After taking an oath of enlistment this guy says he changed his mind and wants to quit the Army. As with any contract, if you decide you want to break it you have to pay a penalty. This is true inside and outside the military.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=8013564

It sound like the Army is taking the appropriate actions by reducing him in rank, making him serve the rest of his enlistment in confinement, and giving him a dishonorable discharge. The dishonorable discharge will follow him around now when he applies for future employment.

I find it interesting that he extended his enlistment for eight months at some time.

he can always state that his oath is todefend the constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic. our present government is highly unconstitutional, and it's army is also. since he can't fight either logically the best is to quit it.

I was reading in the paper the other day about a soldier from Lexington, KY trying to become a Canadian citizen in order to... maybe... become released from the contract or something...Does that sort of tie into that article?

Originally posted by heatherssocool
I was reading in the paper the other day about a soldier from Lexington, KY trying to become a Canadian citizen in order to... maybe... become released from the contract or something...Does that sort of tie into that article?

There are a handful of "soldier" who have gone to canada seeking asylum. The first was denied and I expect the rest to as well.

http://www.uslaboragainstwar.org/article.php?id=5591

All the cases that I found where a "soldier" claims to be a conscientious objector or he just desserts are young men (under the age of 25).

Despite the high profile case that these few individuals are involved in, the Army and the military as a whole support the President and the war in Iraq.

Notice numbers 8, 12 thru 16, and 25 on the following link.

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?s=1-292925-activedutytotal.php


These are the numbers straight from the troops, some of whom have been to Iraq. Number 14 seems odd to me in that in breaks from the pattern.

Originally posted by GW_Rules
"soldier" claims to be a conscientious objector

he joined !!!! he wasnt drafted. oh, its ok to join the service......UNTIL WAR !!! huh ? what a dip

Ivan,

you can dislike our president to your heart's content, but to say that that soldier can just quit because the Bush Administration is unconstitutional isn't going to fly with a military court, or with most people who have common sense.


GW_Rules,

That #14 question in that poll you linked to, I almost suspect that it's a typo. If not, then they need to listen to more Rush Limbaugh, dammit.


The way those dishonorable discharges work, from what I've heard, you are almost better off dead. You can take advantage of NONE of the Government Programs set up for G.I.s, and it's going to kill most of that soldier's job prospects from the get go. He may as well go to a job interview covered in dog doo as have a dishorable discharge, NOBODY touches those people.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal

He may as well go to a job interview covered in dog doo as have a dishorable discharge, NOBODY touches those people. [/B]


And rightfully so. Nothing pisses me off more than someone trying to back out of a obligation without just cause.

Don't get ahead of yourselfs the discharge will more then likely be changed to a general discharge. I know this from experience{people I know}, he will not have any trouble in civilian life. This isn't the 40's anymore military doesn't mean sh** today compared to yesteryear. I have even been looked down at because I was proud to bring up my honorable discharge.

Ivan were you drinking a few beers when you came up with that post :D

As Korg said " he joined he was not drafted". He was/is old enough to make is own bed now he needs to lay in it.

Originally posted by OldPhart
And rightfully so. Nothing pisses me off more than someone trying to back out of a obligation without just cause.

Tell that to Bush when he backs out of providing VA benefits to the troops and vets.

Dop

uh, guys, the amerikan government has been unconstitutional for a very long time. i spent 8 years in the military was planning on making it a career, and then one day someone suggested i read the constitution, and i began to look at the government, that's when i decided i wanted nothing more to defending an unconstitutional government. i was in the middle of a 4 year hitch, and i found a way out. honorable, but i still got out.
most soldiers DO NOT know the constitution, just like i didn't. i believe if more of them read it and looked at our government, they would either turn their weapons on the leaders to make them change, or they would find a way out.
wake up.

Not that this really has much to do with this....but there's this Army recruiter who always comes to my school- to all the senior classes- and we always have to fill out some survey that asks like height/weight/do you have any interest in ever joining the army. I made the mistake of putting somewhat interested one time. And a few weeks ago he called me and reminded me of that. I told him that I was no longer interested, but he still persisited in setting up an appointment to come to my house. He wouldn't let me say no. I came up with as many lies as I was capable of and he still got around them somehow. I was sure not to be home at the time of the appointment, but I told my mom about it so she wouldn't get shocked. And it turns out that he came and stayed at my house for like 2 hours talking to my mom and my step-dad. What the hell is the deal with Army Recruiters? Dont they take hints? (I do not mean this offensive if anyone here happens to an Army recruiter, For I have only dealt with the recruiters here)

freedom of speech, are you trying to silence him? :D thats my answer to everything from now on.

Nope. not at all. I just think he needs to educated in how to take a hint. Actually it was more than a hint. It was a yes or no question and I answered with a no, and yet, as I said before, he persisted.

Heather,

Military recruiters can be REALLY persistant, especially when it comes to filling their quotas. If you aren't interested in joining the military (not that joining the military is a bad thing) don't even look at them.


Ivan,

I'm EXTREMELY interested to know what you found in the Constitution that made a career in the miltary so repugnant. Can you provide examples??

Heather, I think they get paid for "x" number of enlistees don't they? Like a commission or something for fulfilling a quota. Don't quote me on it, but I think so.

Not only does it help their pay but it also helps them climb the ladder of rank. They are the same as car sales people tell you the best line of sh** to get the sale done no matter what you drive away with. The military can be a good thing or as some of these recruiters work it can be a bad thing. If a person is planing on joining they should get as much info as possible WITHOUT a recruiter. The recruiter is worried about his/her job 1st then the military then the actual person.

Originally posted by heatherssocool
Not that this really has much to do with this....but there's this Army recruiter who always comes to my school- to all the senior classes- and we always have to fill out some survey that asks like height/weight/do you have any interest in ever joining the army. I made the mistake of putting somewhat interested one time. And a few weeks ago he called me and reminded me of that. I told him that I was no longer interested, but he still persisited in setting up an appointment to come to my house. He wouldn't let me say no. I came up with as many lies as I was capable of and he still got around them somehow. I was sure not to be home at the time of the appointment, but I told my mom about it so she wouldn't get shocked. And it turns out that he came and stayed at my house for like 2 hours talking to my mom and my step-dad. What the hell is the deal with Army Recruiters? Dont they take hints? (I do not mean this offensive if anyone here happens to an Army recruiter, For I have only dealt with the recruiters here)


keep in mind most recruiters come from a different part of the military. such as tankers, artillery, infantry, etc.. they go for the job because of the ease of the job. if they do not make their quota they will eventually sent back to their original job.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Heather,

Ivan,

I'm EXTREMELY interested to know what you found in the Constitution that made a career in the miltary so repugnant. Can you provide examples??

article 6 paragraph 2. amerika and it's states have made treaties with the first nations and have not kept them. the u.s. broke those treaties, not the first nations. thus making them null and void. so amerikan government is governing areas they have no right to do so.
amendment 1- amerikas government OBVIOUSLY makes a preference to only christianity. it is not suppose to do this.
amendment 4- racial profiling and now with todays government this is null and void. such as, the patriot act, and homestead act.
in the past i saw the drug war having peoples doors kicked in and property seized with only a vague reference by a complete stranger or a pissed off friend, etc. givng the government reason to search and seize.
i could go on, but i won't.

Gee Ivan,

I was waiting for some big dark evil deeds that the government was up to, and all I got was bilge.

I have a somewhat hard time grasping the idea that you had to spend several years in the service before you learned that the U.S. broke treaties with the "first nations" or this idea that the freedom of religion is only meant for Christians. Racial profiling? Is that why the black middle class and scores of immigrants have made a successful life here?

Pathetic.

If you are angry about this nation, and obviously you are, you are going to have to a little more eloquent in your views to impress me.

Dammit.

Originally posted by saycricket
Heather, I think they get paid for "x" number of enlistees don't they? Like a commission or something for fulfilling a quota. Don't quote me on it, but I think so.

The recruiter pay is not based on the number of enlistments he gets. But if he does meet his/her he will get his ass chewed out. Recruiters can go up to rank fast if they are successful.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Gee Ivan,

I was waiting for some big dark evil deeds that the government was up to, and all I got was bilge.

I have a somewhat hard time grasping the idea that you had to spend several years in the service before you learned that the U.S. broke treaties with the "first nations" or this idea that the freedom of religion is only meant for Christians. Racial profiling? Is that why the black middle class and scores of immigrants have made a successful life here?

Pathetic.

If you are angry about this nation, and obviously you are, you are going to have to a little more eloquent in your views to impress me.

Dammit.

i knew about u.s. breaking treaties , but not how it effects the constitution. strike one.
racial profiling has nothing to do with success of middle class black people. it has to do with using race as an excuse to illegally search and seize. strike 2.
you drag this into a basis just to insult me. strike 3. you lose.

If that's the case, then I would think that they wouldn't want to waste their time on people who actually say that they're not interested...but they'd take that time and use it for finding more people who possibly have an interest. Even though I wrote on my survey I was interested, I told him on the phone that I changed my mind.

NCO's get a choice of being a reecruiter or a drill sergeant