I just watched an interesting movie{true story} about one of the biggest pieces of crap I've ever seen, title "Savage Mossiah". It is a story about the Ant Hill Kids Commune, its followers, and Roch Theriault. Here is one of many websites about him http://webhome.indirect.com/~boweevil/rcktextc.html

Roch did many nasty things, murder, cutting off a members hand with a chain saw, pissing and wipping sh** on members and countles other acts.

This dude was one sick puppy, he called himself moses and said he was doing the work of the lord. One reason I am bringing this up is because folks say God is loving etc..., then why does God allow folks like this to use his name for their nasty games?

Also how does everyone feel about these so called communes?

Link's broken.

then why does God allow folks like this to use his name for their nasty games?

Why not? He does not intercede in any other instance why would He here?



Also how does everyone feel about these so called communes?

I think the whole psychology of cults is fascinating. Evil, charismatic people abound and there will always be others who wish to follow them. People have a need to be lead. Many times people who can not fit in with the mainstream gravitate to leaders such as Theriault because he sets strict boundaries. They know exactly what is expected of them and how to earn reward and what will earn punishment. The need to be loved at any price...quite frightening in some ways.

God wants us to see the what we alone, without Him, can do to each other. Interesting, isn't it?
Also, it doesn't take much to realize that a person who does all those things is not Lord's.
And the link is still broken.

Originally posted by ~Sal~
People have a need to be lead. They know exactly what is expected of them and how to earn reward and what will earn punishment. The need to be loved at any price...quite frightening in some ways.

This is my view of Religion?

Is that a question?

p.s. what is up with all those half naked girls? I really dislike those ads! Argh!

O dont worry Stop those ads are for the heterosexual among us, half naked girls has a way of promoting us to click the link.

and no it wasnt a quesion, excuse the question mark.

I know. I am just upset that people will stoop so low as to diminish themselves to the life of...pornography. I find it abase.

Your a virgin arnt you

Sorry about the link folks, if you are interested all you have to do is search his name or the ant hill commune.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
God wants us to see the what we alone, without Him, can do to each other. Interesting, isn't it?
Also, it doesn't take much to realize that a person who does all those things is not Lord's.

Stop you say the lord loves us, then you say he will let someone like this mind control people, so does he really love us? Some day you may have a daughter, how would you feel if they came home and said I have truely found Jesus? You would say wow that's great, but then "wham, slap in the face" you find out her idea of Jesus and religion is this type of person{Roch}. How would you feel about this lord that is suppose to protect and love? My question still remains, why would a loving God let a person like Roch use his name to punish people that have done no wrong?

A little more to the story; Roch is still at large he is up for parole and he has fathered 4 babies while being in prison. He still has followers and I would bet he is still VERY dangerous. If there truely were a loving God then Roch would have met with a death of some sort while being locked up before he could have planted even more seeds of himself.

Originally posted by ~Sal~
Why not? He does not intercede in any other instance why would He here?

I would like to answer this with a question. What would be the better miracle, walking on water, curing one, bringing yourself back from the dead..........OR saving a group of people{children and babies included} from someone like this Roch person? My idea is, it is all wonderfull that Jesus walked on water, but what about something that would really help? If Jesus had stopped this Roch the 1st time he was arrested then countless acts of abuse would have never happened.





I think the whole psychology of cults is fascinating. Evil, charismatic people abound and there will always be others who wish to follow them. People have a need to be lead.

I do agree some people do have to be lead, and it is interesting how one person can have so much control over a group. Is this what Jesus did? I'm not saying Jesus was bad but is it possible that Jesus just had some sort of control over the few, just like Jim J. David K. and all the others?

Many times people who can not fit in with the mainstream gravitate to leaders such as Theriault because he sets strict boundaries. They know exactly what is expected of them and how to earn reward and what will earn punishment. The need to be loved at any price...quite frightening in some ways.

Couldn't this also be said about mans religion Christian, Jewish, Islamic, etc.... Do people join the group for fear of being left out? If so then is it a true religion or just an empty following, were everyone thinks they have he correct answer?

All religions are cults of one form or another.

Echo your completely right

A system or community of religious worship and ritual.

I prefer to avoid such things.

Originally posted by Echo2
All religions are cults of one form or another.

Said with such an extent of religious experience. Oh yeah, you stand able to call all religions (probably 99% of which you havent expierenced) a cult.

Ugh dictionary definition you muppet

A system or community of religious worship and ritual

I know quite a bit about many religions. I went to a private religious school and graduated from a Dominican college where I studied theology.

Are you aware of what the definition of a cult is?

A delusion held by one person is a mental illness, held by a few is a cult, held by many is a religion.

The term 'cult' expresses disparagement and is usually used to refer to unconventional religious groups, though the term is sometimes used to refer to non-religious groups which appear to share significant features with religious cults. For example, there are some who refer to Amway and Landmark Forum as cults, but I think the term is best reserved for groups such as Scientology, the Order of the Solar Temple (74 suicides in 1984), Heaven's Gate (39 suicides in 1997), the Raëlians, the Urantians, the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's Transcendental Meditation program, the followers of Sathya Sai Baba, and the group that followed the Rev. Jim Jones to Guyana where more than 900 joined in a mass murder/suicide ritual in 1978.

Three ideas seem essential to the concept of a cult. One is thinking in terms of us versus them with total alienation from "them." The second is the intense, though often subtle, indoctrination techniques used to recruit and hold members. The third is the charismatic cult leader. Cultism usually involves some sort of belief that outside the cult all is evil and threatening; inside the cult is the special path to salvation through the cult leader and his teachings.

Of course, there is a positive side to cults. One gets love, a sense of belonging, of fulfilling a special purpose, of being protected, of being free from the evils of the world, of being on the path to eternal salvation, of having power. If the cult did not satisfy needs that life outside the cult failed to satisfy, cults would probably not exist.

One common misconception about cults is that their members are either insane or brainwashed. The evidence for this is insubstantial. It consists mainly of the subjective feeling that no one in their right mind could possibly choose to believe the things that cult members believe. For example, the 39 members of the Heaven's Gate cult believed a space ship was coming to get them to take them to a "higher level." They believed that their leader, Marshall Applewhite (a.k.a. Do), was Christ coming to take the chosen few to a better life somewhere in outer space, perhaps to work on a starship like the Enterprise one sees in movies and on television. They believed they would be given new bodies in the new world, asexual bodies with no hair or teeth, but vestigial eyes and ears (not those gross bug eyes one sees in so many alien pictures). To many people, these beliefs sound like the delusions of lunatics and it seems inconceivable that anyone in his or her right mind would accept such beliefs.

Examined closely, however, the beliefs of Heaven's Gate or Scientology are no stranger than the beliefs that billions of "normal" people hold dear in their sacred religions: heaven and hell, angels, Satan, crucified gods, resurrections, reincarnation, messiahs, trinities, transubstantiation, and so on. As has been noted by others: The delusions of one person is insanity, delusions by a few a cult, and by many a religion.

Originally posted by Echo2
All religions are cults of one form or another.

If that's true, then so are unions and political parties.

Response to you, maddog:

Stop you say the lord loves us, then you say he will let someone like this mind control people, so does he really love us? Some day you may have a daughter, how would you feel if they came home and said I have truely found Jesus? You would say wow that's great, but then "wham, slap in the face" you find out her idea of Jesus and religion is this type of person{Roch}. How would you feel about this lord that is suppose to protect and love? My question still remains, why would a loving God let a person like Roch use his name to punish people that have done no wrong?
The earth, as the Bible teaches us, is inherently evil. The majority will be against Christ, the world itself will work against Christians, everything in this life is against those who accept the truth. This is how it goes. We struggle and fight, but we all have hope for the true Life to come. This is temporary, though its effects are permanent.

If I had a daughter like that (which I probably won't, since I am (adressing Loki here) a virgin (thanks to God (cause I am only 18)) and am planning to be that way)) then I would try my best to explain her the mistakes of that man so she will see. I can't blame God. He gave free will to us, including that man. I can't expect God to solve all my problems, I know He won't. He expects us to work too, not to be lazy and "Oh...dear God, can you dust that floor for me. Thanks." Which is what many people expect God to do.

Also, you said: "people that have done no wrong." Ha! Everybody sinned, everybody can be convicted right now and send to hell. Our only hope, our only salvation is Christ our Saviour. Choose Him, walk with Him, trust in Him, and He will choose you, walk with You, help you, and protect you.
I do agree some people do have to be lead, and it is interesting how one person can have so much control over a group. Is this what Jesus did? I'm not saying Jesus was bad but is it possible that Jesus just had some sort of control over the few, just like Jim J. David K. and all the others?
Think about all sect leaders. Where are they now? Where are their sects? To illustrate my point I will quote what a Pharisee named Gamaliel told other council members (Acts 5:35-39)
5:35
He said to them, "Men of Israel, be careful about what you're going to do to these men.

5:36
Not long ago Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a group of about 400 men rallied to him. He was killed, and all his partisans were dispersed and came to nothing.

5:37
After this man, Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of the census and attracted a following. That man also perished, and all his partisans were scattered.

5:38
And now, I tell you, stay away from these men and leave them alone. For if this plan or this work is of men, it will be overthrown;

5:39
but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You may even be found fighting against God." So they were persuaded by him.

See how we are different. We are still here, after 2005 years After Death. Or many more years after the creation of the world.

Couldn't this also be said about mans religion Christian, Jewish, Islamic, etc.... Do people join the group for fear of being left out? If so then is it a true religion or just an empty following, were everyone thinks they have he correct answer?
I think you give humans too little credit. Sure, we like to be in parties, to be supported by others, but, it doesn't matter where we go, we will always find supporters. Always. You can be the sickest $%^& and somebody will still love you.
People become Christians for different reason than just to be a part of it.

Echo2:
Are you aware of what the definition of a cult is?

A delusion held by one person is a mental illness, held by a few is a cult, held by many is a religion.

Where in the world!!! did you get that definition. It is so subjective and opinionated it's oozing with it.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
This is my view of Religion?



yeah I know:)

At least you are open to the Gaiya(sp) concept... :D

According to Merriam-Webster:

Pronunciation: 'k&lt
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate -- more at WHEEL
1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

You could probably make almost anything fit into this definition. One can easily use it in a disparaging way when referring to any religious belief if that is your intent.

When referring to a a system of worship such as Roch had established the parameters change dramatically.

Originally posted by mad dog
I would like to answer this with a question. What would be the better miracle, walking on water, curing one, bringing yourself back from the dead..........OR saving a group of people{children and babies included} from someone like this Roch person? My idea is, it is all wonderfull that Jesus walked on water, but what about something that would really help? If Jesus had stopped this Roch the 1st time he was arrested then countless acts of abuse would have never happened.

So you want God/Christ or whatever higher power which exists to just reach out of his dimension into this one and ...bang ... make Roch accountable, or make justice happen... or what exactly?

You know, if God exists in the manner in which the bible portrays... let's say for argument sake that he does... can you imagine an occurrence like that... lol... But unbelievers would still be unbelievers... they would each have their own idea of what God should do to satisfy "them".



I do agree some people do have to be lead, and it is interesting how one person can have so much control over a group. Is this what Jesus did? I'm not saying Jesus was bad but is it possible that Jesus just had some sort of control over the few, just like Jim J. David K. and all the others?

I agree with you here. In a sense it likely is what Jesus did. He was very charismatic. Regardless of whether or not you believe him to be merely human or God, his ideas and teachings were revolutionary and had great impact upon the world. If we lived the way He taught us to live and treated others the way He said we should, we would not need God to intercede in order to feed the world or get rid of people like Roch... we would just do it ourselves. And people like Roch would have no control over others because they would have the self-esteem to turn away from such cruelty and insanity.

If only....

Originally posted by mad dog


A little more to the story; Roch is still at large he is up for parole and he has fathered 4 babies while being in prison. He still has followers and I would bet he is still VERY dangerous. If there truely were a loving God then Roch would have met with a death of some sort while being locked up before he could have planted even more seeds of himself.

Wicked people continue to get away with what they do because others sit back and allow it. Our society does not stand up for themslves out of fear. If people trusted in the Lord, they would stand up against evil. People are usually too afraid and back down to fear. Fear is what grips people.

Why doesn't a loving God jsut come down and strike wicked people dead? Even though they are wicked, God wants all to come to know Him as Lord and saviour and wants all to repent(2nd Peter3:9). He doesn't desire that anyone should perish but all have everlasting life. Even a guy like Roch, God desires for him to repent and turn to God for salvation.

The wicked that refuse to repent, there place of eternity will be in hell. They will suffer the consequences of theri actions unless they repent. In luke 13:3, Jesus says "Repent or you will likewise perish." We must repent of our sisn and allow Jesus into our hearts to be free from God's everlasting wrath against sinful humanity.

The wicked get away with what they do for so long, but there time will come.

Excellent point. God just allows wicked to have their little time for fun and play, because He knows where they will spend the eternity. And when you think about it, what is this life really compared to eternity?

Originally posted by STOpandthink
Response to you, maddog:


The earth, as the Bible teaches us, is inherently evil.

I'm sorry if this sounds nasty but that is just plain assnine

The majority will be against Christ, the world itself will work against Christians, everything in this life is against those who accept the truth. This is how it goes. We struggle and fight, but we all have hope for the true Life to come. This is temporary, though its effects are permanent.

I could only think of 1 word when I read this paranoid nice religion you have there be scared very scared :confused: everyone is out to get you, silly silly silly

I can't expect God to solve all my problems, I know He won't. He expects us to work too, not to be lazy and "Oh...dear God, can you dust that floor for me. Thanks." Which is what many people expect God to do.

So some dipsh** gets contorl of a loved one by way of mind control and the family is lazy? Or maybe this loving God is lazy and really isn't loving at all? Or maybe he can't do anything because he was never real in the 1st place?

Also, you said: "people that have done no wrong." Ha! Everybody sinned, everybody can be convicted right now and send to hell.

bull sh** hell is a load of crap :eek:

Our only hope, our only salvation is Christ our Saviour. Choose Him, walk with Him, trust in Him, and He will choose you, walk with You, help you, and protect you.

Its kind of funny{weird} you say this because that is exactly the same line Roch, David K, Jim J, all use/used. I also don't doubt there belief in Christ, it doesn't mean they were/are evil just screwed up in the head.

I think you give humans too little credit. Sure, we like to be in parties, to be supported by others, but, it doesn't matter where we go, we will always find supporters. Always. You can be the sickest $%^& and somebody will still love you.
People become Christians for different reason than just to be a part of it.

I do agree there could be many reasons to be Christian but the one I find used most is fear of hell. Follow the group or go to hell. You yourself have even said it is better to be safe then sorry.

Originally posted by ~Sal~
So you want God/Christ or whatever higher power which exists to just reach out of his dimension into this one and ...bang ... make Roch accountable, or make justice happen... or what exactly?

No, what I want would be for this never to happen in the 1st place. Jesus was here as man so he should have known how man thought? If I went around and starting killing people using the name Sal{from allforums} wouldn't you put a stop to this? Jesus was suppose to have done all these miracles, well what I want to know is where is the proof? People are using is name even as we write to destroy others lives, where is the love?

You know, if God exists in the manner in which the bible portrays... let's say for argument sake that he does... can you imagine an occurrence like that... lol... But unbelievers would still be unbelievers... they would each have their own idea of what God should do to satisfy "them".

I do not want to say I am a none believer what I am is a realist. I am not asking for a personal miracle I am asking for a real miracle/truth. I could tell you that fat smelly women are sexy, this does not make it truth it makes it a personal like, faith, or feeling that I have. If Christ was the son of or God himself I would think he could show 100% proof???



I agree with you here. In a sense it likely is what Jesus did. He was very charismatic. Regardless of whether or not you believe him to be merely human or God, his ideas and teachings were revolutionary and had great impact upon the world.

This is another point there are still those that worship This Roch dude. They feel he is all about love, kindness, caring etc... so how would he be different from Jesus 2000 yrs. from now. Will David K. be thought of as a hero 2000yrs from now. After all he was just doing the work of the lord when the satanist came and burned him and his true followers at the stake????

If we lived the way He taught us to live and treated others the way He said we should, we would not need God to intercede in order to feed the world or get rid of people like Roch... we would just do it ourselves.

I do agree with your point, but if Jesus was God/son of he would have been all knowing so he would have known what he did was not really a miracle just a parlor trick to please the few.

And people like Roch would have no control over others because they would have the self-esteem to turn away from such cruelty and insanity.

Was Jesus just another Roch or Jim J. maybe he was not a killer, but did he have the power to brain wash and get followers? Is the story of Jesus being played over and over again through people like David K. and Jim Jones. In todays world things are much different easier to see the truth, 2000yrs ago stories just kept on growing because that was their form of entertainment.

Originally posted by the J Man
Wicked people continue to get away with what they do because others sit back and allow it.

so your saying we knew what this Roch guy was going to do? we knew he was a killer and we just sat there and let it happen? I dont' think so.

Our society does not stand up for themslves out of fear.

same reason science had to take a back seat to religion, there were those that had figured out that the earth went around the sun but hey can't have that it goes against the church. So instead of learning the truth, out of fear we choose to remain stupid.

If people trusted in the Lord, they would stand up against evil. People are usually too afraid and back down to fear. Fear is what grips people.

Exactly that's why there are so many Christians, fear of hell satan devil evil. Fear of learning who, or what could be the real higher power/god. Fear of questioning because we don't want to burn in hell forever.

Why doesn't a loving God jsut come down and strike wicked people dead?

Wicked people,... maybe they are not wicked at all just confused, so instead of striking people dead why doesn't God fix HIS mistake?

. He doesn't desire that anyone should perish but all have everlasting life. Even a guy like Roch, God desires for him to repent and turn to God for salvation.

This is funny{wierd} I do believe Roch is allready at that stage in his life. Maybe he doesn't relize what he does is bad or against fellow humans. Once again where is a miracle when one is truely needed straighten out all of the Roch's of the world?

The wicked that refuse to repent, there place of eternity will be in hell. They will suffer the consequences of theri actions unless they repent. In luke 13:3, Jesus says "Repent or you will likewise perish." We must repent of our sisn and allow Jesus into our hearts to be free from God's everlasting wrath against sinful humanity.

so maybe God and satan are one in the same. God has all power only he would have the power to send someone to hell so who is the real bad dude? I still don't buy into the hell fire and brimstone BS


The wicked get away with what they do for so long, but there time will come.

Their time will come, but it is nice to know we can go to bed at night and God will be letting things like murder sickness etc.. happen. Their time may come {anyones quess} but while we are here alive and kicking we are sure getting our time aren't we?

I do agree there could be many reasons to be Christian but the one I find used most is fear of hell. Follow the group or go to hell. You yourself have even said it is better to be safe then sorry.
Ok, maddog, I will repeat myself another time, just because I really want you to get the point:
It's not about hell. If there is no hell, fine. Let's pretend there isn't. Why should we do anything that God says then?
Because He is God. Because He made us, He is our Father. He loves us, cares about us, nurtures us, helps us, chastens us, and walks with us, trying to make us better. He is our Life, He is our Wisdom, He is our Light, our Guide, and our only true Hope. Without Him, we are nothing. Without Him, everything is nothing. He is God, all-mighty, all-knowing, and all-present. Holy, true, immaculate, glorious, compassionate, and incomprehensible. He is God. He is all those things and more to us.
We don't follow Him because we are afraid He might send us to hell. No. Rather we follow Him so we might be with Him forever and ever. He promised us exactly that. We follow Him, because then we feel at peace, we feel at home, we feel that He is with us and we are with Him. We want to go to heaven so we might be with Him, and "He may be all in all."
We love our God and He loves His children.