In what is described as a "major policy shift", it was announced today that we are going to sell F-16's to Pakistan.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=2&u=/nm/20050325/pl_nm/southasia_fighters_dc

WTF is Bush thinking? Why would anyone think this is a good idea, unless...hmmm...maybe it has something to do with the fact that Lockheed delivered the last F-16 to be purchased by the USAF, yesterday...what an interesting coincidence. :rolleyes:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-03/25/content_2740444.htm

Nothing that idiot in the whitehouse does suprises me anymore. Contining to arm the Arab world with the right hand while the left hand is killing them off by the thousands.

Yay! We are selling weapons to a nation that deals with terrorism!

We did that with Iraq over 10 years ago. I predict 10 years from now, we will attack Pakistan (if we have a republican in the white house) for fear of them having weapons!

Originally posted by Overdose
Yay! We are selling weapons to a nation that deals with terrorism!

We did that with Iraq over 10 years ago. I predict 10 years from now, we will attack Pakistan (if we have a republican in the white house) for fear of them having weapons!

probably not. they already have nukes.

Osama is hiding in Pakastan.

The more weapons 'Sir Mixalot' spreads around the ME and Israel, the more the countries will feel emboldened, eventually resulting in more unrest, which will result in more war and give bush more ways justify the 14 military bases in Iraq and our presence to protect the oil we stole from Iraq and soon will steal from Iran.

It's all about OIL -- follow the money.

Dop

first of all pakistan is not the arab world Einstein. Secondly, I do not agree with this move either. There is no telling when some insane Mulah is going to overthrow the government of pakistan and have all those weapons at his fingertips. We can only hope that when it does happen a republican is in office so he can defeat them before the UN and the democrats appoint him secratary general :D

Originally posted by Travh20
first of all pakistan is not the arab world Einstein. Secondly, I do not agree with this move either. There is no telling when some insane Mulah is going to overthrow the government of pakistan and have all those weapons at his fingertips.

I don't agree with it either - it's probably a "reward" for Pakistan being so cooperative lately.

As far as them being used if there's a takeover - that's not a major problem. Once you stop selling them parts, that's pretty much the end of it. Iran's got an airport full of F-14s that haven't been flyable since the Iyatolla took over.

I agree. It is NOT a good idea, at this stage of the game, to go and sell one of our best fighters to Pakistan.

The F-16 is an awsome fighter. Air to Air, air to ground, it does it all.

Let's review Pakistan's record of cooperation lately. They sold not only the methods for producing nuclear weapons to Iran, but also the centrifuges to enrich the Uranium. They sold the nuclear technology to others as well, including North Korea, Libya, and possibly Al Quaeda.
They almost knew where Osama bin Laden was, but then they failed to inform us or take action themselves. He is gone now, or so they say.
These are the actions not of the Mullahs, but of the military government. The only thing they have really done to help us is to allow us the use of airfields to supply our troops in Afghanistan.
With friends like that, who needs enemies.

India. Because India got so upset with Mr. Bush, we have to sell them F16s also to counter. Of course, the aviation military complex and those working for them are very very happy.

Not right. Not at all. Something like this always comes back to bite U.S. in the ass, and then the lies and bullshit start all over again. But, hey, we gotta have our corporations making money somehow.

Originally posted by Saintte
Of course, the aviation military complex and those working for them are very very happy.

Well we can't have that!

after being on this board for 3 years I have come to the conclusion that most evil thing anyone can do on this earth is make a profit.

Just a thought.........

If we can somehow keep the old enimies, India and Pakistan, equal in conventional armament they just might not hit the nuke button.

Originally posted by Travh20
after being on this board for 3 years I have come to the conclusion that most evil thing anyone can do on this earth is make a profit.

the weird thing is making a profit almost always means someone is getting screwed over. moving jobs elsewhere to pay those workers almost nothing, raping the environment, blowing someone up, etc.. whatever happened to business ethics? oh, my bad, there's no such thing......

The planes will be a reward for assisting the U.S. in the region...positive reinforcement.
On day soon there may be some difficulties with China, and having F-16's in Pakistans hands doesn't sound that bad an idea.

The U.S. is engaging in positive reinforcement...rewarding them for assisting in an unpopular war.
China is showing signs of being difficult as well, so having these planes on Pakistani soil may give them pause.

Originally posted by Wizard
The U.S. is engaging in positive reinforcement...rewarding them for assisting in an unpopular war.
China is showing signs of being difficult as well, so having these planes on Pakistani soil may give them pause.

That's all well and good wizard, but wouldn't it make more sense to be friendly with India? If we're going to fight a war with China, I'd rather have 1 billion Hindus on my side.

After thinking about this a little bit, maybe this wasn't such a terrible idea. If we don't sell them F-16s, they'll just get some Mirages from the French of MiG 29s or Su-27s from the Russians. At least this way we control the supply of parts and can cut them off if they misbehave. Whatever that's worth.

That wont work because the US doesn't have a monopoly on it. If India and/or Pakistan so wishes it they can switch their supplier quite easily, hell, dealing with the Russians would probably be so much easier than dealing with us. If we cut their supply, or start thinking about it, the Russians will probably already of had stores just waiting and any benefit of cutting would be useless. I can't see a single hint of tactical advantage in this, it seems like nothing more than attempting to make money, and with the countries we're dealing with, a very dangerous way to make money.

Originally posted by Blibblob
That wont work because the US doesn't have a monopoly on it.

We don't have a monopoly on bombs, true, but we have a monopoly on F-16 parts. Like I said in another post, Iran has an airport full of F-14s that they haven't been able to get off the ground since the revolution. Likewise France cut off Argentina when Argentina invaded the Falklands and as the war dragged on their Mirages drifted into disrepair and their supply of Exocet missiles dwindled quickly.

Apart from being a tactical mistake, this move is completely contrary to our supposed new ideology of spreading democracy and freedom. We're selling weapons to a military dictatorship that will likely use those weapons against a free democracy (India). The more things change, the more they stay the same.

I just saw a similarity in issues.....

You guys place 100% blame on the United States if pakistan uses the weapons in an indecent manner?

You know, pakistan DOES have responsiblity, and just because we sold them the means, doesn't mean its all our fault if they go psycho.

Look at Guns in the United States.... hell, we can sell guns to watch-list terrorists, no problem. If they go and shoot up another airplane and fly it into something... is it the store's fault for selling it to the terrorist? No, its the terrorist who did the act.

I notice that many liberals support everyone having guns, even watch-list terrorists, but then bitch about us selling weapons to another country....

it kind of contradicts itself.

Originally posted by Decka
I just saw a similarity in issues.....

You guys place 100% blame on the United States if pakistan uses the weapons in an indecent manner?

You know, pakistan DOES have responsiblity, and just because we sold them the means, doesn't mean its all our fault if they go psycho.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean we should make it easier for them. Here's another similarity in issues... The Taliban weren't directly responsible for 9/11, but harbored and supported al Qaeda. Does that mean we shouldn't have held the Taliban responsible? I think not.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
WTF is Bush thinking? Why would anyone think this is a good idea? I agree but as usual I'm confused.

Thats a good one..Bush thinking..
Rational thought has met it's match..

You would think Pakistan would still be on his radar as an Axis of Evil .

We all must have some short term memory deficiency or at least A.D.D..
What ever happened to A.Q.Khan ? (http://opinionsandreasons.blogspot.com/2004/10/no-nukes-please.html)
I guess he has been forgotten...Not..
Selling nuclear materials w/o consequence.. (http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20050328&fname=natwar&sid=2)

Another thing is almost every time we supply or sell weapons they are almost always used against us at a later date.
IE..all the media footage in Iraq shows men walking down a dirt road or climbing up over an embankment with a hand held missile..where did they come from the US or Russia or China ?

What do you do..fight or don't fight..
help or don't help ?

Bush, Bin Ladin, Atta, ISI ... all in bed together ...

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/03/pearl-of-great-price.html

Dop

It pisses me off that the ISI didn't even get a slap on the wrist over 9/11, and now they're getting a pat on the back.

Apparently most of the sane countries are taking exception to our dealings with Pakistan, the country that harbors OBL and probably had it's hand in the worse terrorist event in history.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GC31Df03.html

op