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View Full Version : America has lost one of its "Heroes"


Dunkirk101
07-19-2005, 08:08 AM
Vietnam-Era Commander Westmoreland Dies By BRUCE SMITH, Associated Press Writer
Tue Jul 19, 5:46 AM ET



CHARLESTON, S.C. - Retired Gen. William Westmoreland, who commanded U.S. forces during the Vietnam War from 1964 to 1968 and advocated a strong military buildup at a time when American casualties were mounting, has died.


http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050719/capt.ny14407190307.obit_westmoreland_ny144.jpg



Westmoreland died Monday of natural causes at Bishop Gadsden retirement home, where he had lived with his wife, said his son, James Ripley Westmoreland. He was 91.

"I have no apologies, no regrets. I gave my very best efforts," Westmoreland told The Associated Press in 1985. "I've been hung in effigy. I've been spat upon. You just have to let those things bounce off."

The silver-haired, jut-jawed officer, who rose through the ranks quickly during World War II and later became superintendent of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, N.Y., contended the United States did not lose the conflict in Southeast Asia.

"We held the line. We stopped the falling of the dominoes," he said in 1985 at the 20th anniversary of the Army's 173rd Airborne Brigade's assignment to Vietnam. "It's not that we lost the war militarily. The fact is, we as a nation did not make good our commitment to the South Vietnamese."

As commander of U.S. forces in Vietnam, Westmoreland oversaw the introduction of ground troops in South Vietnam and a dramatic increase in the number of U.S. troops there. He also sought in vain permission to engage enemy forces in their sanctuaries in Cambodia, Laos and North Vietnam.

American support for the war suffered a tremendous blow near the end of Westmoreland's tenure when enemy forces attacked several cities and towns throughout South Vietnam in what is known as the Tet Offensive in 1968. Though Westmoreland fought off the attacks, the American public remained stunned that the enemy had gained access to the U.S. Embassy in Saigon, even if only for a few hours.

After the event, President Lyndon Johnson limited further increases in troops; Westmoreland was recalled to Washington to serve as the U.S. Army Chief of Staff after asking for reinforcements in response to the attacks.

Later, after many of the wounds caused by the divisive conflict began to heal, Westmoreland led thousands of his comrades in the November 1982 veterans march in Washington to dedicate the Vietnam War Memorial.

He called it "one of the most emotional and proudest experiences of my life."

After his four-year tour in Vietnam, Westmoreland was promoted to Army chief of staff from 1968 to 1972. He retired from active duty in 1972 but continued to lecture and participate in veterans' activities.

"I met him a couple of times," former South Vietnamese Maj. Gen. Nguyen Huu Hanh, who witnessed the fall of Saigon, said Tuesday. "He was a good man."

A decade after his retirement, Westmoreland fought another battle involving Vietnam.

In 1982, he filed a $120 million lawsuit against CBS over a documentary "The Uncounted Enemy: A Vietnam Deception," which implied he had deceived President Johnson and the public about enemy troop strength in Vietnam.

At the time, Westmoreland said the question "is not about whether the war in Vietnam was right or wrong, but whether in our land a television network can rob an honorable man of his reputation."

After an 18-week trial in New York, the case was settled shortly before it was to go to the jury.

William Childs Westmoreland was born near Spartanburg, S.C., on March 26, 1914, into a banking and textile family.

He attended The Citadel for a year before transferring to West Point. He graduated in 1936 and, during his senior year, held the highest command position in the cadet corps.

Westmoreland saw action in North Africa, Sicily and Europe during World War II. He attained the rank of colonel by the time he was 30.

As commander of the 34th Field Artillery Battalion fighting German Field Marshal Erwin Rommel, he earned the loyalty and respect of his troops for joining in the thick of battle rather than remaining behind the lines at a command post.

He was promoted to brigadier general during the Korean War and later served in the Pentagon under Army Chief of Staff Maxwell Taylor. Westmoreland became the superintendent of West Point in 1960 and, by 1964, was a three-star general commanding American troops in Vietnam.

In his autobiography, "A Soldier Reports," Westmoreland wrote that in Vietnam, while he "tried to avoid any vendetta against the press," he sometimes resented the time he had to spend correcting "errors, misinterpretations, judgments and falsehoods" contained in news reports.

But he wrote that the press is "such a bulwark of the American system, that it is well to tolerate some mistakes and derelictions to make every effort to assure that total freedom and independence continue to exist."

In later years, Westmoreland often spoke to Vietnam veterans' groups, accepting invitations to visit veterans' groups in all 50 states, his son said.

"That became, in effect, his raison d'etre," the younger Westmoreland recalled. "He did have a point of view on Vietnam but he did not speak about that. He was not out there trying to justify anything."

In addition to his son, Westmoreland's survivors include his wife, Katherine, and two daughters, Katherine and Margaret.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050719/ap_on_re_us/obit_westmoreland

Travh20
07-19-2005, 09:14 AM
any minute now we will have 20 posts about all the attrocities he ordered with the corresponding links to the "proof", and we will hear what an A hole and racist he was.

astrapol2
07-19-2005, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by Travh20
any minute now we will have 20 posts about all the attrocities he ordered with the corresponding links to the "proof", and we will hear what an A hole and racist he was.

Really ? Was he ? How ironic it's you who raises the issue. Sometimes I wonder if you're not a bit masochist (no offense).

rendova
07-19-2005, 09:52 AM
blue

I'm afraid that I'm more than a bit ignorant on this man's background.
Can someone please provide a fair and balanced take?

~Sal~
07-19-2005, 10:12 AM
"I have no apologies, no regrets. I gave my very best efforts," Westmoreland told The Associated Press in 1985. "I've been hung in effigy. I've been spat upon. You just have to let those things bounce off."

I don't know of the man but just because he was a military commander does not automatically make him someone to despise or heartless. I have friends whom I highly respect who rose to very high positions in our military. That gave me a new perspective; one I did not have when I was younger.

It makes me feel bad that one human being would spit upon another. However, he says he has no apologies and no regrets. I hope that is true for him. He says he gave his best. Most could not put those two sentences together and mean it. He lived to a ripe old age in spite of seeing combat. Good for him and cheers!

DrewM
07-19-2005, 10:20 AM
He never once would admit that the US lost the vietnam war. That makes him either incredibly dumb or incredibly arrogant. Neither great traits of a good leader.

Echo2
07-19-2005, 10:22 AM
He was a great general who had the unfortunate job of trying to fight a war without political buy in. The politicians tied his hands.

What I know of him was that he was an honerable man who was devoted to doing the best he could for his troops. It is unfortunate that the politicians ignored his advice. -- Just as they are doing with our current generals and the war in Iraq.

rightofcommie
07-20-2005, 01:23 PM
r.i.p. sir
you served your country well now it is off the the big general quarters inthe sky
hoo-rah sir!

rightofcommie
07-20-2005, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by DrewM
He never once would admit that the US lost the vietnam war. That makes him either incredibly dumb or incredibly arrogant. Neither great traits of a good leader.
vietnam was a tough time for all of our lifer soldiers, they had to serve their army and be spit on at the same time by nut job card burners.
i believe everyone of them gave every ounce of their heart for their fellow soldier to get home that night, tio base camp for a beer and steak.
that is what it is all about, unfortunatley it's true.

Echo2
07-20-2005, 02:30 PM
FYI - More like ground beef on toast and warm soda. But you have the right idea.

Even the beer over there was warm. We used to drink it on ice.

Darth Be'lal
07-20-2005, 05:57 PM
No Drew,

I agree with Westmoreland's version of what happened in Vietnam. THAT war could've been won, it was politics and not the fighting itself that lost the war for the U.S.

More specifically to my point, I've read a book by Jack Broughton called "Going Downtown." Jack flew Thuds (F-105 Thunderchiefs) over North Vietnam and into Hanoi occassionally. Was there the MOST sophisticated anti-aircraft denses in and around Hanoi at the time? You bet, Mr. Broughton watched them being built, and was ordered not to touch them. Were there MiGs ready pounce on American aircraft when they got to North Vietnamese airspace? Yep, couldn't touch those either. Was there a nice fat port at Haiphong shipping in zillions of tons of materials? Yep, and nothing was done about that. The details Jack got into were enough to make my hair stand on end. It was like reading a nightmare.

On the ground, if the enemy got over the border into North Vietnam, they were safe. If the North Vietnamese got into Laos or Cambodia, they were safe. American soldiers and people like Broughton and Westmoreland found themselves in a fight where they had to play by rules that the North Vietnamese government may as well made for the U.S. troops.

Westmoreland had a point. The Vietnam war could've been won. I blame that jackass McNamara for getting some 60,000 of our soldiers killed and I blame that son of a bitch LBJ for getting us into the Vietnam war in the first place.

es347fan
07-20-2005, 09:41 PM
Saint John the Kennedy is the one who sent troops to 'nam LBJ just followed through & escalated.

Not only was the beer hot, after months in transit, it was plain nasty. Sodas were the better choice, even hot ones.

Imagineer
07-21-2005, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by Travh20
any minute now we will have 20 posts about all the attrocities he ordered with the corresponding links to the "proof", and we will hear what an A hole and racist he was.

So far Trav, you have been proved wrong in your prediction. General Westmoreland did an excellent job of fighting a war that Washington was not willing to commit to winning or ending. Eventually the American people forced an end to the war. I think the War in Vietnam is one of the best arguments for requiring military service for our Presidents.

es347fan
07-21-2005, 05:01 PM
Had the U.S. military been turned loose to do what all those flag officers and their subordinates had been trained to do, Viet Nam would have been over with, and certainly without the 58,000+ names on the Wall in D.C. But no, the politicians had to screw it up - and look what it took to end it.

Darth Be'lal
07-21-2005, 05:43 PM
es347fan,

You are right that America did get involved in Vietnam before the LBJ Presidency. Kennedy did indeed send military advisors to Vietnam to resist the North Vietnamese. I was refering to the Gulf of Tonkin incident when North Vietnamese gunboats supposedly attacked two American destroyers, the Maddox and Turner Joy. LBJ used this attack as an excuse to take an active hand in helping the South Vietnamese stave off the North Vietnam government.

Looking back at this debacle LBJ led us into, I have concluded that LBJ wanted to use the Vietnam war as a political feather in his cap. Send troops to Vietnam, have them flex a few muscles and growl a bit and the North Vietnamese would cease their attempt to take South Vietnam. Who'd dare take on the U.S.? Of course, in my opinion LBJ was a complete jackass and had no idea of what he was getting America involved. The North Vietnamese, under Ho Chi Minh, had been fighting the French, (the U.S. supported France in their attempt to win back Vietnam, the French, however, supported the North when the U.S. went to war against North Vietnam, just gotta love the god damned Frenchies) the Japanese during the Second World War, the French again when Vietnam was trying to throw off Colonial Rule, then it was the Chinese before that (I think). Jackass LBJ and super Jackass McNamara either weren't interested, didn't care or were just plain stupid. LBJ and McNamara obviously didn't take into consideration just how hard the North Vietnamese were going to fight, they never conducted a National Intelligence Estimate to determine what China might do if fighting spread into North Vietnam and put down this fatal rules of engagement that seemed purposefully designed to help America lose the war in Vietnam and cost the lives of some 60,000 young men. By the time Nixon took over, he was handed a dog's dinner and there wasn't much HE could do to win the war, as anti war sentiment swept the country.

The fact that LBJ and McNamara wasted the lives of our soldiers enrages me, dammit.

es347fan
07-21-2005, 08:40 PM
Not to cast LBJ in any favorable light, mind you, it's just that the other clown ... JFK ... doesn't get the discredit so richly deserved.