She has died, we can all sleep easy now knowing that justice has been served

Hopefully with Mrs. Schiavo's death the families can now breathe easier, knowing that it's all over. I wish the Schindlers and Michael Schiavo the best.

DAMMIT! Now I lose a dollar... She should have surived until Sunday!

She's been dead for 15 years. Let's get over it and move on to important issues.

Human life is important any time.

man, leper decides who is alive and dead and when we should move on I guess.

Bush is scheduled to address the nation about Terri Schiavo -- but yet he still can't/won't address the nation about the troops killed in action.

Dop

Rest in peace.

I thought it very mean that the husband would not allow the parents to be present when she died. Regardless of their animosity - she was still their daughter.

Originally posted by Travh20
man, leper decides who is alive and dead and when we should move on I guess.

It amazes me how you can get your panties in a wad about one braindamaged woman, but when I post an article about the fact that scientists internationally recognize how humans have polluted or over-exploited two-thirds of the world's ecosystems, leaving all of humanity humanity in danger of starvation and water shortage (not to mention sending species into extinction at an unprecedented rate), you throw your hands in the air and dismiss it all as hopeless or "sensationalism."

You're one of the people who needs to get your priorities straight.

The right wing loonies are exploding over this and they are clearly point their fingers at GWB/Jeb. Looks to me like we may see a dem in the white house along with dem control of both chambers as fallout. The very least is ... we'll never see another Bush elected anywhere/anytime.

WOW! did the Bush brothers fuck this up or what?

ROTFLMAO

Dop

ya dop, the terri shaivo case is going to lead directly to democratic rule in all phases of government. Ther eis still plenty of time for the dems to screw up, and I have faith that they will. they will probably throw a Shiavo memorial like the old Wellstone Memorial that cost them the senate

Don't take my word for it Trav -- go over to some of the fringe right forums and check things out ... you know which ones ... the usual suspects.

Some of the sites are even talking about going off line for a while until things cool down -- like talk of taking to the streets, insurrections, killing, John Brown type crusade movements, etc etc etc. Shit, some of the militia are really boiling over. I'd recommend all democrats stay indoors for a few days. LOL

Another Timothy McVeigh on the horizon?

Man it's wild and I love it ... pass the popcorn.

ROTF

Dop

Dop,

Let me get this straight. Some poor woman with brain damage has died, and all you can see is an oppurtunity to oust Bush and the Republicans?

I've posted this before, but I'll say it again, I'm sensing quite a bit of frustration with the Left. In spite of herculean efforts by the dems all through the summer and fall of 2004 to OUST Bush and shift the Congress away from the GOP, those efforts have failed. Now, you are reduced to hoping, HOPING that some monumental mistep will topple the Bush Administration.

Dop, if you lefties have any hope, ANY hope of becoming a majority, you are going to have lay out a positive agenda.

Of course, you really can't lay out your true agenda which consists of raising taxes, redistributing wealth, outcome based education and bending over and grabbing the ankles for ALL the Euroweeny pussies and dictatorial tyrants. Those ideas won't take the Whitehouse, but at least you can try.

Originally posted by DrewM

I thought it very mean that the husband would not allow the parents to be present when she died. Regardless of their animosity - she was still their daughter. I agree completely Drew. No matter what, they are still her parents.

Originally posted by saycricket
I agree completely Drew. No matter what, they are still her parents.

I won't pass judgment. Who knows how you'd feel about it if someone, even the parents of your dead wife, had sicked all of fundamentalist America on you.

If I were in his shoes, I might be leaning toward double murder/suicide.

Yes, but... it's not about HIM. It's supposed to be about Terri and what she wanted. He could at least have had the decency to allow them to be with her during those final moments. They've been with her all this time anyway, what's the deal?

If I were you I would be leaning towards suicide too

I hope now the family healing can begin.
I expect some legislative bills to be presented that will help solve the problems we have seen arise in this situation.

He had an opportunity to show compassion. He kind of blew it by not allowing the parents to be with their dying daughter. That kind of sickens me actually.

We can guess how he feels about the parents - fine, but that should have been put aside

Originally posted by Travh20
If I were you I would be leaning towards suicide too

Spoken like a guy who truly values life:rolleyes:

In your eyes the only way for me to value life was to want this woman dead

just heard the lawyer of Micheal Shiavo give his press conference. it appears his creepy, morbid ass was in the room with Terri when she died along with her "husband" and his brother, but terris brother was booted out of the room. He did say thought that the family was allowed to spend as much time with the body as they wanted. no mention if the new wife and kids were in the room or not. The pro deathers won this one, but the fight is not over. you can only throw good judgment and common sense to the wind and win so many times.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Dop,

Let me get this straight. Some poor woman with brain damage has died, and all you can see is an oppurtunity to oust Bush and the Republicans?

Dop, if you lefties have any hope, ANY hope of becoming a majority, you are going to have lay out a positive agenda.



Tom Delay is the one that started the politicization of the TS case -- not me.

Now, sad as her death may be, TS was a living creature -- creature of god or an upright monkey ... doesn't matter ... one thing is for sure ... all living creatures die. Count on it.

Positive agenda?? All we need is paper ballots and you'll never see another republican president.

Dop

all we need to do is start dipping voters thumbs in blue ink and we will never have another democrat president.

Dop,

We did have paper ballots, remember the butterfly ballots in South Florida? 8 year old kids could figure them out and vote for their favorite Disney character, but it was beyond the reach of the Libs in Palm Beach and Dade Counties.

Oh, and travh made an excellent point, I laughed at that one.

On a more serious note, there should not be provisional ballots. Elections are held on a regular basis, and if you are so stupid as to not sign up in time, then you don't need to be voting, dammit.

Darth

Not paper butterflies ... paper ballots DAMMIT ... oops sorry, couldn't resist ... LOL

Let's look at how it's done in... Canada ... they seem to have it figured out.

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
The right wing loonies are exploding over this and they are clearly pointing their fingers at GWB/Jeb. Looks to me like we may see a dem in the white house along with dem control of both chambers as fallout.

"Fallout"........?!?!?!?!?! The rightwing loonies pointing at GW and Jeb?!?!?!?!?

You have GOT to be kidding, Dop!!!............this sorry saga will only FURTHER reinforce in the minds of the ignorant rightwingers in this country that Bush is "good" and all Democrats are "evil, Culture of Death" minions.

It matters not to the RightWing personality what actually happened, or who did what. They are unshakeably convinced, and just "know" in their hearts that --forever and ever, Amen-- Republicans/conservatives are good and "godly", and that the evil Lie-burulls are out to bring about the end of our society.

The simpleminded types who support **all things conservative** could care less what the facts are.........we've seen that demonstrated on numerous occasions.........their type first reaches a conclusion [i.e., "The Republicans will give us smaller government!", or "The Democrats are the Party of adulterers, while the Republicans are all good "family" people like us", or "Why, we had to go to Iraq to "liberate" the poor Iraqis", or "It makes no difference that there were no WMDs, the war was necessary!"] and THEN casts about for some way to rationalize and obfuscate the matter and make it somehow seem true.

The Schiavo fiasco will in the final analysis be a positive for BushCo, Dop.

In fact, I have NO doubt that they will use it as ammo to energize the dimwitted rightwing faithful come the 2008 elections.

and you will no doubt continue to underestimate the "dimwits" on the right who continually hand you your ass every election

Originally posted by Travh20
The pro deathers won this one, but the fight is not over. you can only throw good judgment and common sense to the wind and win so many times.

No, the law won this one, as would be expected.

There was no real 'fight' here - it was a delay of the law caused by appeals, followed by congress enacting an unconstitional and silly law that did nothing but create false hope & prolong the agony - all for political points.

I fail to see why you even imagine that any other outcome was possible in this case.

The only possible way to change the outcome would be to have different laws. Congress rushed in Terri's law but did not have any desire to create any new laws to impact her situation.

Given that 70% of the population agree with the husband - it's a fair guess that no law will be created to remove rights from next of kin. The only law that would impact these situations would be a law that says without a living will the person stays alive. If that's the law - fine, until them stop whining on like a girl and pretending like its some kind of crusade that could have had a different outcome. No other outcome was possible.

she could have been left alive and in the care of her parents. That is just one easy to see outcome that could have happened. I guess you place the laws of the courts abouve the laws of human rights though. thats your call. IF you place all decisions of right and wrong in the hands of the courts you will wind up the loser in the end. Not everything the court says is right.

Originally posted by Travh20
Not everything the court says is right.

Perhaps not, but it is the law...I do seem to remember you getting very upset with the mayor of San Francisco for going outside the law to do what he thought was right...

Touche', Vile...

Originally posted by Travh20
she could have been left alive and in the care of her parents. That is just one easy to see outcome that could have happened. I guess you place the laws of the courts abouve the laws of human rights though. thats your call. IF you place all decisions of right and wrong in the hands of the courts you will wind up the loser in the end. Not everything the court says is right.

Silly argument - sorry.

Yes - I place the laws over arbritary opinions. Everybody has an opinion - you, me, the guy down the street.

Right or wrong is based on personal morality - there are a million versions of what right or wrong means.

The law is there to resolve such issues. I place the law above personal opinion.

It's clear what your opinion is & it's clear what the law says. The law wins everytime - why? because it's the law.

We have a system called Congress and state legislatures that writes the laws.

We have another system called elections.

It's all very orderly and it works. Your thinking doesn't fit with our democratic system. We are not a theocracy.

Originally posted by Travh20
she could have been left alive.......

For the thousandth time, she was not "alive" in any sense of the word as it is normally applied.

When the brain is dead, the word *alive* is little but a euphemism......

She was alive - although certainly Brain dead.

Trav missed the point though. He likes to ignore any law he doesn't like. He could say he doesn't agree with the law, but respects it - but no, he suggests that the law should have been ignored.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
Perhaps not, but it is the law...I do seem to remember you getting very upset with the mayor of San Francisco for going outside the law to do what he thought was right...
Good point, Vile ;)

The law is there to resolve such issues. I place the law above personal opinion.

It's clear what your opinion is & it's clear what the law says. The law wins everytime - why? because it's the law.
I do have an issue with this though. The law is not always right. Numerous times through our history laws have been railroaded through that were dangerously unconstitutional and undemocratic. For example, Terri's law. Since the lower courts make their decisions based off of current law they can very easily be wrong. In every sense of that word. The problem would be that as long as there are politicians, there will be laws that are flat out wrong. The law can't always be followed. If so, blacks would still be segregated.

Originally posted by Travh20
She has died, we can all sleep easy now......

I hear the Conservawackos protesting outside are still demanding that the food tube be reinserted..........

......they don't believe the coroner either.

Originally posted by Freethinker
"You have GOT to be kidding, Dop!!!............this sorry saga will only FURTHER reinforce in the minds of the ignorant rightwingers in this country that Bush is "good" and all Democrats are "evil, Culture of Death" minions.

It matters not to the RightWing personality what actually happened, or who did what. They are unshakeably convinced, and just "know" in their hearts that --forever and ever, Amen-- Republicans/conservatives are good and "godly", and that the evil Lie-burulls are out to bring about the end of our society.



The real fundies (not the southern nascar bubbas) are going to make bush pay for not pushing thier agenda ... watch and see.

Dop

Geeeezzzz Dop, enough with the southerner slams already!

Originally posted by OldPhart
Geeeezzzz Dop, enough with the southerner slams already!

Seconded Dop...it is getting a bit tiresome...no NASCAR pun intended :D

Originally posted by Blibblob
The law is there to resolve such issues. I place the law above personal opinion.

It's clear what your opinion is & it's clear what the law says. The law wins everytime - why? because it's the law.
I do have an issue with this though. The law is not always right. Numerous times through our history laws have been railroaded through that were dangerously unconstitutional and undemocratic. For example, Terri's law. Since the lower courts make their decisions based off of current law they can very easily be wrong. In every sense of that word. The problem would be that as long as there are politicians, there will be laws that are flat out wrong. The law can't always be followed. If so, blacks would still be segregated.

Yes, and in each case the law was changed. It wasn't simply ignored.

He had an opportunity to show compassion. He kind of blew it by not allowing the parents to be with their dying daughter. That kind of sickens me actually.

That was the initial rumor given by the family's priest. What really happened (according to the report on The O'reilly Factor)was that the brother and sister (not the parents) were in the room with her from 7AM to 8:45AM, and Mr Sheivo was in another room when, at 8:45 the nurses came to Mr Sheivo and told him "its time, she's about to pass". When he went to the room, an argument started between him and the brother and thats when Mr Sheivo asked him to leave because he didn't want to spend the last few moments of her life in the middle of an argument. So, they were ordered to leave.

That is a lot more respectable.

One thing I've noticed thru this issue is it's the parents who seem to be always bringing this into the gutter. You never heard much from the husband.

I guess the parents were very frustrated.

Originally posted by DrewM
One thing I've noticed thru this issue is it's the parents who seem to be always bringing this into the gutter. You never heard much from the husband.

I guess the parents were very frustrated.

I mentioned this in another thread. Whether you agree with Michael Schiavo or not, he seems to have been the only one in this case who dealt with the media in the proper way, that is, he avoided them.

Let me get this straight. Some poor woman with brain damage has died, and all you can see is an oppurtunity to oust Bush and the Republicans? Darth - you are aware of the irony of this comment right?

Republicans saw a braindead woman as an oppurtunity to oust some democrats in congress and created this idiotic circus in the process.

yes, the ones who wanted her to live are the crazed lunatics who act inapropriatly. All over the media and in the forums that is the feeling being conveyed. the real pyschos want her to live, they are insane. It is just the usual liberal snobbery who see anything that they disagree with as idiotic and out of line.