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View Full Version : Two years into it, How do you score the Iraqi War?


Dunkirk101
03-17-2005, 05:43 AM
Two years in, how do you score the war?

March 17, 2005

WASHINGTON -- The list of winners and losers in the Iraq war is long -- and far from certain -- two years after the U.S. invasion this week in 2003.

The final tally may not be clear for years, as democracy takes precarious hold and an insurgency shows little sign of disappearing. Here's a look at where we stand:


Winner: Bush, re-elected despite rising troop deaths, a mounting insurgency and no evidence of weapons of mass destruction. Heavy doses of post-Sept. 11 fear overrode voter concerns about his administration's missteps in Iraq.

Loser: Sen. John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate whose stances on Iraq led Republicans to brand him a flip-flopper. He found it no easy task to oppose Bush's military campaign while supporting the troops.


Winner: Kurds and Shiites, two groups long oppressed under Saddam, will hold the strings in the new Iraqi government.

Loser: Sunni Arabs, the minority that was dominant under Saddam, will struggle to have a political voice.

Winner: Army Pfc. Jessica Lynch, the supply clerk-turned-hero whose dramatic capture and rescue made her the subject of a book and television movie.

Loser: Army Reserve Pfc. Lynndie England, whose poses in Abu Ghraib photographs made her the most recognizable face in the U.S. military's prisoner abuse scandal.


Winner: Satellite dishes, banned by Saddam, adorn rooftops and beam worldwide news into Iraqi homes.

Loser: Saddam statues, toppled across the country.


Winner: Kuwait, no longer threatened by its larger neighbor that invaded it in 1990.

Loser: Turkey, which faces a resurgent Iraqi Kurdish population that could ignite nationalism among its own Kurds.


Winner: Former chief U.N. arms inspector Hans Blix, whose insistence that Iraq lacked weapons of mass destruction turned out to be correct.

Loser: U.S. intelligence agencies, their credibility shattered by the failure to find those banned weapons. Former CIA Director George Tenet's ''slam dunk'' didn't even hit the rim.


Winner: ''We got him,'' U.S. administrator L. Paul Bremer's triumphant remark after Saddam's capture.

Loser: ''Bring 'em on,'' Bush's much criticized taunt to those attacking U.S. troops.


Winner: Iraq's Olympic committee, dismantled after Saddam's fall but reinstated in time for the Athens games and the soccer team's surprising medal run.

Loser: Odai Hussein, who under his father ran the Olympic committee and tortured underperforming athletes. He was killed with his brother, Qusai.


Winner: Iraqi media, once an organ of Saddam's Baath party. A plethora of freewheeling newspapers, radio and television stations emerged in his absence.

Loser: U.S. media, for failing to fully investigate Bush administration claims about Iraqi WMD. <end>


How you YOU feel about this? Is there anything you'd like to add? :@@:





Heres the Link: http://www.suntimes.com/output/iraq/cst-nws-itwo17.html

ivan
03-17-2005, 09:46 AM
a big waste of time, money, and resources.

Darth Be'lal
03-17-2005, 01:56 PM
One of the best things we have done in a while. I will never shed a tear when some tyrant gets what's coming to him. It seems that democracy and peace could finally have a chance to spread through the mid east instead of oppression and radical islam. Of course the future IS uncertain, but I'd rather have the U.S. try to make the world a better place than to sit back and wring our hands over all the violence that goes on in the world.

Lungdop Philing
03-18-2005, 02:44 PM
U.S. 100,000
Iraq 1500

Home team loses.

Dop

Darth Be'lal
03-18-2005, 03:07 PM
Dop,

If you are referring to civilian casualties, the figure is more like 19,000. I posted a link to the loss of civilian life in Iraq, and I tire of the grossly and iresponsibly inflated Iraqi death toll.

Dammit.

Overdose
03-18-2005, 06:57 PM
wrong. I posted a link that showed it was around 100,000. Sorry dude

Leper
03-18-2005, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by Overdose
wrong. I posted a link that showed it was around 100,000. Sorry dude

Tom Brokaw just reported the best estimate at 17K to 20K. I gotta say, 100K sounds absurdly high to me. That's how many Iraqis died in the Gulf War.

Anyways, the war was a huge waste for the U.S. Over 1500 killed, 11K soldiers injured so far for the U.S. Not to mention the enormous actual ($250 billion I believe) and future cost together with the immeasurable cost to families missing their moms and dads.

The Iraq war is far more of a disaster for the U.S. than 9/11 ever was.

korg
03-18-2005, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
One of the best things we have done in a while. I will never shed a tear when some tyrant gets what's coming to him. It seems that democracy and peace could finally have a chance to spread through the mid east instead of oppression and radical islam. Of course the future IS uncertain, but I'd rather have the U.S. try to make the world a better place than to sit back and wring our hands over all the violence that goes on in the world. if this were truly the case, then it would have been good.....IT WASN'T !!!! we weren't trying to spread anything but the wealth !!! your statement is bullshit ! if only it were true !

korg
03-18-2005, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Dop,

If you are referring to civilian casualties, the figure is more like 19,000. I posted a link to the loss of civilian life in Iraq, and I tire of the grossly and iresponsibly inflated Iraqi death toll.

Dammit. how in fuck do you know !? what makes YOU the authority on the numbers ! i tire of you bush protecting number runners !

Darth Be'lal
03-18-2005, 11:48 PM
Korg,

Is it possible for you to actually come up with a rebuttal rather than calling other people's posts "bullshit?"


Now, I'll post my link recording the body counts of Iraqis citizens yet again. The MAXIMUM number of Iraqi deaths is still below 20,000, not the 100,000 deaths pushed on us by the hard core lefties on this board. Dammit! The 100,000 death claim came as result of the Lancet report which used a projection method of figuring the death toll in Iraq. THIS site counts actually bodies.


Korg, please come back to the boards when you actually have something to say. Dammit!

Iraqi Death Toll (http://www.iraqbodycount.net/database/)

korg
03-20-2005, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Korg,



Korg, please come back to the boards when you actually have something to say. Dammit!

Iraqi Death Toll (http://www.iraqbodycount.net/database/) duhhhh......no !

korg
03-20-2005, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Korg,

Is it possible for you to actually come up with a rebuttal rather than calling other people's posts "bullshit?"


it is bullshit, because if it were true that democracy was what we wanted, then we should have gone to saudi first. they have the worst record of inhumane treatment of all the mid eastern countries......but they are asshole bush's friends.......and, it was said that saddam, as bad as he was suppose to be, had the most progressive rules and that women had more rights with him than afghan, and saudi.....bush's friends.!!!.....we went to the wrong fuckin place ! and dont give me that " saddam killed thousands of people" bullshit . we do also, its called the justice system, we have ours, they have theirs. we have killed many innocent death row inmates, and it wasnt until dna, that this was corrected. most of them found guilty, because of police plants, and bad evidence....or should i say, dirty evidence.........WHAT MAKES US SO DAMN SPECIAL, that we can call on someone elses wrong, but not clean up our own mess !??

500lbguerilla
03-20-2005, 11:27 PM
the Iraqi body count is only confirmed civilian deaths. This leaves a tremendous amount of room for error. Its basically a minimum.

The study that korg was citing was done by a group who the US has cited multiple times at UN hearings (like the rwanda genocide) yet they blow off their estimates now. They did it using a sample of around 7000 people (i think). They then used statistic to guestimate the # of deaths. They found that 8,000-200,000 civilians had been murdered. The assumption is that its probably somewhere near the middle. Hence 100,000.

But in the interests of compromise Ill split it down the middle with you. how does 60,000 murdered Iraqi civilians sound?

Funny how the US government claims to care about Iraqis sooooo much that we can risk our childrens lives to "liberate" them, but they don't care anough to keep track of how many they've murdered...