Early this morning or whatever in the time that Italy is in, Pope John suffered Heart Failure. He has been sick for some time with a Urinary Tract Infection and other ailments. He is in cardiac care at the time. Heart Failure is much more serious because it means the heart has no strength to pump blood to the body. A heart attack means the heart is weakening. Heart Failure means the whole Cardiac system is failing...

I know the Anti-religion nuts or non catholics may not care, but John is more than a religous leader. He is considered a diplomat as well. This man is as calm with the dictators as he is with the church. His teachings and lectures have changed the courses of several government actions. His death will be mourned by more than his Catholic followers.

He is 84, and the longest living Pope to ever serve the Vatican.

I agree that JPII will be remembered as a major figure of the XXth century. He played a major part in the end of the communist block.
He will also be remembered as a rather conservative pope. His positions about women, Aids and his support to the most conservative parts of the catholic church attracted many critics.

Apparently his condition is quite grave at the moment. I have heard it reported that a urinary tract infection has spread to his blood, and that last rites have been administered.
It will be interesting to see how he is remembered. He had many positive accomplishments, but there were grounds for criticism of some of his positions as well. His replacement will have a lot to live up to. It will be interesting to see who the Cardinals will elevate to the position when he dies.

Although I am not Catholic, I will mourn his loss. His time in the Vatican has been served with grace, dignity, conviction, and compassion. This inspite of the scandles that have rocked the church.

I was raised Catholic, now I am Presbyterian...you can guess my opinion about the Catholic Church.
But although I think JPI is a very conservative Pope, too conservative, I have to admire his resistance against nazis and comunists. God bless his soul.

RIP JP II, you will be missed by more then you know

Reported that the pope is dead.
Wonder who will run the empire now?

dont know. do they vote for a new pope or is there one already in the wings?

News saying now that reports by Italian news that the Pope is dead was wrong. Still in serious condition, shallow breathing.

This pope was a remarkable man. He took his views world wide, via satallite and the web.
Took on world wide politics.
Had a sence of humor.
Very intelligent.

Originally posted by Travh20
dont know. do they vote for a new pope or is there one already in the wings?

As far as I know the highest level of carninals get together to choose the new pope. They consider lifestyles, dedication to the church, what they have done to promot the church and beliefs, and who has done most good for others. I could be wrong....

In my opinion, whoever they choose will not be able to overcome Pope John's shadow. He will leave a legacy that will never bo surpassed.

[insert here - a post by one of our resident idiots saying that the Pope is pure evil]

The have a secret vote for upto 13 days - there needs to be a large margin for a win & then after 13 days they go on majority vote. If any of the 130 cardinals involved tell anybody about the proceedings they are cast out of the church. Strange.

You know there is a new pope when white smoke comes out of the vatican chimney. They all do celebratory bong hits. Black smoke means they still haven't decided. The smoke is actually the burning of the ballots.

The few pics I saw of the pope of late - I think he died a few months ago. He looked like he had already been embalmed. Either that or he has had too many botox injections.

The guy did a lot of good things in the world - so my hat goes off to him for that, but he's only a man. People seems to treat him like he is god.

Originally posted by DrewM
The guy did a lot of good things in the world - so my hat goes off to him for that, but he's only a man. People seems to treat him like he is god.

Can you think of a member of any religion who has done more good? Can you think of anybody who lead a life more pure? This man was a close to God as any member of the Catholic Church. He wasn't one of the priests who played with little boys. He opened up many windows. His papacy was the most infuential. This man can be considered to the most influential man on the planet at the moment. He opened up and gained women more respect in the church,and in life in many machoist countries. He spoke out for the poor. He not only would give his blessings to those who could pay the church, but to those with nothing.

thats makes him an incredible person, not a deity. but i guess catholics would disgaree with that, what with saints, etc.

I respect all the good he has done, and I hope that he doesn't suffer too much. the process ofp icking a new pope is an interesiting one, but I guess that the non-official stuff has been going on for awhile now. my freinds grandma got a catholic newpapaer with a [picture of the pope on the front of it, and he was drooling on the bible being held up for him. he hasn't exactly been in the best of health the last couple of years....in the old days cardinals would just kill a pope in a condition like that, but thankfully they don't do that anymore.

I really, really liked this man... and as far as the Pope goes I respected him.

I disagree that he did much to help woman as far as their power within the Catholic church goes. He was too hooked on Mary and worshiping woman as pure and delicate.

But the man was intelligentsia, speaking seven languages and being able to sum up philosophers works and address their beliefs in a very succinct manner. His writing style is interesting and enjoyable.

Because he came from the second world he did not think much of us Westerners with regard to our lifestyle choices chastising us for our greediness and avarice. The man did not mince words or pussy foot with world leaders.

Neither did he seem judgmental. He forgave the man who shot him and agreed to meet with the man after he was released from jail because he wished to ask the pope's forgiveness.

I loved the fact that up until the time he was shot he was a mountain climber, a hiker, a skier, a canoeist. But most of all I love the fact that he was a poet and the gentleness of his spirit was always apparent.

Over half the population of the world have known only this man as pope in their lifetime.

He was the first to really leave the Vatican and to make himself known to the people that he led. He will be missed by Protestants and Catholics alike and even if you are an atheist his intelligence was apparent.

The next elected pope will have big shoes to fill. This gentle giant will be remembered for a long time.

May he rest in peace.

Originally posted by WhammyBar
thats makes him an incredible person, not a deity. but i guess catholics would disgaree with that, what with saints, etc.

A deity is worshipped and feared as if they have the power to alter the lives of others. But the Pope was the closest thing to a pure human soul there has been in centuries. No other human has made a such a pledge to make this world a better place. He had spunk. The second most pure and devoted to the human condition cause soul would have to be Mother Theresea.

Originally posted by cheerios
Can you think of a member of any religion who has done more good? Can you think of anybody who lead a life more pure? This man was a close to God as any member of the Catholic Church. He wasn't one of the priests who played with little boys. He opened up many windows. His papacy was the most infuential. This man can be considered to the most influential man on the planet at the moment. He opened up and gained women more respect in the church,and in life in many machoist countries. He spoke out for the poor. He not only would give his blessings to those who could pay the church, but to those with nothing.

Agree he did a lot of good things, but he ignored a lot of other things that are resulting in his church slowly dying. They can't get priests anymore. 3000 churches in the US do not have priests.

They should let them marry. Maybe then they will keep their pants zipped up when little kids are around.

He did a lot of good, but he had a lot to work with - millions of devoted followers.

The guy still sat on the toilet at the end of the day and took a shit like the rest of us, infallible demi-God or not.

Wouldn't you love to see the look on his face at the pearly gates when he realized that his beliefs were all wrong

Originally posted by DrewM
Agree he did a lot of good things, but he ignored a lot of other things that are resulting in his church slowly dying. They can't get priests anymore. 3000 churches in the US do not have priests.

They should let them marry. Maybe then they will keep their pants zipped up when little kids are around.

He did a lot of good, but he had a lot to work with - millions of devoted followers.

The guy still sat on the toilet at the end of the day and took a shit like the rest of us, infallible demi-God or not.

Wouldn't you love to see the look on his face at the pearly gates when he realized that his beliefs were all wrong

Maybe some of his beliefs are wrong. But how do you know yours are correct either? Nobody knows until the day comes that we die and learn all the secrets of the universe. I don’t agree with many teaching of Catholicism, but how can helping the sick, abused, needy, suppressed and terrorized be wrong? And he didn’t have the power to suddenly declare all the priests able to marry. Like how the Queen rules England, and has a lot of power, the Prime Minister really runs the show. In the church the Cardinals and High Bishops hold a lot of the cards. And to make a point. Married men molest children too.

But I think we all can agree he will be missed and mourned by many. Not only Christians. I read a report by a Muslim leader who says they are mourning him as well for his dedication to peace.

Damn the pope and his Pro-death agenda. He's refused a feeding tube and the best medical science has to offer. Why does he love death so much?

:banana:

I'd like to dedicate this post to Trav...

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Damn the pope and his Pro-death agenda. He's refused a feeding tube and the best medical science has to offer. Why does he love death so much?

:banana:

I'd like to dedicate this post to Trav...

I think you may be misinformed. He did have a feeding tube. Through the nose. He had Parkinsons so couldn't swallow very well.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Damn the pope and his Pro-death agenda. He's refused a feeding tube and the best medical science has to offer. Why does he love death so much?

:banana:

I'd like to dedicate this post to Trav...

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!:flowers:

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Damn the pope and his Pro-death agenda. He's refused a feeding tube and the best medical science has to offer. Why does he love death so much?

:banana:

I'd like to dedicate this post to Trav...

yes, he denied it, hew wasnt laying there unconscience and someone else denied it saying "he once told me to let him die" I dont know why your such an idiot, but I propose you get your shit together. I have said if terri shiavo had a will stating she wanted to die that would be fine, or if the husband was devoted and loving and insisted she die that would be fine. I have a problem with a husband who is fucking cheating on his "wife" making life and death decisisons when the womans PARENTS are right there saying they want to take care of her and want her to live. thats my problem. If the pope doesnt want a tube thats his call.

yes, he denied it, hew wasnt laying there unconscience and someone else denied it saying "he once told me to let him die" I dont know why your such an idiot, but I propose you get your shit together. I have said if terri shiavo had a will stating she wanted to die that would be fine, or if the husband was devoted and loving and insisted she die that would be fine. I have a problem with a husband who is fucking cheating on his "wife" making life and death decisisons when the womans PARENTS are right there saying they want to take care of her and want her to live. thats my problem. If the pope doesnt want a tube thats his call.

I agree with you on the Terri Issue. The Pope is 84 years old. He has lived his life to the fullest. He s fully aware that his God is ready to take him. Unlike Terri he is suffering. He is pain. His kidney's are failing. He can barely breathe. If you were that old and in that much pain, knowing that a feeding tube isn't what is going to keep you alive, wouldn't you deny it? A feeding tube would nurish him only to a certain extent. His body is failing. He is still conscience, and knows he is dying. So we can only pray he is taken with out any more pain. He won'tlie on a bed for 13 days slowing starving while his body shuts down. He isn't expected to make it more than tomorrow.

Originally posted by cheerios
Maybe some of his beliefs are wrong. But how do you know yours are correct either? Nobody knows until the day comes that we die and learn all the secrets of the universe. I don’t agree with many teaching of Catholicism, but how can helping the sick, abused, needy, suppressed and terrorized be wrong? And he didn’t have the power to suddenly declare all the priests able to marry. Like how the Queen rules England, and has a lot of power, the Prime Minister really runs the show. In the church the Cardinals and High Bishops hold a lot of the cards. And to make a point. Married men molest children too.

But I think we all can agree he will be missed and mourned by many. Not only Christians. I read a report by a Muslim leader who says they are mourning him as well for his dedication to peace.

I was just poking fun with the pearly gates comment - I knew somebody would bite.

fyi - the Queen does not rule England - even in a pretend way. The royals have nothing to do with how the country is goverened and have no power in that area.

I believe that there can be married priests in the Catholic church, but only if they are already married priests in another denomination and convert to Catholicism. I may be wrong on that (I don't understand this anyway!?!?!).

The funny thing is, I believe the Queen is actually the head of the church in England (under the duties of the monarchy - anyway)

Originally posted by DrewM
I was just poking fun with the pearly gates comment - I knew somebody would bite.

fyi - the Queen does not rule England - even in a pretend way. The royals have nothing to do with how the country is goverened and have no power in that area.
she is the rubber stamp that goes onevery new law that parliament passes. And she does have influence.

true - but there is no 'lets pretend she runs the country'. She is head of state but not in any form part of the government or decision making process.

She has only symbolic duties - rubber stamping being one of them. The moment she didn't rubber stamp - the stamp would be taken away from her. She has no influence on what parliment vote into law.

She is monarch only at the pleasure of parliment.

The Pope is not the ruler of the Church either. He can suggest changes, but to enact those changes, they must be put through by the ones right below him like the cardinals. Just as the Queen can suggest ideas to Parliment(though she doesn't).

Originally posted by OldPhart
I believe that there can be married priests in the Catholic church, but only if they are already married priests in another denomination and convert to Catholicism. I may be wrong on that (I don't understand this anyway!?!?!).


You're right. Also some Catholic denominations from Eastern Europe can get married. However they cannot be appointed bishops or any other higher post.

I'm not opposed to Catholic priests getting married, but due to the way the Church is run..I think the bishops and cardenals should remain unmarried. It is a matter of too much influence for a family or the possibility to create dinasties within the Church. On the other hand I think the priests who would want to be in a parish all their lifes should be married, they would understand what is real life.
It is not a matter of faith but just a tradition.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Damn the pope and his Pro-death agenda. He's refused a feeding tube and the best medical science has to offer. Why does he love death so much?

:banana:

I'd like to dedicate this post to Trav...

Que to the forum idiot Lionel was talking about.



As for Pope John Paul, his legacy will forever be, that he was not confined to one legacy. He was a man of principle, of courage, and most importantly an unmoveable faith in our lord Jesus Christ. It is sad to see such a great man leave us...but it is comforting to know that he is now in the house of the lord.

He s fully aware that his God is ready to take him. Unlike Terri he is suffering. Are you trying to say that God wasnt trying to take terri when she had a heart attack. She was only revived after like 5 minutes which is why shes a veg. Seems to me that keeping her alive is against hers and Gods wishes.

Terri couldn't communicate her will to live or die. She was oblivious to alot of what was happening to her. The Pope would have died no matter if he was been fed or not. Terri slowly starved to death.