It's great waking up in the morning knowing that I'm American, a citizen of the greatest nation. I don't see how a person can live in a country that they do not love and repect. If I thought there was a better country in the world, I would move to it.

I mean, why be bitter and unhappy with where you live? You have a choice to live where you want to. Many people have left there countries in pursuit a better things elsewhere. Look at how many people come to America every year. They know America can offer so much opportunity.

http://qraft.net/fun/misc_pictures/My%20American%20Flag.jpg

I came to the US almost 6 years ago with my mom and dad, legally. We moved here in search of happiness and a better future for me. In Romania, the economy is very bad, low paying jobs all over the place, and the prices skyrocket every day. To tell you the truth, I liked it here the first year or so... Then I started to realize that my parents couldn't get any good paying job, the education system is very bad... and as for politics (I won't even go there). See the thing is, I would definitely move out of the United States, except I DO NOT have any money.

Originally posted by DracRomin
I came to the US almost 6 years ago with my mom and dad, legally. We moved here in search of happiness and a better future for me. In Romania, the economy is very bad, low paying jobs all over the place, and the prices skyrocket every day. To tell you the truth, I liked it here the first year or so... Then I started to realize that my parents couldn't get any good paying job, the education system is very bad... and as for politics (I won't even go there). See the thing is, I would definitely move out of the United States, except I DO NOT have any money.

Glad to hear that some people still come to America legally. It's hard to address you situation since I have no idea or your age, education, and vocation backround. But here is a website that offers scholarships for Romanian nationals.

http://www.romanianvillage.com/scholarships.html

I'm sure there are more out there. Hope this helps and you find success in America.

I agree with Drac about the education. Seems like every school has an asshole administrator you have to deal with...
*coughs and waits for the assholes at my school to ban me from the site*

Originally posted by GW_Rules
Glad to hear that some people still come to America legally. It's hard to address you situation since I have no idea or your age, education, and vocation backround. But here is a website that offers scholarships for Romanian nationals.

http://www.romanianvillage.com/scholarships.html

I'm sure there are more out there. Hope this helps and you find success in America.

That's not what I meant. Of course there are a lot of scholarships given out for different things, as I do have a few. I am 18 years old by the way, on my way to college next year.

I was talking about the emphasis that is NOT put on school here. I mean where the respect for teachers? Students talk back to teachers? Boy, if that happened in Romania, not only you would get 5 across the face, but also you would get throw out of class.

Now as for education, it's really light. I have no idea if you've been to Europe. Now that's where you really learn. When I came here I though school was a joke... really! I had no idea how easy classes were (well except English...that took me a while to learn).

I love your 'America must be the best because I am completely ignorant of other coutries and ways of living.'

Besides that the whole "Love it or leave it" attitude is a simplistic fallacy. Isn't the whole point of having a democracy (which we dont but pretend to) the ability to change the negative aspects of a country without violence? The "love it or leave it" attitude itself is Unamerican.

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does NOT mean to stand by the President or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country." --Teddy Roosevelt

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government."
Thomas Paine

"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it."
--Martin Luther King, Jr.

There's a pretty good veiw when your standing on the backs of millions of exploited, poor, starving people.

America is an enormous frosted cupcake in the middle of millions of starving people.
Gloria Steinem

I cant remember where I heard it but:

'Living in America is like living at the Sapranos house. Theres lots of nice stuff everywhere but you really don't want to know where it came from or how it got there'

Drac,

I believe that you are correct about our public school system, that whole mess the U.S. has made of Education is almost beyond recognition. I also agree with your idea of what to do with students who talk back, if a teacher can't slap a student, then that student should be very politely shown the door to the Principals office and from the Principal's office they could be read the riot act. Either behave or we'll just throw your ass out. I've seen it happen in one of my college classes, one of the students started back talking to the teacher, the teacher told him to get the hell out and don't come back till you've had a talk with me, that student never came back.

What you want, and what conservatives are trying for, is school choice, the option of choosing a private school. There was a story about a private school in the New York Post. Where the public schools have a 20 some odd page book on what to do with students who don't obey the rules, this school has three solutions to students who are misbehaving, detention, suspension and expulsion. And this school WILL expel a misbahaving student, this school also has a high quality curriculum as well as high acedemic achievement amongst the students.

Drac, you have a long road ahead of you to make it here in the U.S. You will NEED either and college education or a job skill. Also, you will find college to offer a much better education than what goes on in the typical high school, dammit.

Until age 16 it is required by law that you go to school. They can't kick you out.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Drac,

I believe that you are correct about our public school system, that whole mess the U.S. has made of Education is almost beyond recognition. I also agree with your idea of what to do with students who talk back, if a teacher can't slap a student, then that student should be very politely shown the door to the Principals office and from the Principal's office they could be read the riot act. Either behave or we'll just throw your ass out. I've seen it happen in one of my college classes, one of the students started back talking to the teacher, the teacher told him to get the hell out and don't come back till you've had a talk with me, that student never came back.

What you want, and what conservatives are trying for, is school choice, the option of choosing a private school. There was a story about a private school in the New York Post. Where the public schools have a 20 some odd page book on what to do with students who don't obey the rules, this school has three solutions to students who are misbehaving, detention, suspension and expulsion. And this school WILL expel a misbahaving student, this school also has a high quality curriculum as well as high acedemic achievement amongst the students.

Drac, you have a long road ahead of you to make it here in the U.S. You will NEED either and college education or a job skill. Also, you will find college to offer a much better education than what goes on in the typical high school, dammit.

Thank you for understand where I am coming from with this. I haven't lived the college life just yet, but high school was total bullshit. I hope it to be more challenging in college. And from there I hope on getting a high paying job...

Blibb,

On the one hand I agree with the idea of not depriving a child of an education, but it can't be an excuse for a parent to dump an unruly child on the school system and let them deal with that problem child. It's the parents responsibility to see that their child gets educated, not the schools. Seriously, if the Principal of a public school started calling parents up and saying "Hey, your kid is too much of a problem to teach here, we're expelling him and it's not up to YOU to find him or her another school that will put up them" and make that idea stick (you can imagine if a parent had to drive their kid twenty or thirty miles to another school because they got expelled what they would do to that kid and that example would filter down to other parents of other recalcitrant kids) I think we'd be a long way closer to having decent schools again.

Drac,

I wish you luck in college, and if you do the work, you WILL get that high paying job, and the American Dream, dammit.

It would be great to find a school principal with the cojones to actually call a parent to deliver such a message, and akin to winning the lottery to find a school administration to back that message.

Originally posted by GW_Rules
If I thought there was a better country in the world, I would move to it.

What other countries have you visited ? What do you think of them ? Why do you beleive it's better to live in the USA ?


You know, people usually tend to believe their country is the best. In fact they are right : the best place is in fact the place where you feel good, and it's usually the place where you have grown up. Now that does not mean any country is intrinsically better than another.
Of course there are many examples of countries where life is so hard people want to go away. But that does not mean they like better the place where they go. If given the opportunity (a decent job, no violence) many immigrants would prefer to come back home.

Originally posted by astrapol2
What other countries have you visited ? What do you think of them ? Why do you beleive it's better to live in the USA ?


You know, people usually tend to believe their country is the best. In fact they are right : the best place is in fact the place where you feel good, and it's usually the place where you have grown up. Now that does not mean any country is intrinsically better than another.
Of course there are many examples of countries where life is so hard people want to go away. But that does not mean they like better the place where they go. If given the opportunity (a decent job, no violence) many immigrants would prefer to come back home.

I have been to several different countries; Mexico Brazil, Panama, Canada, England, Scottland, Greece, Spain, Portigal, Italy, Philippines, Japan, South Korea, Iraq,
Kuwait, Afganhistan, Australia, India, Germany, and others.

And, in my opinion, America is the greatest. If I was born and raised in another country I would probably believe that was the best, well except France.

My favorite was Japan. I lived there for two years. It's a culture full of history and traditions. The citizens are extemely polite and respectfu towards Americansl, desite WWII.

At least we can't say you only know the USA !

My favorite foreign country is probably UK - I like their lifestyle and most of all their humor. But they lack good heating systems in many houses !

I've been to many countries. I'm from the UK. I would have to agree that overall the US is the best place to live.

For day to day living - the US is by far the most convenient place on earth, with the best standard of living.

What I have here in the US - people in the UK just don't have the same lifestyle

Originally posted by DrewM
For day to day living - the US is by far the most convenient place on earth, with the best standard of living.


I agree with you and I have lived in four countries, Spain, UK, The Netherlands and the US.

Originally posted by astrapol2
At least we can't say you only know the USA !

My favorite foreign country is probably UK - I like their lifestyle and most of all their humor. But they lack good heating systems in many houses !

I agree, I liked England too even though I only visited for about 2 weeks. People offered me and my family a warm welcome and I actually had no problem making friends, despite my lack of the English language...It was a fun 2 weeks, we visited a lot of cool places, and learned a lot of things about England that I had not known about.

Ehhh, countries.

They're things we make up. The borders we draw do not really exist. To say one is better than the other, I think, is kinda dumb. "My little patch of land on this side of the imaginary line is better than your little patch of land on the other side of the imaginary line." To love America just because it is America, and to deck your car all out in flags like that...what does it even mean? If there is any reason I'd love the center of the North American Land Mass above all other land masses, I'd have to say:
a) my friends live here
b) my house is here
c) New York city is a part of it.
Besides that, why is it more special than anywhere else?

I disagree sputnik,

Though I'll qualify my statements by first saying that it DOES help a lot if ones country is rich in mineral, coal and oil deposits as well as deep water ports and rich soil on which to farm.

Having said that, what makes America and the West for that matter so great is their train of thought.

I've posted it before, but I'll do so again here. The West, this includes America, got to a position of preeminence by virtue of the way it thought. The West had this thirst for knowledge that other countries did NOT have. The Chinese had a vast empire, many important inventions as well as an excellent grasp of mathematics, astronomy and ship construction, the Chinese took all these advances, and did nothing with them. The Middle East was once home to a proud, wealthy and educated Muslims who also had a vast reservoir of knowledge and a sophisticated society, and they too, didn't do a lot.

The West, on the other hand went from a backward, backwater uneducated superstitious conglomerate of countries to world dominance by virtue of their willingness to learn new things and new ways of thinking. Our number system, mathematics, the concept of zero, the compass, gunpowder and the printing press were all inventions that came from areas outside of Europe. While other parts of the world weren't terribly interested in advancing those inventions the West did with a fanactical fervor. Also, Western society went through a vast upheaval of new thought, the Renaisance, the Enlightenment and the Scientific Revolution gave birth to science, democracy and Capitalism. Merchants, those who sought to make a living through trade were giving an honored position in the West (particularly Britain). Trade was honored in the West, the Chinese, Indians (no, not those, the guys in India) and I think the Muslims didn't look on merchants favorably. In Chinese and Indian cultures a merchant was basically the scum of the Earth. It was more honorable, in their view, to go somewhere ELSE, conquer their land and take their stuff than it was to have people rise above their origins and become rich. The Self Made Man became a Western phenomenon and the self made man was honored (please note that). Anyway, with scientific advancement as well as trade the West became wealthy and with wealth came a demand for better goods. So the industrial revolution was born. With the industrial revolution came more inventions that made the West even wealthier. The technology of steam, the railroad, the steamship, advances in farming and farming equipment, factories churning out tons of goods, electricity, the lightbulb as well as the telegraph, the radio, the car the list goes on and on and on. The West flourished, while the rest of the world fell way, way behind.

So what does this mean? Why is one country "better" than another. It's not merely the land, though it did help. It's the culture. America (I'll use America as an example in place of "The West") never really gave up the idea of looking beyond its borders for new ideas and ways of thinking. Culture wise, new foods, music, art, fashion and holidays were adopted for our own. PLUS, from places like England, the idea that a man can be born in very humble origins and rise to be very successful is still a commonplace dream (though you are going to have to work hard at it). America has become a place where a child can be ANYTHING he or she wants to be, they are not locked in to a certain class only able to be friends with certain, eat certain kinds of foods or have a limited choice of proffessions. It is THAT, the intangibles that make America great.

Dammit.

Do you really believe all that very naive and self satisfactory statement ?

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
.

America has become a place where a child can be ANYTHING he or she wants to be, they are not locked in to a certain class only able to be friends with certain, eat certain kinds of foods or have a limited choice of proffessions. It is THAT, the intangibles that make America great.

Dammit.

Haha. Right. Try stepping outside, buster.

Fact is, if you're poor, chances are you're going to stay poor no matter HOW hard you work. Sure, some do succeed, but how often do we think about those who don't? If one out of a thousand people (if the number is even that large) can rise up out of poverty, what happens to those other 999 people who will never get the chance? There's a lot more than hard work that goes into it, too. If you have some friends in high places, you have a heck of a lot better chance than some poor schmuck from a tenement or a farm. And you think kids with the most basic of public school educations, who will never go to college or sometimes even never finish high school, REALLY be anything they want to be? Of course not. Even if there aren't laws locking them into their class, there might as well be for all the good it will do them.

I'll agree with sputnik. In US it's very hard to get a job unless you have friends in high places, or have a college degree, which is the reason why my parents decided to give up everything they worked for in Romania. They both went to college in Romania, and had a pretty good paying job, and yet we still had financial problems. When we came here, those college degrees weren't worth jack shit. They had to get coustodian jobs, and factory with low paying jobs... do you think that's how they planned to provide for us? My mom has kept a job for almost 3 years now, in a shitty factory and getting payed only $10/hour. My dad hasn't been able to get a job in 3 years, so we lived with what my mom made, and of course some borrowing from relatives. I worked over the summer too but I had to stop because school started. It's not the life I wanted my parents to live, but it's not like I can change that. They chose to come here because it will be better for ME.

Sputnik, if someone doesn't finish high school, that's their own damned fault. And financial aid does exist for colleges. If you have the drive, you can be nearly anything in this country. It's a helluva lot easier for the rich, granted...

Drac and Sputnik,

Geez, now you got me angry.

Sputnik. Is there favoritism in the workplace? Yes. Are their sons and daughters of "the wealthy" who WILL get set up with a cushy job once they are out of college? Yes. Does this mean that the system so discriminates against "the poor" that there may as well be laws locking them in "their place?" HELL NO!

As for you, drac. If you are so damn convinced that you will never succeed here in the States, then why oh why are you even bother TRYING to go to college. Seriously, why don't you then graduate from high school get that shitty job at that factory your mother works in, and in three years you'll be old enough to go to the local bar where you can drink beer and moan and whine with the other LOSERS about how the system is out to keep you poor and you will never make it.

I have no idea where your heads got filled with such bilge, but if you wish to succeed, you'd better get over this loser mentality you've created for yourself. The second you say you can't do a thing, you won't, and I'll guarantee that one in writing.

It would help you guys if you stop LISTENING to those who tell you you can't succeed here. My role models are Victor Bolenko, who started out as a penniless farmer in the Soviet Union and fought against all kinds of odds to become a fighter pilot (and a host of other accomplishments) and defected to the U.S. Thomas Sowell spent his entire childhood in poverty yet managed to become a College Professor and the author of several bestselling books. Bill Gates was a nerdy nobody. Rush Limbaugh got himself fired several times before making it as a talk show host. Larry Elder started out with humble origins as well. (I think)

Drac, you've said that your parents have college degrees from Romania and have had high paying jobs there. You've also stated that your father is unemployed. I know for a fact that here in Connecticut one can go to UCONN and apply for lifetime experiences credit. It's college credit for job skills you've picked up over your lifetime and can be used for a degree. Has your father even TRIED to do something like that? What's he afraid of? An 80 hour work week for the next few years? There are probably other oppurtunities out there, if you go and look.

My sister grew up poor as I did, yet she worked hard (very hard) got a scholarship to Boston College, worked hard there juggling two jobs plus college, worked hard some more and now she's married with a kid and a huge house in Massechussets. No small feat considering the housing market in that State. I encouraged one of my fellow workers to get back into college, she did got a degree with honors and is now making twice what she used to. I myself spent the entire last summer pulling down six day weeks with overtime to get a downpayment on the condo I own. Don't even bother telling me that someone can't make it here.

I'll post Larry Elder's personal pledge, it's advice that WILL help anyone who wished to be a success.

Succeed or not, but don't bother coming here and posting loser replies, I'm not interested, dammit.


Key to Success, Larry Elder's pledge (http://www.larryelder.com/pledge.html)

Simple solution. If you have a kid you are required to pay for their schooling through age 16, if you can't pay, the kid is sold off to the highest bidder. If the kid gets kicked out of school, they are sent to a stricter and more expensive school. Each time they screw up it costs the parents more money. <tongue in cheak>

People who speak english, are intellegent, willing to work hard and have a modicum of social skills can live quite comfortable here in the US. Most of the people complaining about not being able to get a job are the ones that are unwilling to start at the bottom of a company, prove themselfs and work their way up to a decent living. or they are missing one of the key componats
(speak english, intellegence, willing to work hard and have a modicum of social skills). Very few people enter the workforce making $40,000 a year and up (unless they have some special training like medical Dr.'s)

Get a job in the mail room or records department of a large company. If you are a hard worker and prove you are intellegent you will move up in the company. Most companies like to hire from within as much as posible because thery already know what they are getting when they hire an internal employee.

Start as a bank teller and move up to loans or accounts payable or whatever.

Not everyone can be a CEO.

Fact is, if you're poor, chances are you're going to stay poor no matter HOW hard you work.
And the Democrats promote this type of thinking to scare people.

what happens to those other 999 people who will never get the chance?
Is that they never "get" the chance or is it they never take the chance. You can't expect to get out of poverty without making chances for yourself.

Sputnik, if someone doesn't finish high school, that's their own damned fault. And financial aid does exist for colleges. If you have the drive, you can be nearly anything in this country. It's a helluva lot easier for the rich, granted...
White, male, borderline lower middle class, medium to decent grades in school. Not a one scholarship. Pretty much nowhere for finacial aid. And even then, it would require a job to be able to live somewhere and eat. Cutting into school work, getting more medium grades, getting nowhere.

Also, the mentality in the United States is that everybody, anybody can succeed. That is not only statistically wrong it is so unrealistic that the only way it survives is through stupid wives tales about streets paved with cheese, no cats in America.

Is that they never "get" the chance or is it they never take the chance. You can't expect to get out of poverty without making chances for yourself.
If there was not a one book in your house because you can't afford it, you start working at age 12 to provide for your family because they were in the same situation when they were young, you're born with mediocre intelligence, and you barely pass high school because you live in a very poor neighborhood with substandard schools with not enough money for materials and you were too buisy working to live to spend time on homework and studying, I think you'll be thinking differently. That happens, and more often than you think. The lowest 20% of this entire country spends more than they make. That's twenty percent of our population that cannot make enough money to survive because of countless reasons. You can't generalize that it's because they didn't try, they're lazy, they don't care. Because those aren't true. That would be what the "Republicans promote to try and reasure people".

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Drac and Sputnik,

Geez, now you got me angry.

As for you, drac. If you are so damn convinced that you will never succeed here in the States, then why oh why are you even bother TRYING to go to college. Seriously, why don't you then graduate from high school get that shitty job at that factory your mother works in, and in three years you'll be old enough to go to the local bar where you can drink beer and moan and whine with the other LOSERS about how the system is out to keep you poor and you will never make it.

I have no idea where your heads got filled with such bilge, but if you wish to succeed, you'd better get over this loser mentality you've created for yourself. The second you say you can't do a thing, you won't, and I'll guarantee that one in writing.

It would help you guys if you stop LISTENING to those who tell you you can't succeed here. My role models are Victor Bolenko, who started out as a penniless farmer in the Soviet Union and fought against all kinds of odds to become a fighter pilot (and a host of other accomplishments) and defected to the U.S. Thomas Sowell spent his entire childhood in poverty yet managed to become a College Professor and the author of several bestselling books. Bill Gates was a nerdy nobody. Rush Limbaugh got himself fired several times before making it as a talk show host. Larry Elder started out with humble origins as well. (I think)

Drac, you've said that your parents have college degrees from Romania and have had high paying jobs there. You've also stated that your father is unemployed. I know for a fact that here in Connecticut one can go to UCONN and apply for lifetime experiences credit. It's college credit for job skills you've picked up over your lifetime and can be used for a degree. Has your father even TRIED to do something like that? What's he afraid of? An 80 hour work week for the next few years? There are probably other oppurtunities out there, if you go and look.

My sister grew up poor as I did, yet she worked hard (very hard) got a scholarship to Boston College, worked hard there juggling two jobs plus college, worked hard some more and now she's married with a kid and a huge house in Massechussets. No small feat considering the housing market in that State. I encouraged one of my fellow workers to get back into college, she did got a degree with honors and is now making twice what she used to. I myself spent the entire last summer pulling down six day weeks with overtime to get a downpayment on the condo I own. Don't even bother telling me that someone can't make it here.

I'll post Larry Elder's personal pledge, it's advice that WILL help anyone who wished to be a success.

Succeed or not, but don't bother coming here and posting loser replies, I'm not interested, dammit.


Key to Success, Larry Elder's pledge (http://www.larryelder.com/pledge.html)

Ok, it seems you did not get my point here...I do believe in me succeeding. That was my point exactly, you can't do anything here WITHOUT a college degree. And I work too, just not as much as I should be, but that's because I do a sport and school. That's why we came here in the first place. As for my dad, which I did not mention (my mistake), he is taking part-time credit hours at a community college, but that's not working out so well. I mean, he gets so much money to pay for the classes, but that's still not enough. He went to this CC for about 2 years now, and he had to stop for a while because my mom was layed off from the factory...

And I ain't no damn LOSER...and I will never be...

Sputnik, if someone doesn't finish high school, that's their own damned fault. And financial aid does exist for colleges. If you have the drive, you can be nearly anything in this country. It's a helluva lot easier for the rich, granted...
White, male, borderline lower middle class, medium to decent grades in school. Not a one scholarship. Pretty much nowhere for finacial aid. And even then, it would require a job to be able to live somewhere and eat. Cutting into school work, getting more medium grades, getting nowhere.

I didn't get a scholarship either and I had great grades... But if you are willing to do more time searching that playing when online, there are the loans and aids out there. I managed to get all but 95 of my education paid. Have you talked to the college? They are willing to help, because they want paid.

This dude with the pickup truck and offensive flag sign on the back, is a total a**hole.

How does he know that people don't like his flag? Did he learn that from watching FOX, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter or one of the other Hate-radio personalities?

Do people go around telling him they are offended by his flag? I hardly think so.

This duechebag is one sick mofo that has no more in mind than to start trouble between the left and right.

Maybe someday he'll truly run into a flag hater (if they exist) and get his lights put out -- permanently ... we'll call it a blessing on society.

Dear Flag Waver,

It is wonderful to live in America, for some. The haves live a pretty nice life. They have a decent job and they go to school and pay their high bills with few complaints.
Now, there are some Americans on thin ice. People trying to stay floating who are retired: many are watching as our own Congressmen change the rules and grant takeaways on retirees.
You sign up for the Natiional Guard to get enough money to go to college and you end up in Iraq, Afghanistan, or Colombia and find out there is no limit on how long you must serve. No limit. And when you find out your VA benefits are cut, you just love America more.
But, it is a wonderful country, unless the richest world corps get more handouts from the Congress of this great Nation in the form of tax cuts. While the services Americans expect dwindle down to nothing. But, Americans still dont complain.
America is a wonderful country, until greed turns it into just another third world country. I fly my flag at half mast every day for our men and women who are being killed brutally in this war for "democracy" and the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Saintte

PS I also keep in contact with my State and Federal representatives and express my views to try to change things for the better before the greedy rich ruin it for everybody and lock every gate of opportunity, except their own.

Saintte,

What did the man from India say about coming to America? He said he wanted to live in a country where the poor people are fat. Somehow, I'm just not buying your idea that America is only for the wealthy.

PS I also keep in contact with my State and Federal representatives and express my views to try to change things for the better before the greedy rich ruin it for everybody and lock every gate of opportunity, except their own.

At least you are doing something, trying to make changes through the proper channels. If more Americans would voice there opinion to their representitives (not just bitching on message boards about how the government is out to screw them) then changes could happen.

What did the man from India say about coming to America? He said he wanted to live in a country where the poor people are fat. Somehow, I'm just not buying your idea that America is only for the wealthy.

Good point! Some people here who claim poverty but yet live in an air conditioned house or apartment, have a car, and get decent meals. While some countries more wealthy people wish they had it as good. Most Americans don't know what real poverty is like in other areas around the world.

I'm not saying there is not real poverty here. I'm not blind.

Dear Flag Waver,

Keep flying your flag. Let other know where you stand. Let our enemies know that we will do what it takes to take them out, and let our friends know that we will aid them. What did JFK say about America and spreading liberty? That it would pay any cost, bear any burden to see liberty spread throughout the world. America does pay that cost, and while the fainthearts in Europe cower over the idea of targetting an enemy that will fight back, America fights. America will not take buy comfort from the misery of others, such as what the French and the U.N. did when the oil for food scandal was going on.

Flag waver, fly your flag high. Let our troops know that this isn't the Vietnam war. They will not be spat upon when returning home, they will be honored, as they should be. Our troops are at the tip of the spear and are paying for the freedom and comfort of millions everywhere. We owe them more than we can ever repay. Our troops are in a just cause and are fighting in a just war. May God bless them.

America has liberated millions and set about making peace in the Middle East. Afghanistan wants the Americans to stay so they can start on the road to democracy. The Iraqis hold public protests against terrorist attacks and are turning terrorists in, the Iraqis have risked their lives to vote themselves a better future. The Lebonese have expressed their wish to be free from Syria and no longer be a launcing pad for Hezbollah attacks on Israel. Gadafi has seen what America can do when roused and is walking away from terrorism. All thanks to a nation that had a choice of doing what's right and doing what's easy, America chose to do what's right.

May America always choose to do what is right, rather than what is easy. America is the true backbone of freedom in the world, without us, tyranny would spread and engulf the world.

So flag waver, keep your flag flying high, there are those who are proud of our country and wish to express our pride and may God bless America.

Dammit.

GW Rules,

I know where you are coming from. On the one hand, there IS poverty and inequality here in the U.S. and it should be stamped out. There's no reason for it here.

On the other hand, America isn't quite like Rome where basically you were either filthy rich and had everything, or you were dirt poor lived in a one room hut with your family and depended on being handed bread every day by the Roman government to keep from starving.

Geez.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal

May America always choose to do what is right, rather than what is easy. America is the true backbone of freedom in the world, without us, tyranny would spread and engulf the world.


While I fully agree with your first sentence, the rest makes me hesitate between laughter and tears.
As long as the USA will support Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, the title of "true backbone of freedom in the world" will be a bit overrated, don't you think ?

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Saintte,

What did the man from India say about coming to America? He said he wanted to live in a country where the poor people are fat. Somehow, I'm just not buying your idea that America is only for the wealthy.

Yes, the poor people here are fat because they can only afford cheap, unhealthy food such as McDonald's. Then they croak from heart disease before they're even old enough to retire. Fun, fun.

Originally posted by sputnik
Yes, the poor people here are fat because they can only afford cheap, unhealthy food such as McDonald's. Then they croak from heart disease before they're even old enough to retire. Fun, fun.

It's a lot cheaper to buy food at the grocery store than it is to buy it at McDonald's. And of course you are assuming that poor people would choose healthy food, all things being equal, which is pretty naive.

http://talideon.com/images/blog/euro_vs_america-web.jpg

As long as the USA will support Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, the title of "true backbone of freedom in the world" will be a bit overrated, don't you think?
Very true.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
And of course you are assuming that poor people would choose healthy food, all things being equal, which is pretty naive.
Lionel, no disrespect here, but are you insinuating that poor people will NOT choose healthy food? When your grocery budget is $50 per week and white bread is .59 per loaf, whole grain wheat bread is $2.59 per loaf, just for instance, it's not hard to see why certain classes in America are overweight... JMO

America will not take buy comfort from the misery of others, such as what the French and the U.N. did when the oil for food scandal was going on.I think you'll find America turned a blind eye to allies such as Jordan buying oil. Not to mention the profits the carlyle group made from the iraq war. It's rather silly to pretend all Western countries don't get up to this sort of thing all the time.

May God bless them.I thought you were an atheist. Apprently I got that wrong.

I don't deny that America is a force for good as well as bad in the world. Quite frankly I can't see why some people get so all-or-nothing regarding the US. If it's a choice between America, the Soviets or China running the world then I'll take the former.

So flag waver, keep your flag flying high, there are those who are proud of our country and wish to express our prideHold on... now you sound more like those communists than I first realised.... glory be comrade!

Originally posted by saycricket
Lionel, no disrespect here, but are you insinuating that poor people will NOT choose healthy food?

Yes. Some of them might, but I don't think poor people's diets are tremendously different from rich people's diets, which is to say they eat a lot of crap. My suspicion is that to the extent people with more money eat better, it's because they want to, not because they have the money to.

Originally posted by astrapol2
While I fully agree with your first sentence, the rest makes me hesitate between laughter and tears.
As long as the USA will support Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, the title of "true backbone of freedom in the world" will be a bit overrated, don't you think ?

I think America is and has been the true backbone of freedom in the world.

Would Europe be free without America - no.

Would Iraq have free elections without the US - no

Would latin America have moved towards democracy without the US influence? - no

Would Japan be a prosperous democracy without America? - no

Would the soviet system have collapsed without the US impact on it's economy? - no.

What other nation on earth has the history or influence to promote freedom? There is no other.

Now, of course - does that mean America is a perfect backbone of freedom - no it doesn't.

Would Modern America have existed without Europe? - No.

I believe as someone once mentioned on here, We are the father and you are the son, keen to prove your worth.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Would Modern America have existed without Europe? - No.

I believe as someone once mentioned on here, We are the father and you are the son, keen to prove your worth.
Not in terms of democracy.

Democracy's roots lie in Greece. It wasn't until 2000 years later, in 1776, that it was realized yet again. The American Revolution sparked a similar revolution in France. In short, it was the United States which effectively introduced the concept of democracy to Western society, and who knows where we'd be without that.

Revolution is democracy?

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Would Modern America have existed without Europe? - No.

I believe as someone once mentioned on here, We are the father and you are the son, keen to prove your worth.

Well - true, but you could also say - Where would modern America be without sailing ships to get those people here?

That was the point i was making, it will trail backwards and backwards untill we are arguing about who found fire

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
That was the point i was making, it will trail backwards and backwards untill we are arguing about who found fire
Ug found fire! We owe our very lives to Ug!

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Ug found fire! We owe our very lives to Ug!

My understanding was that Og found fire, not Ug. Lets debate that one. It makes about as much sense.

No, you see, Oog found the fire, Og tripped and knocked Oog's flaming birch into a pile of leaves and Ug's child. Ug, burnt his hand getting the baby out. The baby tasted good and Ug declared to all who would listen the greatness of fire. That is why Ug is often credited with fire, and the lesser known Og of it also. But in reality it was Oog who discovered fire. What we can credit Ug and Og with would be the tastiness of babies, something us heathen athiests and the Satanists should appreciate.

Originally posted by Blibblob
something us heathen athiests and the Satanists should appreciate.
We heathen atheists!

And it was just a lucky chance that Oog discovered fire. Ug refined it.