Newborn Euthanasia - Netherlands (http://http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=541&ncid=541&e=4&u=/ap/20050310/ap_on_he_me/euthanizing_newborns_4)

Euthanasia for newborns that are suffering from severe, untreatable spina bifida, with major brain and spinal cord deformities and sometimes other birth defects? "Do we have them continue life in suffering or do we end the life and end the suffering?" (Netherlands)

Here's my question, after reading this article, what are your views, if any, on this type of euthanasia in the United States? We are deeply divided on the Shiavio case, and I'm just curious about this issue. What does seem appropriate in the Netherlands is that each euthanasia case is reported to the District Attorney for their assessment.

I must admit that I didnt read the article but I feel I dont need to in order to know that I would be in favor of anything that would stop someone's suffering, esp a child who cant even tell you what is wrong. If there are no meds to help or anything else why should we allow the child or adult to keep living a miserable life? Life is unfair enough, we dont need someone telling us we dont even have the right to leave this earth when the pain is too much to bear and there is nothing left for us to do.

We euthenize our pets that are in pain or so disabled they have no quality of life.

Oh, I completely agree with you. But then, I'm an advocate for abortion also. But, NOT to the extent as it's used for birth control. I wish some type of euthanasia for adults were available in the USA (as in the Netherlands) instead of dragging family members thru the Court systems and wasting tons of money and prolonging agony.

I was just hoping to get some conservative viewpoints on this slippery slope.

Originally posted by saycricket


Euthanasia for newborns that are suffering from severe, untreatable spina bifida, with major brain and spinal cord deformities and sometimes other birth defects? "Do we have them continue life in suffering or do we end the life and end the suffering?" (Netherlands)


One thing is to stop the suffering of a person (child or adult) when they have a terminal illness and they are only expecting to die. Another thing is what they are doing in the Netherlands.
I've lived there, do you know that they only give one echo to pregnant women? only one!! at the third month, incredible that afterwards they are surprised because they have cases of major deformities. Most of my friends (foreigners) went to Belgium or Germany during their pre-natal doctor appointments.
I talk from experience, my family carries a genetic deformity which causes spinal and brain defects (due to the Irish blood we have, we don't absorb some minerals in the proper way). My sister had two pregnancies terminated due to severe deformaties in the fetuses (impossible to live with them) but they were both detected in the 4th month (when you can see in the echo the development of the neurological tube) in Spain, if she would have lived in the Netherlands those defects would have been detected at the very end, just because their public health system doesn't have money enough to give proper care for pregnant women. They even encourage to give birth at home (one colleague of mine had to convince her doctor to give birth at the hospital) and they don't give epidural shot unless you pay for it (in a public health system!!) because they say the pain is not so strong.
Really I can only think that in The Netherlands they have a lot of old people so they legalised euthanasia (they know a % is not according to the protocols) and now instead of giving proper health care, they prefer to kill new borns with deformities...they could prevent.

SOunds like a pretty sick system to me.

Originally posted by Echo2
SOunds like a pretty sick system to me.

It is. It's the only comment.
I paid over there more than 100 euros per month for my health care. I didn't have a family doctor because the ones around me were all booked (I was in a waiting list, so if someone dies or moves I (or somebody else) was next). Also some medicines were not covered by the health system. I called one day an ambulance (I had sand in my kidney) and they told me there were no free ambulances at that moment so they advice me to take my car and go to the hospital :rolleyes: likely my wife was there... it was difficult, better to say painfull.
And these are only my stories, I have heard more from friends. I just tell you that I was always waiting to go to Spain to have my check-ups and my wife refused to have a baby in that country.

This, folks, is why socialized medicine tends not to work.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
This, folks, is why socialized medicine tends not to work.

It can and does work in many countries. But I seriously doubt that our government has the smarts or the ability to make it work here. It is just too bogged down in beauracratic nonsense, people protecting their jobs and political power plays.

Originally posted by Echo2
It can and does work in many countries. But I seriously doubt that our government has the smarts or the ability to make it work here. It is just too bogged down in beauracratic nonsense, people protecting their jobs and political power plays.
Actually, I agree. In smaller countries, I'm sure it could work, and well. Not here or in most developed countries, though. Health care is just too darned expensive, and as you said, governments are corrupt and far too big. Imagine the paperwork you'd have to fill out if the government ran hospitals...

Originally posted by Echo2
It can and does work in many countries. But I seriously doubt that our government has the smarts or the ability to make it work here. It is just too bogged down in beauracratic nonsense, people protecting their jobs and political power plays.

That's my main objection. Despite having strong libertarian leanings, I'm not opposed to government run health care in principle, I'm opposed to it because our government sucks at almost everything it does.

Originally posted by Echo2
It can and does work in many countries.

Actually I think socialized healthcare doesn't work in many countries at all. I can talk about Europe, maybe in Canada they discovered the perfect system.
In Europe no country has a perfect system. In Spain they have good professionals but the resources are not enough, specially in big cities, too many people. I have examples but I don't want to bore you.
In United Kingdom they have to send the elderly to other countries for simple surgery as hip replacements because of the waiting lists.
In Germany and Belgium they have good private hospitals, so the people how can pay they go there. I don't know about France and Italy but I would expect similarities.
Also if there is any malpractice in those countries you are not suing a doctor, you sue the state so very few cases win some compensation for medical malpractice.
I don't think a totally private systems is the answer either, but the socialized system is over-rated among liberals in the US.

Originally posted by Teddy
Actually I think socialized healthcare doesn't work in many countries at all. I can talk about Europe, maybe in Canada they discovered the perfect system. [

Nah it isn't perfect here either. In fact it is deteriorating badly...but it is still one of the best systems in the world.

Now that we are becoming more politically sophisticated they will find a way to ruin it. Although I lean slightly left I am starting the endorse the two-tiered health system which is a shame really. Theoretically a two tiered system is supposed to free up public hospital resources because those who can afford to pay will go private. In reality what will really happen is that it will cater to the rich who can afford to pay and the poor will receive inferior service.


The waste in our hospitals here is abysmal. They do studies which cost a fortune in order to implement new cost savings methods only to scrap them down the road after millions have been wasted.

But it still works for now.

If you get sick you to head to the hospital and have your surgery (even if you have a bit of a wait) and it won't bankrupt you.

Sorry to post this topic and then not reply guys...I've been up to my eyeballs.

Teddy, it sounds as if the Netherlands needs some work on their health care. That being said, I am so sorry to hear about your sister's pregnancy problems too. That sucks. Been there, done that myself.

Originally posted by saycricket
That being said, I am so sorry to hear about your sister's pregnancy problems too. That sucks. Been there, done that myself.

Thanks Saycricket.
She has already a daughter but they are desperate to have more children, at least one more.
Thanks God there is a very simple solution to the problem (with a good % of sucess or healthy babies), but they didn't realise about the genetic illness until a couple of years ago, now all my family is being tested to find that (among others which can also been involved) gene.