Hello all,

I am new to this site. I just wanted to introduce myself and tell you a little bit about who I am.

This is my Testimony:

I have 3 kids and a wife, so you could say that I am over the hill. When I was very young my father started to attend church. One day, he was out hunting and a man started shooting at him for about a half hour. My dad returned fire but the man was using a .22 caliber which goes much farther than the bird shot that he had in his gun. Even so, my dad shot back to enable himself to get away. The next day my dad accepted Jesus Christ as his Savior. I was about 2 at the time, and my dad took me and my family to church all my life. When I became a teenager we had moved to a new church where I didn't "fit in" with the kids. One thing that I noticed was that alot of small groups of people tend to "shut out" new comers. What ended up happening was that it drove me away from church and I started hanging around with un-believers and maybe people who say they believe in Christ, but didn't live the biblical life. I began drinking when I was around 15, partying, smoking weed, sex with my girl friends, ect. I was not living the way that God wanted me to. When I was young, I could feel God's favor on me, because I tried to stand up for what was right. When I began to live in sin, I felt that favor turn into disapproval. I felt guilty all of the time for what I was doing. I didn't have peace with God. I met a girl when I was around 22 and wanted to marry her. I began to go back to church in an effort to get my life right with God. The problem was that I had already gotten my fiance' in the habit of going to the bars. She didn't want to quit. She began going with her "friends" and began cheating on me. I met a guy at the church who was supposed to be a sunday school teacher and he ended up sleeping with my ex-fiance. (Don't put your faith in man, only in God) I stayed at a house that the people said was possessed by demons (ghosts) I didn't really believe it but I did later. I was sleeping and very strange things would happen. I had Christian music on and every time that it would talk about Jesus Christ and the Cross or the blood, the tape player would shut off. Over and over this happened, something poked me through the mattress several times, the lights wouldn't come on. The guys family was NOT religious but they would tell me stories of things that had happened to them. I believe them. The daughter was literally pulled off her bed by these demons.

On top of losing my fiance', staying in this hell house, all of my friends turned on me all within a couple of weeks. My family was never there for me, they didn't really care. They pretty much abused me by neglecting me. We still don't really see each other anymore much. It was the most stressful time in my life. I stopped going to church and I went back to the bars, this time alone. I made new friends but could not get close to them. My life stunk, I hated my life and one day I came to point where I couldn't take it anymore. There was a shotgun in the next room and I told God that if anything else happened to me that I was going to stick the gun in my mouth and pull the trigger. I could feel God's presence standing over me, looking at me. Thank God nothing else happened to me. Somehow, I knew that things were going to get better now. Things slowly began to get better.

I met my wife. This is where the story begins to get weird, yet all I can say it that I am telling you the 100% truth from my heart.

I began to rent ufo videos out of curiousity. I wanted to study the cases and see what they were all about. I watched one after the other, night after night for about a week. I was laying in bed up stairs in the attick where no one could come up there without making a rucus. My wife was facing the wall and I was sleeping on the outside of the bed. I entered into a "concious sleep" I was aware, yet I was sleeping. It was all black, something grabbed my arms and squeezed them. I recognized this as a demonic attack and resisted, I felt pain in my wrists. When I woke up, my arms were tired as if I had truly been struggling. I woke up and told my wife. The next day, I had bruises on my wrists. The only logical explaination is that it was a spritual injury. I tell you that there is NO WAY in the world that any person did this. I could not have done this to my self.

Anyway, because of what happened, I stopped watching ufo movies and began to seek God again. I started listening to Christian radio where any nut can come on there and preach if they claim to be in the name of Christ. Sometimes, when I lay in bed, I can feel evil spirits when they come into the room. I usually look at them and say "The Lord rebuke you" and they leave. There have been hundreds of times throughout my life that I have been tormented by demons when I slept. They have done things of a sexual nature to me, grabbing me and actually hurting me in the males most sensitive area.

I began to study Systematic Theology by Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer. These are doctorite level theology books. The first book was on angelology, which was very deep and caused alot of "spritual energy" when I would read it. I could feel a spritual struggle that I could not understand, except that I refused to stop reading.

I began to look for a church to raise my family in, my kids were 1 and 2. I wanted to go to a church with more modern music, an upbeat church. I visited a few and had my mind made up which one I liked. I deceided to visit one other church that I had never been to before, a baptist church. It was an old fashioned church, strict, just like I was raised in, totally the opposite of what I wanted. As soon as I met the pastor, we began to argue. It was clear to me that we were completly opposite and that I didn't like him.

I filled out the visitors card and they came over to visit me. The date was September 26, 2001. September 11, 2001 had just happened. My 30th birthday was September 9, 2001.

A guy named Larry came over to visit me. I thought "they can visit me, but I am not going back there ever again"

Larry said "Why don't you come back to our church"

I said "I don't think that this is the church for me, how do I know that this is the church that God wants me to go to"

"Well have you asked Him?" Larry asked

"No"

"Why don't you ask Him, pray and ask Him and I will be going" He said

So I prayed half heartedly to God. "Dear Lord if this is the church that You want me to go to please let me know....in Jesus name amen"

That night, I was laying in bed thinking about weather I was going to go back there or not and I had deceided that I would NOT go back to that church.
At that very moment, I felt God's Holy Spirit move into the room. I could not see Him with my eyes, only in my mind. I somehow knew who He was without Him telling me. He came and hovered over my chest and I felt Him look me in my eyes for a few seconds. "I want you to go back to that church" God said into my mind with a meek, humble and kind way. There was no sound. This was surreal. I said "Ok Lord, if that's what you want me to do then I will do it, If that is what you want me to do then I will go back there." Then I began to weep. I couldn't look at Him, I looked away and told Him that I was sorry for my sins and that I was going to serve Him from now on. He heard me out and then I felt Him move out of the room slowly as He came in. The next morning as I was waking up, I heard a voice "I'm gonna get your kids" it was the devil. A few months later I was fighting spritual warfare which I will not get into now.

I went back to the church and somehow I didn't know that I could sing, but I became the song leader, Jr. high teacher, lot's of things. This church prints of millions of gospel tracts (little booklets that tell people how to get to heaven) I feel a burden in my heart to pass out tracts and tell as many people about Jesus Christ as I can. I didn't do it, God get's all of the credit.

That is the reason that I came here. I came on this message board, not to be pushy, but to proclaim the Gospel, so that whoever will accept Jesus Christ as Savior, would. That is my goal, because that is what God wants me to do and I don't want to see anyone go to hell. Hell is an eternal place of torment and I guarentee that there is not a single person there right now that doesn't wish that they had trusted Christ as Savior of their life so that they didn't have to be there. This is why I urge you to accept Jesus Christ as your Savior. What He did for me, He is willing to do for you also. He will do it for anyone who is willing regardless of your situation or past.


You can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD FOR YOUR SINS? DO YOU ACCEPT WHAT HE DID FOR YOU TO PAY FOR YOUR SINS?

If you are willing to receive Jesus Christ as your Savior please pray this from your heart to God,

"Dear LORD JESUS, I believe that YOU died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I realize that I cannot get to heaven any other way other than to trust YOU as my SAVIOR. I ask you to forgive me for my sins and take me to heaven when I die. I receive YOU as my Lord and SAVIOR. Thank You for Saving me in JESUS name amen"

If you prayed that prayer from your heart to God, and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven when you die.

IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS I WOULD LOVE TO ANSWER THEM FOR YOU.
Thank you,

Scott

Thanks for sharing your (fantastical) story.

I'm not attempting to be ignorant with this comment, but do you think a schitzophrenic could have a potentially similar experience?

You can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.
This is a blatantly untrue statement. You cannot be 100% certain of anything. Your experiences may well be very strong evidence for you, but ponder the fact that such experiences are claimed by people within every major religion. Who amongst them is right & who amongst them is wrong?

I think what we can say is that there is enough general human experience to say that there is more to life than meets the eye, but It's incorrect to say that you know anything in this area 100%

Also - one other point. You mention going to heaven. Everything I have ever heard described by Christians about heaven sounds really like some kind of hell. Way boring, no free will, nothing but mindless eternity. I have never understood why Christians are so hung up about heaven.

Now Drew............. Heaven is streets paved with gold and mansions bigger than you can imagine.

:)

Don't forget the snow capped mountains. Everybody gets a copy of the sound of music (official heaven training video) and a lion cub on the way in.

is the whole purpose of the religion forum to mock and ridicule peoples beliefs?

Travh what responce do you want us to give to this person? Does Stark get ridculed... NO, why is that Travh? What is Stark doing that means no one redicules her and in actual fact congratulates her most of the time.

This loony tunes fruitcake straight out of the mental hospital on his way to la la land where the big man sits is a clear example of the mentally abused creating the illusion of perfection. Just because he happaned to choose a well founded mass appeal religion to do it in, doesnt change this fact.

Look at his upbringing that explains alot.

Hello Frodo. Welcome to the boards.

Your personal anecdote is interesting.

However this is not:
I came on this message board, not to be pushy, but to proclaim the Gospel, so that whoever will accept Jesus Christ as Savior, would.

As you may have noticed, "justify your presence here" is a bit of a prickly issue at the moment. There are atheists who will do nothing but snarl and spit at you, and there are theists who will do nothing but post their beliefs and expect not to be challenged.

This is a religious forum. But it is also a discussion forum, and, often as not, a debate forum.

I would give you my opinion on your story but of course I am not looking to share the god-concept you believe in; and you have made it clear such people are not to challenge you.

Originally posted by Travh20
is the whole purpose of the religion forum to mock and ridicule peoples beliefs?
Sadly there is no violin emoticon.

The fact is there is an underlying base of people who do chat maturely and listen to one another's opinion on this religion fourm. There are those that don't of course, but that doesn't mean this forum is for unchecked prosletysing.

And there's nothing wrong with spicing the forum up with a bit of humour and rib-tickling. People are only doing so because Frodo insists he is 100% correct and has requested only responses from people who want to uncritically learn from his self-announced greater wisdom.

too bad in your delusions. jesus has done nothing for you. he's been DEAD for some time now.

Ivan, you're just the type of disaffected charlatan we at the Church of Bob are looking for. For a minimal subscription fee, Bob will save your soul and make sure you get to the happy place when (or, for a $400 supplement, before) you die. Worship Bob here, now. :D

Originally posted by box19
Ivan, you're just the type of disaffected charlatan we at the Church of Bob are looking for. For a minimal subscription fee, Bob will save your soul and make sure you get to the happy place when (or, for a $400 supplement, before) you die. Worship Bob here, now. :D

and bob can fuck off. i don't buy "faith" or an afterlife. my spirit is not for sale. :p

an ya pester me again i'll........

I bought BOB, you get a free fridge magnet, pen and special badge. IM SAVED!!

Originally posted by Travh20
is the whole purpose of the religion forum to mock and ridicule peoples beliefs?

Trav,

I'm not mocking XFRO, I'm just "messing" with Drew.

Drew and I do NOT share the same belief structure and are usually discussing the fundamentalist viewpoint. Drew attacks and I defend (when I can.... :) ).

If XFRO was offended by my off-handed remark to Drew, I apologize. XFRO's new here and may get the idea that everyone is "gunning" for him, which is not the case.

Wow, thanks for sharing the story xfro.

I just don't hardly know what to say.

I guess your 100% belief is better than the past, fighting the aliens/ghosts/demons or whatever(especially the going to bars,drinking and having fun part).

Since you have put your life story on the open spaces I must comment on one point.

Sounds to me like that if you had just taken responsibility for your own mistakes and cleaned up your own life you could have done just as well.

On knowing the only way to "heaven" you are quoting a book and assuming it is correct. That is all. Most other religions do the same thing. Some or all of the religions are wrong by the mere fact that they differ. I have seen no proof that one is the correct one.

Have a good day and I hope the boogy man lets you sleep tonight. ;)

i agree... alot of people in here just want to rip into people who beleive... but yet they stand for nothing....

i don't see why any of these "non-beleivers" can respect someone who beleives in something... and why is it that when we tell you about God... it suddenly becomes "shoving it down your throat"..... you dont HAVE to listen

i dont see any christian people ripping into ivan because he's an "animist"....

Welcome to allForums Frodo...have you ever read anything about sleep paralysis?

Originally posted by Decka
i dont see any christian people ripping into ivan because he's an "animist"....
Specifically? Not yet. But what about...

"but if you dont accept Christ as your lord and savior, and repent of your sins, you WILL burn in hell for all eternity."

"And no I am not saying that all muslims are going to hell, but if they do not accept Christ as their savior, they will."

"If a person "doesn't believe in god" they have already lived life outside the "boundaries of the commandments" and are accountable to god for this crime against him."

"Many young people these days are being lured into the occult. Harry Potter makes witchcraft look like it's harmless, innocent fun when in reality, witchcraft is dangerous to get into." (Attacking a fucking children's book...)

all of those are his opinions and beliefs Borg.... he's saying what he believes.... and isnt saying somone else is an idiot for believing what they believe.. which is what happens quite frequently on this board.


There is a BIG difference....

Ok Ok people Decka is right... we should stop judging people, because feelings will get hurt and this cant happen.

From now on, everyone is to either completely agree with what the person has said, or is to remain quiet. Thus we will create a utopian society forum where no one can be hurt, everyone is right and things will be perfect.

Truly sorry Decka that we havent pushed for this before. Its time for conformity in the face of diversity.

If they had such a strong defense - being called an idiot would be moot.

Lets face it - those beliefs make you an idiot. It's a fact that is a plain as day.


Sorry if reality is painful.

Originally posted by DrewM
Lets face it - those beliefs make you an idiot. It's a fact that is a plain as day.


I don't think it's that simple Drew. Even if you disagree with Frodo's views about religion, that doesn't make him/her an idiot.

Many very intelligent people have held the same views.

I didn't say that you couldn't disagree with me or post your opinion on this thread. Feel free to. All can say is that I know that my God is God because I have a personal relationship with Him. I know Him and He knows me. He is here.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Ok Ok people Decka is right... we should stop judging people, because feelings will get hurt and this cant happen.

From now on, everyone is to either completely agree with what the person has said, or is to remain quiet. Thus we will create a utopian society forum where no one can be hurt, everyone is right and things will be perfect.

Truly sorry Decka that we havent pushed for this before. Its time for conformity in the face of diversity.

well it seems that THAT is the standard you guys hold to anything that ISNT christian.... but its okay to bash on the christians.

I didn't say that you couldn't disagree with me or post your opinion on this thread.Well I got the impression you did, albeit in the other thread:
Please only ask questions if you truly are willing to be open to the possibility that the bible is the word of God
But glad you have reconsidered. Maybe you are a human being after all.

Decka
you guys hold to anything that ISNT christian.... but its okay to bash on the christians.
This is just plain, utter nonsense. Loki is no christian basher. Neither am I. Nor Vile nor Borg nor Tapeworm nor DrewM nor Dan. What utter bullshit you are all speaking in defence of frodo.

I don't care whether frodo worships Jesus or Satan or no-one. Either way, his posts are shamelessly wishing to impose that belief on others.

Some christians have a biblical need to feel persecuted and are always pleased to be able to claim themselves victims. I can only think that s what is going on here. Stop with the christian persecution fantasies.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
I don't think it's that simple Drew. Even if you disagree with Frodo's views about religion, that doesn't make him/her an idiot.

Many very intelligent people have held the same views.

Intelligence is a different thing altogether. It isn't even an issue of disagreeing with views about religion.

I think it's interesting to read a personal experience, very few have been posted - but why does it have to be so science fiction? I would be more acceptant of an experience more rooted in reality.

Sorry, I cannot accept that experience as valid - it would make a good fiction book, but that is about it.

Why would anybody even entertain the thought of that experience being anything but delusional? If he told you he walked on water last week would you accept it? What's the difference between that and the story given? What is your threshold for giving baloney some slack? The outrageous or the just semi-outrageous?

Originally posted by XFRODOBAGGINSX
I didn't say that you couldn't disagree with me or post your opinion on this thread. Feel free to. All can say is that I know that my God is God because I have a personal relationship with Him. I know Him and He knows me. He is here.

The only way you could "know" this with any certainty, is if you've investigated other possible explanations for your experiences...have you?

Originally posted by DrewM
Intelligence is a different thing altogether. It isn't even an issue of disagreeing with views about religion.

Perhaps, but the presence of intelligence does presume the absence of idiocy.


I think it's interesting to read a personal experience, very few have been posted - but why does it have to be so science fiction? I would be more acceptant of an experience more rooted in reality.

Sorry, I cannot accept that experience as valid - it would make a good fiction book, but that is about it.

I think his experiences are valid, but the conclusions he's come to based on those experiences are not.


Why would anybody even entertain the thought of that experience being anything but delusional?

Because when we experience something out of the ordinary, we don't automatically assume that we're suffering from mental illness. We interpret the experience based on what we already know, and believe. Doing that doesn't make us delusional, it makes us human.


If he told you he walked on water last week would you accept it?

I wouldn't accept that he had walked on water, but I would accept that he believed he had.


What's the difference between that and the story given? What is your threshold for giving baloney some slack? The outrageous or the just semi-outrageous?

The difference is that his experiences have an explanation other than mental illness or divine intervention. I asked him if he'd read anything about "sleep paralysis", a condition that could very well explain the experiences he mentions. Carl Sagan wrote about this subject at length in his book The Demon Haunted World, and there are other books that address this subject.

Here's a short article that discusses this phenomenon.

http://www.dreamsnightmares.com/sleepparalysis.html

From the article:

Sleep paralysis is now being studied as an explanation for terrors in the night, which have been experienced by people across all cultures and for thousands of years. If one is looking for a purely physical and scientific explanation for these terrible nightmares, this one works quite well. For some it will offer relief but for others, doubt.

Sleep paralysis is a condition in which someone, most often lying in a supine (face up) position, about to drop off to sleep, or just upon awaking from sleep realizes that s/he is unable to move, or speak, or cry out. This may last a few seconds or several moments, occasionally longer. People frequently report feeling a 'presence' that is often described as malevolent, threatening, or evil. An intense sense of dread and terror is very common. The presence is likely to be vaguely felt or sensed just out of sight but thought to be watching or monitoring, often with intense interest, sometimes standing by, or sitting on the bed. On some occasions, the presence may attack, strangling and exerting crushing pressure on the chest.

There are a number of historical and urban cultural myths, which can be, somewhat, explained by this experience. The Incubus, which appears in ancient literature, is one such example. In the book Incubus by Kiessling, It was described as half man half beast, attacking in the night. The word night "mare" has been derived from the word incubus. In Greek it was ephialtes, in Latin incubus, in German mar/mare, in Old English maire, Old Norse mara, Old Irish mar/mor, and all mean "one who leaps on, oppresses or crushes."

Vile has raised the issue of sleep paralysis. One of my very first posts to these forums was the following in the mysticism section (it didn't get a very warm response!).

Originally posted by Blob
I have had a 3 or 4 experiences waking up paralysed and being aware of a 'presence' in the room. That presence is vague but can be firelike, alienlike etc. And it seems very profound. Another time when a few of us as students were sleeping around a room I woke up and saw one of them choking to death.

I see these experiences as nothing more than being literally half awake. It has all the hallmarks of sleep: paralysis, confusion and vagueness, intensity of emotion - just with an element of being aware of the bed and room I'm in. It lacks hallmarks of reality: my friend was alive and well afterall, nothing is ever burnt in the 'fire' and so on. I've heard this half-awake thing is quite common. It's never happened again in years - though I sometimes am aware of my paralysis while dreaming and think 'I must be asleep' but can't wake myself.

This experience has been a great lesson in judging people's sightings of ghosts, aliens, claims of astral projection etc. However emphatic or however well I know the claimant I've been there myself; i've had emtionally confusing sleep-experiences which seemed profound but turned out to be meaningless events. As for astral projection (which a of mine friend claims to do regularly) it's clearly a load of nonesense. As if the human mind is not capable of constructing familair environments from a different perspective therefore seeing down into the room. If you're capable of recognising yourself in bed then you're equally capable of picturing yourself in bed.

Life seems odd at times. It don't mean a thing

if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Originally posted by DrewM
if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

On the other hand, it might be a goose.

Frodo,

I commend you for your faith and personal resolve. I would recommend you to develop skin of leather if you wish to try to witness here. It will be something of an uphill climb...but when you are batteling satan, what isn't?

Jere - you would latch onto anything written by a like minded person without question. Why? because you have lost the ability to question anything.

Stark what are your views of this person and his post?

I would be most interested to find out.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
On the other hand, it might be a goose. :D

AND, what's good for the goose, is good for the gander...:D

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Frodo,

I commend you for your faith and personal resolve. I would recommend you to develop skin of leather if you wish to try to witness here. It will be something of an uphill climb...but when you are batteling satan, what isn't?

I have a question for you jere...

If someone does not believe in the Christian way, does that in your opinion automatically involve Satan?

"battling Satan"

What a joke.

Originally posted by DrewM
Jere - you would latch onto anything written by a like minded person without question. Why? because you have lost the ability to question anything.

All I said was that I commend him for his faith. I never said I agree with everything he discussed; I commended him for his faith.

And I'm glad to know that after just 6 posts, you have the ability to declare someone like minded.

Originally posted by ~Sal~
I have a question for you jere...

If someone does not believe in the Christian way, does that in your opinion automatically involve Satan?

I said batteling Satan. Satan does not want the word of God to be spread, and will battle you and try to lead you away from that.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
I said batteling Satan. Satan does not want the word of God to be spread, and will battle you and try to lead you away from that.

I am still confused. Satan doesn't want the word of God to be spread so: he battles who the unbeliever and tries to lead them away or the person trying to do the converting?

Who is he working on?

Both. All of us.

The stronger you believe or want to believe the bigger the bullseye on your back.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Both. All of us.

The stronger you believe or want to believe the bigger the bullseye on your back.

This is comedy right?

Im laughing lol.

Jere why would Satan make more of an effort to go after those who truly truly believe in God. In your logic, Satans recruitment force is primarily aimed straight at the Pope.

In my logic, Satan would simply look at the down and outs, the bums, the Goths and anyone with a hint of corruption. He would seek a crack and wedge it open. Why bother trying to turn the unturnable.

But even then i dont truly believe he would actually bother. So ok the numbers are probably less but Satan has the same luxerys God has as in, if somebody wants to find Satan then they can. All they need do is focus on the Evil and let it free. Once done, Satan will guide them with all the majestic force that God would.

So its a morality choice, God and Satan are merely metaphorical meanings for the crossroads of good and bad. Do i take the right path to Satan, fall into temptation and commit mortal sin or do i take the left path to God, and not step out of my morality.

The thing is that myself as an Atheist am able to make these choices daily by myself. Yeh sometimes its difficult, and sometimes its damn hard not to do something stupid. Like getting shitty with you and resorting to name calling and crap, hell yeh id be the better man if i just debated you on the level Blob and Stark have, but sometimes it just comes out.

I understand that some people just are not strong enough in character to make those choices without having some huge massive universally sized punishment barring them from it, but like I dont understand why any intellegent being has to sign up to this magical mystical land of Heaven and God in order to do it.

When i was a child punishment stopped me from acting out. I knew if i did bad id be punished, just as if i did good id be rewarded. However im thankfully lucky that all things were in moderation and so eventually i didnt need the punishment or reward to be able to act accordingly, I commited to my actions because i wanted to do the right thing.

Inside of myself i feel a total arsehole when i make a twat of myself on here, and so thats my punishment, But Hell? an eternal damnation of punishment.... come on?

Your comment aiming at us for attacking Christians to whoms belief is stronger is not only wrong, it proves you havent taken the time to consider your motivational reasoning. I dont mind continually bringing her up since she is the best case in point. Stark doesnt get attacked because whilst she beleives some crazy stuff, she will always back it up with strong researched reasons as to why.

Why would satan attack a bum? He already has them exactly where he wants them. I don't follow the pope so I don't agree on the pope thing. Satan attacks those who serve God because he wants to stop them from spreading the truth to others. I have seen demons and heard them. They are real. That is another topic for another time. You say that I believe that I am right and everyone else is wrong. I don't say that. I say that God is right and everyone else is wrong. I try to the best of my ability to do things God's way and obey His word. I am not perfect but I do know God's way of salvation. It is recorded in the bible. If you ask me is the bible right and everyone else wrong? Then I will answer Yes, the bible is right and everyone else who disagrees with it is wrong.

On a different note. Lots of other people take the stance that they are right and Christians are wrong. Why is that ok? Anyway, yes I believe that the bible is right and everyone else is wrong. I am bold about it because I know it that strongly. You have a right to believe what you want. I don't have the right to force you to believe my way, or the biblical way. But I do have the right to share the biblical way just as you have the right to share your way. It is all equal. Whatever you accuse me of, you are doing yourself or you wouldn't be on here. You say that I believe that I am right. Of course I do, and so do lots of others on here.

I have seen demons and heard them

This is the part where I seriously question your mental state. They might well be very real for you, but that doesn't make them real.

As to the believing you are right & everybody else is wrong - well there are a few Billion muslims that don't agree with you for starters. I guess they are all going to burn in hell right?

Originally posted by XFRODOBAGGINSX
You say that I believe that I am right and everyone else is wrong. I don't say that. I say that God is right and everyone else is wrong.That makes you sound more arrogant, not less. Not only are you right, and everyone else wrong, but your rightness is divinely sanctioned.

Lots of other people take the stance that they are right and Christians are wrong.
...
Whatever you accuse me of, you are doing yourself or you wouldn't be on here. That's incorrect. I'm an atheist but I could be wrong. Maybe the god inside your head also exists in reality. Maybe the bible is true. Maybe I will scream in excrutiating agony for all eternity. Who knows?

Now let's hear you express comapable doubts but the existance of your god.

You see, Frodo, you can't project your closed-minded attitude on others here. Many posters at allforums.net will be quick to acknowledge they could be wrong.

Indeed, your empty assertions of "I am right" and "I know this 100%" etc are merely mantras of self-assurance. You are here only to convince yourself. Even if you managed to convert someone here that too would be no more than an act of self-affirmation.

If you were more secure in your beliefs you'd have no compulsion to insist you are right, or to witness.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
The stronger you believe or want to believe the bigger the bullseye on your back.

Just out of curiosity Jere, where did you learn this concept?

Originally posted by XFRODOBAGGINSX
Satan attacks those who serve God because he wants to stop them from spreading the truth to others.

Does he attack all those who serve God, or just a select few? If he attacks all those who serve God, why do we not have priests, ministers, preachers, deacons, and vicars filling our mental hospitals and our morgues?


I have seen demons and heard them. They are real. That is another topic for another time.

What do they look like?

Please share your experiences with us, after all you've made some pretty outrageous claims. If you want to convince people you've seen demons, I would think some specifics would be nice.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
Just out of curiosity Jere, where did you learn this concept?

There is a line of passage in Revelation, that speaks of the lukewarm believer.

If you are merely lukewarm, it says, God will spew you from his mouth.

It's common sense then to defer that the devil would be more worried about someone who was closer to God than further away from him.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Im laughing lol.

Jere why would Satan make more of an effort to go after those who truly truly believe in God. In your logic, Satans recruitment force is primarily aimed straight at the Pope.

In my logic, Satan would simply look at the down and outs, the bums, the Goths and anyone with a hint of corruption. He would seek a crack and wedge it open. Why bother trying to turn the unturnable.

But even then i dont truly believe he would actually bother. So ok the numbers are probably less but Satan has the same luxerys God has as in, if somebody wants to find Satan then they can. All they need do is focus on the Evil and let it free. Once done, Satan will guide them with all the majestic force that God would.

So its a morality choice, God and Satan are merely metaphorical meanings for the crossroads of good and bad. Do i take the right path to Satan, fall into temptation and commit mortal sin or do i take the left path to God, and not step out of my morality.

The thing is that myself as an Atheist am able to make these choices daily by myself. Yeh sometimes its difficult, and sometimes its damn hard not to do something stupid. Like getting shitty with you and resorting to name calling and crap, hell yeh id be the better man if i just debated you on the level Blob and Stark have, but sometimes it just comes out.

I understand that some people just are not strong enough in character to make those choices without having some huge massive universally sized punishment barring them from it, but like I dont understand why any intellegent being has to sign up to this magical mystical land of Heaven and God in order to do it.

When i was a child punishment stopped me from acting out. I knew if i did bad id be punished, just as if i did good id be rewarded. However im thankfully lucky that all things were in moderation and so eventually i didnt need the punishment or reward to be able to act accordingly, I commited to my actions because i wanted to do the right thing.

Inside of myself i feel a total arsehole when i make a twat of myself on here, and so thats my punishment, But Hell? an eternal damnation of punishment.... come on?

Your comment aiming at us for attacking Christians to whoms belief is stronger is not only wrong, it proves you havent taken the time to consider your motivational reasoning. I dont mind continually bringing her up since she is the best case in point. Stark doesnt get attacked because whilst she beleives some crazy stuff, she will always back it up with strong researched reasons as to why.

Why would Satan need to focus his time and energy on someone who wasn't for God?

There would not be a wedge to be opened. It already would be.

Take you for instance. The devil may tempt you into staying the way you are...but it wouldnt be nearly as hard for him to do that, than it would to tempt me into NOT believing.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
There is a line of passage in Revelation, that speaks of the lukewarm believer.

If you are merely lukewarm, it says, God will spew you from his mouth.Don't worry about grumpy old god. Jesus accepts lukewarm belief.
Matthew 17:20
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
There is a line of passage in Revelation, that speaks of the lukewarm believer.

If you are merely lukewarm, it says, God will spew you from his mouth.

It's common sense then to defer that the devil would be more worried about someone who was closer to God than further away from him.

The passage you referred to is Revelations 3:
14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Jere, you make some pretty wild inferences from this passage. Since this passage doesn't even mention Satan, I'm curious as to how you think this passage refers to him in any way.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Why would Satan need to focus his time and energy on someone who wasn't for God?

There would not be a wedge to be opened. It already would be.

Take you for instance. The devil may tempt you into staying the way you are...but it wouldnt be nearly as hard for him to do that, than it would to tempt me into NOT believing.
--------------------------------------------------------------

There is usually another possibility to every answer.
Possibly(if Satan existed) those that believe unyieldingly are the closest to being consumed by Satan and he shows up more.

Those with open minds and unwilling to accept any consept 100% are beyond his reach.

As I read this all I hear in my head is that silly song - Tempted by the Fruit of Another...


now back to the heated discussion

One of the things I find most distatefull about christians who proseletize is that they assume we are idiots and too stupid to know where to go if we are interested in finding out about god and jesus and the rest of their beliefs.

This is a christian country, there are churches everywhere, there are christian stores, christian billboards, christian 800-numbers, christian grafeti, christan, books, magazines, newspapers and web sites. We would have to have 1 digit IQ's to NOT know where to go if we were interested. AARRGG!

Where does the devil keep all his information about exactly where everybody is in terms of their position with God? On a heaven supercomputer?

I assume the Devil only focuses on people in Christian countries because those in the muslim world are already in his grip?

Its aboslutely incredible that people really believe this stuff.

It is true testiment to one thing - human ability to be sucked into anything no matter how nuts it is.

So Jere - I guess I am under the influence of Satan eh?

There is no credible basis for anybody to buy into this fantasy

Lets add this up...
* everyone who is not a christian is going to hell. 7/10ths of the worlds population.
* at least 2/3rds of the people who call themselfs christian really don't practice it so they are also going to hell.

Heaven sounds like one of those very exclusive clubs that discriminates against everyone that doesn't "fit" their ideal.

And there are 10,000+ groups who all think they have the 100% answer on getting into heaven. By default of those 10,000+ groups only 1 can be correct & in reality the actual number is probably Zero are correct.

But hey yeah - you guys are right on the money! Where do I sign up?

Look,

I know missionaries, Pastors, and other Christians who have had similar experiences with demonic forces. They don't talk about it for the very reason that many people don't understand it, and will think that they are crazy. The thing is that their personal experiences are all very similar and there is no way at the time that the other person would have known about the others experience. The reason that the devil attacks Christians and not the bums, and ect. is because the demons have them right where they want them. They attack the Christians to slow them down from spreading the Gospel. The only thing keeping the devil from killing Christians and driving them crazy is the Holy Spirit. He fights for us. Maybe I sound crazy, even to some Christians. All I can say is that I tell you the truth. I tell you so that you will believe on the Lord and accept Him as your Savior.
Will you do that?

Originally posted by XFRODOBAGGINSX
I tell you so that you will believe on the Lord and accept Him as your Savior.
Will you do that?
Not without incontrovertible proof.

Originally posted by XFRODOBAGGINSX
The only thing keeping the devil from killing Christians and driving them crazy is the Holy Spirit. He fights for us.

Frodo is God all powerful? All knowing? etc. If he is then surely all this "fighting" he is doing for the "good" or the "light" is rather pointless. if he wanted it to go away a click of the fingers and it would be gone, a click of the fingers and we are all on our hands and knees praying to him.

Of course youll say... but GOD wants us to choose, to which is all fine and dandy but then why would GOD get involved in the fight against evil because if GOD really wanted to stop evil GOD could with the click of a finger, you get me?

Originally posted by XFRODOBAGGINSX
I tell you so that you will believe on the Lord and accept Him as your Savior.
Will you do that?

I blame the parents for this kind of stupidity.

Originally posted by XFRODOBAGGINSX
Look,

I know missionaries, Pastors, and other Christians who have had similar experiences with demonic forces. They don't talk about it for the very reason that many people don't understand it, and will think that they are crazy. The thing is that their personal experiences are all very similar and there is no way at the time that the other person would have known about the others experience. The reason that the devil attacks Christians and not the bums, and ect. is because the demons have them right where they want them. They attack the Christians to slow them down from spreading the Gospel. The only thing keeping the devil from killing Christians and driving them crazy is the Holy Spirit. He fights for us. Maybe I sound crazy, even to some Christians. All I can say is that I tell you the truth. I tell you so that you will believe on the Lord and accept Him as your Savior.
Will you do that?
-----------------------------------------------

Would you explain what life situations come against Christians that do not plague all of mankind.
I have not heard of any special diseases, plagues, economic factors, etc., that are strictly limited to Christians that shows the Devil or his agents (attacking) Christians.

Any person in business has adversity. Religion is a business, therefore subject to the ups and downs.
These adversities do not get blamed on the devil in the business world.
Coke does not sell to everyone therefore there are other brands available. Your religion will not sell to everyone. There are other religions available as well as the option of no religion.
Sure, every car salesman would like to make every sale.It just does not happen. Its not the Devils fault nor demons fault. Sometimes it is the product and sometimes he loses out to a better salesman.
But, if the salesman blames it on the devil there is no reason to improve his product line or salesmanship.
This Devil stuff is a cop out.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell

But, if the salesman blames it on the devil there is no reason to improve his product line or salesmanship.
This Devil stuff is a cop out.

Top stuff with the Metaphors Dan, never heard it put like that but it does make sense.

Originally posted by XFRODOBAGGINSX
Look,

I know missionaries, Pastors, and other Christians who have had similar experiences with demonic forces. They don't talk about it for the very reason that many people don't understand it, and will think that they are crazy. The thing is that their personal experiences are all very similar and there is no way at the time that the other person would have known about the others experience. The reason that the devil attacks Christians and not the bums, and ect. is because the demons have them right where they want them. They attack the Christians to slow them down from spreading the Gospel. The only thing keeping the devil from killing Christians and driving them crazy is the Holy Spirit. He fights for us. Maybe I sound crazy, even to some Christians. All I can say is that I tell you the truth. I tell you so that you will believe on the Lord and accept Him as your Savior.
Will you do that?

I believe that you believe this to be true, but just because you believe it to be true does not make it true.

If the intent is to share this so people will sign up then you are probably not doing a very convincing job. What you speak of is like a scene from a scary movie - it's fantasy.

People see ghosts, UFO's etc - but that doesn't provide proof of anything much. It's a fact that when people want to see evidence of something then they will - even if the actual reason behind such evidence is far less exciting.

What makes it all the more silly is according to the Christian story - God created these demons. What type of game is that?

I can agree that there is almost certainly more to life than meets the eye, but it's something that we cannot specifically know about. I'm ok not having concrete answers - it's ok to not have answers to everything. The solution is not to look for fairies at the end of the garden or demons behind anything you don't like. That is a big cop out.

It's important to take 100% responsibility for your life. These notions of good vs evil are simplistic and are just a ages old way to avoid responsibility and explain the unexplainable.

Originally posted by XFRODOBAGGINSX
Look,Uh oh! "Look!" That sounds like the start of impatience.

What responses were you expecting here Frodo?...

"Hey the bible sounds fun. Tell us more!"

"Hey some guy on the internet has posted demons are real. Get me to the church!"

Perhaps you are inexperienced at witnessing, Frodo. May I suggest you try using rhetoric, charm and a sympathetic ear. Open people's hearts skillfully; don't clumsily bludgeon them with shrieking assertions like a bull in a china shop.

God is going to get rid of all of the evil in the word in the end. Right now, He is using the devil and the evil world to see who will choose to obey Him and who will not. Once God is through testing mankind, He will abolish all evil.

Originally posted by XFRODOBAGGINSX
God is going to get rid of all of the evil in the word in the end. Right now, He is using the devil and the evil world to see who will choose to obey Him and who will not. Once God is through testing mankind, He will abolish all evil.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Xfro, I respect the fact that you are expressing the view of your chosen religious following.

I view myself and others as more than pawns in a testing game between two advasaries.
I believe that a God (being all-powerful) would know ahead of time who would choose to obey him and have no need of games.
Man is so much more and to reduce him/her to such a level would be an insult to the creator by admission of his faulty omnificent abilities.

What is evil in this world that man has not created? Nothing I believe. Without man there would be no evil.
God would have no need of a test for he would know the potentials and weaknesses of his creation.

By the admission of the Christian religion God created everything.
Then to say that he made so many things imperfect(Satan, demons, mankind and anything else not working properly) is probably the worst sin against him that could be possible.

Originally posted by XFRODOBAGGINSX
God is going to get rid of all of the evil in the word in the end. Right now, He is using the devil and the evil world to see who will choose to obey Him and who will not. Once God is through testing mankind, He will abolish all evil. Who are you talking to? Whose point does this address? You're not some wandering forum-bot automaton released onto the net by unscupulous Southern Baptists are you?

Originally posted by XFRODOBAGGINSX
God is going to get rid of all of the evil in the word in the end. Right now, He is using the devil and the evil world to see who will choose to obey Him and who will not. Once God is through testing mankind, He will abolish all evil.

How can you follow that? This is pretty much fantasy island on your part, but anyway.

Once evil is abolished - that means nobody can sin right? Which means nobody has free will - which means everybody is mindless robots. I doubt you have actually thought through what your statements mean.

Any God that would "create the devil & evil" to simply check out who would obey him is not worthy of any worship - in fact I would choose to say 'no thanks' - How could anybody have a single ounce of respect for a God that played those games? You paint God out to be a selfish being.

The notion of Good and Evil is part of man - not God.

I guess Frodo has reduced us all to rats in a cage. What a cruel fate.

Frodo is the dark force. Spreading his evil religion. Do not fall for his trickery. He is a soldier of evil. Use your intellegence, rational thought and logic to see through his lies. His only interest in you is to sway you to the dark side and turn you into another soldier of evil. Do not turn your conscience and self will over to his darkness.

Originally posted by Echo2
Frodo is the dark force. Spreading his evil religion. Do not fall for his trickery. He is a soldier of evil. Use your intellegence, rational thought and logic to see through his lies. His only interest in you is to sway you to the dark side and turn you into another soldier of evil. Do not turn your conscience and self will over to his darkness.

This is humor right? You don't actually believe what you wrote do you?

Yes I do believe it. I've posted this before, but here it is again...

It isn’t the specific teachings of any individual church or religion that I find evil. It is the loss of ones connection to their humanity that scares me. I believe that religion disconnects people from their personal conscience and their humanity. Instead of looking within themselves and to their conscience for answers they turn to interpretation of scripture (either their own or someone else’s). I believe that people who are taught this practice loose their connection to their own personal conscience and their connection to the world and other living beings, they loose their humanity. I give the example of how the priests who covered up for the child molesters (not the ones that did it, but the ones that covered it up) turned to their church for answers rather than their conscience. These men were probably very honorable, good and loving men. But rather than look to their personal conscience, they turned to their church. Some other examples would be people who kill for their religious convictions, and people who hate for their religious convictions. These are obvious extreme examples and not everyone carries it to that degree. Some just simply cripple themselves in life and ostracize others by their behavior. Like the poor soul who spouts religion at every ebb in a conversation. These people are quite obviously disconnected from their humanity. They couldn’t listen to their own personal conscience and come to a moral conclusion if their life depended on it. Everything in their life, every moral decision, every interaction with other people is a direct result of interpretation of scripture. Their answer for why they believe something is right or wrong is “because the bible says so in So-and-so 12:62”.

I believe that children need to be taught that doing good is its own reward; that we do the right thing because it is the right thing to do. We do not do good because we want to save ourselves from everlasting torment after death or because we want to spend eternity with whatever entity we pray to. Children need to be taught to look to themselves for answers to listen to their own personal conscience and not to some ancient book of scriptures. When we look to ourselves and our conscience for answers, we connect with our humanity and the world around us. We take a personal responsibility for our moral decisions and actions. We take a certain stand because we used sequential thought process and our conscience and we came to a conclusion. We are able to back that stand up with our own personal reasons for taking it, and because it is OUR decision, we are also able to re-evaluate that stand and alter it if we find we are wrong. People who turn to a religion for a decision on what stand to take, can seldom back it up with solid reasons and explain their thought process and how they came to that decision, instead they spout scripture. Sometimes not even understanding the words they are spouting. Also, people who turn to religion for a decision on what stand to take are seldom willing to re-evaluate that decision because religious doctrines almost always teaches not to question, just to go on faith. Having faith demands that we sublimate logic.

Obviously because we are dealing with people there are differing levels of loss of humanity and personal conscience. Some people are on the other end of the spectrum from the extreme examples I gave above. They do not follow all of their churches teachings to the letter. They turn to it for some things, and not for others. Some of their moral conclusions are their own. And many have not completely lost the ability to connect to their conscience, take responsibility for their conclusions, support them without scripture and even re-evaluate them when they feel the need. Something their Church’s would not approve of.

So it isn’t the dogma that religions teach that I find evil. It is the insipient way they take away an individuals connection to their conscience, slowly taking over the person's life until they have little or no connection to their humanity and the world around them other than through that particular religious doctrine. Religions take away peoples personal responsibility for their moral convictions. They tell them what is right and wrong and how to conduct their lives.

I have never been able to wrap my mind around the idea of an all powerful being with an agenda. If an entity is all powerful, why does it have a need to be worshipped?

2nd Commandment; Verses 4-6: "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me. And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

The second part of this is what really throws me. Can anyone explain this insanity?

I have a dog, the dog doesn’t do what I want so instead of killing it (too quick) or beating it to within an inch of its life (to easy) or taking it to behavior classes (not enough sport?) I decide that I am going to breed it and torture its puppies for generations to come. Letting them die of starvation and disease.

To create something with free will, insist it worship you, and then punish it for not doing so is pure insanity.

To create a being with intelligence and logic and then insist it believe in you on “faith” alone is insanity.

To create a being with intelligence and logic and then leave ancient books with hundreds of contradictory passages and hundreds of dubious analogies for that being to try and decipher is cruel.

To allow for thousands of years, children and adults to die over squabbles of whether it exists is heartless, cruel and cold blooded.

If this entity exists, it is not loving or good and certainly doesn’t deserve to be worshiped. It should be hated and feared. Maybe Satan has pulled off a huge practical joke on all these people who think they are worshipping an entity that is good and loving.

I see nothing good and loving about this creature. I keep hearing about it being good and loving but have yet to witness any evidence that it gives a rats ass about human beings.

Just my oppinion.

I don't disagree with you - but remember - Christianity is just a belief system. If you take away the burn in hell yada yada - all of which is simply a hang over from religion protecting itself - then you are left with some good life rules. Of course one does not need Christianity to accept those rules and ideas.

Because christianity taken to an extreme is miss-guided and a cop out does not make the people involved evil.

Remember also that the christian description of God is almost certainly incorrect - so don't get hung up hating the idea of something that is just a silly idea in the first place.

Certainly whatever God exists is not as simplistic and retarded as christians would have you believe.

Christians themselves are not evil. They have been brainwashed and do not understand the harm they are in or that they do to others.

It is the belief in religion that is evil. It separates man from his humanity and conscience. Allowing an institution to make decisions of morality, ethics, values, etc. These decisions should be made from the conscience and connectrion to other life.

I Disagree.

Religion can and has played a useful role in helping man connect with the unknown. It doesn't matter what the religion is - christianity, islam etc.

Religion only becomes a problem when it becomes a reason unto itself.

You also seem to think that without religion man would automatically connect to conscience etc - I disagee.

Religion itself is not the problem, the problem is man's inherent need to have answers. Religion is just a symptom of that.

I think it's kind of strange that you praise religion for helping man connect with the unknown...but when someone talks about their visions of God, Heaven, or Satan you repeat the same tired lines about it being comical or funny, or blah blah blah.

Jere, understand that some of us see a belief in an all powerfull entity to be on the same level as believeing in the easter bunny or leprichauns. We find it humorous and childlike. It is very difficult to keep a straight face when an adult is telling you how much he believes in these things and how wondeffull they are.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
I think it's kind of strange that you praise religion for helping man connect with the unknown...but when someone talks about their visions of God, Heaven, or Satan you repeat the same tired lines about it being comical or funny, or blah blah blah.

Praise religion is too strong a word. I'm just not as hard on it as Echo is, plus I was talking in a general sense, man's experience with religion is much wider than your very narrow view. The view that I tend to laugh at.

The lines may well be tired - but the reality is I do sincerely & honestly find what you and others believe - to be comical & funny. It's extra funny because you have never provided a single thing to back any of it up.

"I believe in fairies - wanna sign up?....you'll burn in hell if you don't. The fairies love you."

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
I think it's kind of strange that you praise religion for helping man connect with the unknown...but when someone talks about their visions of God, Heaven, or Satan you repeat the same tired lines about it being comical or funny, or blah blah blah.
I, personally, don't have a beef with anyone's religion until they start pushing it on me. I won't attack, argue, or insult anyone's faith or someone because of their faith until they start pushing it on me. I think religion has a great potential for good, and it can be used to aid people in being good. It also has a great potential for evil and can be used to aid people in being evil. Fred Phelps and Jerry Falwell are two examples of bad Christians who use the Bible to intimidate and to influence American policy, when it's irrefutable that American governmental policy should not be swayed by religious texts. And using the Bible to intimidate as they do is, I believe, completely against what Jesus was all about: love, compassion, and tolerance. I think many Christians (and many non-Christians) could learn a thing or two from the New Testament. Parts of it are great as a foundation of how to live. And religion, yes, has produced many amazing things. No Christianity? Bye bye Sistine Chapel. But it has its downsides: Faith brought about the Crusades (with, of course, corrupt politicians behind it all). So, in conclusion, religion has been used for good and evil. But it's not for me. And I'm tired of trying to be "shown the light."

Originally posted by Echo2
They have been brainwashed and do not understand the harm they are in or that they do to others.


:hitout:

Holy crap...I don't know which scares the bejesus out of me the most...those who think believers are evil or those that believe to the extreme that all non-believers are evil...

Go far enough one way, and I think ya hit the other side...

I think im coming to terms with the fact that ive got split personalty disorder and one of those is a devouted christian.... its a painful place to be,.

Blob and anyone else with this problem,

To show you that Jesus Christ is really Lord and that those are really demons that attacked you in sleep paralysis, the next time this happens where you have those nightmares, or sleep paralysis, or especially if you feel a presence in the room, say "By the blood of Christ I rebuke you" or "The Lord rebuke you" The attack will stop right away or you will feel the presence leave. Try it. Think I'm crazy right? Try it. The Lord is God.

Just do this simple experiment for me then. If you ever feel abducted by aliens or any of that, say "The Lord rebuke you" and it will stop. Try it if you think I am full of it. I have done this many, many times. They are really demons and they are subject to Jesus Christ. He is God and they fear Him and you are involking His power by saying that statement.

After you find out the Jesus Christ is really true. Ask Him to be your Savior, to forgive you for your unbelief and to come into your heart and save you from your sins. Thank Him for dying on the cross for your sins and for saving you.

Your paralysis was really a demonic attack. I have had it happen to me many times. I have rebuked them and called upon the Lord, and God HAS delivered me. You can't say that it was all in my mind because I HAD bruises on my arms and my arms were tired after at least one attack. There is no other explanation other than that it really happened.

Demons are fallen angels. They are in a war with God at this time over the souls of men. They want you to go to hell. Read some Near Death Experiences. When these people died and left their bodies, they were alert, they felt more alert than ever before in their lives, they could feel the wind in their face, they could feel the cold floor. They see demons and are mocked and ridiculed by them. Many of those people become Christians as a result. These people can describe what the doctors were saying when they were dead (heart stopped for 10-15 minutes) They describe people in the room and things which really occured. There is no other explanation other than that they were really outside of their body.

Originally posted by XFRODOBAGGINSX
Blob and anyone else with this problem,

To show you that Jesus Christ is really Lord and that those are really demons that attacked you in sleep paralysis, the next time this happens where you have those nightmares, or sleep paralysis, or especially if you feel a presence in the room, say "By the blood of Christ I rebuke you" or "The Lord rebuke you" The attack will stop right away or you will feel the presence leave. Try it. Think I'm crazy right? Try it. The Lord is God.

Just do this simple experiment for me then. If you ever feel abducted by aliens or any of that, say "The Lord rebuke you" and it will stop. Try it if you think I am full of it. I have done this many, many times. They are really demons and they are subject to Jesus Christ. He is God and they fear Him and you are involking His power by saying that statement.
I'll try!!!!

This is why the South shouldnt have internet access.

Demons are fallen angels unlike what most people believe i didnt get my name from the Norse god, i got it from one such film potrayed angel by the name of Loki. Its my way of showing respect to those who side against God since if he exists as the bible depicts him then he is one sick twisted son of a bitch and face facts here. Those demons you speak of exist because he made them and since he is allseeing he knew they were gonna hurt you before they did and let it happen because he likes to see the little men squirm.

Ill stand with the Fallen any day of the week.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
This is why the South shouldnt have internet access.
Because everyone in the South thinks like him. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
This is why the South shouldnt have internet access.


I assume you are refering to southern England.

BTW It's "bale" of cotton/hay, not "bail" (that's what you do when your dinghy is sinking).

:D

Overdose this is why English films dont do so well in the states, english humour just goes right over your heads. Ill slow things down if you like but then much like most of your humour, whats the point.

Oldphart this is what i get for copying from Ludacris, ill keep it how it is though and see how many more people notice that, your the first :)

I am not from the South. I am from the North, way north.

Your paralysis was really a demonic attack.I don't doubt you truly believe yourself; so much so that saying "By the Lord be gone" you have found an effective strategy to quell the experience.
I have had it happen to me many times.I haven't. It happened to me less than a dozen times during my youth and never since in over a decade. Yet I am not a believer and never requested divine intervention during an episode. It seems calling on supernatural rescue does not solve the problem but in fact escalates it. Perhaps you believe in demons so strongly that you will never be free of them even if, say, they don't really exist.
You can't say that it was all in my mind because I HAD bruises on my arms and my armsI didn't have any physical injuries. Indeed compared to your demons the ones that came for me were pretty feeble and incompetent. All they managed was to induce paralysis and profound emotions - something everyone does at night anyway when they sleep. It seems calling on your god to help leads to more violent encounters with demons than not believing at all.

Also, there are other mechanisms by which bruises can occur than demonic attack. One way would be to bump yourself, perhaps during sleepwalking or intermittent convulsions between periods of sleep paralysis. I'm afraid I can very easily suggest it was all in your mind.
There is no other explanation other than that it really happened. I have provided another explanation. I might be wrong; but you are certainly wrong to say no other explanations are possible. Indeed, I find my explanation much more consistent than yours with testimonial accounts of strange experiences deep in the night such as my own.
These people can describe what the doctors were saying when they were dead (heart stopped for 10-15 minutes) They describe people in the room and things which really occured. There is no other explanation other than that they were really outside of their body.I advise such people collect their $1M prize (http://randi.org/research/index.html).



Frodo, claims should be in proportion with evidence. You claim to know with precision and certainty the very meaning and purpose of life! ...but your evidence is merely personal testimony of sleep experiences and bruises; mixed in with assertions that your personal interpretation is the only possible account. Do you see the imbalance here Frodo?

Originally posted by Echo2
Jere, understand that some of us see a belief in an all powerfull entity to be on the same level as believeing in the easter bunny or leprichauns. We find it humorous and childlike. It is very difficult to keep a straight face when an adult is telling you how much he believes in these things and how wondeffull they are. Echo , you are by far, the dumbest poster on these boards. You are a semi-illiterate, close minded, old, living for nothing, foul bitch. The thought that you have offspring sends cold chills down my spine that there could be others like you.

Anyway, everytime you post something, this is what i think when i read it. Isnt sharing our opinions and feelings a wonderful thing?

Originally posted by HaVoK
Echo , you are by far, the dumbest poster on these boards. You are a semi-illiterate, close minded, old, living for nothing, foul bitch. The thought that you have offspring sends cold chills down my spine that there could be others like you.



Thank you Havok. :D

But aside from your flair for the hatefull posts.....why do you find it odd that someone views religion as a superstition? Do you really expect people who see religion as fairy tales to take it seriously? To take the people who profess to believe in it seriously? Come on, not everyone is that gullible and in need of a crutch to help them through life.

If a grown adult professes to believe in the easter bunny completely and thoughouly and could not be swayed from his belief in the easter bunny, would not you find it a bit hard to take that guy seriously? To think of him as intellegent or logical or for that matter - in his right mind?

Originally posted by Echo2
Do you really expect people who see religion as fairy tales...to take the people who profess to believe in it seriously?
I expect those people to at least be respectful of other's beliefs. You have no proof that you are correct, Echo, so it is a pointless and arrogant exercise to believe that you are so.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
I expect those people to at least be respectful of other's beliefs. You have no proof that you are correct, Echo, so it is a pointless and arrogant exercise to believe that you are so.

And that is the whole problem. They have no proof that they are correct yet they say things like "you're going to hell" and "you are a sinner". I find that disrespectfull. But rather than get upset, I look at the source. In my oppinion people who believe in an all powerfull diety are mentally crippled. I understand that it bugs you to hear someone say that outloud, but so what. They say to me that I am going to hell, that I am a sinner, etc, etc. There is not much difference.

It is not any more pointless and arrogant for me to believe I am right than it is for them to believe they are right. For the record....I have yet to find a truly religious person that was respectfull on atheists beliefs (or lack thereof).

Originally posted by Echo2
And that is the whole problem. They have no proof that they are correct yet they say things like "you're going to hell" and "you are a sinner". I find that disrespectfull.
So do I. And I certainly don't like those kinds of people. But not all of those who subscribe to a religion say (or think) such things.
It is not any more pointless and arrogant for me to believe I am right than it is for them to believe they are right. For the record....I have yet to find a truly religious person that was respectfull on atheists beliefs (or lack thereof).
Two wrongs don't make a right.

Originally posted by Echo2
In my oppinion people who believe in an all powerfull diety are mentally crippled.

What does that make people that believe in some sort of "body aura" that ties all humans together?

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Two wrongs don't make a right.

You got me on that one. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by LionelHutz
What does that make people that believe in some sort of "body aura" that ties all humans together?

I do believe we are all connected.

Originally posted by Echo2
I do believe we are all connected. Great comprehension there. LMFAO.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Great comprehension there. LMFAO.

Sorry but I am still realing from your offer to send me a pic of your prick. ROTFLMAO