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DracRomin
03-08-2005, 09:14 PM
I was just browsing online and I came upon this ver interesting article. I just wanted to see your opinions and thoughts on it.

Economists want to know: Do Europeans work less because they believe less in God?

A century ago, German sociologist Max Weber put forth a novel theory of economic growth. In "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism," Mr. Weber argued that Calvinist ideals fostered a disciplined work-and-save attitude that accelerated the creation of wealth. The implication - that Protestant economies outperform Catholic ones - has drawn skepticism ever since.

But today, researchers are reexamining whether there might be a link between religious belief and economic performance.

In a 2003 study of nearly 60 countries, Harvard researchers Robert Barro and Rachel McCleary found that certain religious beliefs did contribute to economic growth. Notably, they concluded that a belief in hell was a slightly more potent economic spur than a belief in heaven.

Last year, Niall Ferguson, a professor of history at Harvard University, examined the connections between faith and work ethic in light of divergent trends he found in the United States and Europe.

Religious belief in North America has "been amazingly resilient" amid big economic gains, he says, disputing the notion that wealthier countries necessarily become less religious.

But abroad, Ferguson noted that a decline in European working hours coincided with a decline in faith. "Americans don't in fact do better work than Frenchmen," he wrote. "They just do more work. A lot more." Between 1979 and 1999, the average US working year lengthened by nearly 4 percent. Yet in Germany, France, and Spain, that figure dropped by at least 10 percent. "Europeans now seem to believe in holidays, not in holy days," he adds.

This divergence, Ferguson, argues, coincides with a period of European de-Christianization, and American re-Christianization. "It's extremely hard to establish a causal relationship between changes in belief and changes in economic behavior," he cautions. But, he says, "something of Weber's theory seems to work."

Material prosperity, of course, is not the point of most religious teachings. And religion is clearly not the sole determinant of economic performance. China's official atheism hasn't stopped its rapid gains. Growth has been weaker in Muslim nations, where belief in potential damnation is high. And Ferguson notes that previous generations of Americans emphasized high levels of saving. Today, he says, they "work very hard in order to consume very hard."

BorgHunter
03-08-2005, 09:19 PM
The theory that religion is connected to economic development seems to me to be ignoring a common cause (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ignoring-a-common-cause.html), at least at this point. Have other characteristics of the countries been studied? Maybe it's the fact that the poorer people are more religious, and poorer people have to work more to survive? I think the study is somewhat incomplete. Interesting topic, though.

STOpandthink
03-08-2005, 09:31 PM
I agree with BorgHunter. Those kind of studies are hard to perform because there are wayyyyy to many variables to account for.
Though, I suppose, Christians do worry less about saving money. (Since we go to Heaven anyways) But wait, doesn't that contradict the study? I am confused!

~Sal~
03-08-2005, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by BorgHunter
The theory that religion is connected to economic development seems to me to be ignoring a common cause (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ignoring-a-common-cause.html), at least at this point. Have other characteristics of the countries been studied? Maybe it's the fact that the poorer people are more religious, and poorer people have to work more to survive? I think the study is somewhat incomplete. Interesting topic, though.

But multi-millionaires work incredibly long hours compared to the general population so your theory would not hold because they would put in as many hours as those working hard to maintain a subsistent living.

Also one would need to take some of the top money makers in the world to see if they were non-believers which you have assumed and that may or may not be true.

It is an interesting theory because it would imply the attitude would be live high now because this is it. Kind of a pointless existance but I can see how that would be very motivating.

Of course all of us hedonists regardless of religious beliefs would skew the stats.:cool:

LionelHutz
03-08-2005, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by BorgHunter
The theory that religion is connected to economic development seems to me to be ignoring a common cause (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ignoring-a-common-cause.html),

Did you take a class in logic or something? Not only do you point out the fallacy, but you always provide the exact name too. :)

BorgHunter
03-09-2005, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by LionelHutz
Did you take a class in logic or something? Not only do you point out the fallacy, but you always provide the exact name too. :)
I have that fallacy site bookmarked. I only remember the names of Slippery Slope, Red Herring, Straw Man, Ignoring a Common Cause and Post Hoc. The rest I usually look up. And I never took a class on this or anything. All my debating skills and such are self-learned.
Originally posted by ~Sal~
Also one would need to take some of the top money makers in the world to see if they were non-believers which you have assumed and that may or may not be true.
What? I never assumed that. I was pointing out that there could be other causes for the observed data than religion. I never said anything about what rich people believe.