So it seems that the US is gearing up for a proxy war in Venezuela. They have been doing this for a while now. Trying to smear popularly elected president Hugo Chavez. The IRI (McCains outfit) orchestrated a military coup in venezuala based on deception and media baron complicity. During the coup the dictator installed was the president of venezuelas biggest oil company. He promptly eradicated all responsibility of the government to the people by dissolving the omsbudsman and numerous other position as well as reprivatizing all of venezuelas infrastructure. Chavez was put back into power by people taking to the streets.

Then a referendum by the elites. Hugo easily won. The opponant declared fraud (contrary to jimmy carters direct observance) then when a chance to randomly verify the vote arouse they refused to participate and still called it a fraud. Amazingly Venezuelans electronic voting machines all had paper trails. Which begs the question: Why is venezuelas democracy more technologically advanced than America's?

The media has repeatedly slandered Hugo chavez through lies. You see the rich venezuelans, who despise Chavez because hes helping the poor, can speak english and so get all the press coverage. They also own all the media outlets. The same ones that organized the military coup based on lies. Chavez has made venezuelan government far more responsible to the people.

And recently the Washington post claimed that venezuelas journalists are being jailed. The irony of such a statement did not go unnoticed. Besides that, venezuela promptly responded that their press is free.

Venezuela's Media Minister Andres Izarra replies to the Washington Post
http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=29153

The pentagon has also been threatening violence against venezuela. They also claim he is trying to "influence" the region. Funny coming from a country who just successfully rigged 4 elections and a coup in post soviet europe/asia (afghanistan and Iraq anyone? or Iran, Syria, lebanon, etc...). Besides that Columbia has been getting increasing military assisstance. The US claims this is to fight Cocaine production. But given that Cocoa plants resistant to US herbicide has been springing up all over Columbia their spraying efforts are actually driving farmer to cocaine production since other crops die from the poisonous chemicals.

Pentagon Chief Escalates Threats against Venezuela

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/AUK503A.html

Did you hear about Chavez saying that the U.S. is trying to kill him? He says that if he is dead by unnatural causes, it is Bush's fault. Oh yeah, about that U.S. wanting to stop production of cocaine. How do you think drugs are introduced to the streets? People need to realize that this isn't their grandfather’s government; this is a ruthless bunch of liars and idiots. The New World Order looms ever so close, and our rights, our natural rights will be stripped and turned against us.

Originally posted by thetruth05
Did you hear about Chavez saying that the U.S. is trying to kill him? He says that if he is dead by unnatural causes, it is Bush's fault.

Of course it will be.

The fact that he would have to spell it out in such detail only illiustrates the extreme ignorance and gullibility of the populace at large.

the Minister of Media has told us that their press is free :rolleyes:

How many on this forum would endorse a pre-emptive strike against Venezuela? Let's say the reasons are the same as used against Iraq.

WMD's
Chavez is an oppressive dictator
To bring democracy to Venezuela

Would you support such a move?

The reason I'm asking? It's just a matter of time until it happens.

Did you hear about Chavez saying that the U.S. is trying to kill him? Yeah I mean the US never tries to murder leaders that they don't like?

Did you even read the articles I posted or my post at all? The US has already tried to overthrow him with a military coup and a referendum. So you tell me what is it that they would try next to get rid of him?

He has said if he is assassinated that Venezuela will stop selling oil to the US.

the Minister of Media has told us that their press is free Yes of course the information is somewhat unreliable when it comes from the government. But given how you eat the shit this government regurgitates everyday of course you would blindly believe them no matter what they say. Fact is I trust the venezuelan government more than the US which has been using covert propaganda with tax payers money. Which has been jailing members of the press for not revealing their sources. The US government that has been indesciminatly killing unembedded reporters (actually I'd love to see the statistics of how many embedded reporters have been killed versus independant, you would thing that those actively moving about with a combat unit would be more likely to get shot than those that dont....)

do you ever leave your house, or do you live in a george orwell novel? go outside and shout how much you hate the president and america, see how long it takes the cops to ge there to arrest you.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
How many on this forum would endorse a pre-emptive strike against Venezuela? Let's say the reasons are the same as used against Iraq.

WMD's
Chavez is an oppressive dictator
To bring democracy to Venezuela

Would you support such a move?

The reason I'm asking? It's just a matter of time until it happens.
Gee.........yeah.......what're the chances of getting-involved with a coup, in an OPEC-country, like Venezuela.......when we've been involved in an OIL-WAR, in a NON-OPEC country??!!! (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2670913.stm) :rolleyes:

*

U.S.-taxpayers can be such suckers........when they hear drug-war!! (http://www.antiwarcommittee.org/resources/Colombia/NewUSTroops6-2003.htm) :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Travh20
do you ever leave your house, or do you live in a george orwell novel?
You've gotta come-outta your bunker (or, out from under-your-rock), more often. (http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/index.cfm?page=Article&ID=66) :hitout:

http://www.allhatnocattle.net/00a.jpg

It's nice to see leaders like Chavez or Lula in latin America. Makes me hope this continent will eventually develop its own model of society.
About the fact that Bush tried to remove Chavez from power more than once, there is not even discussing it. I saw a documentary about the first coup against Chavez, filmed by an italian TV crew that was there by chance - they were making a documentary about Venezuela at this time. Thay filmed everything - the first set up "demonstrations", the way agitators shooted at people to make them blame the govt, and all the coup - that miserably failed after thousand of people went in the streets to support Chavez.

so how much money did we pay each "demonstrator" exactly?

Originally posted by Travh20
so how much money did we pay each "demonstrator" exactly?
When Lil' Dumbya's controlling the purse-strings, who's counting!!! (http://www.theinsider.org/mailing/article.asp?id=926) :@@:



http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/graphics/bush_republicard.jpg

I think you need to change the experation date on that card to 1/09

Just in case Trav didnt click on Shamans links (which Im sure he didn't because I rarely click on links with cryptic descriptions)

U.S. Troops Guarding Columbian Oil Pipeline
http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/index.cfm?page=Article&ID=66

US troops engage further in Colombia
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2670913.stm

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

so how much money did we pay each "demonstrator" exactly? Trav why do you ask the most inane questions that have nothing to do with a situation you know nothing about? Why dont you ask what happened instead of spastically trying to discredit what you are completely ignorant about.

Go watch "the revolution will not be televised"

very short summary:
A anti-Chavez/nationalized oil protest was held at an oil refinary. At the same time there was a pro chavez rally at the presidentail palace. The anti-Chavez people "spontainiously" decided to march towards the opposition protest. (Obviously this was meant to incite violence as it has no other purpose) Venezuelan security stuggled to keep the 2 groups apart from each other. Suddenly people started getting shot in the head on both sides (obviously a sniper not in the demonstration). Everybody fled for cover. Then those that had guns were returning fire to where they thought the shot were coming from. Eventually people left the area. Then all of those who owned the media (and were anti-Chavez because hes all about helping the impoverished) Cut and sliced the footage of the protests and shootings to make it look like those who were returning fire had been the ones shooting innocent people. They claimed that all of them were the pro-chavez protestors and that they had attacked the anti-chavez march.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Heres some more links about some revelations since then. I like how the US media praised a military coup a 'victory for democracy.'

Venezuela coup linked to Bush team
Specialists in the 'dirty wars' of the Eighties encouraged the plotters who tried to topple President Chavez
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,688071,00.html

U.S. Papers Hail Venezuelan Coup as Pro-Democracy Move
http://www.fair.org/press-releases/venezuela-editorials.html

Originally posted by Travh20
go outside and shout how much you hate the president and america, see how long it takes the cops to ge there to arrest you.

True.

But then, it is a cornerstone of fascist governments that *freedom of speech* is not respected.....

.....in Amerikkka, it is often made to SEEM that it is allowed, but in practice --as Travh20 points out--- it is not.

go outside and shout how much you hate the president and america, see how long it takes the cops to ge there to arrest you.

Actually The Pigs tried to arrest me for protesting at a public market place. They colluded with security on how they could arrest me then set a plan in motion. Basically one of them harrassed me. I told him to "fuck off." Then they tried to arrest me for disorderly conduct because I said a "bad word." Unfortunatly for them while they were standing there harrassing me numerous reichwingers threatened me with violence. I didn't make a peep. Also many people came up to me to show support. They realized if they arrestted me I would have had every single person that walked up to me arrested. They would also be in some shit with all the people that supported me.

Now they didnt necessarily even think the charge would have stuck. But had I been arrested on the weekend I would sit in jail for 28+ hours waiting for a judge on Mon.
++++++++++++++++++
Another example:

http://www.phoenixanarchist.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=219&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

What that article leaves out is that everyone at the house was also charged with "disorderly conduct."

2 weeks before the house was raided (and theres footage of this) A Pig named James Voss stopped by a couter recruitment protest. He said quote "theres a fine line between freedom of speech and disorderly conduct." He was running the show the night of the raid.

I will see if I can get this footage put up on the web sometime.
+++++++++++++++++++
So yes Trav there is government suppression of freedom of speech.