Geez,

This is something I've been barking about since the late 90's. How can the American government be so damn dumb? Why, oh why, did the U.S. open free trade with China? There was this mad magazine cartoon which depicted a family in Oklahoma. The entire family, with the exception of the dog, is looking in the wrong direction and has their fingers up their nose. The dog is frantically trying to point out that there is a tornado right behind them. I feel like that damn dog!


China's economy has been growing at the rate of 10% a year. So they have money. China also has zillions of its citizens in the U.S. and other countries asking questions about how things are built, or certain problems with physics or how things are done. So the Chinese have a massive spy network, that works like those bit torrent file sharing systems. A little piece of a larger problem is gathered by thousands of low-level Chinese spies, forming a bigger picture on how to solve a problem. So the Chinese now have technology. The Chi-coms also have ambition. These guys WANT Taiwan. The Chi-Coms WANT to be a Superpower, and they want the U.S. out of the way.

Money, ambition and technology. The Chi-coms have all these things. They are building a truly modern armed forces complete with AWAC systems (much like the E-3 Sentry) have acquired dazzling new figher aircraft (which look a hell of a lot like the new European Eurofighter), airborne refueling, a superb nuclear submarine, Aegis type warships, a modern main battle tank (which looks a hell of a lot like the German leopard tank) and nuclear missles capable of hitting the United States. Plus the odd aircraft carrier under construction.

There is also a rising tide of Chinese Nationalism. In the article I'll link to, Chinese has been called the first true facist society since Nazi Germany. So the Chinese have national unity and sense of purpose.

What do they want? Taiwan heads the list. But it may go much further than that. They may well be eyeing massive oil and natural gas fields in Eastern Siberia, throw in South Korea and Japan as well, I doubt they will leave those Countries alone.

The problem is that one of the Chi-Com big wigs announced that they are willing to nuke the U.S. to achieve its ambitions. There is also the fact that America WILL defend Taiwan if Taiwan is attacked. Add in that there are over a billion Chinese and the leadership will hide in very well protected bunkers leads to the conclusion that the Chi-Coms will be more than willing to fight a war of attrition with the U.S.

So, is this threat something vague and far off? No, the Defense Department anylists predict that in '07 or '08 will be about the time the Chinese feel they are ready to strike.

So, with this clear and eminent threat on the horizon, (you all remember how U.S. intellegence was blamed for not "connecting the dots" about 9/11?) why is the U.S. not building up it's own armed forces? Why is there no missle defense shield? Why are we not allowing the Japanese to arm themselves? It used to be U.S. policy that 500,000 troops could be deployed in any two places on the globe and supported? Why was that policy scrapped? Why is America not vigilent?

You guys can say I'm paranoid, and maybe I am. But I'd rather be wrong and prepared than right and not.

Dammit.



China gearing for war (http://washingtontimes.com/specialreport/20050SPAMSPAMSPAM-122138-1088r.htm)

China Will Nuke the U.S. (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/7/15/94638.shtml)

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
This is something I've been barking about since the late 90's. How can the American government be so damn dumb? Why, oh why, did the U.S. open free trade with China?

Because we can sell them lots and lots of really expensive high-tech stuff. And if we don't, someone else will.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
So, is this threat something vague and far off? No, the Defense Department anylists predict that in '07 or '08 will be about the time the Chinese feel they are ready to strike.


If China nukes the U.S., they'll also be nuking the gigantic market that props up their damn economy. I don't think it's gonna happen.

China nuking the US is very unlikely.

China has about 50 nuclear weapons, the US has about 7000 nuclear weapons. If China nuked the US they would certainly do a lot of damage and cripple the US, but China would be wiped off the face of the earth - not even a blade of grass would be left.

The remarks of that non-official in China were just bravado.

China is buying all it's weaponry - they have no self sufficiency in it. They may be building up their military but even in 20 years it will be nothing much in comparision to the US armed forces.

China will avoid a conflict over Taiwan that is a certainty. To start a war with the US would mean extinction for the Chinese race.

Why should they attack the U.S. when, if patient, they can buy it?

I agree with many of Darth's point but I cannot forget the pro-Democracy uprising by the students, who were massacred in the streets by their own Army.
I would bet that this has created a huge underground of citizens who are only waiting for the old bigwigs to die before they enact their revenge, and perhaps create a more sympathetic goverment--that is, a more Democratic gov't.

The pendalum is slowly swinging. China is becoming more emocratic and the U.S. is becoming more fascist. The irony is great.

Are you kidding, Echo? You see China as a "democratic" nation??? Don't get me wrong - they're taking steps in the right direction, but they're FAR from a democratic society. The work manufacturing has brought these people enabled large corporations (sanctioned by their government) to allow Chinese workers to live on site in an 8 ft by 6ft cell with running water and a toilet. They work for pennies a day in 13 hr shifts to feed themselves, and every country under the sun buys from them because they couldn't afford to compete if they had to make the products themselves.

Check into their environmental policies. You think we're bad...whoa - China is setting new records polluting. Here in this country we have you ninnies screaming about environmentally friendly companies, and the EPA has effectively chased chemical production, high-tech plastics, and general manufacturing into a country that cares NOTHING FOR THE ENVIRONMENT OR THEIR WORKERS, and people like you call us fascists, and them democratic because they're making progress, and we're stagnating. GOD, that pisses me off!

Jesus, don’t be an idiot.

I did say they were becoming more democratic. They have a long, long way to go. But I believe that when the last of the old guard conmmunists in power die off they will make faster strides. They made the mistake of educating their younger generations. Educated people want to be free. They understand political issues and most don't follow their leaders like sheep.

FYI - CHina has some very good environmental programs. But they have a long way to go.

And yes, our government is becoming more facist. You just don't see it because you are a sheople.

China is a huge country - you cannot go from communism to democratic capitalism over night.

The chinese know that. They do not want to be a repeat of the soviet union's path from communism to chaos and poverty.

China is steadily becoming a capitalist nation - they will eventually become democratic when the time is right.

they will eventually become democratic when the time is right.
It wont be slow. It'll be probably the bloodiest revolution the world has ever seen. And I doubt it will happen without some kind of push from the outside.

As mentioned, the Chinese people started to become educated, and that was dangerous to the survival of their tyrannical state. Now they're taking steps to put an end to that. Censorship in China is getting worse and worse. They're even starting to put together a Chinese based ISP that will be the only one there eventually. In the meantime they're taking steps to restrict information travel in and out of China by first asking, then requiring, current ISPs in China to use their filtering system that's horribly complex and apparently works quite well. The Chinese will probably end up closing themselves, culturally, off even better than the Soviets ever dreamed of doing.

Why, oh why, did the U.S. open free trade with China? Could it be that government cares far more about Corporations and trade rather than human rights and the future of its own citizens?

China is becoming more emocratic Bwahahahaa. All I could think of was chinese guys in suits with hair in their face.

As mentioned, the Chinese people started to become educated, and that was dangerous to the survival of their tyrannical state. Anyone smell a revolution?

Change can occur rapidly in China.
Around 1930, I do not remember the exact year, the Triad(China's organized crime), virtually overnight assasinated over 5000 communists which led to an overthrow of China's leadership.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
Why should they attack the U.S. when, if patient, they can buy it? Bingo! I'm assuming you don't mean that literally but become an economic power rather than go the military dominance route.

The worrying thing is though that as their economy grows so will their military. In a fast changing world who knows what the tension between the US and China might be in 10, 20, 30 years...

Originally posted by Blob
Bingo! I'm assuming you don't mean that literally but become an economic power rather than go the military dominance route.

The worrying thing is though that as their economy grows so will their military. In a fast changing world who knows what the tension between the US and China might be in 10, 20, 30 years...
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Yes, and lets not forget India which also has a Billion plus population.

In our false sense of security, we forget how small America is in the world.

Sure, right now we are left alone because we are the goose that lays the golden eggs.
But, what happens when other Geese enter the picture.

The chineese have a saying. "May you live in interesting times".

That could also be a curse.

Echo,

When you say "may you live in interesting times" it IS a curse, no could be about it.


I'm trying to warn people not to get complacent about the Chi-Coms. They are a long way from giving up power, are ammassing a huge military and are eyeing other parts of the world.

We need to be vigilant, which is something I'm just not seeing.

Which worries me.

Originally posted by Echo2
The chineese have a saying. "May you live in interesting times".

That could also be a curse.

I believe the full curse is "May you live a long life in interesting times and attract the attention of important persons."