Stolen from:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/29/113651/512

Very rarely does the everyday public get a glimpse of what happens behind the scenes in a normally-secret Bush Administration.

But Monday, March 28, the Secret Service called three everyday people into their offices to discuss why we were kicked out of a presidential event in Denver last week where Bush promoted his plan to privatize Social Security. What they revealed to us and our lawyer was fascinating.

There we were - three people who had personally picked up tickets from Republican Congressman Bob Beauprez's office and went to a presidential event. But as we entered, we were told that we had been "ID'ed" and were warned that any disruption would get us arrested.

After being seated in the audience we were forcibly removed before the President arrived, even though we had not been disruptive. We were shocked when told that this presidential event was a "private event" and were commanded to leave.

More astonishingly, when the Secret Service was contacted the next day they agreed to meet with us this Monday, March 28 to discuss the circumstances surrounding our removal. We had two big questions going into this meeting:

How is the Bush Administration "ID'ing" citizens before presidential events?

Why was an official taxpayer-funded event called a "private event" - leading to citizens being kicked out?

Most shocking of all, we got answers to both questions.

The Secret Service revealed that we were "ID'ed" when local Republican staffers saw a bumper sticker on the car we drove which said "No More Blood For Oil." Evidently, the free speech expressed on one bumper sticker is cause enough to eject three citizens from a presidential event. (Similarly, someone was ejected from Bush's Social Security privatization event in Arizona the same day simply for wearing a Democratic t-shirt.)

The Secret Service also revealed that ticket distribution and staffing of the Social Security event was run by the local Republican Party. They wanted us to be clear that it was a Republican staffer - not the Secret Service - who kicked us out of the presidential event. But this revealed something else that should be startling to all Americans.

After allowing taxpayers to finance his privatization events (let's call them what they really are after all,) and after using the White House communications apparatus to set them up, Bush is privatizing the ticket distribution and security staffing at his events to the Republican Party. The losers are not just taxpayers, but anyone who values the First Amendment. Under the banner of a "private event" the Republican Party is excluding citizens from seeing their president because of the lone sin of expressing the wrong idea on a bumper sticker or t-shirt. The question for Americans is - will we allow our freedom to be privatized?

Karen Bauer, Leslie Weise. Alexander Young
Denver residents

Ap did a story too - http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CO_BUSH_COLORADO_COOL-?SITE=COCOL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

So to emphasize -- the White House uses taxpayer dollars to finance these propaganda events. THEN, in order to keep out anyone who might be critical, they "outsource" ticketing and security. That way they can label the events "private" and kick out anyone they want in violation of the First Amendment.
_____________________________________

I just read that article myself;

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10969-2005Mar29.html?nav=rss_politics/administration

It seems that it was an over-zealous voluntier staffer acting on his own. The guy should face legal action (I"m not sure what charges could be filed).

Look for the trio to file suit. They should.

This is the same tactic Hitler used to quell dissent. Of course, we all know that over time he took it to several higher levels including prosecution, persecution and execution.

Dop

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla

[Evidently, the free speech expressed on one bumper sticker is cause enough to eject three citizens from a presidential event.


Yes, it is..........under a fascist government like the one we have with Bush.

Now, it may well be that GWBush is not be the textbook definition of a fascist dictator. There is a new type of fascism going on these days in the USA, and it's one of the executive (ignoramus), the legislative (those cowards in Congress), and judicial (those who originally installed the ignoramus in office). Add to that the huge multi-national Corporations, who control virtually everything, including the mainstream Media, most of which these days is pure "war-time" propaganda, and you have but a "kinder, gentler" form of fascism.

.

Originally posted by Freethinker
Yes, it is..........under a fascist government like the one we have with Bush.

:@@:

Originally posted by Overdose
:@@:

Your refutation is everything I expected it to be.

Originally posted by Freethinker
Your refutation is everything I expected it to be.

I've never had a debate with you Freethinker, because for the most part we agree on issues. So how would you expect this? Sometimes your statements blow my mind.

fas·cism

A political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual.
Although Bush does support America and puts us above everyone else, that's what I would expect any President to do. He is the leader of our country and should put us before everyone else. As for "race", I really don't see him putting whites (his race) above everyone else. Maybe on the gay marriage issue, but he didn't do that. The people in each state did...so you can't blame Bush for what the people in each state decide.

and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader
Bush was elected by the people of America, sadly. And we do have checks and balances set in place so he can't be a dictator.

severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
I don't see much economic and social regimentation that Bush is forcing...and I don't see forcible suppression of the opposition.

Remember you said
under a fascist government like the one we have with Bush.
Making it seem as if Bush was doing this..when he really isn't.

I will say it again: I would give my right arm for your knee jerks to have to live in the country you think you do for one day. you think you are so fucking oppressed, have it so bad, when in reality you are blind to what you do have. go live in a real oppressive regime, you will be begging to get back to old W's "fascist regime".

And since when did liberals appoint themselves defenders of the first ammendment for all americans? You dont defend shit exept your stupid ideas that we live in hell and ata ny minute the miltary will kick down our doors and guide us right into the showers full of Zyklon B. go read about reality and history. Bunch of soft ass pansy think they have it so bad.

Originally posted by GW_Rules
It seems that it was an over-zealous voluntier staffer acting on his own. The guy should face legal action (I"m not sure what charges could be filed).

Actually I've seen enough legit reports of similar incidents to think that it's not an isolated incident. They really don't want anyone that might question his policies at these "town hall meetings."

That being said, a local republican got his ass kicked when he showed up at a Kerry rally during the campaign, so it's not a completely one-sided issue. But I have less of an issue with that seeing as how it was a campaign meeting and not a meeting held by a sitting president.

do people who get kicked out of ANY private event file suit? No... i dont see what the big deal is.

the people who go to not cause a scene have rights too. I am tired of the left forcing us to base our lives around their first amendment rights. say what you want, but dont get all bent out of shape when someone tells you to STFU

Originally posted by Travh20
I will say it again: I would give my right arm for your knee jerks to have to live in the country you think you do for one day. you think you are so fucking oppressed, have it so bad, when in reality you are blind to what you do have. go live in a real oppressive regime, you will be begging to get back to old W's "fascist regime".

And since when did liberals appoint themselves defenders of the first ammendment for all americans? You dont defend shit exept your stupid ideas that we live in hell and ata ny minute the miltary will kick down our doors and guide us right into the showers full of Zyklon B. go read about reality and history. Bunch of soft ass pansy think they have it so bad.
Trav, can you not READ? Did OD, one of the biggest flaming liberals around (no offense), not just say that Bush is NOT fascist? How the fuck can you group all liberals together when it's patently obvious that you can't? I swear, it's like you try to be an asshole...

Originally posted by Travh20
the people who go to not cause a scene have rights too. I am tired of the left forcing us to base our lives around their first amendment rights. say what you want, but dont get all bent out of shape when someone tells you to STFU

I agree, but if Bush is using taxpayer money for this event, which he is, then he shouldn't limit it to just people that agree with him. Now if this were sponsored by some sort of conservative thinktank, that would be another matter.

they can stand outside and say whatever they want. they can not go in and start shouting slogans while the man is trying to talk. It is a matter of being considerate of others, not a first ammendment battle. Some common sense would go a long way in this matter. of course the left only cares about being the center of attention

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Trav, can you not READ? Did OD, one of the biggest flaming liberals around (no offense), not just say that Bush is NOT fascist? How the fuck can you group all liberals together when it's patently obvious that you can't? I swear, it's like you try to be an asshole...

I didnt know I mentioned overdose in this post. nor did i realize he posted the initial post.

Just because Taxpayer money is used does not mean everybody has a right to attend. The tax payer pays for Air Force 1 - does that mean I have the right to fly with the president on it...?

Seems like these guys shouldn't have been kicked out - but the article is written with a tone of underhand abuse of power. No.1 - the evidence to tie the occurance to any underhand policy is simply not there. and No.2 - so what, there is underhand use of power wherever power exists. Luckily in the US we have systems that prevent it going haywire.

Freethinker - fascist government - did you really say that?? It doesn't even merit a response - if you think that our government is fascist then you should cut back on the dope - you are smoking way too much of it.

Originally posted by DrewM

Freethinker - fascist government - did you really say that??

Yes.

It is.

There's more than one definition of *fascism*.

Mussolini stated implicitly that fascism was simply another name for Corporatism.....and it in that sense that I use the word.

I have stated on many occasions that Bush is not a *fascist dictator* in the classical sense of the word. but the system we are living uder IS --and I challege either you or OD to refute it-- very much one of Corporate control and domination.

Our government certainly IS run by Corporatism.

Please read the following, and you will see what I mean; it takes but a couple of minutes, and delineates more clearly than anything I have read in a long time why the US under Bush can and SHOULD be considered fascist.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

www.onlinejournal.com

A kinder, gentler fascism



By Carla Binion

December 17, 2000 | Classic fascism involves militarism, racism, destroying civil liberties, repressing the citizenry, crushing labor unions, deceptive propaganda and antidemocratic words and tactics. George W. Bush puts a happy face on fascistic tactics. He shows the public a compassionate conservative face, but his henchmen use brute force and propaganda to attain authoritarian goals.

For example, on November 22, a Republican-paid mob pounded on doors of the Miami-Dade County canvassing board and shoved and intimidated Democrats. The Wall Street Journal (11/27/00) reported that Bush later phoned and congratulated the mob of Brownshirts-lite.

Bush deceptively propagandizes Democrats when he puts on a front of seeking bipartisanship and unity. In reality, the Democrats he seeks as cabinet members hail from states where Republican governors would appoint their successors. If those Democrats "unify" with George W., it would alter the 50-50 split in the senate.

According to the 12/13/00 St. Petersburg Times, Republicans have earmarked money to campaign to impeach the Florida Supreme Court justices who opposed them. The Republican talk of unity and cooperation is a mask.

The classic Bertram Gross book, "Friendly Fascism," quotes economist Robert Lekachman: "Ronald Reagan must be the nicest president who ever destroyed a union and tried to cut school lunch milk rations from six to four ounces. . . Ronald Reagan is tailored to the image of a friendly fascist." It appears George W. Bush fits the image as well.

Militarism is another earmark of fascism. Vice-President-elect Dick Cheney wants to expand military spending. Let's not forget that under Reagan, from 1981 to 1985, the Pentagon's budget doubled and the secret spending for weapons increased eightfold. ("Blank Check," Tim Weiner, 1990.)

Dick Cheney may plan to follow in Reagan's footsteps. According to William D. Hartung ("And Weapons For All," Harper Collins, 1994), Cheney was a big promoter of U. S. weapons sales when he served as George H. W. Bush's Secretary of Defense.

Cheney, an architect of the Gulf War, claims he cares about U. S. troops. However, Hartung points out that during the Gulf War our troops were used to "play a mercenary role—bought and paid for by Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Japan, Germany."

Bill Grieder bolsters Hartung's view. In "Fortress America," Greider says that despite rhetoric, U. S. soldiers were used as a mercenary army to defend the royal families of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, and access to cheap oil. Greider writes that when pressed to choose between soldiers and weapons, government leaders often choose weapons, "closing bases, discharging soldiers and weakening our troop strength."

Antidemocratic views are another hallmark of fascism. During campaign 2000, many Bush supporters, including rightwing talk show propagandist Rush Limbaugh, expressed antidemocratic sentiments.

Limbaugh and other Bush supporters pushed the idea that the U. S. is a republic, not a democracy. However, we have always had democracy within the republic. In fact, America is a democratic republic, and a representative democracy.

Klaus P. Fischer in ""Nazi Germany: A New History," writes that as Hitler rose to power, "all sorts of antidemocratic ideas, articulated in bold and urgent terms by conservative pundits came thundering down on perplexed Germans from all sorts of newspapers, books and journals." The rightwing pundits in Hitler's Germany argued against political parties and elections.

The Hitler supporters said democracy was "inherently contradictory because an amorphous mass of people could not actually define goals, set policies, or literally govern itself." They claimed elitism was realistic and democracy was not. Oswald Spengler wrote that "the fundamental right of the mass to choose its own representatives remains pure theory." These Nazis suggested democracy be replaced by a military junta or another authoritarian form of government.

As Hitler rose to power, he advanced militarism, destroyed civil liberties, crushed labor unions and plotted against racial groups, however, he put on a public face of egalitarianism. As Fischer says of Hitler, he downplayed the anti-Semitic views of his party and "mimicked the role of a respectable, middle-class politician." He won over working class Germans and conservative businessmen. "In 1929 very few people knew what Hitler was really like," writes Fischer.

Joseph Goebbels served as Hitler's main propagandist, or "mythmaking genius." Just as Rush Limbaugh and other rightwing talk show hosts demean blacks and other minority groups and whip their audiences into a frenzy of hatred for liberals, Goebbels stirred up his audience's hatred for Jewish people and for opponents of Nazism.

Klaus Fischer writes that Nazi Fritz Hippler made a hate film, "Der Ewige Jude," depicting the Jewish people as "cellar rats who scurry in and out of their holes and proceed to take over the world." Today's rightwing talk show hosts do for George W. Bush what Goebbels and team did for Hitler. Just think of the amount of hatred they have generated against the Clintons and liberals in general.

While Bush and his rightwing supporters are not classic fascists, and their goals do not include a Holocaust, they have shown a tendency toward such fascist behavior as militarism, racism, destroying civil liberties, repressing the citizenry, crushing labor unions, deceptive propaganda and antidemocratic words and tactics. They are a somewhat lighter version of a very dark predecessor.

Bertram Gross suggests that the opposite of friendly fascism is real democracy, including stronger civil liberties. He quotes "The Book of Counted Sorrows:" "Evil is no faceless stranger living in a distant neighborhood. Evil has a wholesome, hometown face, with merry eyes and an open smile. Evil walks among us, wearing a mask which looks like all our faces."

Friendly fascists may talk of unity and bipartisanship while, at the same time, they work to co-opt Democratic senators and undercut the public's right to elect its representatives. They may smile and shake hands and promise to earn our trust. However, unmask the friendly fascist and you see an enemy of democracy and civil liberties. You see Hitler-with-a-happy-face, a compassionate conservative, a kinder-gentler sort of tyrant.

It would be ok for you to have an opinion that Bush is facist. But you haven't said that - you have said the US government is facist.

That is a very different thing to say.

Corporate interests are forefront in washington regardless of the President. What is lobbying?

Originally posted by DrewM
Corporate interests are forefront in washington regardless of the President. What is lobbying?

i agree.... politics is corrupt.... don't hate the player.... hate the game.

Originally posted by Travh20
they can not go in and start shouting slogans while the man is trying to talk.

Agreed, but they hadn't done that yet.

Originally posted by Freethinker
Mussolini stated implicitly that fascism was simply another name for Corporatism.....and it in that sense that I use the word.

Ah yes, Mussolini, the intellectual giant and well known student of government.

a local republican got his ass kicked I gotta see a link, tell me you got one.
Just because Taxpayer money is used does not mean everybody has a right to attend. It does if Bush is suppossed to be addressing the public. Especially if said members have tickets to the event. They were kicked out based on a bumper sticker alone. Bush is a pussy who cant handle even the slightest disagreement with his views.

++++++++++++
Heres one from tucson:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/21/174313/969
http://dailykos.com/story/2005/3/21/125132/213

You'll love this. "Saint" McCain took the stage at the event and said something like "The door is open for the Democrats to talk to us about Social Security ... but they won't!".
++++++++++++++++++

"Fascism should properly be referred to as corporatism for it refers to the situation in which corporations and the government share power." --benito mussolini

We live in a fascist state.

And if that wasnt enough here is a list of the 14 points of fascism with links to coroborate each point. quite shocking really:

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

iif they caant dind a definition of fascism that fits our government then they will make one up! dammit

Keep flailing Trav

"For the purpose of this perspective, I will consider the following regimes: Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Franco’s Spain, Salazar’s Portugal, Papadopoulos’s Greece, Pinochet’s Chile, and Suharto’s Indonesia. To be sure, they constitute a mixed bag of national identities, cultures, developmental levels, and history. But they all followed the fascist or protofascist model in obtaining, expanding, and maintaining power. Further, all these regimes have been overthrown, so a more or less complete picture of their basic characteristics and abuses is possible.

Analysis of these seven regimes reveals fourteen common threads that link them in recognizable patterns of national behavior and abuse of power. These basic characteristics are more prevalent and intense in some regimes than in others, but they all share at least some level of similarity."
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm

It doesnt magtter what the title of the government is if it's oppresive and corrupt. our government fits into that. I wouldn't call it fascism, because it isn't, but it's definitely corporatism. the american revolution was started because of the interests of businesses (taxes, tarrifs, etc.). we're basically an independent nation because it was financially helpful for the people living here in the late 1700's. whatever its called, that doesn't seem good to me.

Well - send us a postcard when you get to Utopia.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Keep flailing Trav

"For the purpose of this perspective, I will consider the following regimes: Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Franco’s Spain, Salazar’s Portugal, Papadopoulos’s Greece, Pinochet’s Chile, and Suharto’s Indonesia. To be sure, they constitute a mixed bag of national identities, cultures, developmental levels, and history. But they all followed the fascist or protofascist model in obtaining, expanding, and maintaining power. Further, all these regimes have been overthrown, so a more or less complete picture of their basic characteristics and abuses is possible.

Analysis of these seven regimes reveals fourteen common threads that link them in recognizable patterns of national behavior and abuse of power. These basic characteristics are more prevalent and intense in some regimes than in others, but they all share at least some level of similarity."
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm

you can analyze all you wat, but the reality is you can go anywhere and do almost anything you want and say whatever you want about the president and the government and go to sleep at night without having to worry about the gestapo breaking down your door and dragging you off to a camp. so ya, I am sure there are similaritys between every governemnt in history if you dig deep enough, but this fascist crap is just dumb.

Trav, dont you see that Bush and Hitler are the EXACT SAME??? I mean come on... they both... uh... rule their countries.... and they both.... ummmm... yea.

Originally posted by DrewM
Well - send us a postcard when you get to Utopia.

I have my ideals and i intend to do my best to live up to them. anything else is bullshit, and someone who beleives something but doesn't follow through with it in their actions is a hypocrite and completely intellectually dishonest. the moment u stoip beleiving something can happen, you make it impossible. call me naive, but i refuse to do that.

Originally posted by Travh20
I am sure there are similaritys between every governemnt in history if you dig deep enough, but this fascist crap is just dumb.

It does not require any "deep" digging to see that the US has become a fascist state.

I will start a thread about it.

you can analyze all you wat, but the reality is you can go anywhere and do almost anything you want and say whatever you want about the president and the government and go to sleep at night without having to worry about the gestapo breaking down your door and dragging you off to a camp. Easy for a white man to say...

There has been thousands of completely innocent Muslims who have had their door knocked down in the middle of the night be the gestopo. It easy to defend Fascism when your on the same side....