I recently had a discussion with a friend about the greatest basketball player.... and the quickness of his response suprised me...

"Jordan, hands down" he said....

No thought, no hesitation.....

Now, that i will dispute. I dont dispute that MJ can be included in a CLASS of greatest players to ever play, and he could even be near the top or on top..... but to say he is UNANIMOUSLY the greatest player ever is wrong in my eyes.

There are many reasons MJ is considered the greatest ever... i think a MAJOR factor is that all kids my age WATCHED him growing up, they never got the pleasure to watch Jerry West, or Bill Russell, or Wilt. And because they watched him, they may want to be able to say that they were there, they watched the greatest player of all time play. ....

Another reason some say Jordan is greatest is because the league has supposedly "improved" over the years. Better Athletes, more conditioning, and alot more people trying to make it. While this is true, what you dont hear them saying is how many more teams are around now, watering down the teams. Back in the old days, Talent was HEAVY on fewer teams. Now the talent is more spread out, perhaps allowing Jordan to more easily dominate these watered-down teams.

Yes, he did win 6 championships, yes he did earn 5 mvp awards, but i say to ESPN, Sportscenter, and all the other sports shows and media to quit riding this guy's jock. MANY players have had careers that were equal to OR MORE IMPRESSIVE THAN Michael Jordans.....

First, lets take a look at Jordan...

5-time NBA MVP, 6-time champion.....30.1 ppg, 5.3 apg, 6.2 rpg, 50% FG

Now, lets look at the other DESERVING candidates for best player ever.....

Wilt Chamberlain-
1960 ROY, 4-time NBA MVP, 2-time champion(damn celtics lol)..... 30.1 ppg, 4.4 apg, 22.9 rpg, 54% FG.

Kareem Abdul Jabbar-
1970 ROY, 6-time NBA MVP, 6-time champion.... 24.6 ppg, 3.6 apg, 11.2 rpg, 56% FG.

Larry Bird-
1980 ROY, 3-time NBA MVP, 3-time champion..... 24.3 ppg, 6.3 apg, 10.0 rpg, 50% FG.

Oscar Robertson-
1961 ROY, 1964 NBA MVP, 1971 NBA champion......25.7 ppg, 9.5 apg, 7.5 rpg, 48% FG.

Bill Russell-
5-time NBA MVP, 11-time champion.... 15.1 ppg, 4.3 apg, 22.5 rpg, 44% FG.

Magic Johnson-
3-time NBA MVP, 5-time champion..... 19.5 ppg, 11.2 apg, 7.2 rpg, 52% FG.

Jerry West-
1972 NBA MVP, 1972 champion....27.0 ppg, 6.7 apg, 5.8 rpg, 47% FG.

I told my friend that, for instance, Jerry West could lay claim to best ever as much as Michael could.... he pointed out that he only won 1 championship.... but that's mainly because the Celtics won it every year... 11 straight years.... Jordan never had to face the celtics....well at least not THOSE celtics.

So don't listen to Nike say Jordan is head-feet-and toes above the rest.... make your own decision..... i say he's great, but not the OUTRIGHT greatest.....

We had a seimilar discussion in one of my classes last year...only instead of discussing who was the best basketball player ever, but who was the greatest athlete ever. To that, we had a few that said MJ, and a majority that said Muhammad Ali. Granted we can all agree that MJ deserves a sopt among the top greatest, but also agree that he's not THE greatest.

In terms of this question, I don't follow basketball too much, but just enough to know that MJ deserves a place at the top, but that other players such as Dr. J., Wilt Chamberlain, and Wilt Chamberlain's 20,000 women! :D

I think that Wilt Chamberlain has to be the greatest player ever. Anyone that can score 100 points in a single game....WOW. I just don't think Jordan could have ever taken over a game like that. Ever.

Ha Ha Ha

You people have got to be kidding me. Michael Jordan is hands down the greatest player to ever play the game no argument. you can show me stats all u want. you can say wilt is better but i'll never beleve it cuz MJ is the greatest now, and is the greatest that there has ever been but to say there won't be someone better i can't do that cuz even Jordan himself says someone will be better.

But the simple Matter of the facts are that Michael Jordan is the greatest player to ever play the game..

NOTICE I SAID EVER

Having seen both Oscar Robertson and Michael Jordan play, I will say that Oscar Robertson was better. He played on lousy teams for years, sort of like if Jordan had been drafted by the Clippers. When he finally got a chance in Milwaukee, he took a rookie center to the NBA championship. Everyone made Jabbar the star of that team, and he was great, but look at the assist totals for that year to see who made him an instant star.

wow.....way to back up your statements engineers lol.... basically you said "i wont look at the facts, i think jordan is the best, so he must be the best, because i think so..."

I think its me who's doing the laughing right now.....

And Imagineer.... The Big O would definitely be a solid choice for the best. His season when he AVERAGED a triple double will never be touched.

Well Decka, I have had some experience with saying something will "never" happen, so I won't go that far. It was a fantastic season though, and will certainly not be easy to beat. It was a shame that Oscar Robertson played on such bad teams in his prime. If he had been in Philadelphia, the Celtics wouldn't have won so many titles.

Originally posted by Karankawa
I think that Wilt Chamberlain has to be the greatest player ever. Anyone that can score 100 points in a single game....WOW. I just don't think Jordan could have ever taken over a game like that. Ever.

I have to agree with you on this. He has always been my favorite. I had the pleasure of meeting Wilt at a party in Seattle many years ago. A very nice man and an EXCELLENT basketball player.

Echo---

Where you one of his infamous 20,000 women club?

Oh geez, cmon now jere....LOL

Wilt is also a good choice echo... as far as total domination goes..... i dont think anyone did it single-handedly more than The Stilt.....

and Imagineer... that is a GOOD lesson to learn- NEVER say "never" in sports. I RElearned that lesson just a few days ago.... Illinois vs. Ohio State in basketball, i saw Illinois was up 13-4 in the opening stages, i said "this one's already over, OSU can NEVER come back".....

OSU over Illinois with a last second 3.... wow

BUT... you can pretty much say noone will ever touch the big O's triple double average..... i mean, nowadays, someone is lucky to get 7 triple doubles IN ONE SEASON..... imagine AVERAGING one....geez.

And here's just a side question....what do you think is the more dominating season...... Oscar Roberton's triple double average or Wilt Chamberlains 50 point average?

I think one day, that Kobe Bryant may be considered one of the greatest, if not, THE GREATEST to ever play the game! What do you guys think? It is most unfortunate that his image has been tarnished from the alleged sexual assault.

While it is tough to compare a guard and center in terms of dominance, I think Oscar Robertson's triple double average was actually more dominating. He was the guy who started every play, and distributed the ball. He was truly the guy who at least started every play.

Originally posted by FriendlyGuy
I think one day, that Kobe Bryant may be considered one of the greatest, if not, THE GREATEST to ever play the game! What do you guys think? It is most unfortunate that his image has been tarnished from the alleged sexual assault.

First thing.....Kobe is a good player, but he has yet to be great. If he can take this laker team to the finals and win....maybe.

And his image wasn't innocently "tarnished"......he cheated on his wife..... and thats crappy.

Originally posted by Decka
First thing.....Kobe is a good player, but he has yet to be great.

He has "yet" to be great? FYI, Kobe has won 3 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS! If that's not great, then what is?

If that's not great, then what are Karl Malone and John Stockton to you? Considering that they haven't won more than 3 championships (to be great, you say someone must win 4?), heck, they haven't won any championships, would you say that they are "average" players?

LOL, Kobe has "yet" to be great. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by FriendlyGuy
He has "yet" to be great? FYI, Kobe has won 3 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS! If that's not great, then what is?

Kobe didn't win Three World Championships...The Los Angeles Lakers did.

If that's not great, then what are Karl Malone and John Stockton to you? Considering that they haven't won more than 3 championships (to be great, you say someone must win 4?), heck, they haven't won any championships, would you say that they are "average" players?

In order to be considered "great," to me, means either winning a championship, breaking a milestone record or doing some other major contribution to the sport, or playing for a very long time. To the world, it's all about winning the big one, since that's as high as you can go in playing.

The advantage that guys like Russell and Wilt have over an MJ is that you can build a team around one of them. As we saw with the Wizards, you can't just put a good 3, even the generally accepted "greatest", in the lineup and mold the team around him. Old-school big guys could play, as opposed to the Shaq-esque catch-and-slam bigs of today, who have an intriguing style all their own but tend to be grunts instead of skill-players.

Oscar Robinson or Wilt Chamberlin....Michael Jordan was just a product of them...

Originally posted by FriendlyGuy
He has "yet" to be great? FYI, Kobe has won 3 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS! If that's not great, then what is?

Alot of people have won 3 championships.... Scott Williams did, Horace Grant did, Robert Horry did, are they great? according to you they are..... and evidence suggests the contrary.
Originally posted by FriendlyGuy

If that's not great, then what are Karl Malone and John Stockton to you? Considering that they haven't won more than 3 championships (to be great, you say someone must win 4?), heck, they haven't won any championships, would you say that they are "average" players?

Karl Malone is a great player indeed, as is John Stockton. No they never won the big one but they came close twice and were a playoff team for well over a decade. Malone is the second highest scorer ever, and Stockton is arguably the best point guard in history. Meanwhile, Kobe just happened to be on shaq's team for 3 years.. .. he's one of today's great players, but of all time Kobe is pretty minute.

oh, and where did i say someone has to win 4 championships to be great?.....

Originally posted by FriendlyGuy

LOL, Kobe has "yet" to be great. :rolleyes:

Im glad you agree

I think MJ was one of the greatest. All the players listed in the beginning post were great. It's better to compare players by your actually watching them play. Career stats and # of championships won can't be fairly compared due to the different environment and time in which each player played.

i agree.....its a question that cannot be answered....

I think most people who are so quick to say MJ is greatest are generally younger folk.

They want to be able to say they were around to watch Jordan, the greatest, and exaggerate just to be "included" in history.

Originally posted by Imagineer
Having seen both Oscar Robertson and Michael Jordan play, I will say that Oscar Robertson was better.

Many people don't even no that Oscar Robertson had averaged a triple-double for the entire season, 30+pts, 10+rebs, and 10+ast in just his second season. Wilt had averaged 50+pts and 20+reb in A season. If you look at it from a championship retrospective, then take a look at the man with more rings then fingers (11 championships), Bill Russell. Also take into consideration that Russell once had 51 rebounds in ONE game.
I would have also chosen Jordan because I have watched him throughout most of his career. Still, I wouldn't say that it was a hands down pick. If I had watched any of the gentlemen mentioned above, I might have considered one of them rather than Jordan, I MIGHT have, don't get that twisted.