As a foreigner in the US I frequently hear of people living the American Dream. I'm interested in finding out what people think this is, and whether it is still relevant in todays society. Responses may be used in an essay.

Cheers

stgeorge

Originally posted by stgeorge424
As a foreigner in the US I frequently hear of people living the American Dream. I'm interested in finding out what people think this is, and whether it is still relevant in todays society. Responses may be used in an essay.

Cheers

stgeorge
----------------------------------------

Welcome george, where you from?
I would answer: Unlimited potential.

Originally posted by stgeorge424
As a foreigner in the US I frequently hear of people living the American Dream. I'm interested in finding out what people think this is, and whether it is still relevant in todays society. Responses may be used in an essay.

Cheers

stgeorge

Welcome , George.

I would say the **American Dream** comprises -- for the vast majority of the dimwitted US citizenry-- the absurdist fantasy that this nation is "the bestest and most Godly and most benevolent and most honorable nation" on Earth.

The *dream* that any beer-guzzling, flag-waving, two-digit IQ consumerist drone who lives here can "succeed" and own their very own SUV and backyard swimming pool and home (mortgaged to the hilt) with an immaculate lawn........onto which they will spray all manner of chemical weedkillers and fertilizers, blissfully ignorant of and TOTALLY uncaring of what it means to the degradation of the planetary environment.

The *dream* that said beer-guzzling, flag-waving, two-digit IQ consumerist drones have that it is perfectly reasonable and proper for their sainted, righteous, godly and infallible political leaders to wage war (using the multi-trillion dollar war machine that the drone's unbelievably exorbitant taxes have paid to create) agianst any foreign country they please, against any foreign country whose natural resources are coveted by some US Corporation.

THAT is the American Dr........uhhh.......Nightmare.

______________________________

What is my problem? All my problems with America, that's what. The dumb certitude;
the blind conformity; the contempt for the poor; the facile amiability; the ostentatious
religosity; the callous laws; the worship of guns; the Hollywood sensibility; the
all-consuming fetish for material success; the showy insubstantiality of the politics;
the celebrity junk; the infantile literal-mindedness; and the faith, withal, in America's supposed
planetary moral superiority ---- in the notion that the American way of life is the best ever
devised, that America is, in Lincoln's phrase, "the last best hope" for mankind.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
----------------------------------------

Welcome george, where you from?
I would answer: Unlimited potential.

I'm an Englishman in the Mid-West. I moved here in September last year. I'm having a great time in my newly adopted home but inspite of the glaring similarities between here and my homeland, there are also some pretty huge differences. I am scribbling down my experiences here.

Howdy George,
I also live in the Midwest. How do you like our weather??!! Something, ain't it?
To me, the American dream means owning your own home or own land, being able to send your kids to decent schools, having good books to read of any kind, being able to travel at will to any place you choose, being able to rise above your station in life--by that I mean, if you are born poor, there is no reason to STAY poor, as there are jobs available if you are willing to work hard and educate yourself, and being able to finally retire in comfort.

Does the word putz mean anything to you, FT?

Originally posted by stgeorge424
I'm an Englishman in the Mid-West. I moved here in September last year. I'm having a great time in my newly adopted home but inspite of the glaring similarities between here and my homeland, there are also some pretty huge differences. I am scribbling down my experiences here.

I was in the same situation 11 years ago (moved to the midwest - St Louis - from the UK in 1994). Many things are possible here vs the UK. Salaries are much higher, everything is cheaper & more accessable & the amount of opportunities are far greater. I would never consider moving back to the UK.

If I was still in the UK I am sure my lifestyle would be a lot different at this stage. I love the US - life is really great here.

Two words (well really three)...Freedom and Happiness. That is what I consider to be my American Dream.

Originally posted by Tapeworm
Two words (well really three)...Freedom and Happiness. That is what I consider to be my American Dream. wimp

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The freedom to purue ones dreams, ability to travel freely, and the freedom to speak ones mind.

I would say the **American Dream** comprises -- for the vast majority of the dimwitted US citizenry-- the absurdist fantasy that this nation is "the bestest and most Godly and most benevolent and most honorable nation" on Earth.


Thanks for the welcome, and for the reply. Have you ever believed in a more 'traditional' conformist view of the American Dream? I can appreciate why many may think that it no longer exists, figures speak for themselves, the top percentile of the population pretty much owns the rest of the nation, however one can argue that this is the way of society as a whole in this day and age, not soleley a product of corporate America. To me, as an outsider the US is still a land of opportunity. And for the most part, the people here are certainly welcoming. I've been made to feel very much at home.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rendova
[B]Howdy George,
I also live in the Midwest. How do you like our weather??!! Something, ain't it?

Hi, and thanks for the welcome. I don't think I've ever had to contend with 104 degree heat before, and certainly not at seven o'clock in the evening! It will take some getting used to but I'm sure I'll cope.

Originally posted by DrewM
[B]I was in the same situation 11 years ago (moved to the midwest - St Louis - from the UK in 1994).

Hi, I've met several fellow expats up in Chicago. Where are you from in the UK?

I've also found the Americans to be very friendly and welcoming.

Originally posted by stgeorge424
I've also found the Americans to be very friendly and welcoming.
Thank you, George. Most of us try, but avoid New York and Los Angeles if you can.

I like NY. LA is a asphalt hell hole though.

Dream = freedom
Reality = quite another thing

"I came to America because of the great, great freedom which I heard existed in this country. I made a mistake in selecting America as a land of freedom, a mistake I cannot repair in the balance of my lifetime." --Albert Einstein, 1947

I wonder where Einstein would have rather lived in 1947...

Most of us try, but avoid New York and Los Angeles if you can. Cheap shot, Prae.

The American Dream, in one word, is "opportunity." With hard work and determination, you are free to create a better life for yourself and your family. Whether a "better life " means driving around in a Hummer or being able to teach paraplegics how to walk is up to you to decide. The opportunity is here; there are no built-in class barriers (like you see to some extent in the UK and quite a bit in other countries) which you simply can't cross.

i think america has no dream.they feel they own the world.thats a lie.:mad: :hitout: :bike:

U.S. doesnt own the world, but U.S. is world power.:banana:

Originally posted by stgeorge424
Hi, I've met several fellow expats up in Chicago. Where are you from in the UK?

I've also found the Americans to be very friendly and welcoming.

I am from the North East - near Middlesbourgh.

How long are you in the US for? How old r u - are you here on a H1B or L1 Visa?

The American Dream is whatever you want it to be, and to have the ability to aspire to it.

that's right.:hula:

Originally posted by usman_isaac
i think america has no dream.they feel they own the world.thats a lie.:mad: :hitout: :bike:

America doesn't feel it owns the world. There are many parts of the world that hold absoluetly no interest for Americans.

ya like shri-lanka,nepal,bhutan,etc.;)

Originally posted by DrewM
There are many parts of the world that hold absoluetly no interest for Americans.

True.

Specifically, those parts of the planet that possess no human or natural resources for US Corporations to plunder and subjugate and to wring every last cent of profit from.

Originally posted by Freethinker
True.

Specifically, those parts of the planet that possess no human or natural resources for US Corporations to plunder and subjugate and to wring every last cent of profit from.

Exactly - and what is wrong with that?

You need to get with the program buddy. Your insights are not that revolutionary - just nieve.

It makes me laugh when these radicals (like you) complain about how bad everything is - like there is some evil force behind everything. There isn't. Capitalism is a system that works very well thank you. It's capitalism behind what you complain about & I like capitalism a lot, it has it's problems sure, but the benefits are 1 million times more significant.

Maybe you prefer to live in a tee-pee in the forest wearing tie die clothes and dancing naked around the fire, but I like my suv, my house, my pool, my luxuries and so forth & I wouldn't give it up to satisfy some radical communist idea of reality that you have. Some utopia that wouldn't work anyway. Freethinker - you have a million problems and no solutions. That unfortuanately adds nothing to this world sorry. Being realistic doesn't make a person uncaring. Life is not so black and white as you percieve it to be.

Live in the real world instead of some ideologue fantasy world.

And if you persist in hating all that is good - then at least have some integrity - cast off your luxuries, your car, your house, your internet connection & PC - live in the forest off the land. If you do that - I will still not agree with you - but you will have my total respect that you at least live up to your own ideals.

The difference between you and me is - we think differently but I am true to what I believe - you are not true to what you believe one cent.

Originally posted by DrewM
Exactly - and what is wrong with that?

You really don't know, do you?

How I envy your ignorance.


Originally posted by DrewM

Maybe you prefer to live in a tee-pee in the forest wearing tie die clothes and dancing naked around the fire

I don't remember ever suggesting, or hinting at such a thing.

In fact, you are purposely lying and absurdly exaggerating to distort my viewpoint, since in the final analysis you have no argument except--"Well, i like my SUV and my luxuries, so let's not think about the people in the rest of the world whose sacrifices make my luxurious lifestyle possible".

I am well aware of the comforts and conveniences provided by our technologically advanced civilization.

I, like you, am very appreciative of those comforts.

But I think that the way that our government interacts with thte Corproate sector here is what needs changing. It needs MAJOR overhaul.

It would not mean going from what we have to living in the forest in teepees. It would simply mean that the huge mega-national conglomerates that provide such a luxurious lifestyle for the West would have to be far more responsive to and considerate of the needs of people and the environment than they are of endlessly seeking immense profits.


An advanced tecnological society CAN be provided to people without killing people in foreign countries, without plundering their human resources and enslaving them, and without destroying the planetary environment.

It would, however, mean that said corporations would have to accept less profit. And THAT they will not do. So the killing and the plundering and the destruction of the environment-- with the express approval and sanction of people of your ilk-- continues unabated.




Originally posted by DrewM
[B]I wouldn't give it up to satisfy some radical communist idea of reality that you have. Some utopia that wouldn't work anyway. Freethinker

I have never suggested nor hinted at any "communist idea" of reality.

I have never suggested nor hinted at any expectation of "utopia".

When you have to exaggerate, manipulate and distort someones else's views to make a point, you don't have a point to begin with.

Originally posted by sle143
U.S. doesnt own the world, but U.S. is world power.:banana: not for long. if we dont show that we can handle a few insurgents, we WILL lose respect !! and our intimidation factor.

Originally posted by Freethinker
When you have to exaggerate, manipulate and distort someones else's views to make a point, you don't have a point to begin with.
Stop cribbing lines, FT. ;)

Although you and I completely disagree, I think you mean well, and that counts for something I guess.

Lets face reality here, FT - you don't have the answer for how corporations could or couldn't make a profit effectively, so for the love of God, stop doing it. I agree with Drew - you gotta get with the program, or live by your words, but either way, stop talking and start doing something.

Originally posted by Freethinker
True.

Specifically, those parts of the planet that possess no human or natural resources for US Corporations to plunder and subjugate and to wring every last cent of profit from. FT, i dont know if you believe in god or not. but in the bible, it shows that at every point before god passed his judgement on man, man had become less like god wanted. they cared less for their fellow man, didnt care about the downtroddened. listen to the guys here. they all act just like man, and not like god request. these guys dont give a damn about the poor. they dont care about the weak, they take the land for granted. this is normal thinking for man, you dont fit in. you seem to care about people,, the land, and the strong championing the weak. this is how god planned for man to be, and this is also how god knew we wouldnt be in the end. man is too in love with himself........just listen to the talk. no one cares about the poor.......unless there's some money to be made.

Originally posted by korg
FT, i dont know if you believe in god or not. but in the bible, it shows that at every point before god passed his judgement on man, man had become less like god wanted. they cared less for their fellow man, didnt care about the downtroddened. listen to the guys here. they all act just like man, and not like god request. these guys dont give a damn about the poor. they dont care about the weak, they take the land for granted. this is normal thinking for man, you dont fit in. you seem to care about people,, the land, and the strong championing the weak. this is how god planned for man to be, and this is also how god knew we wouldnt be in the end. man is too in love with himself........just listen to the talk. no one cares about the poor.......unless there's some money to be made.
Well, well, well - what do we have here - Saintfucking Freethinker. Congratulations, you’ve just been canonized by Pope Korg I.

Originally posted by Freethinker
You really don't know, do you?

How I envy your ignorance.

I don't remember ever suggesting, or hinting at such a thing.

In fact, you are purposely lying and absurdly exaggerating to distort my viewpoint, since in the final analysis you have no argument except--"Well, i [b]like my SUV and my luxuries, so let's not think about the people in the rest of the world whose sacrifices make my luxurious lifestyle possible".

I am well aware of the comforts and conveniences provided by our technologically advanced civilization.

I, like you, am very appreciative of those comforts.

But I think that the way that our government interacts with thte Corproate sector here is what needs changing. It needs MAJOR overhaul.

It would not mean going from what we have to living in the forest in teepees. It would simply mean that the huge mega-national conglomerates that provide such a luxurious lifestyle for the West would have to be far more responsive to and considerate of the needs of people and the environment than they are of endlessly seeking immense profits.


An advanced tecnological society CAN be provided to people without killing people in foreign countries, without plundering their human resources and enslaving them, and without destroying the planetary environment.

It would, however, mean that said corporations would have to accept less profit. And THAT they will not do. So the killing and the plundering and the destruction of the environment-- with the express approval and sanction of people of your ilk-- continues unabated.

I have never suggested nor hinted at any "communist idea" of reality.

I have never suggested nor hinted at any expectation of "utopia".

When you have to exaggerate, manipulate and distort someones else's views to make a point, you don't have a point to begin with.

Don't assume that your points are not understood. They are very easily understood. Bravo to you for being aware of the problems in the world, but your view is all based around problems and not grounded in reality. You have no solutions.

You would have to kill the patient to solve your issues.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Well, well, well - what do we have here - Saintfucking Freethinker. Congratulations, you’ve just been canonized by Pope Korg I. well well well........do you disagree ? my point wasnt to make anyone seem above sin or bad thoughts. it just seems to me that he cares about poor and disadvantaged people. ONE attribute that god expects of people. this is not to say that he doesnt sin, but if we do NOTHING ELSE, god wants us to love and care about everyone..........everyone. that is an attribute that very few people seem to have ..........especially here

Originally posted by DrewM

You would have to kill the patient to solve your issues. i think his issues will cure the patient......but there's no MONEY in the cure. the money's in the medicine !

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Well, well, well - what do we have here - Saintfucking Freethinker. Congratulations, you’ve just been canonized by Pope Korg I. im no saint. if there is anything god would change in me, it would be my temper. which i thought martial arts would help........but it didnt, it just made me more proficient in the art of damage. prae, do you think you have the heart of the god you say you believe in ? not sin free, just the heart .

Originally posted by korg
i think his issues will cure the patient......but there's no MONEY in the cure. the money's in the medicine !

incorrect. An issue is not a solution.

i agree with DrewM!!
issue is not a solution!!

yes.every country have a dream notonly america.

Originally posted by korg
im no saint. if there is anything god would change in me, it would be my temper.
Well, you see, that's just it Korg - As you know, God's not going to change anything - If you want it changed, then you're going to have to do it yourself. If you think that's what "he'd" want, then don't feign pity for the people who believe that our "higher power" (or whatever you choose to call him) put us here to do things for ourselves. Championing someone's cause doesn't always have to entail condemning the wealthy because FT has a fucking moral crisis. Just as a rule of thumb, the rich will always be evil to the have-nots.
Originally posted by korg
prae, do you think you have the heart of the god you say you believe in ? not sin free, just the heart .
I'm a very loving and Godly person, Korg. There was this one time I was on the golf course, and it started to rain. I saw this dude get struck by lightning, and like that ::snaps finger::, I was on the phone calling the paramedics.

Originally posted by DrewM
Don't assume that your points are not understood. They are very easily understood. Bravo to you for being aware of the problems in the world, but your view is all based around problems and not grounded in reality. You have no solutions.

Au contraire.

I have myriad ideas and proposals that could result in solutions, if they were ever tried.

First proposal; stop granting Corporations the status of personhood. Totally seperate government from the Corporate sector, and end the country being run by Corporations instead of by the People.

Granting corporations the status of legal "persons" subverts the Constitution to serve Corporate interests instead of human interests. As long as Corporations continue setting the agenda on all issues before the People (with their bribery of the political whores in WAshington) we will continue to see the rich get richer while the poor get pooorer.

Originally posted by DrewM
You would have to kill the patient to solve your issues.

Untrue.

To stop the country being run --as it is currently-- by Corporations instead of by the People would likely result in --at first-- reduced profits for the Corporate sector. It would likely mean increased wages and workplace safety for the working classes. But it would in NO way mean the "death' of all corporations and businesses.

Second proposal;

Halt --immediately and forever-- the practice of indoctrinating the masses with superstitious beliefs. Begin to teach critical thinking in all public schools.

It would take a very long time to convert a populace from their superstitious mindset to one of scientific rationalism.....but it would eventually form the foundation for a progressive, humane and just society..........instead of a society filled with willfully blind uber-conservative drones who [somehow?!?!?!?] see nothing wrong with bombing other countries into submission so that we in the West can continue to live an insanely extravagant lifestyle.



.

Originally posted by korg
FT, i dont know if you believe in god or not. but in the bible, it shows that at every point before god passed his judgement on man

I find the promotion of the (superstitious) belief in an omnipotent *Man-in-the-sky* who watches over all of us, who "loves" us, but who will sentence anyone who fails to please Him to a life of everlasting torment to be the most abominable, despicable, destructive notion that homo sapiens has ever been afflicted with.

well i have no problem with your 2nd proposal, but the first one is just communism.

Well I don't know if it's communism, Drew, but either way, contrary to what FT's saying, it positively WILL NOT drive big business.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Well I don't know if it's communism, Drew, but either way, contrary to what FT's saying, it positively WILL NOT drive big business.

a) I do not know what you mean by "it positively WILL NOT drive big business".

b) Like you, I do not know if it would qualify as "communism". .....but it WOULD be very beneficial to the citizenry, regardless of what label it is given.

c) Going back to long ago in this nation's histroy, corporations had yet to be granted personhood.

According to Drew, during that prior era, America was communist.

Originally posted by Freethinker
I find the promotion of the (superstitious) belief in an omnipotent *Man-in-the-sky* who watches over all of us, who "loves" us, but who will sentence anyone who fails to please Him to a life of everlasting torment to be the most abominable, despicable, destructive notion that homo sapiens has ever been afflicted with. well then , let me put it like this. i think that you think about the masses, and not just one group in particular. that is the way it should be.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Well, you see, that's just it Korg - As you know, God's not going to change anything - If you want it changed, then you're going to have to do it yourself. If you think that's what "he'd" want, then don't feign pity for the people who believe that our "higher power" (or whatever you choose to call him) put us here to do things for ourselves. Championing someone's cause doesn't always have to entail condemning the wealthy because FT has a fucking moral crisis. Just as a rule of thumb, the rich will always be evil to the have-nots.

I'm a very loving and Godly person, Korg. There was this one time I was on the golf course, and it started to rain. I saw this dude get struck by lightning, and like that ::snaps finger::, I was on the phone calling the paramedics. this is a good post prae. but one thing i would say is the bible teaches a lot about helping the poor. sure, there should be tough love. and i agree that we shouldnt carry anyone. but a little compassion in your heart will take care of the ones that truly need help, and not just someone looking for a handout. your point is well taken ..:)

Originally posted by DrewM
incorrect. An issue is not a solution. i understand that. but what im saying is, his ideas about things being done RIGHT by the people, would help most everyone. the only ones it wouldnt help are the ones that dont want aything

every point should be from the president.like nigeria president been the second rule he want to suffer us.

Originally posted by DrewM
I am from the North East - near Middlesbourgh.

How long are you in the US for? How old r u - are you here on a H1B or L1 Visa?

Sorry for the delay in replying. I'm here permanently now, got my Green Card at the end of last year. I'm originally from London, Greenwich to be exact.

The opportunity is here; there are no built-in class barriers (like you see to some extent in the UK and quite a bit in other countries) which you simply can't cross. [/B][/QUOTE]

I agree, there does seem to be plenty of opportunity, however in terms of built in class barriers, class is still an issue as far as I can see, those with money will always find it easier to climb the social ladder than those without. No matter where you live, it is a question of who you know and how much you have

Originally posted by stgeorge424
As a foreigner in the US I frequently hear of people living the American Dream. I'm interested in finding out what people think this is, and whether it is still relevant in todays society. Responses may be used in an essay.

Cheers

stgeorge

Opportunity!

Originally posted by korg
.... but a little compassion in your heart will take care of the ones that truly need help, and not just someone looking for a handout. your point is well taken ..:)

What I've come to realize is that the people are better able to tell the two apart than is the government.

WOW THATS GREAT TO LEAVE AMERICA TO EUROPE.I WISH I COULD LEAVE AFRICA TO AMERICA.BUT EVERYONE HAS BAD THOUGHT OF THE EUROPIANS AND AMERICANS.WHY?

Originally posted by usman_isaac
BUT EVERYONE HAS BAD THOUGHT OF THE EUROPIANS AND AMERICANS.WHY?
In a word: Jealousy.