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Echo2
03-08-2005, 01:12 PM
March 8, 2005
By Ernest Partridge, The Crisis Papers

No question about it: We the People of the United States are now sharply divided into two hostile political factions, variously labeled as "liberal vs. conservative," "left vs. right," and (my preferred designation), "progressive vs. regressive." Let a stranger utter just a couple of sentences of political opinion, and you will usually have a pretty good idea with which faction he identifies himself.

(There is a third part of our population, perhaps the largest: the apolitical. When asked the question, "what do you think of the political ignorance and apathy of the American public?" they will likely reply "I don't know and I don't care.")

The ongoing political debate in our country exemplifies one of the most remarkable paradoxes of language: namely, that while we routinely use abstract words without difficulty and are well understood when we do – such abstract words as "love," "beauty," "justice," "freedom" – we find it very difficult to define them, when challenged to do so.

This paradox is well known to philosophers. For example, Plato wrote at length about all the above concepts, and often came to no firm conclusion. In fact his best known work, The Republic, is a book-length attempt to define "justice."

In this essay, I will attempt the difficult task of defining "The Right" and "The Left" (and its synonyms) – concepts which are employed in public discourse with little apparent difficulty. In this brief space, I can only offer a grossly over-simplified analysis and some unqualified generalizations – a first approximation. For when we scrupulously examine the polar political concepts of Right and Left as they are used today, we encounter a great deal of vagueness, ambiguity, and even contradiction. Thus, after I have set down my ten brief and simplified distinguishing elements of liberalism and (so-called) conservatism, it is necessary that I offer five qualifications.

One final note, before we proceed: in this analysis, I will use the contrasting terms "Right vs. Left" and "progressive vs. regressive." However, I will avoid the terms "conservative" and "liberal." As I have argued elsewhere (here and here), the word "conservative," in its traditional sense, simply does not correctly apply to the contemporary policies of The Right. As for "liberal," that word has been so abused by decades of assault from the right, that it no longer serves to communicate its original meaning.

I propose the following ten pairs of distinguishing characteristics of The Right and The Left.

1. Is society a collection of private individuals or is it a community?

The Right: Society is an aggregate of self-interested individuals. Associations within the society are personal and voluntary. Social progress issues from private, self-interested behavior. Strictly speaking: "there is no such thing as society – there are individuals and there are families." (Margaret Thatcher). "Good for each, good for all; bad for each, bad for all."

The Left: Society is a community: "a cooperative venture for mutual advantage [which] makes possible a better life for all than any would have if each were to live solely by his own efforts." (John Rawls, A Theory of Justice, p. 4) Common goods are achieved through individual constraint and sacrifice. "Good for Each, Bad for all; Bad for each, good for all."

2. Cui Bono? Who are the beneficiaries of the policies?

The Right: A "Master Morality" (the term is from Nietzsche). Policies and rules are designed to benefit the wealthy and powerful few who own and control national wealth at the expense of the masses who produce the wealth. For example: George W. Bush's 2006 Budget Proposal and his tax "reforms."

The Left: A Social-Democratic Morality. Policies and rules are designed to result in the greatest good for the greatest number in a regime of "equal justice under law." Examples: FDR's New Deal and LBJ's Great Society.

3. What is the function of government?

The Right: The function of government is to protect the fundamental rights of life, liberty and property – nothing more. "Government is not the Solution." (Ronald Reagan, 1981). "Government is the most dangerous institution known to man." (John Hospers). "Who is best qualified to spend your money? You, or the government?" (George W. Bush).

The Left: Government "of, by, and for the people" is a legitimate surrogate of the people's interests and a protector of the people's rights. "To secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the government." (Declaration of Independence, 1776). Citizens must constantly be on guard against abuses of office. However, the answer to bad government is better government, not the abolition of government.

4. What are the justifications for taxation?

The Right (i.e., the Libertarian faction): Taxes for any purpose other than the protection of individual rights to life, liberty and property, are a theft of personal property. (But for the religious right, tax revenue may also expended to compel private morality).

The Left: Taxes are legitimate dues that we pay for civilized society. (Oliver Wendell Holmes). Taxes can be legitimately levied to support such community goods as education, the arts, national parks, basic research, and physical infrastructure. In general, to "establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity." (Preamble, Constitution of the United States).

5. What is the function of free markets in society?

The Right: Social problems can best be solved through the unconstrained action of free markets. Private initiative and privatization of property produces results superior to government action. (Maslow's Rule: to a carpenter, all problems can be solved with a hammer. Corollary: to The Right, all problems can be solved by the free market).

The Left: Privatization and free markets, while valuable ingredients of society, must not be absolutes. They must be regulated for the common good by agencies of popular government. Unregulated free markets are self-eliminating, for their natural tendency is toward monopolies and the end of competition. Thus the necessity of anti-trust regulation.

6. Is wealth generated in society from the top down ("trickle down") or from the bottom-up ("percolate up")?

The Right: "Trickle-down." Prosperity results from investment by the wealthy. "The rising tide lifts all boats." "I never was given a job by a poor man." (Sen. Phil Gramm).
The Left: Wealth "percolates up" from the labor and innovation of an educated work-force.

7. What is the role of language in society and politics?

The Right: Language is a political weapon, to be "shaped" to the advantage of the ruling elites. "Newspeak" in George Orwell's 1984 shows the way. (See "Newspeak Lives!" and "The Language Trap.")

The Left: Language is the primary ("keystone") social institution. The distortion of language leads to social disorder, public alienation from politics, and economic inefficiency. In other words, the left takes an authentically "conservative" view of language.

8. How are human conduct and society morally evaluated?

The Right: Simple, dualistic view of human nature, morality, society and social problems. ("You are either with us or against us." G. W. Bush).

The Left: Complex view of human nature, morality, society and social problems. Rules and principles often conflict and must be "bent" to accommodate circumstances. (The Religious Right derides this as "situation ethics" and "moral relativism").

9. Political methodology.

The Right: Dogmatic approach to policy. "Top down:" unyielding principles applied to particular circumstances. "Unconfused by the facts."

The Left: Pragmatic and empirical. "Reality based:" i.e., willing to be "instructed" by the real world. Principles adapted in the face of newly discovered facts and newly invented technology. Policies are tried, and if they fail, are revised or even abandoned.

10. Moral perspective:

The Right: Egocentric point of view. Society viewed and evaluated through "the mind's I." The interests of the individual are supreme.

The Left: Moral point of view. Society viewed and evaluated from the perspective of the "ideal observer" of the society as a whole, without advantage accorded any individual unless that advantage works to the benefit of all. (Equal opportunity, blind justice).

From these elements arise the contrasting policies of The Right and The Left, regarding such issues as the minimum wage, Social Security, worker protection, legal liability (torts), and environmental protection.

Some qualifications:

1. Political opinion is in fact distributed along a continuum – a spectrum – thus between the extreme Right and Left are the centrists and moderates. Because the above list suggests a polar dichotomy of political opinion, it is a distortion.

2. Accordingly, these elements are not defining characteristics, rather they are symptoms. (Defining characteristics are attributes that something must have for a word to correctly apply to it. For example, "unmarried," "adult" and "male" are defining characteristics of the word "bachelor.") Because these elements are not defining, a "progressive" or a "regressive" individual may exhibit many but not all of the traits attributed above to The Right and The Left. To cite a medical analogy, these traits are like symptoms that comprise a syndrome. Not all symptoms need be present to confirm a diagnosis.

3. To further complicate matters, there are strong disagreements among the factions that comprise The Right and The Left – within each family, so to speak. For example, the libertarian right opposes all legal restrictions on personal conduct (e.g., drug laws, sodomy laws, obscenity restrictions, banning abortion, etc.). The religious right, on the other hand, advocates the criminalization of sin.

4. These traits are not necessarily exclusive. A political position might mix both right and left traits, and do so consistently. Surely The Right affirms, for example, that workers produce wealth (percolate up), and The Left acknowledges the necessity of private investment in a thriving economy (trickle-down). (Only the radical left would deny the necessity of private investment). The distinction is in the relative importance The Right and The Left assign, respectively, to private investment and to labor.

5. Finally, because this list has been drawn from a progressive point of view, regressives would surely object to several of The Right elements, listed above. Most notably, they would strongly object to the characterization of The Right as a "master morality." Most regressives sincerely believe, or at the very least emphatically affirm in their public pronouncements, that their policies (notably "trickle down" and minimalist government) bring about "the greater good for the greatest number" of citizens. I will argue that this assertion is a delusion at best, and a fraud at worst. Examine each policy of The Right and ask, "Cui Bono?" – who benefits? – and the answer will almost invariably be the privileged few. An apparent exception would be The Right's support for the agenda of the religious right – opposition to gay rights, advocacy of obscenity laws, the banning of abortion, etc. – but even these policies are also devised to benefit the oligarchy of wealth and privilege, for they are adopted to secure the enlistment of the essential foot soldiers of the Right, the evangelical Christians, whose votes are an essential ingredient of the political power of The Right.

Lungdop Philing
03-08-2005, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by Echo2
March 8, 2005
By Ernest Partridge, The Crisis Papers

No question about it: We the People of the United States are now sharply divided into two hostile political factions, variously labeled as "liberal vs. conservative," "left vs. right," and (my preferred designation), "progressive vs. regressive." Let a stranger utter just a couple of sentences of political opinion, and you will usually have a pretty good idea with which faction he identifies himself.



Good post echo ... as a side note, something liberals and progressive should be aware of and it was pointed out right here on allforums this morning in another thread....

The republicans are now openly admitting they will use the military to "mow down tree hugging liberals" as so elequently put by a couple of our posters.

They no longer hide the fact that they want this to go to the streets. TRAV, are you listening? I predictied this many months ago so there's one prediction that has come true (you too Borg).

Point is ... be careful out there. The winger whackjobs are serious.

Don't take any unnecessary chances.

Stay safe

Rock on

Peace

Dop

Travh20
03-08-2005, 02:29 PM
uhhh, that wasnt me that was praetorian. and dont forget to mention the rest of the story behind the quote dop, how you and echo were advocating violent revolution and saying we would all never be able to leave our homes and we should be shitting our pants in fear of the democrat revolutionaires who outnumber us 2:1.

why in the hell does the left wing on this board insist on taking everything out of context? it pisses me off to no end. here we have dop taking a quote from the end of a thread about the overthrow of the government by armed liberals, and when praetorian says we have the military on our side, that being the US government, not the revlutionaries, you say your prediction about republicans wanting to indiscrimantly kill innocnet liberals with the miltary has come true? then you say WE want it to go to the streets when you guys started the revolution thing!?! WTF, this whole board has gone insane. come on dop, get real.

Echo2
03-08-2005, 02:44 PM
You have once again been out maneuvered. And once again you are whining about it.

Decka
03-08-2005, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Echo2
You have once again been out maneuvered. And once again you are whining about it.

LMAO..... out maneuvered??? you think this is some kind of chess match and you just stole our rook huh?

Trav is whining about nothing, Dop DID take things out of context, and he DID wrongfully represent what someone said. You HATE it when anyone else does that echo... but if its in the name of bashing liberals its okay huh?

Decka
03-08-2005, 04:29 PM
oops... i mean republicans LOL

Echo2
03-08-2005, 04:35 PM
A fraudian slip?

The Praetorian
03-08-2005, 05:05 PM
A fraudian slip???

Btw, Echo – Trav’s assessment of what transpired in the other thread was dead-on...

I sometimes marvel at the way your minds work. Honestly, go do yourself a favor, and reread the string if you don’t believe us.

LionelHutz
03-08-2005, 06:21 PM
I knew it was coming, but that was the first time I've seen "progressives" label the opposing viewpoint as "regressive."

Lungdop Philing
03-08-2005, 06:44 PM
I was addressing you trav about the prediction, not the content. I believe you're the one that is always busting my chops over my dead-on nostradomus powers.

Dop

The Praetorian
03-09-2005, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by LionelHutz
I knew it was coming, but that was the first time I've seen "progressives" label the opposing viewpoint as "regressive."
Yeah, but it's been implied the entire time. I guess its given outright credibility when some barefaced liberal douche bag defines our positions in an overtly partisan piece. :rolleyes:

Anyone can compile statistical, anecdotal and circumstantial evidence to support his or her claims, and I guess this man, Ernest Partridge, is given a limited amount of credibility because he’s got a Ph.D. I say big deal, so do a lot of people who believe in what we’re doing overseas...

Echo2
03-09-2005, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by Travh20
uhhh, that wasnt me that was praetorian. and dont forget to mention the rest of the story behind the quote dop, how you and echo were advocating violent revolution and saying we would all never be able to leave our homes and we should be shitting our pants in fear of the democrat revolutionaires who outnumber us 2:1.

You are a liar trav. Plain and simple.

1) I never "ADVOCATED" anything.
2) I said IF a revolution came it would NOT be violent but be thru an infrastructure collapse".
3) I never mentioned anything about people "never being able to leave their homes".
4) I never mentioened anyone "shitting in their pants".
5) I never mentioned anything about "democratic revoutionaries"

Originally posted by Travh20
why in the hell does the left wing on this board insist on taking everything out of context? it pisses me off to no end

With your post, you have done EXACTLY what you are accusing the'left wing on this board' of doing.

You are a liar of the worst kind. You have lied about what I have said and others have said in posts for months. You are pitifull and disgusting.


For anyone interested in checking out what was REALLY said in the referenced discussion above - it is in the POLITICS section under the string Could this be the beginning of another Civil War in the U.S. ?

The Praetorian
03-09-2005, 10:45 AM
Okay, Echo, you're right - you didn't directly advocate those things, but Dop did, and typically, you side with him. You know you argued several points in his favor, which I think made it fairly safe to assume you agreed with what he was saying, no?

I don't think Trav was lying; I think he was acceptably generalizing given the evidence he had to work with...

Oh, and Echo, "You're pitiful and disgusting."???

C'mon now - you know what they say about people in glass houses, don't you?

Echo2
03-09-2005, 10:50 AM
lol - If you want to pity me and be disgusted by me - please, feel free.

Yes, I generally do side with Dop on many things. However I was VERY carefull in that discussion to NOT advocate violence or make any threats.

I am sick of trav posting such blatant lies about me. He can hate me and my politics all he wants, but lieing about what I say is about as low as someone can go. He does it on a regular basis and he does it on purpose.

Lungdop Philing
03-09-2005, 10:51 AM
Preatorian ... where does Dop advocate violent overthrow of the government? Please show me or retract the statement.

Dop

The Praetorian
03-09-2005, 11:29 AM
Echo,

I'm certainly not disgusted by you (with the exception of the waxing story, I suppose), nor do I find myself pitying you (that often)...

I suppose I just don't wholeheartedly understand how you formulate your opinions, which isn’t to say that I don't see your point occasionally...I just abhor isolationism, and the concept of sanctioned socialism, and those two ailments seem like they're the veritable backbone of the liberal manifesto, which, if existed, would be the longest suicide note in history.

The Praetorian
03-09-2005, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Preatorian ... where does Dop advocate violent overthrow of the government? Please show me or retract the statement.

Dop
It's always a word game with you, Dop...

No you didn't say it directly, but I feel your message was fairly point blank. Jmo.

Lungdop Philing
03-09-2005, 11:47 AM
Socialism only scares those who don't undrstand it.

Dop

Echo2
03-09-2005, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by The Praetorian
I just abhor isolationism, and the concept of sanctioned socialism, and those two ailments seem like they're the veritable backbone of the liberal manifesto, which, if existed, would be the longest suicide note in history.

Interesting. I am NOT an isolationsist. I believe that our country needs to be involved in the worlds process's. I think our differences in this area come from the level and timing of involvement.

I do not believe that we as a soveriegn country have the right to overthrow another soveriegn country just because we don't like the way they do things. I do not believe we should act as the worlds police. I have no problem with taking out any country that attacks us or even outright threatens us or (if it can be absolutly proven) plots against us. However I very strongly feel that we do not have the right to be judge, jury and hangman when doing this.

We would not kill a man if we suspected him of plotting to kill us. We would gather the evidence, try him in a court of law and then sentence him. That is what democracy is about. As a government, we basically had some weak circumstancial evidence against Iraq and skipped directly to the punishment, i.e. overthrowing the government. This is not the way democracy works. How can we expect people to accept democracy when we set such a poor example of what it is about.

I also abhor socialism. I believe that free enterprise is the backbone of America. However, I also believe that individuals that have gained prosperity from our system have a certain amount of responsibility to those who struggle under our system, the old, the sick, the disabled. Don't misunderstand me. I do not believe in welfare. But I do believe that as a prosperous nation we have a certain responsibility to the sick, disabled and old.

Anyone too lazy to get a job can starve as far as I'm concerned. Or even better yet put them to work cleaning up the highways and parks, washing grafiti off bridges or pulling weeds. I do not believe in free rides. I would have no problem with getting rid of our current welfare system.

I love this country. However I see it shifting from being a compassionate leader in the world to beiing a hated bully. I see our freedoms being stripped away in the name of fear. Our rights being squelched in the name of religion and our compassion being replaces by bullyism.

I cannot in good conscience sit by and watch this country shift from being a cultural and social leader of the world to being a bully motivated by financial gain.

The Praetorian
03-09-2005, 12:24 PM
Thanks for the explanation.

Although, I have to ask: if this is truly how you feel, then why do you post some of the crap you do?

For the most part, I agree with you, but I also feel there were mitigating circumstances that justified our actions. (different strokes for different folks, I guess...)

All things considered - Good post. :)

saycricket
03-09-2005, 12:37 PM
Wow Echo, that WAS a great post. I wanted to stand up and applaud you after I was done reading it. And, for the record, you hit the nail on the head for a lot of us by demonstrating your various points. Kudos.

Lungdop Philing
03-09-2005, 12:47 PM
Well done Echo and thank you for adding a touch of sanity.

Dop

500lbguerilla
03-09-2005, 01:43 PM
"If pro is the opposite of con is congress the opposite of progress, Or did we just blow your mind?"
America, the book, The daily show