A note about the US death toll in Iraq reaching 1500 last week. According to icasualties.org, it took 295 days to reach the mark of 500 U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq, a further 242 days to reach the 1000 mark, and a further 177 days to reach the 1500 mark. Our brave men and women in uniform are dying in Iraq at an increasing - and alarming - rate, yet there is little mention of their plight in the American media these days. I saw the documentary Gunner Palace last week, which chronicles the lives of American soldiers in Baghdad in their own words, with very little commentary by the filmmaker. So this is my personal plug - I highly recommend the movie to anyone who is interested in finding out how our troops are really living, fighting and dying over there. Especially since the corporate media, who cheered these young men and women into Iraq on a wave of trumped-up patriotism, appear to have forgotten about them entirely.

There was a press release this morning where a military dude (general?) stated we had lost the minute we invaded.

I'll try to find a link.

Dop

Yes dop,

The U.S. lost the minute we invaded Iraq. And Iraq was a quagmire, some five days into the war. And Baghdad Bob was telling the truth when he said that U.S. troops were hundreds of miles away from Baghdad and would never enter Baghdad itself. :rolleyes:

wow, a minute ago Echo was saying our regular troops would shoot their own chidren if ordered to, now they are brave soldiers. make up your mind echo.

Pay attention trav. The troops in Iraq are about 85% National guard. They are not "regular army". And if you must refer to my posts please use EXACT quotes and not some twisted republican version of what I wrote.

Darth

Relax, get a grip -- I'm only the messenger on that one.

Dop

Originally posted by Echo2
Pay attention trav. The troops in Iraq are about 85% National guard. They are not "regular army". And if you must refer to my posts please use EXACT quotes and not some twisted republican version of what I wrote.

one day echo you will learn to either stop trusting your crappy sources or stop shooting your mouth off

Army/Reserve Component Distribution
OIF Active Reserve
1 75% 25%
2 61% 39%
3 57-58% 42-43%

SOURCE:





http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_orbat.htm http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_orbat.htm

Echo, you are a typical liberal, spouts of a bunch of "facts" expecting us to just believe them without question then when shown that they are wrong they duck out and we are expected to forget all about it the next time they want us to believe something they just pull out of thin air. Like the "85% of troops in iraq are national guard" lie.

I will predict if this thread is replied to by any liberals, the only thing they will comment on is the word "typical"

Army National Guard/Reserve Troop Numbers
OIF----National Guard---- Reserve
2------- 33,000 -------------20,000
3------- 37,000 -------------17,000

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milit.../iraq_orbat.htm

Same source.

what in the name of holy hell? you are completly retarded. I know you think if you act like you know what you are talking about you may be able to make some people believe that you do, but come on! go back, look at that again, and tell me what you think it means. because what you just posted means absolutly nothing when you use it to prove your 85% argument. that is a break down of national guard VS reserves as it relates to each other, the "regualr" army it has nothing to do with thse numbers you posted. nice try though. just admit you dont know what you are talking about and move on.

Originally posted by Travh20
I will predict if this thread is replied to by any liberals, the only thing they will comment on is the word "typical"
Gee........I hope I don't break-your-heart with the words ACTUAL NUMBERS (http://icasualties.org/oif/), instead.

http://home.comcast.net/%7Ewizardofwhimsy/golfanyone.jpg

How 'bout The DRAFT (http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=27620) (i.e. forced-servitude). Are those words any more acceptible than "typical"??? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Echo2
men and women in uniform are dying in Iraq at an increasing - and alarming - rate, yet there is little mention of their plight in the American media these days.

No surprise there.

The Corporate-owned, Corporate-controlled mainstream Media is not allowed to air reports that reflect badly on the Conserva-Fascist leadership.

Same reason in our "free speech" society no one from the Press is allowed to publish pictures of the hundreds upon hundreds of flag-draped caskets the dead are returned home in; ---might cause the sheep to be fretful or to begin questioning things.

The herd might get so upset they forget to make the trip to Wal-Mart or Costco.

_______________________________

The essential problem is that Americans have been lying to themselves for so many years now that they are completely incapable of telling the difference between the rather frightening truth and their mythological view of America. The lies are so deeply ingrained into American thought that the vast majority of the population apparently is incapable of seeing that there is anything wrong, meaning that there is no possibility of change.

The invisible wounded
Injured soldiers evacuated to the U.S. never arrive in the light of day -- and the Pentagon has yet to offer a satisfactory explanation why.

It's widely known that on the eve of the Iraq invasion in 2003, the Bush administration moved to defy the math and enforced a ban on photographs of the caskets arriving at Dover, or at any other military bases. But few realize that it seems to be pursuing the same strategy with the wounded, who are far more numerous. Since 9/11, the Pentagon's Transportation Command has medevaced 24,772 patients from battlefields, mostly from Iraq. But two years after the invasion of Iraq, images of wounded troops arriving in the United States are almost as hard to find as pictures of caskets from Dover. That's because all the transport is done literally in the dark, and in most cases, photos are banned.

http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news2/salon55.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++
24,000 wounded.

Anyone see the Army hospital they just built for amputees. They wanaa start sending them back into combat.

"CRIPPLE FIGHT!!!"

posted by 500lbGuerilla Anyone see the Army hospital they just built for amputees. They wanaa start sending them back into combat.

"CRIPPLE FIGHT!!!" You know what, you ungrateful piece of shit - that remark was in EXTREMELY poor taste.

Its from south park and was meant to be so.

I think murdering innocent people based on a lie is extremely poor taste, so deal.

I know it's from south park, you piece of crap. But given the circumstance of the posting, you deserve to have your ass kicked. And, if you haven't had one in a while, I'd love to introduce you to my little friends.

Zieg hail you facist fuck. My you seem to like violence.

Maybe you should blame the person who got them crippled and killed in the first place if youre so touchy about it. God forbid I share my opinions about the horrendous actions being taken by our government.

I'd love to introduce you to my little friends So double amputees below the knee caps then?

No not double amputees... JFC. (Yes that was funny, BUT, it was still uncalled for.) It was a shitty remark given the fact that soldiers have lost their limbs (fighting this frigged up war) while you sit here in the States in your nice comfortable home with your family talking shit and making jokes.

Hey they could have deserted or sat in their homes comfortably if they didnt join the army. They made themselves a tool of violence dedicated to serving the whim of buearacrats. If they think this war is illegal or unjustified the oath they take says they have the right to resist it.

I understand helping people who have made mistakes. We have held many a protest at the recruiting stations and the military base holding signs for:
girights.org

We get yelled at all the time and some fake gun motions.

If soilders truely disagree with what they are doing there is plenty of support for them. Unfortunatly most of them would rather carry out immoral actions against innocent people than risk jail or canada.

One of my friends was lucky he got out of the military with a honorable discharge right before 9-11.

Wow Guerilla, so much for enlisting in the first place. Unfortunatly most of them would rather carry out immoral actions against innocent people than risk jail or canada. Probaby a good thing that EVERYONE doesn't share your belief. Otherwise, where do you think this Country would be if we didn't have a military when we fought for our freedom from England?

I agree with you, though, that if this Iraq war is a war that makes them feel that they are being made to risk their lives for something they do not believe in, then they should find the help that they need to get out. No questions asked. If the pharmacists can do it, then it should also be okay for soldiers/sailors.

However, you say "Death Machine". Not everyone thinks of the military as being a death machine. I would dare say that most of those that do enlist don't think of it that way. They think of it as a way to serve their Country, make money, learn a trade, see the world, etc.

The way you describe our military as a whole makes me shudder. If you think that our military is nothing but a tool of violence and you are so opposed to it, perhaps you should leave and move to Canada. Or, move to the Caribbean, don a grass skirt, smile sweetly and pour coconut flavored drinks to the rich tourists.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Zieg hail you facist fuck. My you seem to like violence.
She most certainly IS NOT a "fascist fuck".

Okay, I've been thinking about this, and you need a better name than 500lbguerilla. Considering the fact that your heart bleeds a darker shade of red than crimson, you'll need a super strong liberal name (I know...you're not a liberal, blah, blah, blah)...I'm thinking it should be something powerful, something unique, something heartfelt, something…Indian. Yeah, from now on your new Indian name is "Broken Penis - Talking shit".

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla

Maybe you should blame the person who got them crippled and killed in the first place

um....isnt that themselves? since they are the ones who volunteered to sign up for the armed forces?(well not volunteer..they get paid well and get lots of benefits)

A 24 year old man(E-6 infantry National Guard) at work just re-uped to take a second tour in Iraq. Leaves in December.
No one forced him. He was there one year and was in the first charge for Baghdad.
Two other friends are in training now to go(volunteers).
I am proud to know these men of great intestinal fortitude.
We have a lot in common.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
A 24 year old man(E-6 infantry National Guard) at work just re-uped to take a second tour in Iraq. Leaves in December.....
I am proud to know these men of great intestinal fortitude......
We have a lot in common.

I feel sorry for all three of you, that you are putting [or are willing to] your life on the liine, sadly oblivious to the fact that the "war" you're fighting is a war based totally on lies, that is being waged for the purpose of enriching powerful and wealthy Defense and Petroleum industry interests.

I am even more disturbed by the fact that the Corporate State propaganda machine is able to convince not just you but millions of other ostensibly rational citizens to do the same.

I am sick of these idiots lecturing us on the horrors of war. They never spent a day in a uniform or in any danger whatsoever yet becasue they have an internet connection they are suddenly the experts in the subject. take your stat sheets and internet links and shove em you chicken shit cowards. just because you think there is nothing in life worth fighting for doesnt mean no one else does.

Originally posted by Freethinker
I feel sorry for all three of you, that you are putting [or are willing to] your life on the liine, sadly oblivious to the fact that the "war" you're fighting is a war based totally on lies, that is being waged for the purpose of enriching powerful and wealthy Defense and Petroleum industry interests.

I am even more disturbed by the fact that the Corporate State propaganda machine is able to convince not just you but millions of other ostensibly rational citizens to do the same.

maybe you are the one is is wrong smart guy, ever think of that?.

The links usually link to people who do have the experience.

maybe you are the one is is wrong smart guy, ever think of that?. Even if he is (which he isnt) at least hed still be alive to learn from his mistake...

She most certainly IS NOT a "fascist fuck". Anyone who justifies violence as a response to a difference of opinion is.

I am sick of these idiots lecturing us on the horrors of war. They never spent a day in a uniform or in any danger whatsoever yet becasue they have an internet connection they are suddenly the experts in the subject Oh please do tell of how great it is to be in war trav...were waiting?

take your stat sheets and internet links and shove em you chicken shit cowards. just because you think there is nothing in life worth fighting for doesnt mean no one else does.
Translation "I dont care about facts and youre a poop face"

I sorry did anyone in here say that they thought self defence was wrong? Nope, no one. Thanks. We just dont believe in dying for lies that always change when they become obvious. I would gladly fight for something I believe in and Im sure others in here would too.

isnt that themselves? since they are the ones who volunteered to sign up for the armed forces? Well, it half their fault and half BushCos. They joined under the belief that they wouldnt be needlessly shipped off to die for big business. Unfortunatly they arent very good at doing their homework since every military aventure in US history was about making money.
However when and if they realize that they are Coporate tools of violence then they have a moral obligation to remove themselves from that system.

Originally posted by saycricket
No not double amputees... JFC. (Yes that was funny, BUT, it was still uncalled for.) It was a shitty remark given the fact that soldiers have lost their limbs (fighting this frigged up war) while you sit here in the States in your nice comfortable home with your family talking shit and making jokes.
......Much like the Chickenhawk Bush-clan.

Originally posted by Travh20
I am sick of these idiots lecturing us on the horrors of war. They never spent a day in a uniform or in any danger whatsoever......
Gee.........you mean (like) our Chickenhawk-In-Chief??????? (http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html)


http://www.mind.net/basile/dubyacard.jpg

A Breeding Ground For Tyrants

by Michael Gaddy (an Army veteran of Vietnam, Grenada, and Beirut, lives in the Four Corners area of the American Southwest.)

The irritating sound of a ringing phone brought me roughly back to reality. I had been lost in the serenity of the snow-covered peaks of the La Plata and San Juan Mountains of Southern Colorado. At first, there was no immediate response to my hello. I thought it a call from a telemarketer, but after the pause, was delighted to hear the voice of a damn good soldier I have known for over two decades, who is on his second tour in Iraq. His response to my question of what was going on over there now, still assaults my conscience: "Well, this morning our unit went out and shot up a bunch of civilians and our commander is writing it up as a great military victory."

Contiued... http://www.lewrockwell.com/gaddy/gaddy15.html

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
They (the people who volunteered to sign up for the armed forces) joined under the belief that they wouldnt be needlessly shipped off to die for big business.

If so, they were --to put it mildly-- laboring under a misapprehension.

The U.S. Miilitary is not being maintanied to protect the United States, and CERTAINLY not to help foster 'democracy' throughout the world. The U.S. Military, as it is being utilized by the extreme RightWing faction in power at present, is simply a tool with which to enforce the right of capitalist corporations to exploit resources and labor throughout the rest of the world. The US military is policing the planet for a fascist superpower.

Fascism is the name of this game; it is the use of governmental power to protect and further the goals of the Corporate State with no concern whatsoever for the social welfare or well-being of people in other countries. George W. Bush is probably the most successful fascist in history.