As I've been saying all along. Racism and war crimes are rampant in the US military...
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Army reservist witnesses war crimes
New revelations about racism in the military

April 1, 2005—Aiden Delgado, an Army Reservist in the 320th Military Police Company, served in Iraq from April 1, 2003 through April 1, 2004. After spending six months in Nasiriyah in Southern Iraq, he spent six months helping to run the now-infamous Abu Ghraib prison outside of Baghdad. The handsome 23-year-old mechanic was a witness to widespread, almost daily, U.S. war crimes in Iraq. His story contains new revelations about ongoing brutality at Abu Ghraib, information yet to be reported in national media.

I first met Delgado in a classroom at Acalanes High School in Lafayette, California, where he presented a slide show on the atrocities that he himself observed in Southern and Northern Iraq. Delgado acknowledged that the U.S. military did some good things in Iraq. "We deposed Saddam, built some schools and hospitals," he said. But he focused his testimony on the breakdown of moral order within the U.S. military, a pattern of violence and terror that exceeds the bounds of what is legally and morally permissible in time of war.

Delgado says he observed mutilation of the dead, trophy photos of dead Iraqis, mass roundups of innocent noncombatants, positioning of prisoners in the line of fire—all violations of the Geneva conventions. His own buddies—decent, Christian men, as he describes them—shot unarmed prisoners.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/040105Rockwell/040105rockwell.html
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Green light for Iraqi prison abuse came right from the top

Classified documents show the former US military chief in Iraq personally sanctioned measures banned by the Geneva Conventions. Andrew Buncombe reports from Washington

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=625909
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As to why they are there...
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US relied on 'drunken liar' to justify war

'Crazy' Iraqi spy was full of misinformation, says report

According to a US presidential commission looking into pre-war intelligence failures, the basis for pivotal intelligence on Iraq's alleged biological weapons programmes and fleet of mobile labs was a spy described as 'crazy' by his intelligence handlers and a 'congenital liar' by his friends.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1451138,00.html?gusrc=rss
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While we're at it lets look at the mercenaries the US has in Iraq
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Fury at 'shoot for fun' memo

Outburst by US security firm in Iraq is attacked by human rights groups
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1451137,00.html
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I wonder if its fun to get killed, mutilated and strung up from a bridge for shooting people?

Screw our troops. It is blantantly appearent that they commit war crimes daily based on a lie. Most of them don't care. Killing people and being told youre a great american does wonders for the violent ego.

Doubts on Weapons Were Dismissed

As former secretary of state Colin L. Powell worked into the night in a New York hotel room, on the eve of his February 2003 presentation to the U.N. Security Council, CIA officers sent urgent e-mails and cables describing grave doubts about a key charge he was going to make.
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I guess they avoid the word "ignored" like the do "lie."

Lets not forget the loyal media who helped either....
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NYT & WMD: Profiles In Timidity

Spread across two columns of the front page, two full pages inside and within a scathing editorial, The New York Times gave comprehensive coverage to the report of the presidential commission studying intelligence on WMD.

They left out just one little detail: themselves.

http://villagevoice.com/blogs/pressclipsextra/archives/2005/04/nyt_wmd_profile.php

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla

Screw our troops. It is blantantly appearent that they commit war crimes daily based on a lie. Most of them don't care. Killing people and being told youre a great american does wonders for the violent ego.

I disagree. The troops are simply following orders.

It is not the troops that we should condemn, but the higher ups in the corrupt and thoroughly dishonest Bush Administration --like Rumsfeld et al-- who give the troops their direction that we should be investigating and --if applicable-- jailing.

dop already posted this. you got to get up pretty early in the morning to beat dop to a troop bashing post.

The Nazis "just followed orders" too. At some point there needs to be some personal responsibiliy/accountability.

They are not orddered to smash bottles on random Iraqis heads. They are not ordered to rape innocent Iraqis. Sure its is 'accepted' in the military but no one is forcing them to do such.

isnt the military full of poor minorities? why would they do this to people?

Originally posted by Freethinker
I disagree. The troops are simply following orders.

It is not the troops that we should condemn, but the higher ups in the corrupt and thoroughly dishonest Bush Administration --like Rumsfeld et al-- who give the troops their direction that we should be investigating and --if applicable-- jailing.

no sir,
troops are very aware of the geneva convention rules. or at least when i was in the army, you were made aware of it. also under the usmcj you are aware you are allowed to refuse an order that violates the geneva convention. if you are forced to obey such order, as in the nco or officer points a gun to your head and says do it or die for refusing such order you can do it and then later file charges against said nco or officer. these troops do have options, and they should know they have these options. they are not just following orders. they are willfully committing crimes.

I agree with Ivan, if you can believe that or not. A service member is held accountable if he obeys an unlawful order. The question is, was the order given or was he acting on his own?

And I'm tired of responding to 500's bashing of the military. If one American kills another, then all Americans are murderers by his logic (including himself). I just grin and laugh now when I see his posts. Because his tax money paid for my new house and gas guzzling American truck. Thanks 500!!!!


I'd travel half away around the world to smoke a camel.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2004/11/18/MNG0Q9SM6B1.DTL&o=0

I agree, both 500 lb guerilla and dops constant attacks on US forces are a bit old. I stopped even bothering to worry about it anymore. Its clear they have an irrational fear of the US military, or a complete lack of perspective of what these men go through every day. Itse easy to sit in a nice air conditioned room scouring the internet for links to stories about attrocities. I doubt they would ever confront a soldier face to face about it, or say what they say it on any military base.

Sure those troops knew exactly what they were doing. They're not following orders. The Geneva Convention rules and such are drilled into the soldiers constantly. The questions should address who started it, who opened the doors giving permission - verbal or otherwise - for that behavior to go on.

Originally posted by Freethinker
---------"I disagree. The troops are simply following orders. It is not the troops that we should condemn, but the higher ups in the corrupt and thoroughly dishonest Bush Administration --like Rumsfeld et al-- who give the troops their direction..."


Originally posted by ivan
no sir,
troops are very aware of the geneva convention rules. or at least when i was in the army, you were made aware of it. also under the usmcj you are aware you are allowed to refuse an order that violates the geneva convention.

I do not know for certain, but i get the distinct impression that should any individual soldier begin to buck his superiors and the entire military syatem, as it were, saying to an officer -- "No sir, I refuse to follow that order, because it seems to me to be against the Geneva convention" -- that soldier would be subject to extreme (although likely not openly) derision and villification--- maybe even to the point of having violence directed against him-- by his fellow soldiers with the (unspoken) approval of his superior officers.

Originally posted by GW_Rules
And I'm tired of responding to 500's bashing of the military. If one American kills another, then all Americans are murderers by his logic (including himself). I just grin and laugh now when I see his posts. Because his tax money paid for my new house and gas guzzling American truck. Thanks 500!!!! LOL!
Originally posted by Travh20
Itse easy to sit in a nice air conditioned room scouring the internet for links to stories about attrocities. I doubt they would ever confront a soldier face to face about it, or say what they say it on any military base.
Good post too, Trav. But, yanno.... they will obviously come back with "well I HAVE told my fellow Veteran's the same thing, blah blah blah" and the ever popular "what have you done for our troops? Baked cookies?". Doing NOTHING is better than dragging their name thru the mud on a daily -- no wait -- hourly basis.

I cant believe this much time and effort has to go into defending our own soldiers from the people who claim to support them. And defending them from these leechs is pretty much a full time job. Besides that I email with several friends of mine who are in iraq right now and send them things in the mail now and then, like magazines and video games. thats pretty much all one can do except to join themselves

Originally posted by Travh20
Its easy to ...scour... the internet for links to stories about attrocities. I doubt they would ever confront a soldier face to face about it....

Maybe not.

But then, that in no way does anything to dispute the fact that said attrocities occured.

Contrary to what you seem to believe Trav, the fact that (as an example) military people would react violently to having what occured at Abu Ghraib exposed does not mean that nothing happened at Abu Ghraib.

it was the military who exposed what was going on at abu ghraib, not some left wing reporter. that is one key fact that always escapes all the talk about abu ghraib. I bet most people think some new york times reproter or someone broke the story, in reality the military investigated itself and boke the story itself.

I do have a hard time believeing all the stories about out of control soldiers raping kids and slashing peoples throats for fun. Having been in the military myself and in the grunt infantry where the supposed worst of the worst are, i cant see anything like that happening. The "evidnece" of intentional attrocities is not reliable in my opinion. I know that there are attrocities taking place, and I denounce them and hope th perpetraters are fully punished to the full extent of the law, but I do not agree that these attrocities are systematic and ordered from George Bush himself, that is complete BS. Men in the military are men of honor. Many are family men. I know people indoctrinated to hate them like 500lbguerilla are to far gone to see reality, but it is true.

Trav - you a fuckin idiot without any real grasp of reality.

Yes the military investigated the abuse first. Hell the navy didn't even want to have soldiers stationed there because of what was going on. But you know what happened ABSOLUTLY NOTHING. The government had all these reports of prisoner abuse adn they did absolutly nothing about it. You know why? because they ordered it: (Trav : why do you even bother to post in these forums if you never read any of the links. Its be better to just stay off the internet then expose your self-induced ignorance. This link if from the top of this exact same thread)
Green light for Iraqi prison abuse came right from the top Classified documents show the former US military chief in Iraq personally sanctioned measures banned by the Geneva Conventions. Andrew Buncombe reports from Washington http://news.independent.co.uk/world...sp?story=625909

So the military had ordered the toture so of course they werent going to do anything about it. Then CBS got a hold of the photos (from a concerned soldier I assume) and the government had them delay the release of the pictures and story for 2 months. You know what they did in those 2 months...NOTHING. They let the torture continue. Then when it did finally hit the air they expressed shock and denied that any such orders were given. Well that recently been exposed too.
The "evidnece" of intentional attrocities is not reliable in my opinion Lemmie guess, because the government told you so...
Again you didnt even bother to read my first link. A soldier admitting his own and others crimes against humanity. Trav your the one whos "indoctrinated to hate" and "are to far gone to see reality".
If one American kills another, then all Americans are murderers by his logic (including himself).
GW gimmie a fuckin break. You know that the military is suppossed to be a well diciplined, respectable and responsible for its soldiers actions. They are suppossed to be above deplorable actions and if they do occur justice is suppossed to be served. I already know all of thats a lie but Id love to hear to say it.
I doubt they would ever confront a soldier face to face about it All the soldiers I met are violent pussies (kind of like all the skinheads I've met). They wont attack you unless your outnumbered or outgunned. When we protested the military recruiter he asked us where we lived so he could come over and kick our asses. We told him, he never showed up.

GW gimmie a fuckin break. You know that the military is suppossed to be a well diciplined, respectable and responsible for its soldiers actions. They are suppossed to be above deplorable actions and if they do occur justice is suppossed to be served. I already know all of thats a lie but Id love to hear to say it.

99.9% of the military is well diciplined and respectable. And we should be held to a higher standard since we wear the uniform of the USA. Just as government officials should be since they represent, or are supposed to represent, the people.

But the military and the government are indicitive of society. And like society the majority of the people follow the rules, but not everybody. But you can't label the whole based on the actions of the few. That is the basis of prejudice.

If we were talking about another group of people, say African-americans. And you claimed that guy killed that guy to get his drugs. Does that make all African-americans murdering druggies? Would that be considered being prejudice?

I mean no disrespect towards anybody. I have family members and friends who are African-american.


All the soldiers I met are violent pussies

Like I said, the vast majority of military members are well disiplined and respectible. You should be thankful of that. Obviously by you last statement you are niether.