http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-5079861,00.html

Google the Durbin story for every possible negative comment you can imagine.

GASP!!!!!!.......with our "liberal Media", who would have thought the negative comments would outnumber the positive comments (concerning what Senator Durbin said) by 1000 to 1.

No, make that 10,000 to 1.

No, make that infinity to 1, since I cannot locate ANY positive reinforcement for Senator Durbin's remarks.......and with this country having such a (supposedly) faaaaaaaaaaaar Left Media!!!!!!.....it simply boggles the mind!!!!!

Seriously, the uber-Conservative owned and controlled Media in the US is having an absolute fucking field day with this story.

Durbin has sudddenly become the most traitorous human being on earth.

According to the mainstream Media, anyway.

As for me. I am writing an e-mail to Durbin's office exspressing my unending gratitude at seeing a Corporate lapdog (IOW, a member of Congress) FINALLY having the courage to speak the truth, and to expose the staus quo for what they are.

I can NOT tell you how much I admire Durbin for exposing and criticizing the treatment of the prisoners at Guantanamo.

The EXACT context of Senator Durbin's remarks was (and it was true) that IF a person were to hear of a prisoner being chained to a tile floor in the fetal position for 2 days, being subjected to tremendous heat and amplified noise, it would bring to mind the sort of treatment one could expect that Nazis and Pol Pot would have subjected people to.

Nothing more.

And Durbin is 100% CORRECT.

Senator Durbin has restored a tiny bit of my faith in the humanity of people in this government, and I applaud him and respect him and his remarks more than words can say.

If the Democrats really believed this, why didn't they have one of their more relevant Senators float this manipulative trial balloon.

If you think this is a sincere statement and not a political calculation, then I guess it worked on some people.

Originally posted by Brooks

If you think this is a sincere statement ....

I make no judgement as to its "sincerity".

It is true. That's what matters.

Freethinker,

I would've liked to think that even the most rabid of the Leftists on these boards would've had enough perspective to look at these DICK Durbin said and no it for the absolute crap it really was. To compare Gitmo with the Soviet Gulags or what the Gestapo did is simply incomprehensible. I simply cannot believe the arrogant stupidity of the Left. The people we are dealing with in Gitmo would do all they can do disrupt and destroy our lives here in the U.S. and in Western Europe and all these idiots on the Democratic side can think of is Getting Bush. Partisanship and petty sniping by the Left, I can live with, but not when it comes to national security.

Originally posted by Brooks
If the Democrats really believed this, why didn't they have one of their more relevant Senators float this manipulative trial balloon.

If you think this is a sincere statement and not a political calculation, then I guess it worked on some people.

More relevant Senators? He's the assistant minority leader. That's a pretty important position.

a statement like that doesn't need to be "true" for FT to call it true.... it only needs to back his agenda... and then it becomes AUTOMATIC truth.... no question about it...

I love it how FT has the arrogance to think that he is 100 percent right and simply CANNOT be wrong.... when he has no idea of what goes on in the whitehouse, pentagon, etc.....

You are free to think what you want FT, that is your right... but don't call it "truth" just because you agree with it..... call it what it is... your opinion......

nuff said

Originally posted by Idioteque
More relevant Senators? He's the assistant minority leader. That's a pretty important position.
And below that statement you post a picture of Harry Reid.

Why won't Hilary stick her neck out on this one? The Dems headed for the tall grass after his blather. Are they neutral on this, or is it his job to put it out there, see the reaction, and then the others will be guided by what happens?

Just keep goose stepping to the GOP tune guys. All together now…..deny, 1-2-3 deny, 1-2-3 deny, 1-2-3 deny. You have it down very well. No go out and deny like a good little goose stepper should.

Echo, what the heck are you talking about? No one's denying anything. He made a comparison to the Nazis with which I'm disagreeing.

Disagreeing with an opinion constitutes a denial now?

Torture is torture. You can deny all you want that what is happening in Gizmo is different than torture by the Nazi's or Pol Pot, but it doesn't make it so.

Originally posted by Freethinker
Senator Durbin has restored a tiny bit of my faith in the humanity of people in this government, and I applaud him and respect him and his remarks more than words can say.
Lol. You would like Dick...

He's "my" senator, and boy, has he done a fantastic job financially sodomizing Illinois. Stands to reason you'd love him.

He's "my" senator, and boy, has he done a fantastic job financially sodomizing Illinois. Stands to reason you'd love him.
If he could get in your pants, he's probably not all that bad of a guy. :D

Originally posted by Echo2
Torture is torture. You can deny all you want that what is happening in Gizmo is different than torture by the Nazi's or Pol Pot, but it doesn't make it so.
You show me ONE oven or a gas chamber in Guantanamo, retard. On a side note, where are the labor camps???

Show me the doctors assigned to perform "stress" tests on prisoners. As for the bogus comparison, Durbin's a straight up asshole. Here are some depictions taken from the Pol Pot torture museum:

http://www.corkscrew-balloon.com/03/01/2xxx/img/08d.jpg

http://www.downtheroad.org/Asia/Photo/2Cambodia_Pictures/THUMBS/a10killing_field/DS0026_small.JPG
Photo of excavation pits at the Killing Fields.

http://www.corkscrew-balloon.com/03/01/2xxx/img/08e.jpg

http://www.downtheroad.org/Asia/Photo/2Cambodia_Pictures/THUMBS/a10killing_field/DShhC00025_small.JPG
Yes, you read that correctly - babies/children were killed by bashing their heads against a tree.

http://www.downtheroad.org/Asia/Photo/2Cambodia_Pictures/THUMBS/a10killing_field/DSC00096_small.JPG
Painting showing how babies were killed while the mother is dragged away helplessly...


Had enough yet???

Still see the similarities?

Originally posted by Blibblob
If he could get in your pants, he's probably not all that bad of a guy. :D
You're a real funny guy there, Blib. :)

I never post things this long, but I think this is important.

***************

Originally posted by Echo2
Torture is torture. You can deny all you want that what is happening in Gizmo is different than torture by the Nazi's or Pol Pot, but it doesn't make it so.
You spout your crappy cliches and don't know what on earth you're talking about. Read the following and tell me "torture is torture". Shame on you.

GITMO TORTURE (from an extremely left wing website):
....making uncooperative prisoners strip to their underwear, hem sit in a chair while shackled hand and foot to a bolt in the floor, .. forcing them to endure strobe lights and screamingly loud rock and rap music, while the air-conditioning was turned up to maximum levels...an inmate was awakened, subjected to an interrogation in a facility known as the Gold Building, then returned to a different cell. As soon as the guards determined the inmate had fallen into a deep sleep, he was awakened again for interrogation after which he would be returned to yet a different cell....Officials said the guards' patience was often stretched, especially when inmates threw human waste at the military police officers, a frequent occurrence. The guards, for their part, had their own tricks, including replacing the prayer oil in little bottles given to the inmates with a caustic pine-smelling floor cleaner.....
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/101804A.shtml

NAZI TORTURE:
Freezing - The icy vat method proved to be the fastest way to drop the body temperature. They were usually stripped naked and prepared for the experiment. A insulated probe which measured the drop in the body temperature was inserted into the rectum. The probe was held in place by a expandable metal ring which was adjusted to open inside the rectum to hold the probe firmly in place. The victim was then placed in the vat of cold water and started to freeze. It was learned that most victims lost consciousness and died when the body temperature dropped to 25 C.

Two Russian men were seen by a prisoner doctor in the cold vat. They were very strong men and had said a comment to the SS doctor performing the experiment. The prisoner doctor was shocked at how long the Russian men could take the cold without loosing consciousness. He asked the directing doctor to take them out of the tank. He did not allow this and increased the temperature slightly to prolong their pain. They died after a long painful stay in the tank.

The second way to freeze a victim was to strap them to a stretcher and place them outside naked. The extreme winters of Auschwitz made a natural place for this experiment.

The resuscitation or warming experiments were just as cruel and painful as the freezing experiments

Sun Lamp - The victims were placed under sun lamps which were so hot they would burn the skin. One young homosexual victim was repeatedly cooled to unconsciousness then revived with lamps until he was pouring sweat. He died one evening after several test sessions.

Internal Irrigation - The frozen victim would have water heated to a near blistering temperature forcefully irrigated into the stomach, bladder, and intestines. All victims appeared to have died from the treatment.

Hot Bath - The victim was placed in warm water and the temperature was slowly increased. This method proved to be the best. Many victims died do to shock if they were warmed up to quickly.

Experiments on Twins - After all the living data was taken the twins would be killed by a single injection of chloroform in the heart. Care was taken to insure the twins died at the same time. The twins were then dissected with the organs being sent to research centers.

The two Hungarian twins young men age 18 were described as "extremely athletic and handsome." They had much body hair and were allowed to keep it for the first few weeks. The twins were showered and returned nude to the examination room. The examination started at the head . All parts of their heads were examined. The head examination took almost days. They were then completely X-rayed . The next part of the examination consisted of tubes being forced through their noses and into their lungs. They were then ventilated with a gas which caused them to cough so severely they had to be restrained. The sputum from the lungs was collected for examination.

After the photographs were finished they were awoken very early in the morning. They were taken into a room with tables and a hot water vat. The water in the vat was very hot. They were made to sit in the water until they were ready to pass out from the heat. They were then strapped to a table where their hair was plucked out trying to save the hair root. They were put back into the hot vat several times. After enough hair was collected, they were totally shaven of every hair on their body. The twins were then again extensively photographed without hair.

The twins then received several two liter enemas which caused them much pain and discomfort. The boys on different days were strapped over a bench table and their rectums were hyper descended after which they received an extensive lower gastric intestinal examination. This extensive procedure was performed without any anesthesia. The young men were crying so loud that Doctor Mengele ordered they be gagged. The next day they received a painful and humiliating urological examination. In this examination tissue samples were taken from the kidneys, prostate, and testicles. Several semen samples were forcefully taken over two days.

After this three weeks of tortuous medical examinations they were taken two the dissection laboratory. Using two doctors, each twin was simultaneously given an injection in the heart, taking their lives. They were dissected and their organs were sent to the Institute of Biological Racial and Evolutionary Research Berlin.
http://www.remember.org/educate/medexp.html

The latest torture reports (leaks?) are adding much more detail than we had previously known. It's apparently way beyond just building human pyramids, dragging people around on leashes and having some female guard pose for photo-ops with the the thumbs-up sign.

Looks like they are truly one goose-step away from acting out their NAZI fantasies ... the ovens.

To try and make american torture out to be better than Nazi torure or any other torture is insanity. Torture is torture.

That's like saying my kind of pedophilia is better than yours because I don't gag my victim while I rape him.

Disgusting.

Echo, you read my post?

Dop, you try and come off as some military historian, and you think what's going on in Guantanamo is that close to what the Nazis did?

I don't have to be a military historian to know the definition of Nazism and the goings-on in Hitlers Germany. All I had to do was stay awake and pay attention during high school world history.

Now, read my post again and notice I say The latest torture reports (leaks?) -- which means, there are more reports coming out that we have not seen/heard/read yet and they are reportedly much worse than anything we've so far heard.

Echo and Dop, since you didn't have time to read the whole thing, here are some highlights of what you both claim is similar to what you've heard about Guantanamo.
The victim was then placed in the vat of cold water and started to freeze..

.. strap them to a stretcher and place them outside naked.
The extreme winters of Auschwitz made a natural place for this experiment...
...The victims
were placed under sun lamps which were so hot they would burn the skin. ..

..water heated to a near blistering temperature forcefully irrigated into the stomach, bladder, and intestines. ....

.... tubes being forced through their noses and into their lungs. They were then ventilated with a gas which caused them to cough so severely they had to be restrained. The sputum from the lungs was collected for examination..

....They were put back into the hot vat several times...

.. .The twins then received several two liter enemas....

.....their rectums were hyper descended....

....procedure was performed without any anesthesia.
.
http://www.remember.org/educate/medexp.html [/B]

Brooks

Do you think Gitmo hasn't used these same tactics and even worse?

No.

Do you?

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Now, read my post again and notice I say The latest torture reports (leaks?) -- which means, there are more reports coming out that we have not seen/heard/read yet and they are reportedly much worse than anything we've so far heard.
Even though we haven't "seen/heard/read" any new reports, you have, and you know they're on par with someone's stomach, bladder, and intestines being forcefully irrigated with boiling water? Whatever, Nostradopus...

I won’t hold my breath waiting.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Even though we haven't "seen/heard/read" any new reports, you have, and you know they're on par with someone's stomach, bladder, and intestines being forcefully irrigated with boiling water? Whatever, Nostradopus...

I won’t hold my breath waiting.

I never said I saw them prae and you know it ... if you're gonna keep puting words in my mouth -- don't bother responding to my posts ...

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
I never said I saw them prae and you know it ... if you're gonna keep puting words in my mouth -- don't bother responding to my posts ...
But you know they exist, and on top of it - you know they're "far worse" than anything we've seen yet, right? If all you know is that new reports have been released, then why do automatically you assume they're worse? Is it just because they bear the title "Torture Reports"?

First off, who's conducting the study?

Secondly, where are you getting your information?

And thirdly, why do you have a burning desire to indict our military?

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Freethinker,

I would've liked to think that even the most rabid of the Leftists on these boards would've had enough perspective to look at these DICK Durbin said and no it for the absolute crap it really was. To compare Gitmo with the Soviet Gulags or what the Gestapo did is simply incomprehensible. I simply cannot believe the arrogant stupidity of the Left. The people we are dealing with in Gitmo would do all they can do disrupt and destroy our lives here in the U.S. and in Western Europe and all these idiots on the Democratic side can think of is Getting Bush. Partisanship and petty sniping by the Left, I can live with, but not when it comes to national security. yeah, and if the admin were democrats, you'd be doing the SAME DAMN THING !!! thats what you've been doing all along, defending that jackass bush, and acting like everyone else is the idiot ! STFU !

Originally posted by Decka
a statement like that doesn't need to be "true" for FT to call it true.... it only needs to back his agenda... and then it becomes AUTOMATIC truth.... no question about it...

I love it how FT has the arrogance to think that he is 100 percent right and simply CANNOT be wrong.... when he has no idea of what goes on in the whitehouse, pentagon, etc.....

You are free to think what you want FT, that is your right... but don't call it "truth" just because you agree with it..... call it what it is... your opinion......

nuff said DOESNT THE SAME APPLY TO YOU ? you act as if everything you say is correct. why cant we see our double standards ?

You still don't get it. Torture is torture. It doesn't matter how long the sticks under the fingernails are or how cold the water is or how tight the chains are. It is still torture.

For you to take Americas forms of torture and attempt to somehow insinuate that they are better or more honorable or more acceptable than any other form of torture is ludicrous.


Governments that approve of torture are bad. Torture is a tactic used by dictators.

Bush has played his true hand by authorizing torture.

Originally posted by Echo2
Governments that approve of torture are bad.
Then every government on the face of this planet is bad.

There are a lot of countries that don't torture.

At the end of the bloodiest century in human history, the international community adopted a treaty creating the world's first independent and permanent International Criminal Court. That court is now a reality. The International Criminal Court (ICC) is able to investigate and prosecute those individuals accused of crimes against humanity, genocide, and crimes of war. The ICC complements existing national judicial systems and will step in only if national courts are unwilling or unable to investigate or prosecute such crimes. The ICC will also help defend the rights of those, such as women and children, who have often had little recourse to justice.

The Statute outlining the creation of the court was adopted at an international conference in Rome on July 17, 1998. After 5 weeks of intense negotiations, 120 countries voted to adopt the treaty. Only seven countries voted against it (including China, Israel, Iraq, and the United States) and 21 abstained. 139 states signed the treaty by the 31 December 2000 deadline. 66 countries — 6 more than the threshold needed to establish the court — ratified the treaty on 11 April 2002. This meant that the ICC's jurisdiction commenced on July 1, 2002. From February 3 - 7, 2003, the court's Assembly of States Parties — the ICC's governing body — elected the court's first 18 judges. The resulting high quality and diverse judicial bench (the judges include 7 women and represent all the regions of the world) were sworn into office on March 11 in The Hague, the seat of the court. On April 21, 2003, the Assembly of States Parties elected the chief prosecutor, Luis Moreno Ocampo, best known for his role as deputy prosecutor in the trials of Argentina's former military junta in the 1980s. Moreno Ocampo is scheduled to take office in June. The court is now poised to commence business. As of May 3, 2004, 94 countries have ratified it. The tribunal came into force on July 1, 2002.

Only seven countries voted against it (including China, Israel, Iraq, and the United States) Notice the company we keep on this issue. Makes one proud to be an American.

LOL.... we get your point... you hate america.... next topic

Originally posted by Echo2
There are a lot of countries that don't torture.
I understand your point here, but without doubt - your ignorance is encyclopedic, Echo. In two words: astounding naiveté.

Echo, We use sleep deprivation and loud music. The Nazis used freezing to death and rectum stretching without anesthesia.

For you to say "torture is torture" shows you can never admit when you're wrong.

Exactly. Given your druthers Echo, would you rather have your sleep interrupted or your asshole stretched? Being that I don’t know you very well, maybe you're not the right person to be asking that question, but whatever – you get the point.

Just because we're discussing "torture" while recognizing it as a universally bad way to extract information doesn't mean that all forms of it are equal.

Looks like the Nelson Report is now on the case ... this will not bode well for the president.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/005841.php

Sure thing -- sleep deprivation ... LMAO -- did you get that one directly from Rush? What happened to it's only a few bad apples and the oldie but goldie ... no worse than frat pranks?


Oh yeah, that's right -- those so called frat boys are doing 5-10 years in prison.

We are wasteing our time Lop. These wingnuts think torture is just fine and have no problem with the US doing it. Since we are not doing scientific experiments on them we are more honerable and better than the germans or japaneese during WW2. We are better than the guys who cut off heads because we just beat our prisoners to death.

Where do you guys draw the line with what torture is OK and what isn't? beatings, whippings, cutting, burning, electrocuting?

Just where does good torture stop and bad torture start?

It makes me sick to my stomeck to think that adult Americans aprove of these actions. Do you guys torture kittens and puppies in your spare time for fun? Is that why it does't bother you to torture another human being?

FYI - Information gained through torture is notoriously incorrect. That has been proven. The GOP aren't torturing these people for info, more for fun and entertainment.

It's called being shameless Echo.

Well then call me shameless because I have a problem with torture but then, weeeeeeeeeeeeell if my family were in danger and I had one of the kidnappers in front of me I would pull their insides out one piece at a time until they told me what I needed to have them returned safely. It all becomes kind of "relative" to who you value you most.

Call me cold hearted but when it comes to a terrorist or a fellow countryman... well guess who I pick?

yea.... how dare we treat these murdering, Pro-destructive terrorists poorly.....

I dont condone supreme and ultimate torture... but i also don't condone giving them ABSOLUTELY no tough times..... hell, if we treat them too good, people will start attacking the States just to get put into this great, hospitible "Prisoner of War" resorts.....

We don't have gas chambers, we don't line up prisoners and gun them down.... There is nothing of the sort that is military procedure.....

You poor delushioned souls. Oh well, it's your karma.

But you still haven't answered my two questions.

Where do you guys draw the line with what torture is OK and what isn't? beatings, whippings, cutting, burning, electrocuting? or does it depend on the persons race or religion?

Just where does good torture stop and bad torture start?

I want to understand what sort of line you guys draw. You've pretty much stated that medical experiments are out. What if a detainee is 14 years old? Would that effect your desicion? What if they were female? Would that effect your decision? Is electrocution OK because it doesn't leave a mark? What about burning? Is sexual torture OK with you guys?

Well, gee, let's see here,


First to Korg. Who has accused me of siding with Bush's policies in Iraq merely because Bush is Republican. If it had been Bill Clinton who had gone into Iraq, I'd be rabidly anti-war or some such foolishness. Sorry to disapoint you, korg, but my core beliefs do NOT hinge on whether or not a certain stripe of politician is in the Whitehouse or the Congress or whatever. The Middle East needs an alternative to Islamic Theocracy and tyranical dictatorship and I'd support anyone who held to that belief. I can live with a Bill Clinton in the Whitehouse much more than I can live with the Osama Bin Ladens of the world securing countries for their jihad against the West. I don't support or oppose wars based on what's "hip" (to paraprhase Jeneane Garafolo.)

About this torture bilge that is being foisted on these boards. I did note, in another post, that during the second world war, American soldiers who captured german soldiers that were out of uniform were executed. The Geneva Convention protects uniformed combatants, no protection is given to spies or to terrorists. The people held at Gitmo were terrorists who dressed as civilians and have done their best to try and kill as many U.S. personel as possible while posing as a civilian. They are not protected by the Geneva Convention nor are they protected by the Constitutional guarantees given to U.S. citizens. THEY DON'T HAVE ANY RIGHTS, PERIOD! Do I advocate Nazi style torture on these people? No, I won't stoop that low, and as Echo pointed out, such torture is wildly ineffective as far as gathering information is concerned. But the other methods of "torture;" sleep deprivation, exposure to loud obnoxious music and humiliation in the quest to gather info I'm for. I do NOT stand for coddling those who would do their best to kill us. In dealing with enemies, there is a time to be hard and as far as those at Gitmo are concerned, that time is now.

Pretty good post Darth -- at least you stay on topic and don't wander all over the place with craziness like telling the liberals they're unpatriotic, not supporting the troops and get the F outta the country if you don't like it ... LOL -- and the best part is you didn't tell me I'm too obtuse ... sorry prae ... couldn't resist ... :D

Having stated your position on torture (and you're entitled to that opinion) let's look at June 30th. That's the day the videos and pics are supposed to be released showing our troops and civilian interrogators sodomizing the detainees, some of which are underage boys and girls ... IOW rape and pedophelia.

Considering we just spent months trying to hang Jacko on just a few instances of these same charges ... if these videos surface and show it to be true ...

are you still OK with the torture when it has gotten to that point? -- are you OK with the fact it is being done in your name?

Of course you can hope, pray and wish the videos are tied up in legal battles and not released which could very well happen. At least any good conservative should be praying that is what happens.

Dop,

When it comes to sodomizing boys and girls at gitmo, I'll believe when I see it and even agree with you that it's wrong to do so. As far as torture goes, ala Stalinist Soviet or Spanich Inquisition style, as echo did point out, it's a wildly inaccurate way of gathering info, people will say anything to stop the pain. So I'm not much in support of those kind of methods. There are other, more psycholocal means of extracting intelligence. Read "Mind Hunter" as it may point the way the miliary can use profiling to target a person's weaknesses and gettting them to confess.

Fair enough Darth -- let's wait and see what comes of all this stuff [sic]

i think what durbin said was right on!
screw the righties all they worriy about is when the truth is gong to come out
i think durbin exposed the country to have faults nothing wrong with that '
we can't fix em if we don't know what they are!

I don't understand why everybody is getting worked up over Sen. Durbin's statements. God forbid he should expect more of the USA.

I saw a quote somewhere that characterizes the situation. The issue isn't whether or not we are the same as the Nazis, the issue is that we aren't different enough.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Freethinker, I would've liked to think that even the most rabid of the Leftists on these boards would've had enough perspective to look at these DICK Durbin said and no it for the absolute crap it really was.

You do nothing except alledge that it is "crap".

You have not made one salient point or produced any vidence that what Durbin said is untrue.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
To compare Gitmo with the Soviet Gulags or what the Gestapo did is simply incomprehensible.

No, to listen to your fucking horseshit SPIN on what Durbin said is what comprises incomprehensibility.

Durbin in NO way suggested that Gitmo was the equivalent of what the Gestapo did.

Durbin in NO way suggested that Gitmo was the equivalent of what the Nazis did.

Durbin in NO way suggested that Gitmo was the equivalent of what Pol Pot did.

Durbin said ---listen carefully here, you rightwing fucktards--- that if a person were to hear of a prisoner being chained to a tile floor for over 24 hours, in the fetal position, while being subjected to extremely high temperatures it would cause the listener to think of the sort of tactics used by the Nazis and Pol Pot and the Soviet gulags.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
I simply cannot believe the arrogant stupidity of the Left.

Well, I very much CAN believe your idiotic and thoroughly dishonest attempt to SPIN Senator Durbin's comments into something he did not say or imply.

Originally posted by Decka
I love it how FT has the arrogance to think that he is 100 percent right and simply CANNOT be wrong.... when he has no idea of what goes on in the whitehouse, pentagon, etc.....

Durbin in NO way suggested that Gitmo was the equivalent of what the Gestapo did.

Durbin in NO way suggested that Gitmo was the equivalent of what the Nazis did.

Durbin in NO way suggested that Gitmo was the equivalent of what Pol Pot did.

Durbin said ---listen carefully here--- that if a person were to hear of a prisoner being chained to a tile floor for over 24 hours, in the fetal position, while being subjected to extremely high temperatures it would cause the listener to think of the sort of tactics used by the Nazis and Pol Pot and the Soviet gulags.

Originally posted by Brooks
The Dems headed for the tall grass after his blather. Are they neutral on this, or is it his job to put it out there, see the reaction, and then the others will be guided by what happens?

Durbin in NO way suggested that Gitmo was the equivalent of what the Gestapo did.

Durbin in NO way suggested that Gitmo was the equivalent of what the Nazis did.

Durbin in NO way suggested that Gitmo was the equivalent of what Pol Pot did.

Durbin said ---listen carefully here--- that if a person were to hear of a prisoner being chained to a tile floor for over 24 hours, in the fetal position, while being subjected to extremely high temperatures it would cause the listener to think of the sort of tactics used by the Nazis and Pol Pot and the Soviet gulags.

Originally posted by Decka
yea.... how dare we treat these murdering, Pro-destructive terrorists poorly........

You're missing the point entirely.

The point is --- " How dare the U.S.A. treat these terrorists in the way that Senator Durbin (quite correctly and matter-of-factly described, yet still try to maintain the incredibly hypocritical stance that the U.S. is a led by a "moral" and humane government...............?!?!?!?

THAT is the pertinent goddamned QUESTION, you piece of human offal.

I love it... FT doesn't beleive a DAMN word from the media UNLESS it suites his liking..... oh its a FACT according to FT.... hold all the phones! no need to check this one out....

First off..... IF(and thats a big "if") what he said actually happened.... i would say the person who administered that type of torture be charged for the crimes he committed.....

I don't get what your point of the post was, yea we have a few bad apples in the military... and your point? That is not military procedure... so while you continue your conquest to try to connect ANY military wrong-doings by some out-of-line soldier to the whole entire military and to the most recent Republican administration...... I will be sitting over here in reality....

Oh.... and these lines are classic

listen carefully here, you rightwing fucktards

you piece of human offal

to listen to your fucking horseshit

Someone is all pissed off.....What's your beef dickface??? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Freethinker
Durbin in NO way suggested that Gitmo was the equivalent of what the Gestapo did.

Durbin in NO way suggested that Gitmo was the equivalent of what the Nazis did.

Durbin in NO way suggested that Gitmo was the equivalent of what Pol Pot did.

Durbin said ---listen carefully here--- that if a person were to hear of a prisoner being chained to a tile floor for over 24 hours, in the fetal position, while being subjected to extremely high temperatures it would cause the listener to think of the sort of tactics used by the Nazis and Pol Pot and the Soviet gulags.
And his statement was patently false, period. Don't think for one second that his intention WASN'T to compare the two as being equally savage.

On a related note, how dare us "rightwing fucktards" see his comment for what it is. You know, FT, for as eloquent as you are, taking something of value out of these statements is like trying to squeeze orange juice out of an apple.

Originally posted by Freethinker
Durbin in NO way suggested that Gitmo was the equivalent of what the Gestapo did.

Durbin in NO way suggested that Gitmo was the equivalent of what the Nazis did.

Durbin in NO way suggested that Gitmo was the equivalent of what Pol Pot did.

Durbin said ---listen carefully here--- that if a person were to hear of a prisoner being chained to a tile floor for over 24 hours, in the fetal position, while being subjected to extremely high temperatures it would cause the listener to think of the sort of tactics used by the Nazis and Pol Pot and the Soviet gulags.

If a person were to read one of your posts it would cause the listener to think of the sort of writings posted by an un-American loser who probably has no friends, is probably angry at his whole family, who everyone at work walks away from and is too insecure to start an argument in person. The sort of person who insults if he has no point to counter with and believes in free-love because it's his only chance at orgasm with another person in the room.

I in NO way suggested that you are un-Anerican
I in NO way suggested that you have no friends.
I in NO way suggested that you are angry at your family.
I in NO way suggested that people at work hate you.
I in NO way suggested that you only argue on-line.
I in NO way suggested that you can't get a girl.

Hey, this is easy. I love the Durbin-rules.

Durbin has it right and he's a fool for backing-off.

Watch what happens now -- the right will attack him like he's never before imagined, until they finally bring him down or ruin his career or catch him flying in a small plane ... just ask Dan Rather how it works.

Originally posted by ~Sal~
if my family were in danger and I had one of the kidnappers in front of me I would pull their insides out one piece at a time until they told me what I needed to have them returned safely. It all becomes kind of "relative" to who you value you most.


Sal, this is a point I made a few weeks back. Now, according to Echo and Guerilla, I am for torture. My signature line was written for such lame tactics.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
... just ask Dan Rather how it works.
Huh?

Originally posted by Brooks
Sal, this is a point I made a few weeks back. Now, according to Echo and Guerilla, I am for torture. My signature line was written for such lame tactics.

Because in some cases people take everythings to the extreme and see things only in black and white... There has to be a balance.

Do I want someone humiliated and tortured because certain service people might be entertained. Not at all. BUT if certain torture techniques can gain evidence which will save lives then sorry, maybe terrorism is not the career you should have chosen.

As for the implications due to comparisons to Nazism and Russian gulags that is more over the top emotional shit that does nothing to get mainstream people on board to prevent bad prisoner treatment. It's more of the same crap. It makes people sit up and take notice for a moment but it also hardens people that may have otherwise been supportive had it been presented in a rational way.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Having stated your position on torture (and you're entitled to that opinion) let's look at June 30th. That's the day the videos and pics are supposed to be released showing our troops and civilian interrogators sodomizing the detainees, some of which are underage boys and girls ... IOW rape and pedophelia.


Dop, if these things are true, the individuals should get what's coming to them, but this is the first I've heard about this, so obviously this isn't the type of behavior we're discussing here.

Where did you hear about this?

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Durbin has it right and he's a fool for backing-off.

Watch what happens now -- the right will attack him like he's never before imagined, until they finally bring him down or ruin his career or catch him flying in a small plane ... just ask Dan Rather how it works.
WTF are you talking about, Dop?

Originally posted by ~Sal~
Because in some cases people take everythings to the extreme and see things only in black and white... There has to be a balance.

Do I want someone humiliated and tortured because certain service people might be entertained. Not at all. BUT if certain torture techniques can gain evidence which will save lives then sorry, maybe terrorism is not the career you should have chosen.


The problem is the word "torture" is used for political effect.

Originally posted by Brooks
Where did you hear about this?
A sightings.com link to therabidleftist.org. Sorry Dop, I couldn't resist! :D

Prae, I think the real explanation may be even more bizzare.

Originally posted by Brooks
Dop, if these things are true, the individuals should get what's coming to them, but this is the first I've heard about this, so obviously this isn't the type of behavior we're discussing here.

Where did you hear about this?

The same place the rest of the world heard about it more than a year ago ... do you not remember back during the initial Abu-Ghraib expose, a select group of senators were allowed into the pentagon to privately view some of the video/pics that were not released to the public? Most of them commented that they were so bad that they shouldn't be released.

Well, fast-forward to today -- some of the pics will be released at the end of the month, albeit photo-shopped to protect cuckoobunny and his clown squad and obviously they won't release the ones showing pedophilia and soldomy. But that doesn't make those photos go away -- it only puts off the inevitable -- the disgracing of america.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/06/19/MNG0NDB1GU1.DTL&feed=rss.news

I read the link. Photos are being released, but where did you hear about the rape and pedophilia?

We'll see...

Originally posted by Brooks
I read the link. Photos are being released, but where did you hear about the rape and pedophilia?

Over a year ago -- I'll try to dig out a link but it was the reason the senators did not want to release these pics to the public ... it's the reason it's taken over a year to get them released.

And there were/are reportedly eye-witnesses.

Greg Palast has said be ready for the child rape photos. That story has been floating around since the first batch of photos was realeased.

But I guess its kind of hard to notice such things when you have your fingers firmly jammed in your ears with your blinders on.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
But I guess its kind of hard to notice such things when you have your fingers firmly jammed in your ears with your blinders on.
Or the fact that they haven't been released yet.

Originally posted by Brooks
Or the fact that they haven't been released yet.
:)

Good ol government censorship.

Yeah the photos might make Iraqis mad at the US occupiers...
:@@:

Originally posted by Brooks
If the Democrats really believed this, why didn't they have one of their more relevant Senators float this manipulative trial balloon.

If you think this is a sincere statement and not a political calculation, then I guess it worked on some people.
As I said in my first post on this topic, Durbin was put out there with a trial balloon. If it worked, hooray. If it didn't, losing your dignity is one of the sacrifices you make to be Minority Whip.

Dolts will say he sold out with his apology. In reality, he sold out making the statement in the first place.