From a discussion in another thread I made a connection that seems quite oblivious to everyone...

The point of a "dirty bomb" is to spread radioactive material across a large area, like a city.

Depleted Uranium is used in a huge number of US weapons against the people of Iraq. Consequently spreading vast amount of depleted uranium across the country. This practice was done in the first gulf war and has contributed to over 500,000 birth defects in the decade between the two.

So for all of you who claim to be horrified that a terrorists may blow a "dirty bomb" in a US how do you ignore your outright hypocracy?

And again all of the 'pro-life' advocates who actively ignore the massive birth defects and uncaring murder of pregnant women in Iraq through indiscriminant bombing; How do you lie to yourself every day?

Depleted Uranium is used in a huge number of US weapons against the people of Iraq.

Actually, ammunition containing depleted uranium (DU) is effective against armored vehicles and has been used against them. They are not used on "the people of Iraq." Nice spin you have there though.

Consequently spreading vast amount of depleted uranium across the country.

You sound like you are unaware that uranium is actually everywhere. All of us ingest some uranium everyday.

This practice was done in the first gulf war and has contributed to over 500,000 birth defects in the decade between the two.

It is also used in the United States for training purposes and was also used in Bosnia, Serbia and Kosovo. There is some evidence pointing that DU weapons may not be completely safe, but to try to paint a picture that the US is using DU as a WMD or a "dirty bomb" for the purposes of causing deformities is far fetched.

Hey bro, I've got a real life question for you: do you normally just spout off stupid crap about things that you obviously know very little about? I'm just wondering, because I know if I met someone that just randomly made accusations without some sort of evidence, I would think they were crazy. So I'm wondering, do the people around you think you are totally nuts? Or do they just pretty much ignore you?

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
So for all of you who claim to be horrified that a terrorists may blow a "dirty bomb" in a US how do you ignore your outright hypocracy?

Dirty bombs don't use depleted uranium, they use radioactive uranium. There's quite a difference.

Dirty bombs don't use depleted uranium, they use radioactive uranium. There's quite a difference. Shows what you know. DU is radioactive just not as radioactive as enriched uranium.

Depleted uranium is roughly 60% as radioactive as naturally occurring uranium, and has a half life of 4.5 billion years
http://www.iacenter.org/depleted/du_iraq.htm

You sound like you are unaware that uranium is actually everywhere. All of us ingest some uranium everyday.

The long-term effects of internalized depleted uranium are not fully known, but the Army has admitted that "if DU enters the body, it has the potential to generate significant medical consequences." Inhaled DU particles or respirable size may become permanently trapped in the lungs. Inhaled DU particles larger than respirable size may be expelled from the lungs and ingested.

DU may also be ingested via hand-to-mouth transfer or contamination of water or food supplies. DU which is ingested, or enters the body through wind contamination, will enter the bloodstream and migrate throughout the body, with most of it eventually concentrating in the kidney, bone, or liver. The kidney is the organ most sensitive to DU toxicity.

Much of the ingested DU will be excreted by the body shortly after the exposure, but the DU that remains acts as a chemical and radiological toxin in organs and bones for the remainder of a person’s lifetime.
http://www.iacenter.org/depleted/du_iraq.htm

We ingest virtually no uranium on a daily basis, especially compared to those in Iraq. "gulf war syndrome" doesnt exist right? Its also much different when you inhale microscopic particles of it that reside in your lungs for life, since 80% of DU is vaporized on impact.


How many Nagasaki bombs equal the radiation in the 2003 Iraq war? Answer: about 250,000 Nagasaki bombs. The US dropped about 4,000,000 lbs of DU on Iraq so far.

An admiral from India wanted to know:
http://traprockpeace.org/bhagwat_du_29feb04.pdf

There is plenty of evidence, youre just ignorant of it. But hey if you dont care about Gulf war syndrome...er uh...DU sickness aflicting our troops with cancer and birth defects and so on...

Daughter of Soldier Contaminated with Depleted Uranium in Iraq Born with Deformities
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/09/30/1411222&mode=thread&tid=25

Broadcast Exclusive: U.S. Soldiers Contaminated With Depleted Uranium Speak Out
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/05/1356248&mode=thread&tid=25

Heads roll at Veterans Administration
Mushrooming depleted uranium (DU) scandal blamed

http://www.sfbayview.com/012605/headsroll012605.shtml

He added, “Out of the 580,400 soldiers who served in GW1 (the first Gulf War), of them, 11,000 are now dead! By the year 2000, there were 325,000 on Permanent Medical Disability. This astounding number of ‘Disabled Vets’ means that a decade later, 56% of those soldiers who served have some form of permanent medical problems!” The disability rate for the wars of the last century was 5 percent; it was higher, 10 percent, in Viet Nam.

The article about the little newborn used the phrase "may have". You should consider using it too.

I hope it wasn't because of the DU, and I don't think I should be flip about someone else's tragedy, just as I also think you shouldn't exploit it to show the war is wrong.

Good website. I also enjoyed the article about how the CIA, NYPD and FBI "may have" been behind Malxolm X's assasination.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
He added, “Out of the 580,400 soldiers who served in GW1 (the first Gulf War), of them, 11,000 are now dead! By the year 2000, there were 325,000 on Permanent Medical Disability. This astounding number of ‘Disabled Vets’ means that a decade later, 56% of those soldiers who served have some form of permanent medical problems!” The disability rate for the wars of the last century was 5 percent; it was higher, 10 percent, in Viet Nam.
And if I'm not mistaken - it was widely known that Saddam used chemical weapons on our troops during the first Gulf War. You can choose to blame DU for their illness if you so desire, but I'm going to reserve passing judgment until I have better information.

actually Saddam didnt use chemical weapons on our troops. Our troops found chemical weapons storage sites and were improperly trained/told of how to dispose of such things properly.

Dont delude yourself. This is a nuclear war. Just because it doesnt have any shiney explosions doesnt change that fact.

DU shells are mainly used in 30mm guns on attack helicopters and A-10's. someone loads those shells into the aircraft and flys the aircraft with the shells in it. what is the procedure for protection they use? do they wear radiation suits when loading the rounds into the aircraft? do the pilots wear spcial radiation flight suits?

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Shows what you know. DU is radioactive just not as radioactive as enriched uranium.

Depleted uranium is roughly 60% as radioactive as naturally occurring uranium, and has a half life of 4.5 billion years
http://www.iacenter.org/depleted/du_iraq.htm

Enriched uranium and naturally occurring uranium are not the same thing.

We ingest virtually no uranium on a daily basis

And this sentence is intentionally misleading. The key word in this sentence is virtually. You do ingest uranium. Everday.

Right and quite a bit of it passes through you. Which is quite different than inhaling the particles and having them lodged in your lungs for life...

Guerilla,

That's the thing with Depleted Uranium. It has to be ingested. DU will vaporize inside a vehicle, but it's area of conatmination is quite small. DU doesn't migrate about. You do HAVE to either inhale it, OR have a fragment in your body for DU to do harm.


Also, there was some other lefty who tried to convince us that depleted unranium was used in small arms (rifles and such) till that little lie was slapped down.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Guerilla,

That's the thing with Depleted Uranium. It has to be ingested. DU will vaporize inside a vehicle, but it's area of conatmination is quite small.

As Trav correctly pointed out, DU shells are most commonly fired by 30mm cannon fitted to helicopters and attack aircraft. The guns that fire them shoot 3000-6000 rounds per minute. This has a tendency to spray the target, and the surrounding area, with a large number of DU shells in a very short time. These shells are in no way contained "inside" the target.

DU doesn't migrate about. You do HAVE to either inhale it, OR have a fragment in your body for DU to do harm.

True, but once it's turned to dust, it can migrate by being blown around.

Anyone that doesn't think the DU problem is real should take a trip to their local VA and meet some of the victims and their deformed kids ... yeah we treat the kids too ... at least we're doing that right.

Dop

Originally posted by Vilepagan
The guns that fire them shoot 3000-6000 rounds per minute.
Have any of you ever heard them fire? I saw a clip of audio/video footage covering the A-10, which is, as you may or may not be aware, an aircraft that's literally built around its cannon. If that weapon were to be fired continuously while the plane was being flown at roughly 350 knots, the power of the gun would literally cause the plane to come to a halt within 30 seconds. When it's fired, there's a sound created that's so sickening, so gut wrenching, so utterly unnerving - it has to be one of the coolest things I've ever heard. In short, it just TEARS SHIT UP!

Sorry, I had to share...:)

praetorian, I have heard the A-10 30mm cannon fire several times. when I was at Fort Drum we did a combined arms live fire with A-10 support for some russian general one time. Also there were several ranges right on the edge of the impact area and many times the A-10 pilots would be doing target pracitce right over our heads. It is a very loud burp or snorting sound. they only fire very short bursts for maybe a second or two, which of course would send a couple hundred rounds of 30mm down range.

I've never heard or seen one fired, but I used to have a book lying around that had a sequence of photos of a tank that was targeted by an A-10. The tank disintegrated under the stream of cannon shells, leaving chunks the size of a shoe-box.

To be honest, I really don't see why these shells have to be made from DU. They may get better penetration, but I think the 30mm cannon would still be lethal if it was firing hardened steel projectiles.

Depleted Uranium is heavier than steel, and lead for that matter. Therefore it has more momentum and penetrates better, plus it burns. You can get similar results with tungsten, but it's more expensive to do so, believe it or not.

I've heard that an A-10 Thunderbolt will use its ammo in ten, two seconds bursts.



Dammit.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Depleted Uranium is heavier than steel, and lead for that matter. Therefore it has more momentum and penetrates better, plus it burns. You can get similar results with tungsten, but it's more expensive to do so, believe it or not.

I understand you'll get more penetration with DU, but I still think steel cannon shells hitting your tank at 3k-6k/minute will still ruin your day.

I've heard that an A-10 Thunderbolt will use its ammo in ten, two seconds bursts.

Sounds about right. That's one of the problems with the rate of fire...you can't carry enough ammo to keep the guns fed.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
I really don't see why these shells have to be made from DU.

Because, unlike what the three or four utterly DIShonest *head-in-the-sand* Wingnuts who try to fucking excuse it and obfuscate it would have you beleieve, the intent of DU shells is to cause the greatest amount of harm possible.

Which, understandably, is what one side does to the other in war.

But then, it should AT LEAST be admitted by the souless fucks in charge of military operations [as well as their callous fucking cheerleaders HERE on this thread!] who chose to use the DU that that is the purpose of that munition. They are WILLFULLY and KNOWINGLY spreading radiation poisoning and cancer and all manner of other deadly afflictions among the targeted people.

And it should ALSO be admitted by the dishonest posters on this thread [who are dutifully repeating the DIShonest propaganda of the inhuman monsters in charge in Washington] that the goddamned USA is nowhere near as lily-white innocent of heinous and reprehensible actions in military campaigns [the perfect example being, of course, using DU shells] as they'd like to have the gullible masses of war-supporters believe.

The thing that I have to be careful of on these boards, is to sink to the namecalling that goes on here from time to time.

Although I do confess, that from time to time, I enjoy getting into a good flame war, I've found that the best posts to have valid points and a structured argument.

I've just been reminded that I've let my standards slip. Which isn't a good thing, overall.


Pagan,

Depleted Uranium is 70% HEAVIER than lead and will catch fire. These unique properties are what makes it so important in anti tank rounds. I'll link to a wikipedia site describing the properties of Depleted Uranium.

Dammit.


Depleted Uranium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium)

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
I'll link to a wikipedia site describing the properties of Depleted Uranium.


Here's a part of your link you might want to peruse for a minute, sparky.

A report written by an Irish petro-chemical engineer stated that in Iraq death rates per 1000 Iraqi children under 5 years of age increased from 2.3 in 1989 to 16.6 in 1993. Cases of lymphoblastic leukaemia have more than quadrupled and a sixfold increase in child leukaemia since 1992 has been attributed to the presence of depleted uranium. "Cancer appears to have increased between seven and 10 times and deformities between four and six times," according to the UN subcommission cited above. It was suggested that DU may have played a part in the increases (The Lancet, Volume 351, Number 9103).

Also..........

The use of DU has also been associated (but no casual link established) with an increase in the rate of birth defects in the children of Gulf War veterans and has been suggested to be the cause of the 'worrying number of anophthalmos cases -- babies born without eyes' in Iraq. Only one in 50 million births should be anophthalmic, yet one Baghdad hospital had eight cases in just two years. Seven of the fathers had been exposed to American DU anti-tank rounds in 1991.

I guess if you're a willfully blind Rechwinger, the many thousandfold% increase in babies born without eyes is just a humorous co-inky-dinky.

I mean, after all.......it's just a bunch of ragheads its happening to. No one important or anything.

______________________________

"We fight a madness, a diseased value system, a spreading cancer. That its main symbol and proponent, George Bush, is such a virulent embodiment of its every awful detail, is perhaps a blessing; for the rest of the world it seems to have helped make the situation clear, and as his foundation of lies continue to be exposed, perhaps this will become clear here at home too"_______Ken Southard

Just a bunch of ragheads?

If that were so, I wouldn't be so dang much in favor of trying to give the same rights, freedoms and dignities that I enjoy here.

The most important things these "ragheads" in the Middle East have to learn is to seperate religion from their government and that morality comes from the heart rather than the Koran.


As much as I don't want our boys over in the Middle East fighting, it's a sad necessity in a world full of evil dictators.

To paraphrase:
The most important things these "Fat American Pigs" in the US have to learn is to seperate religion from their government and that morality comes from the heart rather than the Bible.

Bush : "May god bless our great nation as we go to war against the evil."
- Laden: "Allah Akbar, Jihad onto the infidels"

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal

The most important things these "ragheads" in the Middle East have to learn is to seperate religion from their government ...........

?!?!?!?!

They should seperate their religion from their government???????!?!?

The irony of such a statement coming from a die-hard Rightwinger is simply beyond belief.

_______________________________

Conservatism; \Con*serv"a*tism\, n.; the systematic scapegoating of blacks, environmentalists, homosexuals, antiwar-protestors and atheists in the belief that it will in some magic way save the country.