i havent been here in awhile as a lot of yall prolly know, been doing more kiddie stuf like going to www.cpixel.com, etc etc, but i find it very funny how Bush picked, iguess you can call it "the lesser of two evils" in invading Iraq and letting N.Korea develop into what it is today, namely a real threat. He invades a country with no WMD but leaves a country that is a lot more dangerous to build and just about test its stuff out. Is it just me or did somebody drop the ball? Did they do a coint toss, heads for Iraq, tails for N.Korea?

Everbody knows it almost always lands on heads....

This may have aleady been posted. But for this week im on dial-up and im not going back into the thread archives...lol.

its more like , heads iraq, tails..........iraq. no he didnt drop the ball, he's got all the oil he wants now

There are a variety of reasons that there is no good military option in North Korea. The first reason is the presence of China on the border with Korea. A military invasion of North Korea could provoke China into entering the war.
A second reason is the Conventional North Korean military. They have a great deal of artillery dug into the mountains opposite the South Korean capitol, Seoul. They have the capability of delivering 500,000 artillery rounds/ hour to Seoul, a city of millions of individuals. Some of those rounds would undoubtedly carry chemical weapons. The only practical way to neutralize that artillery quickly is the use of tactical nuclear weapons. See reason 1 for the consequences of doing that.
The third reason is that our allies in the area, South korea and Japan do not want us to launch that war. That would complicate any such invasion, since we would want the support of the South korean military and the airbases in Japan and South Korea for the war.
The fourth reason is the terrain and climate of Korea. The terrain basically consists of rice paddies and mountains, which is not favorable for the type of mechanized operations we favor. During the winter the rice paddies freeze solid, and our armored vehichles could leave the roads, but the dikes between fields are ideal defensive positions. Also the cold winter temperatures are hard on equipment for a highly mechanized force.
The final reason is the North Korean military itself. They are a well trained, competent force. They have adapted their tactics to the terrain and climate, and are well prepared for a war. The people of North Korea are starving, but the military is not.
In short, Iraq was a far easier target with far fewer potential negative consequences.

Thank you, Imagineer, but unfortunately you're wasting your time. This has been said before on numerous occasions, and it always seems to be lost on certain posters.

North Korea has no oil. We do not need a stronghold in that area as we have troops/bases in South Korea. North Koreans are not Muslim.

Wait a minute. Madelaine Albright said the N. Korean gave us their word they wouldn't develop nukes, and Jimmy Carter won the Nobel Prize for his negotiations with them. The problem has been taken care of.

Not only does N. Korea not have oil, they also don't have brown skin.

Nice to see you posting again JWJ.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Not only does N. Korea not have oil, they also don't have brown skin.


Yeah. Skin color. Let's see.
North vs. South Vietnam
Kuwait vs. Iraq
Israel vs. Palestinian Authority
China vs. Taiwan.

Another good one, Dop.

How many swedes have we killed in wars lately, or norwegians or anglos of any kind ????

Thought so.

US vs North vietnam
US vs Iraq
US vs Aphganastan
US vs Somalia
US vs Korea


a patturn imerges

Originally posted by Echo2
a patturn imerges
Yeah - bad posts in succession. A "patturn imerges" Echo??? I'd say those nuns didn't crack your knuckles nearly enough...

Well gee dop, I'll be the first to admit that the U.S. hasn't gone over and clobbered the swedes, but then again, the swedes haven't done anything that would make them candidates for a good clobbering, unlike Saddam.

Also, imagineer's point was a good one. The second NORTH Korea gets invaded is the second the Chi-Coms get into the war. That would be a very, very bad situation for the U.S. particularly with the anti war crowd running around, and all the nuclear weapons China now has. Then there is the fact that South Korea is trying this "Sunshine Policy" (read appeasement) on the North Korea government in the hopes that the North Korean commies will stop being the horrible bunch of bastards that they really are (ask me if I think the South Koreans have ANY hopes of succeeding, please!)

One of the things I've been saying over and over is that the grandest scheme to do the greatest good will amount to nothing if such schemes fail. The U.S. CANNOT take South Korea militarily at this time, but it can and did do something about Saddam, and the effects seem to be spreading throughout the Middle East.

There may well come a day when the Commies in China could be overthrown, allowing for a democracy to happen there, and if that does happen (I'm not holding my breath on that one) North Korea could be cut off and isolated. If THAT were to happen, then perhaps a more aggressive stance can be used against North Korea, until then, there really isn't much we can do.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
How many swedes have we killed in wars lately, or norwegians or anglos of any kind ????
Are you seriously that simple minded, Dop? Let's assume, for a fleeting moment, you're actually here with us on planet Earth. Why, outside of skin color, wouldn't we war with Anglos? Perhaps it's due to the fact that they're not the ones ethnically cleansing entire populations or training terrorists, but I suppose that thought never occurred to you, did it? You, like some sort of primitive monkey, just attribute it to skin color, and all of the sudden it's kill darkie time. I can't believe people like you actually exist...

Why are you people typing so much? It has no effect unless you handcuff dop and echo's hands behind their backs so they can't shove their fingers back into their ears.
And before you try calling me a hypocrit, I have never advocated actually invading any country for any reason.

Lol. :)

Theres numerous people that claim the lesser Bush had been talking about invading Iraq before he was (s)elected so he could "finish what (his) daddy never could". Hes nothing but a suck up failure trying to impress his mom. The Neo-Cons knew this and have advocating invading Iraq for is oil since the first gulf war ended. That is why it was Iraq and not NK. It has nothing to do with weapons and everything to do with bravado and oil.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
How many swedes have we killed in wars lately, or norwegians or anglos of any kind ????

Thought so. We killed craploads of Germans and Italians and came within inches of nuking millions of Russians. None of those people look very brown to me.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Not only does N. Korea not have oil, they also don't have brown skin.

They don't have white skin either. I mean, come on, if we're going to be racist, why would why be OK with Koreans?

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
How many swedes have we killed in wars lately, or norwegians or anglos of any kind ????

I seem to recall pictures of B-52s bombing the crap out of Yugoslavia not that long ago.

I seem to recall pictures of B-52s bombing the crap out of Yugoslavia not that long ago.
They're not white. They're pasty.

Originally posted by Blibblob
I seem to recall pictures of B-52s bombing the crap out of Yugoslavia not that long ago.
They're not white. They're pasty.

LOL...I was going to say "swarthy". :D

all i know is if N.Korea tests their nuke God help us all....

Originally posted by Echo2
North Koreans are not Muslim.


ummm.... united states has no quarrels with muslims.... as far as i see it these terrorists IN NO WAY represent muslims. The terrorists WANT you to think that.... but there's always a big difference between the exciting version and reality.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Well gee dop, I'll be the first to admit that the U.S. hasn't gone over and clobbered the swedes, but then again, the swedes haven't done anything that would make them candidates for a good clobbering, unlike Saddam.


The last I heard, Saddam and the sovereign country of Iraq was totally vindicated of any and all culpability with regards to the terrorist attacks on american soil. Nor has it been substantiated that Saddam was in possession of WMD's.

For the country of Afghanistan, simply ditto the above statement.

On the other hand, the country of Saudi Arabia produced 15 of the 19 hijackers of 9/11 and they get a free pass ... not a single question asked by anyone period. Of course, that's what one could expect when Bush's best friend is the man-date, butt-buddy prince who holds hands with bush as they stroll through the garden of eden.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
The last I heard, Saddam and the sovereign country of Iraq was totally vindicated of any and all culpability with regards to the terrorist attacks on american soil. Nor has it been substantiated that Saddam was in possession of WMD's.

For the country of Afghanistan, simply ditto the above statement.
Afghanistan wasn't culpable for terrorist attacks on American soil? Which country do you believe served as al Qaeda's base of operations? Or harbored OBL and other al Qaeda leaders and refused to hand them over before and after 9/11?

Originally posted by Jester
Afghanistan wasn't culpable for terrorist attacks on American soil? Which country do you believe served as al Qaeda's base of operations? Or harbored OBL and other al Qaeda leaders and refused to hand them over before and after 9/11?

I suppose you can back up all those assertions jester.

You know for a fact OBL was in afghanistan -
you know for a fact OBL even exists -
you know al-quida exists --
You know for a fact OBL engineered the terror attacks ... but, but, but ... I thought Saddam was the mastermind ... now I'm really confused.

No one I know or ever heard of, has ever seen an al-quida or could identify one on sight -- other than the right wing talk shows and hate radio personalities that are selling us this al-quida stuff.

I suppose you've personally met one -- what do they look like?

If it's as simple as OBL is in a-stan then why haven't we captured him?

So please present your evidence of the existence of al-quida and OBL and no fair using the cia-preparred videos of OBL look-alikes made in some dark cave in carlsbad nor the passport found in pristine condition at the base of the world trade center that survived an explosion so horrific that the black boxes still aren't accounted for and the human beings aboard those planes were totally vaporized.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing

So please present your evidence of the existence of al-quida and OBL

Are you saying that OBL and Al-Queada don't exist, or are you demanding proof just so you can avoid discussing the issue for a while? If so, I demand proof that you exist.

Well geeze Lionel, feel free to jump right in and help Jester answer my questions.

FOX reports -- minds distort

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
I suppose you can back up all those assertions jester.

You know for a fact OBL was in afghanistan -
you know for a fact OBL even exists -
you know al-quida exists --
It's pretty much the same way I know that Saddam Hussein, Michael Jackson, or the KKK exist - numerous reports, statements, articles, books, photos, and videos that I've read, seen, and heard about bin Laden since 1998. While some of them were from the US government, most of them came from journalists from various countries (some of whom interviewed bin Laden himself), foreign governments (including the Taliban), and people who knew OBL personally. If you'd like to see them for yourself, they're available all over the web, in bookstores, and probably in the archives of various newspapers and media outlets, if they still have them.

You know for a fact OBL engineered the terror attacks ... Am I 100% certain of that? No. Anything is possible. But due to what I wrote above, I am inclined to think that the most probable scenario is that bin Laden was responsible.

but, but, but ... I thought Saddam was the mastermind ... now I'm really confused. I never said that. I don't buy that BS any more than you do.


No one I know or ever heard of, has ever seen an al-quida or could identify one on sight -- other than the right wing talk shows and hate radio personalities that are selling us this al-quida stuff.

I suppose you've personally met one -- what do they look like?
They have purple noses, pointy ears, and webbed feet. :rolleyes:

If it's as simple as OBL is in a-stan then why haven't we captured him? For one, there's a good chance that he's not even in Afghanistan anymore. He could have easily crossed over the border to Pakistan where US troops aren't allowed. Sure, the Pakistanis are looking for him too, but maybe it's just not that easy. Hell, he might be dead for all we know. But just because we haven't found him yet doesn't mean he's not there or that we won't find him in the future. And it certainly doesn't mean that he doesn't exist.

Logical and well put, Jester...

The more countries that posess nukes, the greater the chance they're going to be used. A nuke probably should be exploded somewhere every few years, featuring plenty of publicity, tons of media coverage, and a very clear demonstration - hollyweird style - of just how destructive the explosion is & somehow deliver the message of just what the other effects entail. Even a 'small' nuke is one helluva explosion capable of doing vast damage, not only at ground zero, but far from the blast site as well.

There's one movie available that provides some of the above, and it is a documentary titled: Radio Bikini. It tells the story of the 4th & 5th nukes ever exploded, these in 1946, at the Bikini Atoll in the south Pacific. It is well worth viewing.

The military sent me through a 2 month trainers' school all about biological, chemical and nuclear weapons. That really opened my eyes. Much of the subject matter had to do with identifying the agents used by the effects displayed by those exposed, and attempting to treat those patients as well as protecting yourself. A protective mask for a person with a head injury looks like something a 1950's Twilight Zone alien might wear. None of it was pretty. Biological agents will give you just about any known disease, and who knows what else? Chemical agents - anything from tear gas to nerve gas to blood agents. Another fun group. Other subjects discussed were how to report the type/size of blast witnessed. It's been almost 30 years since I attended that school. The horrid reality of these weapons hasn't really changed. 'Dirty' nukes are a relatively unknown quality, and are much easier to make. ... from the waste of a power plant not using weapons grade stuff, for example.

This planet just doesn't need any more members of the nuclear community.

Originally posted by Brooks
Wait a minute. Madelaine Albright said the N. Korean gave us their word they wouldn't develop nukes, and Jimmy Carter won the Nobel Prize for his negotiations with them. The problem has been taken care of. that was before your boy BUSH , called their name in his book of axis's of evil ! bush made EVERYONE want nukes...lmao

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Well geeze Lionel, feel free to jump right in and help Jester answer my questions.

If you don't think OBL exists, I don't see how I can prove it to you, short of capturing him myself and depositing him on your front door.

Now Bush is accused of forcing north korea to play with nukes? That's complet & utter bullshit. NK has a history of belligerence and antagonistic behavior. "Dear Leader" and his daddy have long wanted nukes, that's not been a secret. NK has long been at the brink of collapse, its' citizens struggle to survive near starvation, they don't trade much, yet the government has the resources to fund a major nuke program? Don't try to pin this one on our sitting POTUS.

Originally posted by es347fan
Now Bush is accused of forcing north korea to play with nukes? That's complet & utter bullshit. NK has a history of belligerence and antagonistic behavior. "Dear Leader" and his daddy have long wanted nukes, that's not been a secret. NK has long been at the brink of collapse, its' citizens struggle to survive near starvation, they don't trade much, yet the government has the resources to fund a major nuke program? Don't try to pin this one on our sitting POTUS. say what the hell you want, bush and his bullshit didnt help matters. did we hear of them creating nukes before that jackass ? nuff said ! like it or not, everyone isnt fooled by bush and his cronies.....like you are !

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing

So please present your evidence of the existence of al-quida and Osama bin Laden .........

I believe he exists, and is very likely a CIA asset.

[i]"Osama bin Laden, the man suspected by Washington to be the mastermind behind Tuesday's devastating attacks on the US World Trade Center and the Pentagon, is arguably the creation of a CIA-led coalition that grew out of the Afghanistan war"______'John Cooley, author and expert on Afghan affairs

http://www.prisonplanet.com/bin_laden_said_arguably_the_creation_of_a_cia_led_ coalition.htm

All you believers never heard of al-quida until the right-wing media made up the term on 9/11. You are the biggest fools on the face of the earth and prove P. T. Barnum was indeed a genius.

FOX reports -- minds distort

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
All you believers never heard of al-quida until the right-wing media made up the term on 9/11. You are the biggest fools on the face of the earth and prove P. T. Barnum was indeed a genius. Speak for yourself, I'd heard of Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda well before 9/11.

I didn't say OBL -- I said al-quida and most people had never heard the term. Suddenly, within hours of the attacks, a pristine passport was found in the twin towers rubble and almost immediately tied to an al-quida member and video tapes of those al-quidas going through the airport are shown worldwide and al-quida rented cars are found in the Boston airport parking lot with all the al-quida planning/training video tapes and literature left on the front seat ... the same people that flawlessly planned, executed and hid the attacks from the cia/fbi/nsa/mossad/mi6-7/kgb/god himself/your neighborhood bartender ...

We know nothing at all about these people for the entire 5 years they planned this attack and suddenly within 24 hours we know them like blood-brothers.

This is friggin hillarious Clancy couldn't write stuff this good ROTFLMAO

Bush Knew -- planes flew
Powell lied -- troops died
FOX reports -- minds distort

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Bush Knew -- planes flew

George W. Bush doesn't exist.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
I didn't say OBL -- I said al-quida and most people had never heard the term. Yes, most people; not all.

Here's an excerpt from a Time article from Dec 21, 1998:

"Until then, the FBI and the CIA considered bin Laden, son of a Saudi construction magnate, to be a "Gucci terrorist" with a fat wallet and a big mouth. His followers were a loosely bound group of former Afghan freedom fighters called al Qaeda, meaning (military) base. But bin Laden was moving into the big leagues. Al Qaeda operatives or sympathizers are accused of attacking American soldiers in Somalia, Yemen and Saudi Arabia."
http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,989866,00.html (You may need to be a subcriber to access it.)

Searching their archives, I found 6 other articles from before 9/11 with the term "al Qaeda" in them. Personally, I remember hearing of the term before 9/11, though I can't recall exactly when or where. But I do remember that hearing it again after 9/11 was a memory refresher rather than an addition to my vocabulary.

So in conclusion, I think it's safe to say that the term "al Qaeda" did, in fact, exist before 9/11.

You're the exception to the rule Jester ... most people never heard the term and certainly never played oogly-moogly with google' search box and the phrase al-quida.

Shit, seems to me half of the country doesn't even speak english -- TIME Mag???

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
You're the exception to the rule Jester ... most people never heard the term and certainly never played oogly-moogly with google' search box and the phrase al-quida.

You know, it's quite possible that you're just wrong and that Jester isn't the exception. I'd certainly heard of Al-Quaeda before 9/11. The USS Cole bombing, the embassy bombings in Africa, the original attack on the WTC, the time Clinton lobbed some cruise missiles at the factories owned by OBL, etc.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
You're the exception to the rule Jester ... most people never heard the term (Al Queda) and certainly never played oogly-moogly with google' search box ........

It is far worse than that.

Not only were most of the Amuuuurican Public unaware of the term "Al Queda" prior to 9/11, a vast number of them did not know and still do NOT KNOW who their own Senators are.

In light of that, it seems a bit of a stretch to suggest that a majority of them knew that there was a group called al Qaeda.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
You're the exception to the rule Jester ... most people never heard the term and certainly never played oogly-moogly with google' search box and the phrase al-quida. Yeah, you might be right about that. But I'm saying is that your claim that the term was made up on 9/11 is incorrect.

Thay would both make excelent parking lots.

Let's put it this way ... it was propogated on 9/11 and very nicely and timely I might add. Overnight we went from a country that was was Al-quida unaware to a country that was Al-Quida Phd.

FOX reports -- minds distort.

Originally posted by Perry75
Thay would both make excelent parking lots.
:)

First of all... we are only assuming that OBL and Al-Qaeda are the culprits in the 9/11 scheme because that's what our gvt wants us to believe. Secondly, I don't ever remember Bush & Co EVER saying that Saddam and Iraq were the cause of 9/11. In fact, my ears heard that Saddam/Iraq had connections to Al-Qaeda (who was either directly or indirectly involved with 9/11 attacks) and were producing WMD. In order for us to avoid another attack like the one we just witnessed (9/11), we had to do something about it.

Don't sit there and tell me, Dop, that based on the gvt statements made shortly after 9/11 that you weren't feeling the rage, fear, vengenance etc. that every other American was feeling. Those were the reasons our gvt gave us to start this war, and we believed it at the time. We now have determined thru various and multiple reports that the WMD intelligence was way off. Ok, now we know we've been duped.

The long and short of my post is that we were armed with the info that the gvt gave us (whether wrong or right at the time) and thus proceeded to war. As far as N. Korea is concerned, I'd be testing my nukes just to piss off the US and say "bring it". I think GWB knows that if he goes to war with N. Korea, it will be a bloody, deadly battle (even worse than Iraq). And, like someone said earlier (Darth perhaps in another thread?), not nearly as "easy" as Iraq (if you wanna call it easy at all) since we already have military position on that side of the globe.

Hmmm, last I checked, Fox wasn't the only news media in this Country.

Originally posted by korg
that was before your boy BUSH , called their name in his book of axis's of evil ! bush made EVERYONE want nukes...lmao

N Korea is probably going to conduct an underground test either this week or next. The Axis of Evil speech was delivered in February of 2002? From "want" to "boom" in 3 years. Damn, those Koreans are quick.

Originally posted by saycricket
Secondly, I don't ever remember Bush & Co EVER saying that Saddam and Iraq were the cause of 9/11.

You're correct in that bush never made the claim but the right wing corporatist media did say it and so did the hate radio crew ... Rush, Ann et al ... That's how bush operates ... he gets others to do the dirty work. Just recently, there was a poll (sorry no link) that showed over 50% of americans still believe TODAY that Saddam and Iraq was behind 9/11.

Don't sit there and tell me, Dop, that based on the gvt statements made shortly after 9/11 that you weren't feeling the rage, fear, vengenance etc. that every other American was feeling.

I can honestly say I wasn't fooled for even an eye-blink. The very instant I saw the news on 9/11 I knew beyond any doubt who had perpetrated the events and it wasn't OBL or Saddam.

Of course, I have the advantage of being old enough to remember the 1st bush & reagan presidencies, that both featured the likes of rumsfeld and cheney. I knew exactly what to expect and I wasn't dissapointed. And I was also hip to Powell ... after all ... I remember Mai Lai like it was yesterday. He certainly wasn't going to fool an old-time vet like me.

As far as N. Korea is concerned, I'd be testing my nukes just to piss off the US and say "bring it".

We're asking N. Korea to disarm ... they're fools if they do. Look how well disarming worked out for Iraq. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble on this nookuulur issue, but since Afghanistan and Iraq, every country with any brains is scrambling to build their arsenals ... it's the only way to ensure bush doesn't attack them next. And I exempt no country from the possibility of being attacked by america ... including canada, france, germany, venezuela, cuba ... any country that crosses bush is a candidate for attack.

Hmmm, last I checked, Fox wasn't the only news media in this Country.

FOX isn't news ... they're propoganda.

its only news when they tell you what you want to hear right dop?

You need to make a better case than that trav. I'm calling FOX the way I see it ... a propaganda wing of the republican party and the corporatist elite. Prove me wrong.

yes, i will get to work right sway proving your opinion wrong dop, right after I refute all of overdoses opinions with my own.

Just wondering Dop, who do you think was responsible for other terrorist attacks that have been blamed on al Qaeda?

are you blind jester? its the government! its all a big set up to justify the war in Iraq so we can get the oil!

Trav -- no hurry ... looks to me like OD has you all tied up ... maybe it's time for the Ali shuffle -- LOL

Jester -- can't publicly comment on that ... I've already been to Gitmo and it's not a nice place.

My sarcasm was stating that although you think Fox is a high propaganda right wing network, there are other sources of information that one can utilize for news. In that vein, you assumedly did so, which is why 9/11 didn't make you bat an eyelash as you knew without a doubt that our gvt was behind the attack.

I can entertain that idea (9/11 conspiracy), and see the coincidences that lead people to come to that conclusion. But you and I both know it will never be made public, whether it's true or not.

And this... Originally posted by Dop
Jester -- can't publicly comment on that ... I've already been to Gitmo and it's not a nice place. You don't honestly believe that you'd be locked up? Wait! Ssshhhh!! Keep your voice down! The gvt has your crib wired and they're just waiting for the precise moment to nab ya.

Honestly, if they haven't come for you yet, chances are you're home free.

Don't sit there and tell me, Dop, that based on the gvt statements made shortly after 9/11 that you weren't feeling the rage, fear, vengenance etc. that every other American was feeling. Those were the reasons our gvt gave us to start this war, and we believed it at the time. Nice of you to characterize all Americans as blood-thirsty thugs whose only reaction is violence.

I think many Americans were afaind grieving anf I for one was curious. Curious why someone would do such a thing. What had the US done that illicited such a reaction?

Unfortunatly the loudest 'mericuns were sreaming vengence at the top of thier lungs. Reminds me of an idiot starting fights at a bar because hes pissed about something that happened at home.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Nice of you to characterize all Americans as blood-thirsty thugs whose only reaction is violence.

ya, dont chacaterize all americans as bloodthirsty thugs! you can only characterize the half of them who voted for bush as such, as is so often done by guerillashamanechodop


Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
I for one was curious. Curious why someone would do such a thing. What had the US done that illicited such a reaction?.

there's a cliche for ya. and they wonder where we get the phrase "blame america first crowd"


Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Unfortunatly the loudest 'mericuns were sreaming vengence at the top of thier lungs. Reminds me of an idiot starting fights at a bar because hes pissed about something that happened at home.

get beat up a lot at bars do you?

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Jester -- can't publicly comment on that ... I've already been to Gitmo and it's not a nice place. So am I going to have to wait until there's a new president to hear your opinion about it?

Jester -- I apologize for not directly answering your question. I know it seems like a cop-out (probably is) but it's best for now.

Given enough posts, all threads take the same path.

When logic and facts don't make some people's point, you get the likes of:
President Bush made N Korea want nukes by calling them names.
President Bush is trying to impress his mother.
Osama bin Laden may not exist.
No one heard of Al Qaeda before 9/11.
bin Laden is a CIA asset.
Last but not least - somewhere in the dark recesses of our government, Dop's posts are being monitored so he can't say what he knows.

Originally posted by Brooks
Last but not least - somewhere in the dark recesses of our government, Dop's posts are being monitored so he can't say what he knows.
No doubt...

LMAO @ Trav - I think Guerilla does get smacked around in bars a lot which is why he has his knickers in a knot here on allforums. He can toss out his proverbial "big guns" and nobody will do him physical harm. :D

Sorry Guerilla, I call it like I see it. And kudos to you if you weren't one of the millions of Americans who were filled with rage, fear, etc. after 9/11. Guess you, Echo, FT, Dop and Shaman are certainly some of the elite. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by saycricket
Guess you, Echo, FT, Dop and Shaman are certainly some of the elite.
That concept is what pisses me off to no end. These people actually believe they're smarter than everyone else, and anyone who takes an opposing view is an ignorant "'mericun". (500 is an unrelenting FT wannabe, I see...)

Originally posted by saycricket
Guess you, Echo, FT, Dop and Shaman are certainly some of the elite. :rolleyes:
*whew* My name was not put in this list. heh, but I bet lots of others on this forum think I should be apart of it.

Originally posted by Overdose
*whew* My name was not put in this list. heh, but I bet lots of others on this forum think I should be apart of it.
You come off snotty sometimes, but you're nowhere near as bad as 500, FT, Dop, and to a lesser degree, Shaman. Put those guys in a room, and you get a tool shed...

Originally posted by Overdose
*whew* My name was not put in this list. heh, but I bet lots of others on this forum think I should be apart of it.

You back up your arguments with facts, and you don't make fun of the other side (unless they deserve it).

Originally posted by LionelHutz
You back up your arguments with facts, and you don't make fun of the other side (unless they deserve it).
:flowers: :flowers:

Here's another good example of how this administration simply makes things up, tells the shit to the people in the form of lies and propoganda using FOX,CNN et al and the american people (not all of us) swallow it right on down.

http://www.rense.com/general65/elec.htm

Ridge practically admits that they made up the 9/11 stuff. WTF more do you need to hear?

Dop, Ridge never mentions politics and "can there be any doubt", "undoubtably" and "Howard Dean was right" are not convincing phrases.

Nice site, Dop. Looks really respected and professional. As for the author, well here you go:

http://www.jostensspeakersbureau.com/chrisbowers/pic.jpg

WTF more do you need to hear?
Nothing from Chris Bowers, thats for sure...

Originally posted by The Praetorian

Nothing from Chris Bowers, thats for sure...

And your exact point would be???

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
And your exact point would be???
Well, to be quite honest with you, Dop - you used his scuttlebutt as irrefutable proof that the administration was, in fact, using the terror alert as an "electoral weapon". While I wouldn't put it past ole sneaky GW - I can't be convincingly swayed by a man who posts information on a site that's linked to "sightings.com", I'm sorry...

Also, he just looks kooky.

There will always be war insolong as there is profit in war.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla, in response to saycricket
Nice of you to characterize all Americans as blood-thirsty thugs whose only reaction is violence.

Not all of them are.

BUT...... there IS a sizeable segment of the populace in this country for whom that statement is true, in spades.

They are invariably the types who have been most fully indoctrinated with the *God-Guns-and-Guts* ideology so prevalent among devout Rightwingers.

They are represented here by callous, conceited asshats who go around making statements like the following ----

"(Iran and N Korea.) Thay (sic) would both make excelent (sic) parking lots".

using the terror alert as an "electoral weapon". While I wouldn't put it past ole sneaky GW

heres the graph proving that they were political tools to garner support. It used to be easier to see the jumps before the added the sources to the same chart.

"Terrorism is the best political weapon for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death." --Adolf Hitler
http://img70.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img70&image=aproval_vs_alert_chart_NEW.gif

There will always be war insolong as there is profit in war unfortunatly yes. Theres a great book called "Addicted to War" outlining how every single US military operation has been about profits for corporations.

On man back in the day talked lots of shit about this after he realized he was risking his life to fatten pockets:

"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National city Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902–1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested." -- Smedley Butler
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

his book - http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html

Heres a link to an interview with a guy who was an "economic hitman for US imperialism" economic warfare, if you please - http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/09/1526251

The sad part is that theres always fresh meat for the grinder to produce dollar bills from. As one generation remembers the lies, horrors and mistreatment of war another one grows up ignorant and full of "liberation" propaganda.

Not all of them are yes but I think it is an important distinction to make. Most the these violent thugs feed off of rabid group think. It needs to be known that they are actually a minority.

there's a cliche for ya. and they wonder where we get the phrase "blame america first crowd" Trav - The "America is the bestest place in the world and the only people who hate us are torrorists and its just cause theyre jealous of our freedumb" crowd.

America and its baking interests were not random targets you fuckwit. You'd do good to think once and a while instead of using your all-powerful knee jerk reaction.

Trav - I think Guerilla does get smacked around in bars a lot which is why he has his knickers in a knot here on allforums. He can toss out his proverbial "big guns" and nobody will do him physical harm.
Saycricket - so everyones a psychologist now. you're fucking pathetic. Thinking there must be something wrong with me because of my opinions or something. I hate bars. They are a waste of money. Unlike most people If I wanna drink with a large number of people I drink with my friends and whoever else we find in our travels. We invite others in to share what we have and to converse with them. I dont have to pay to interact with people I don't know, unlike many others. And no I dont get into fights all the time either. Maybe you blacked out for the past year or so I've been posting but I denounce and refuse violence. Self defence is all I preach and thats only if infractions on ones freedom can no longer be ignored. And know I speak my mind no matter what the situation is. Unlike you I don't worry what other people think.