Blair confirms authenticity of Downing Street Memos ...

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=6736

Looks like this puts an end to the not authentic argument from the right.

Nice try guys and gals but in real life ... the truth usually wins out.

ROTFLMAO

Bwahahahaaa...

Apparently to Trav cahnging your mind due to logical discussion is "selling out". So it goes in the Stalinesque Bush regime....

Drew - you nothing but a political hack. Bush lied plain and simple. The so called intelligence was considered shaky at best. Bush was warned repeatedly not to use WMD as a justification. He was told the intelligence wasn't reliable before his SOTUA . He still swent on and said things like "there is no question" and "there is no doubt". These are obvious lies because there was plenty of doubt and it was expressed to Bush many many times.

However now you have decided to lie for Bush. Good job fellow Bushevik. The 6 year plan is at hand...

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Blair confirms authenticity of Downing Street Memos ...

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=6736

Looks like this puts an end to the not authentic argument from the right.

Nice try guys and gals but in real life ... the truth usually wins out.

ROTFLMAO it also brings us closer to BUSH LIED !!!!! OH, BY THE WAY, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. ANYONE TAKING THIS ANY OTHER WAY....GFY !!!

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Decka - I don't give a damn about kerry. He was in it with bush (via skull and bones) and the liberals in here are to brainwashed to comprehend such things (besides the fact that his entire platform was a pourly watered down version of the republican platform). My point was "Stick to the goddamn issue". Do you seriously think that just beccause kerry was a shithead that excuses bush for being a shithead? No it doesn't. Kerry has aabsolutly nothing to do with this shit. So why not stick to what we are actually talking about instead of bringing up useless partisan crap. This is the problem I have always had with political discussion boards - Asshats who are cheering for a team instead of upholding their ideals. ABSOLUTELY. i didnt care about herman the munster either. but i sure didnt like alfred e. bush !!! both should have lost ! but herman ( kerry) did win the debate. he just failed manipulation 101 ! and thats the only class bushfuck passed !!!

Well dop and all the others who wish to use the Downing Street Memo to bring down Bush.

I've been surfing the web and you won't believe what I came across.

First off, everyone here knows that the original Downing Street Memos were copied by a reporter, then destroyed. No question about that. The question is if this reporter copied the memo faithfully or was he "fixing the facts" to fit the notion that Bush was lying to go to war. But that isn't the clincher.

Blair says, according to the link Dop provided, that the Downing Street Memo was genuine. But that isn't the clincher either.

The clincher is, and read this part carefully, the clincher is that intelligence of all Western nations AGREED with what Bush was saying.

So either A) Bush wasn't fixing the facts but was using intelligence that other European intelligence agancies agreed on. or B) Bush was REALLY fixing the intelligence and fixed ALL the intelligence from all European intelligence services.

WOW, now that would be a conspriracy.


Downing Street Analysis (http://floppingaces.blogspot.com/2005/06/are-downing-street-memos-real.html)

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Well dop and all the others who wish to use the Downing Street Memo to bring down Bush.

I've been surfing the web and you won't believe what I came across.

First off, everyone here knows that the original Downing Street Memos were copied by a reporter, then destroyed. No question about that. The question is if this reporter copied the memo faithfully or was he "fixing the facts" to fit the notion that Bush was lying to go to war. But that isn't the clincher.

Blair says, according to the link Dop provided, that the Downing Street Memo was genuine. But that isn't the clincher either.

The clincher is, and read this part carefully, the clincher is that intelligence of all Western nations AGREED with what Bush was saying.

So either A) Bush wasn't fixing the facts but was using intelligence that other European intelligence agancies agreed on. or B) Bush was REALLY fixing the intelligence and fixed ALL the intelligence from all European intelligence services.

WOW, now that would be a conspriracy.


Downing Street Analysis (http://floppingaces.blogspot.com/2005/06/are-downing-street-memos-real.html) you can mix this shit up in what ever fashion you want ! at first it wasnt a credible source. then it wasnt bush's fault. now its that everyone joined in. if you need this many excuses, somethings wrong !The so called intelligence was considered shaky at best. Bush was warned repeatedly not to use WMD as a justification. He was told the intelligence wasn't reliable before his SOTUA . He still swent on and said things like "there is no question" and "there is no doubt". These are obvious lies because there was plenty of doubt and it was expressed to Bush many many times.

Originally posted by korg
you can mix this shit up in what ever fashion you want ! at first it wasnt a credible source. then it wasnt bush's fault. now its that everyone joined in. if you need this many excuses, somethings wrong !

either that or it was right....

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal

The clincher is, and read this part carefully, the clincher is that intelligence of all Western nations AGREED with what Bush was saying.

So either A) Bush wasn't fixing the facts but was using intelligence that other European intelligence agancies agreed on. or B) Bush was REALLY fixing the intelligence and fixed ALL the intelligence from all European intelligence services.

Or (c) Bush really WAS fixing the intelligence and the other nations in question had little choice but to go along with the dictates of the military and economic superpower that could crush them like a bug if they had the unmitigated effrontery to dissent from or disagree with that view.

Korg,

First off, what's up with the swearing?


Secondly, I'm not making excuses, nor am I engaging in spin contorl (remember that little phrase?). I did point out that the Downing Street Memo that is being debated was indeed a copy of an original with the original destroyed. That IS fact. Nobody denies that part.

Secondly, I've also found out that Bush used the same intelligence that every other Western intelligence agency verified to be true.

So, that's two strikes and you guys are out. Strike one, the Downing Street Memo is a fake copy and there is no telling what the original said. Strike two is that Bush didn't fake any intelligence. Bush didn't "fix the facts" to justify invading Iraq. Various Western itelligence agencies agreed with Bush's allegations that Iraq had WMDs. These countries include the " United States, Canada, France, the United Nations, the United Kingdom, Germany, Spain, Australia, Japan, even Iran"


Hell, Bill Clinton BACKED George W Bush on the claim as did Canada's Prime Minister Paul Martin, a socialist type that is no friend of Bush. HE stated that terrrorists have acquired IRAQ'S WMDs and the world is in trouble. I'll be sure to post the link on that one.

So, what do we have, Mr Korg? We've got phony documents yet again and worldwide intelligence reports stating that Bush was right. I think the libs and the dems are going to have a rather tough time convincing anybody that Bush lied. Don't you?

Oh, and here are your links, HAPPY READING!





Intelligence reports agree with Bush (http://www.worldthreats.com/middle_east/Iraq%20and%20Evidence%20of%20WMD.htm)

U.N. Confirms WMDs Smuggle out of Iraq, Clinton, Martin Agree. (http://editorials.arrivenet.com/gov/article.php/279.html)

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
I did point out that the Downing Street Memo that is being debated was indeed a copy of an original with the original destroyed. That IS fact. Nobody denies that part.

The DSM was not a copy in the sense it was placed on a copy machine and duplicated ... it was hand-typed on a conventional typewriter from a copy, not the original, then the copy was destroyed (not the original because he didn't have the original to destroy).

Therefore, the original(s) -- there are several of them -- are still intact and in strong hands and can be produced in a moments notice if necessary.

The typed copy [sic] has been authenticated by several officials on both sides of the pond, most recently by Blair himself.

Darth -- believe the rest of the world when they say the DSM is genuine. You're the only one left that is still claiming it's a fake.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing

Darth -- believe the rest of the world when they say the DSM is genuine. You're the only one left that is still claiming it's a fake.

Tony Blair Confirms Authenticity of Downing Street Memo- ----51 Congressmembers File FOIA Request

PRESS RELEASE Wednesday 29 June 2005 - for immediate release

Prime Minister Tony Blair has confirmed the authenticity of a Downing Street memo in which Sir Richard Dearlove, the former head of MI6, tells Mr Blair that the Bush administration was "fixing" the intelligence and facts about Saddam Hussein’s regime to back up a decision that had been taken to invade Iraq as early as July 2002.

The Downing Street memo which was leaked to the Sunday Times newspaper in May 2005 has become a critical issue in the US. Senators Kennedy and Kerry have joined the escalating debate by writing to the President asking whether or not the memo was authentic and accurate. Downing Street has previously refused to comment on the memo’s authenticity, but challenged for the first time on the floor of the House of Commons the Prime Minister has finally confirmed its authenticity.

Speaking after Prime Minister’s Questions, Adam Price MP said:

"The confirmation that the memo is authentic will cause ripples throughout the United States where 122 Members of the US Congress have written to the President asking if Sir Richard Dearlove’s statement in the memo, that ’the intelligence and the facts are being fixed around the policy’ is correct.

"I challenged the Prime Minister on whether Sir Richard Dearlove was a reliable intelligence source, and if so, could he confirm whether his statement was an accurate assessment of the Bush administration’s intentions and actions. In his answer, the Prime Minister refuses to distance himself from the assessment made by the former head of MI6 and simply goes on to say resolution 1441 changed the position. I fail to see how this is relevant to my question.

"Today is a significant step forward in establishing the truth about the US and UK’s policy to invade Iraq. However difficult it proves to extract information about the war from the government, the Prime Minister must be held to account by Parliament, and the President must be held to account by Congress."

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/590

Originally posted by Decka
either that or it was right.... which f@##$g one. the noncredible source, the person thats lying ? which lie was the right one decka ?

Originally posted by Freethinker
Or (c) Bush really WAS fixing the intelligence and the other nations in question had little choice but to go along with the dictates of the military and economic superpower that could crush them like a bug if they had the unmitigated effrontery to dissent from or disagree with that view. THERE IT IS DARTH !!! this is what i believe. so that is that. just because some scared countries cowtowed to bush, doesnt make this right. oh, has anyone seen colin powell ? why dont you ask him !

Dop,

I am well aware of how the Downing Street Memo was copied. I'm also aware that the original copy was destroyed along with the rest of the memos that were photocopied from the original Downing Street Memo. This was done so that people can't use defects from the original (a dark blot on the paper, a smudged word, the FBI agent who wrote "Mindhunter" detailed how that was done and how a person who leaked documents was found out that way) to trace who leaked what document. So, no originals were left, and a "copy" that was hand typed is the only evidence people have of any wrong doing by Bush. Flimsy evidence to begin with. Plus, I DID point out that the intelligence Bush used was agreed upon by other major intelligence agencies in several other countries.

Freethinker, it's time to move on. Your evidence went up in smoke, literally, there's no telling what the original Downing Street Memo said. YOU DON'T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE OF BUSH DOING ANYTHING WRONG, AGAIN! If people would just put the kind of energy they are using to Get Bush into hunting down terrorism, there wouldn't be a single free terrorist on the planet anywhere.

Also, I'm not impressed, at all, by what those on the Democrat side of the aisle are saying or doing. These are the same people who demanded a second hearing on why the U.S. should go after Saddam, they demanded evidence, they could've gone to original sources, they could've investigated for themselves, they could've taken all the time in the world, yet they voted to authorize the ousting of Saddam. If these guys were really serious about pulling the troops out of Iraq, they'd be making a ruckus about cutting the funding needed for the War in Iraq. They're not because they know what they are doing is bilge and they are just trying to score polictical points with the moveon.org types. What the dems are doing is one big boondoggle and I'm not falling for it.

Tell me, freethinker, did you read the links I've placed in my post? Did you? Bill Clinton himself agreed that Saddam had WMDs and even defended Bush's actions in Iraq. The Prime Minister of Canada, Paul Martin, agreed that Saddam had WMDs and they are now MISSING. Does this sound like Bush is lying? Read the links, then come talk to me, dammit.

Also, I dont' care that "everyone" says the Downing Street Memos are real. "Everyone" could say the Earth is flat and the the moon is made of green cheese and that wouldn't make those two statements true, now would it? I've read articles and posted links stating that the Downing Street Memos are false, if anyone cares to read them, they'll know the truth.


Korg,

As the man said, "think McFly, THINK" *pounding on his head* there is not one damn thing Bush could do to intimidate other countries into agreeing with ANYTHING Bush is doing. Hell, France, Russia and Germany have been giving the U.S. the finger ever since Bush got serious about taking down Saddam. Do you honestly think that that bunch would balk at providing evidence that Bush was dead wrong on Iraq? Especially with the Get Bush crowd holding such a tight second place?

If you are going to trip me up, you are going to have to be getting up VERY early in the morning.

Dammit.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Dop,
So, no originals were left, and a "copy" that was hand typed is the only evidence people have of any wrong doing by Bush. Flimsy evidence to begin with.



You were doing real good until you got to this part Darth ...

There are originals ... plenty of them in fact. These are meeting minutes which every attendee of the meeting would have received.

IOW -- 12 people attend a meeting there would be 12 originals of the minutes -- 24 people at the meeting would produce 24 set of originals and so on and so forth.

This is why no one is seriously challenging the copies ... he would just go get a set of the originals and shove them right in that persons face.

Splitting hairs, dop?

That reporter who destroyed the Downing Street Memo original HAS NO OTHER COPIES and there are no other copies publicly available.

Let's see, I think that's strike 5. Try again!

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Splitting hairs, dop?

That reporter who destroyed the Downing Street Memo original HAS NO OTHER COPIES and there are no other copies publicly available.

Let's see, I think that's strike 5. Try again!

OK Darth -- I'm not going to argue semantics with you. I'll just leave it with my opinion which is ... the originals can be produced in a heartbeat and will be if necessary.

Batter up :D

If the DSM were lies or inaccurate then BushCo would have demanded that they be released to clear Bush of getting US troops killed for lies. They didn't do this. Instead they whored out McCain to say he didn't think they were real (as if his opinion matter and is somehow news worthy); and Bush issueing half-assed denials. Why don't they ask the british government to produce the originals? Because it would confirm they are acurate...


Whats really funny is Bush's denial of the DSM contradicts his very own statements from a year ago...

"somebody said, Well, you know, we had made up our mind to go to use military force to deal with Saddam. There's nothing farther from the truth. My conversations with the prime minister was how could we do this peacefully, what could we do." - Bush, July CBS News

"I'm a war president. I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with war on my mind." - Bush, On NBC's "Meet the Press", Feb. 8, 2004

from: http://dailykos.com/story/2005/7/5/142845/5376

"On the day before the president's speech, the Berlin station chief warned about using Curveball's information on the mobile biological units in Bush's speech. The station chief warned that the German intelligence service considered Curveball "problematical" and said its officers had been unable to confirm his assertions. The station chief recommended that CIA headquarters give "serious consideration" before using that unverified information, according to the commission report.

The next day, Bush told the world: "We know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile weapons labs . . . designed to produce germ warfare agents and can be moved from place to a place to evade inspectors." He attributed that information to "three Iraqi defectors.""