I'm The Hack, but I haven't submitted any articles for awhile.
And I am (appropriately enough) BorgHunter, and I also haven't submitted any articles in a good spell.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
And I am (appropriately enough) BorgHunter, and I also haven't submitted any articles in a good spell.

Why not? Do they not let you just correct peoples grammar? :rolleyes: :D