I often am told by "real patriots" that I just hate america. They cant even stand to think that America isn't the best at everything in the world and in fact we do some pretty horrible things sometimes. Most Americans are egotistical nationalists and its pretty disgusting. So for those of you who thing America is #1, think again. We're not even #10...

America by the numbers
No. 1?
http://www.citypages.com/databank/26/1264/article12985.asp

Highlights:

--The United States is 41st in the world in infant mortality. Cuba scores higher (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).

--"U.S. childhood poverty now ranks 22nd, or second to last, among the developed nations. Only Mexico scores lower" (The European Dream, p.81). Been to Mexico lately? Does it look "developed" to you? Yet it's the only "developed" country to score lower in childhood poverty.

--"Nearly one out of four Americans [believe] that using violence to get what they want is acceptable" (The European Dream, p.32).

--Forty-three percent of Americans think torture is sometimes justified, according to a PEW Poll (Associated Press, Aug. 19, 2004).

Even im starting to get bored of American hating Americans now... isnt there another record you could play?

Well.....................do something about it then, if it really bothers you that much.

Fair enough =

Call to arms of all Pro america americans, make this defector pay for his treason against your motherland. :)

LOL.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla

--"U.S. childhood poverty now ranks 22nd, or second to last, among the developed nations. Only Mexico scores lower" (The European Dream, p.81). Been to Mexico lately? Does it look "developed" to you? Yet it's the only "developed" country to score lower in childhood poverty.


Poverty is determined within the country itself as there is no international standard. Here is what we consider "poverty" according to the US Census Bureau:

""Forty-six per cent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one and a half baths, a garage and porch or patio.

Seventy-six per cent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago only 36% of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.

Only 6% of poor households are overcrowded. More than two thirds have more than two rooms per person.

The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens and other cities throughout Europe. (Note: These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries not to those classified as poor.)

Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30% own two or more cars.

Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television. Over half own two or more color televisions. Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player. Sixty-two percent have cable or satellite TV reception.

Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens; more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.""

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1001979/posts

SOUNDS LIKE A REAL TOUGH LIFE FOR THEM THERE POOR, GUERILLA


(Loki - This is the line of the year: Even im starting to get bored of American hating Americans now... isnt there another record you could play?)

lol well thankyou!

in regards to your housing thing, I live with my dad in a 3 bedroom semi-detached house. Its pretty small i guess, no garage or driveway, 1 toilet and 1 bathroom (sink and bath) a little front garden. Its current value is £150,000 which is 285,945.00 dollars.

Is that alot for a little 3 bedroom semi in America?

One new thing I learned within the past month:
From the Consumer Expenditure Survey of 2002.
The lowest 20%'s average income(before taxes) is $8,316, their average expenditure is $19,061. They spend 229% of their income. Second 20%'s average income(before taxes) is $21,162, average expenditure is $27,140, that means they spend 128% of their income. Talk about making ends meet. This information was used at a debate tournament to both attack our current tax system and a possible flat tax system(which is what we were debating, whether the current system should be replaced by a flat tax).

Is that alot for a little 3 bedroom semi in America?
It all depends on location, but anyways I think that's worth more than the house I'm currently sitting in, which is a four bedroom, one office, two bathroom and two living room house with a garage sitting on a small lake with a pool. You live in London which is a bit cramped now, and I live in a suburbish area.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
lol well thankyou!

in regards to your housing thing, I live with my dad in a 3 bedroom semi-detached house. Its pretty small i guess, no garage or driveway, 1 toilet and 1 bathroom (sink and bath) a little front garden. Its current value is £150,000 which is 285,945.00 dollars.

Is that alot for a little 3 bedroom semi in America?
That is REALLY fucking expensive for a 3/1/0 house (no idea what semi-detached means). My mom's house, which was sold when she died, sold for around $170k, I believe. This is a 3/2/2 house, too. Corner lot, big-ish. Screened back porch.

Originally posted by Blibblob
You live in London which is a bit cramped now, and I live in a suburbish area.

Ugh No i dont :) London prices are double that. I live in South England though which is why the price

Semi detached means their is another house connected to the left wall of ours. the house on the right is about 6 feet away on the right.

I cant buy a house since you need 4 times your wage :( for a mortgage

Ugh No i dont London prices are double that. I live in South England though which is why the price
*Could of sworn you had said you did before*
Well, you live in England. Is that better? It's far more cramped over there than it is here, considering there are places in the United States in which the population is about 0.0001 people per square mile.

Originally posted by Blibblob

*Could of sworn you had said you did before*

Its an hour drive away, which once again i guess is nothing in comparitive terms to the distant between states and the like.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Is that alot for a little 3 bedroom semi in America?
As Blib said, it really depends on where you live. In DuPage county Illinois, 300,000 dollars is run of the mill for a three-bedroom house with 2.5 baths. In my father's old neighborhood, 300,000 would purchase a building permit and a lot, and I'm not kidding. In Hinsdale (a fairly affluent area), it's not uncommon to see 4 and 5 million dollar houses, with some that range into the teens, and that was literally 5 minutes away from where I grew up.

Unfortunately, I've been humbled in my later life and now I live by myself in a 150,000 dollar 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom condo in Will county. Hey, we all gotta start somewhere, right? :)

Twenty percent of Americans think the sun orbits the earth. Seventeen percent believe the earth revolves around the sun once a day (The Week, Jan. 7, 2005).

WTF?!

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla

--The United States is 41st in the world in infant mortality. Cuba scores higher (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).

--"U.S. childhood poverty now ranks 22nd, or second to last, among the developed nations. Only Mexico scores lower" (The European Dream, p.81). Been to Mexico lately? Does it look "developed" to you? Yet it's the only "developed" country to score lower in childhood poverty.

--"Nearly one out of four Americans [believe] that using violence to get what they want is acceptable" (The European Dream, p.32).

--Forty-three percent of Americans think torture is sometimes justified, according to a PEW Poll (Associated Press, Aug. 19, 2004).
Who says America is perfect? I mean, I know Republicans don't like to admit to what we have wrong in our country, but no one says we are perfect.

Just because we have our flaws, does not make us a bad nation.

Originally posted by Overdose
Who says America is perfect? I mean, I know Republicans don't like to admit to what we have wrong in our country, but no one says we are perfect.

Just because we have our flaws, does not make us a bad nation.
Nope.......just hypocrites!!!!!!!! (http://www.tompaine.com/articles/abstinence_budget.php)

"President Bush got elected the first time on a platform of "compassionate conservatism." Five years later, Karen Pearl of Planned Parenthood is struggling to find the compassion in his 2006 budget. In addition to increasing funding for ineffective abstinence-only education for teens, he cut the Title X funding that pays for family planning for low-income people. And while nearly everyone can agree that the best way to prevent abortions is through better contraception, Bush won't fully fund prorgrams that encourage it. So much for compassion."

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
I often am told by "real patriots" that I just hate america. They cant even stand to think that America isn't the best at everything in the world and in fact we do some pretty horrible things sometimes. Most Americans are egotistical nationalists and its pretty disgusting. So for those of you who thing America is #1, think again. We're not even #10...

America by the numbers
No. 1?
http://www.citypages.com/databank/26/1264/article12985.asp

Highlights:

--The United States is 41st in the world in infant mortality. Cuba scores higher (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).

--"U.S. childhood poverty now ranks 22nd, or second to last, among the developed nations. Only Mexico scores lower" (The European Dream, p.81). Been to Mexico lately? Does it look "developed" to you? Yet it's the only "developed" country to score lower in childhood poverty.

--"Nearly one out of four Americans [believe] that using violence to get what they want is acceptable" (The European Dream, p.32).

--Forty-three percent of Americans think torture is sometimes justified, according to a PEW Poll (Associated Press, Aug. 19, 2004).

your frfee to sneak acros the border to sanctuary in Mexico guerilla

All Im sayin is that there are quite a few blind patriots and all they do is brag about how great america is. And America is great but Im sure I think so for other reasons than they. Point being we are not the best at everything and in fact we dont even place in the top ten.

Im just trying to delfate the Ego that trying to consume the world.

your frfee to sneak acros the border to sanctuary in Mexico guerilla dammit I thought you bastards were going to buy me a plane ticket...:D

The price of houses is extremely dependant on location. No sense in trying to compare anything but cost of living.

Brooks - forgive me if I dont consider the (un)free Republic a source. Considering they would delete this same article is it had unfavorable results. Please link from somewhere else if you want me to take the word for it. Also, I am well aware that Americans are extremely greedy and indoctrinated to spend. I do not doubt the claims, I doubt the source. However in many places in America you cannot live/get a job without a car.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Even im starting to get bored of American hating Americans now...
It's an old American-tradition!!


http://untruenews.com/images/kkk2.jpg

I think I see Robert Byrd in that pic, second from the left

Who said america is perfect? Id say we're far from it......

No, America is not "perfect" but damn if America does its absolute best to try and be perfect. We have this moral superiority that gives third world countries, tin horn dictators and liberals everywhere fits.

Guerilla,

Seeing as how you cite sources from counterpunch.com, which is off the deep end liberal, you shouldn't be criticizing sources used by brooks.

Dammit.

People in this country who constantly bitch about America need to go live in a third world country for a while. Then they might appreciate all that we have here.

Originally posted by Travh20
your frfee to sneak acros the border to sanctuary in Mexico guerilla
That's where "conservatives" & Progressives differ.

Unlike "conservatives", Progressives aren't afraid of the Work (involved), when changes are needed.

"Good enough" is always the excuse "conservatives" fall-back-on, when someone suggests that evil W-word. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Decka
Who said america is perfect?
Kenny-Boy Lay comes-to-mind....... :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
No, America is not "perfect" but damn if America does its absolute best to try and be perfect. We have this moral superiority that gives third world countries, tin horn dictators and liberals everywhere fits.
I'd say the Third World has (long ago) gotten beyond the fits-mode (http://www.converge.org.nz/lac/articles/news990610b.htm) ........especially since their reclassification; from communists, to terrorists (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4308537.stm)! :mad:

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Guerilla,

Seeing as how you cite sources from counterpunch.com, which is off the deep end liberal......
....And, yet.......you NeoCons consistantly fail to find any documentation to support your rhetoric!!

How convenient. :@@:

http://www.rushlimbaughonline.com/images/wisdom.gif

Originally posted by Jester
People in this country who constantly bitch about America need to go live in a third world country for a while.
Hell.......there's no need to cross-any-borders, for that!!


https://home.comcast.net/~treehousehero/trash6.jpg

I know I slate America a lot but I think it mainly has a lot to do with a clash of patriotism.

I am a very patriotic Englishman and I love being English, We have one of the most richest and powerful history's in the world and our armed forces are among the best in the world. When I hear an American Patriot going on about how great America is I go on the defensive because I believe England is a greater country than America!!!

England has it's bad points but it also has it's good points, The English are known as gritty determined people with a never say die spirit. This is what it is the be English, The problem with England is people like Loki who hate our great country. Why, well I don't know He and others alike think the grass will be greener on the other side but I really think it won't.

I have nothing against American Patriots and in fact I'm glad that there are so many in America because there are now so few in England. This is mainly down to the fact that if you are a patriot of England you are usually classed as a racist which is complete bollox but anyway to sum up. America aint the best neither is England but in the eyes of a patriot there is no better country and no amount of stats will change that. It isn't always what's in front of you. To Be an American or an Englishman is to have a true sense of who you are and where you come from and being proud of it!!!

This is apparently hard to understand for some of you people who in my opinion don't deserve the country you live in!!!

See i just see that as plain ignorance.

What you just said there is "To be Patriot you have to be Ignorant of the world around you and love your country no matter what it does or which direction it heads in"

I like England in some points, I hate it in others. Yes, currently the bad points for me outweigh the good and so Id rather move elsewhere.

Honestly being a Patriot just sounds like the Christians banging on about Religion. No matter what the Argument your never going to change your mind.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
See i just see that as plain ignorance.

What you just said there is "To be Patriot you have to be Ignorant of the world around you and love your country no matter what it does or which direction it heads in"

I like England in some points, I hate it in others. Yes, currently the bad points for me outweigh the good and so Id rather move elsewhere.

Honestly being a Patriot just sounds like the Christians banging on about Religion. No matter what the Argument your never going to change your mind.

No you wont change your mind, If you had a baby and some women came up and said your baby is ugly you aren't going to believe them because it's your baby and in your eyes its wonderful and cute!!!. Even if a women shows you that over a 100 babies yours is the worst looking baby you still wont believe them.

It works on that principal!!

Originally posted by English_Pride
To Be an American or an Englishman is to have a true sense of who you are and where you come from and being proud of it!!!
PLEASE!!!!!!!

We're BOTH GUILTY-AS-HELL (http://www.ranknfile-ue.org/uen_bloodandoil.html), when discussing the Middle East!!!!!! :mad:

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
See i just see that as plain ignorance.

What you just said there is "To be Patriot you have to be Ignorant of the world around you and love your country no matter what it does or which direction it heads in"
During Vietnam (in the U.S.), it was phrased "My country; right or WRONG!"

How intelligent, huh?? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Mr. Shaman
PLEASE!!!!!!!

We're BOTH GUILTY-AS-HELL (http://www.ranknfile-ue.org/uen_bloodandoil.html), when discussing the Middle East!!!!!! :mad:

Yep, The UK and U.S have made mistakes, Very bad and costly mistakes but does that make me hate my country, NO. I may hate blair and bush but they are not America and England. England is the people who are Englsih born and bread, I may disaprove and hate the priminister but i still love my country!!!

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla

Brooks - forgive me if I dont consider the (un)free Republic a source. Considering they would delete this same article is it had unfavorable results. Please link from somewhere else if you want me to take the word for it. Also, I am well aware that Americans are extremely greedy and indoctrinated to spend. I do not doubt the claims, I doubt the source. However in many places in America you cannot live/get a job without a car.

Guerilla, I had heard this story on the radio months ago and was able to locate it on Google. It is on the FreeRepublic website, but quotes US Census statistics. Unfortunately not other outlet I could find in this "conservative" media carried this very positive story about the United States.

Only you could look at these statistics of how well even the poor in this country are doing and see greed. If our "poor" are doing better than SOME of Europe's middle class, there are deeper reasons than greed (if you're not looking for the negative all the time, that is).


English Pride, I think it's great you love your country and aren't embarassed to say so. I feel the same way about the US. And although you may disagree with Loki, compared to the complainers in this country, he is very level and rational in his criticism.

Originally posted by Brooks
Guerilla, I had heard this story on the radio months ago and was able to locate it on Google. It is on the FreeRepublic website, but quotes US Census statistics. Unfortunately not other outlet I could find in this "conservative" media carried this very positive story about the United States.

Only you could look at these statistics of how well even the poor in this country are doing and see greed. If our "poor" are doing better than SOME of Europe's middle class, there are deeper reasons than greed (if you're not looking for the negative all the time, that is).


English Pride, I think it's great you love your country and aren't embarassed to say so. I feel the same way about the US. And although you may disagree with Loki, compared to the complainers in this country, he is very level and rational in his criticism.
I have to admit, I kinda noticed!!! You have people on this site with serious hate for there own country!!! Shocking

Originally posted by English_Pride
I have to admit, I kinda noticed!!! You have people on this site with serious hate for there own country!!! Shocking
Gee, do you really think so? I hadn't noticed...

are you seriously argueing that American culture doesnt promote greed?

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Even im starting to get bored of American hating Americans now...

The fact is Loki that far too many in America --- upon hearing another person simply comment that America is not number 1 in many areas---- immediately characterize it as **America hating**.

That fact alone speaks volumes about the egotistic nationalism that is so rampant in American society.

No wonder the US leadership wants to bomb the rest of the world into submission, when they have so many among the citizenry of that simplistic, jingoistic **My-country-right-or-wrong!!** mindset.

it really irks me when people like 500lbguerilla and overdose and shaman post sources such as counterpunch.com and tvnewslies .com as their source for thier statistics and such then have the gall to turn around and criticize someone elses source as too biased to be beleived. are they completly insane or something? does it not register in their minds that expecting everyone to believe everything posted in links with the Star flag of the american flag replaced by a swastika while at the same time calling someone elses sources unreliable is incredibly insane?

Originally posted by Travh20
idoes it not register in their minds that expecting everyone to believe everything posted in links with the Star flag of the american flag replaced by a swastika .....

Many people, when they see the red-white-and-blue of the America flag, DO see a swastika there.

A commentary, I suppose, on the fascist police-state this government is devolving into.

Originally posted by Mr. Shaman
Unlike "conservatives", Progressives aren't afraid of the Work (involved), when changes are needed.

Oh yeah, that's why all of those "move to Canada" websites were doing such brisk business after the election. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
are you seriously argueing that American culture doesnt promote greed?

It may or may not, but that's not the point. You looked at statistics showing how the "poor" in this country are doing very well, and instead of celebrating it, called it greed.

To suggest "greed" is a cure for poverty is beyond simplistic.

Guerilla, greed has gotten you most everything you have, if it were not for greed you would be living in a tent eating boiled potatos everyday. 95% of the inventions we use everyday are greed inspired. in other words, the person who invented them took the time and effort to invent them because there would be rewards for doing it. HOw many inventions came out of the soviet union or china recently?

Originally posted by English_Pride
Yep, The UK and U.S have made mistakes, Very bad and costly mistakes but does that make me hate my country, NO. I may hate blair and bush but they are not America and England. England is the people who are Englsih born and bread, I may disaprove and hate the priminister but i still love my country!!!
........And, as long as their policies don't affect you, directly, you're unconditional love maintains it's momentum.

How patriotic. :rolleyes:

*

"In Germany they first came for the Communists.......and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews......and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists........and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics.....and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me......and by that time no one was left to speak up."

The Reverend Martin Niemöller; a pastor in the German Confessing Church who spent seven years in a concentration camp.

Originally posted by English_Pride
I have to admit, I kinda noticed!!! You have people on this site with serious hate for there own country!!!
It's not hatred for the country, as much as it is hatred for the NeoCon-colonists (http://www.newamericancentury.org/) who are (presently) DESTROYING any positive-reputation we (once) had!! :mad:

Originally posted by LionelHutz
Oh yeah, that's why all of those "move to Canada" websites were doing such brisk business after the election. :rolleyes:
I don't feel any need to defend anyone's laziness.

Originally posted by Travh20
95% of the inventions we use everyday are greed inspired. in other words, the person who invented them took the time and effort to invent them because there would be rewards for doing it.
Gee.........how fuckin' inspiring........ ;)


http://www.llnl.gov/str/JanFeb02/gifs/JanFeb50th3.jpg

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
No, America is not "perfect" but damn if America does its absolute best to try and be perfect. We have this moral superiority that gives third world countries, tin horn dictators and liberals everywhere fits.
Yeah.........we're really makin' great use of that moral superiority! (http://www.allforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10710) :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Travh20
.....greed has gotten you most everything you have......
......And, if that doesn't work-out, you can hope for a Bush-pardon! (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8448-2005Mar4.html) :rolleyes:

Shaman, of those two "inventions" you posted pictures of, the one on the left saved many lives at the time and the one on the right saved many lives since then.

Here's a deal for ya ... and we can be neighboors ...

This cute little 2 bedroom, 1.75 bath is a steal at 2.6 million ...

MLS ID#: S376142

HOw many inventions came out of the soviet union or china recently? Anna Kournikova and Maria Sharapova: Russia's new tactic in fighting the Cold War.

quote:Originally posted by English_Pride-------"
I have to admit, I kinda noticed!!! You have people on this site with serious hate for there own country!!!"

Originally posted by Mr. Shaman
It's not hatred for the country, as much as it is hatred for the NeoCon-colonists (http://www.newamericancentury.org/) who are (presently) DESTROYING any positive-reputation we (once) had!!

EXACTLY!!

Well spoken, Shaman.

_______________________________

We fight a madness, a diseased value system, a spreading cancer. That its main symbol and proponent, Bush, is such a virulent embodiment of its every awful detail, is perhaps a blessing; for the rest of the world it seems to have helped make the situation clear, and as his foundation of lies continue to be exposed, perhaps this will become clear here at home too_______Ken Southard

I like what EP said because he is no great fan of the United States, but even he can see what's going on here.

Originally posted by Brooks
Shaman, of those two "inventions" you posted pictures of, the one on the left saved many lives at the time and the one on the right saved many lives since then.
ENRICHING the lives (of weapons-industry stockholders), maybe.....but, hardly saving lives. :rolleyes:

Ya' wanna save lives?

Put the same amount into long-term investments......like education!!

When the super powers had these weapons, worldwide war casualties plummeted (out of fear of starting large scale wars and where they could lead).

Originally posted by fluffernutter
Anna Kournikova and Maria Sharapova: Russia's new tactic in fighting the Cold War.
......And, all we can manage is a dominatrix! :@@:

http://home.comcast.net/%7Ewizardofwhimsy/darthrice.jpg

Originally posted by Brooks
When the super powers had these weapons, worldwide war casualties plummeted (out of fear of starting large scale wars and where they could lead).
Yeah.........that's what the brochure said......while they sat & rusted. :rolleyes:

China will be the lone superpower in 10-15 years with the EU and russia coming in 2nd and the United States relegated to the trash pile of 3rd world countries and failed empires.

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
China will be the lone superpower in 10-15 years with the EU and russia coming in 2nd and the United States relegated to the trash pile of 3rd world countries and failed empires.
Dop

In your dreams.

One of the advantages China will have, though, is that even though they have a huge economy and manufacturing base, they are immune from the restrictions of the sacred Kyoto Treaty. One of the many wise reasons we vetoed it.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
China will be the lone superpower in 10-15 years with the EU and russia coming in 2nd and the United States relegated to the trash pile of 3rd world countries and failed empires.

Dop

and you would be happy as a clam too

China is sucking the oil right out of the war and given enough time we will no longer be able to (afford) this 21st century crusade.

Toss in Venezuela who will hold back their oil, Russia sits on her oil, Iraq oil never comes to life etc etc ....

We'll be lucky if we even make the top 25 let alone be a superpower.

No it doesn't make me happy trav -- it's called reality.

Dop

There's a fine line between predicting and hoping when you speak, and you come off as a little bit of an oddball.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
China will be the lone superpower in 10-15 years with the EU and russia coming in 2nd and the United States relegated to the trash pile of 3rd world countries and failed empires.

Dop
......And, China's doing so thru capitalistic-ventures..........rather than thru any militaristic-ventures, like the Cold Warriors had advertised.

How ironic. :rolleyes:


http://www.polizeros.com/images/2003/02/15/iwantmywar-2.jpg

Originally posted by Brooks
There's a fine line between predicting and hoping when you speak, and you come off as a little bit of an oddball.

WTF is your problem Brooks? Dissent is no longer allowed on message boards? 1st ammendment doesn't apply to people that dissagree with you?

I thought you were one of the more level-headed wingers on this board but now I see you're just another bushbot.

Dop

Dop, I think mine is among the most mild of rebukes ever. The two worst things I've ever said on these threads is "a little bit of an oddball" and I once called Echo an asshole for making a funny joke about how she had a better understanding of why Hitler started the Holocaust.

Now back to my comment. You have a certain glee when things go bad for this country, and there's a hopefulness in the tone of your posts when you predict bad things coming for us. I know we all get caught up in the argument sometimes, I know I do, and say things more extreme than we actually feel. It just seems different with you though. You actually seem to hope for the worst.

I thought "oddball" was almost good-natured compared to the other vindictive flung around here. I was called a "pig" the other day, but I didn't think it was intended with malice.

Sorry.

Originally posted by Mr. Shaman
......And, China's doing so thru capitalistic-ventures..........rather than thru any militaristic-ventures, like the Cold Warriors had advertised.

How ironic. :rolleyes:




And Japan was going to own us by 1983.

Originally posted by Brooks
I once called Echo an asshole for making a funny joke about how she had a better understanding of why Hitler started the Holocaust.

Shame on you.


Now back to my comment. You have a certain glee when things go bad for this country, and there's a hopefulness in the tone of your posts when you predict bad things coming for us. I know we all get caught up in the argument sometimes, I know I do, and say things more extreme than we actually feel. It just seems different with you though. You actually seem to hope for the worst.

It's one of the oldest tricks in the art of debating. Make the other side lose their cool (especially through hatred) and they will lose the debate. I know where the buttons are with certain posters and I push them. It never fails.

I was called a "pig" the other day, but I didn't think it was intended with malice.

More than likely it was intended with malice.

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
I know where the buttons are with certain posters and I push them. It never fails.


Isnt that Troll behaviour?

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing

It's one of the oldest tricks in the art of debating. Make the other side lose their cool (especially through hatred) and they will lose the debate. I know where the buttons are with certain posters and I push them. It never fails.
Dop

"There's a fine line between predicting and hoping when you speak, and you come off as a little bit of an oddball."



The above was my original response to you. Is this me losing my cool? Whoa, watch out everyone, I'm an animal.

Yes, you lost your kool ... can you imagine in a real debate, one turning to the other and calling that person an oddball. It would be instant checkmate.

Fortunately for you, this isn't a real debate so you can get away with calling names and labelling people in lieu of debating or adding context to the thread.

Have no worries though -- I'm used to the right resorting to those tactics when they have their backs against the wall and can no longer argue the point.

Dop

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Isnt that Troll behaviour?

HUH??? It's troll behaviour [sic] to psychologically position yourself on a debate forum?

You must get that from driving on the left.

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Yes, you lost your kool ... can you imagine in a real debate, one turning to the other and calling that person an oddball. It would be instant checkmate.
C'mon, Dop, I think it's perfectly acceptable to consider you as a bit of an "oddball". You're just a different breed of cat, and that's clearly apparent through what you say, how you say it, and how you think. Don't take offense to it, embrace your kooky self, and give an alien a hug today.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
China is sucking the oil right out of the war and given enough time we will no longer be able to (afford) this 21st century crusade.

Toss in Venezuela who will hold back their oil, Russia sits on her oil, Iraq oil never comes to life etc etc ....

We'll be lucky if we even make the top 25 let alone be a superpower.

No it doesn't make me happy trav -- it's called reality.

Dop

naysayers, what would we do without them?

Become souless genocidal fuckwits bent on self destruction....

Originally posted by Brooks
And Japan was going to own us by 1983.
..........And..........????? (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/01/04/1073151209953.html?from=storyrhs&oneclick=true)

"Conversely, the buying of US Treasuries by East Asian central banks has slowed the slide in the US dollar. It has also maintained prices for US Treasuries, which has kept American long-term interest rates low.

So far, so good.

But some, such as Australia's top econocrat, Treasury Secretary Ken Henry, believes a dramatic crunch could come when the central banks of China and Japan decide to stop paying the bills for Greenspan and Bush."

The day has arrived.

The entire world warned bush that his warmongering behaviour was unacceptable and he refused to listen, sqawking back "who cares what you think? -- bring 'em on".

Well he called what he thought was a bluff and now, today, that bluff materializes as reality.

This shift in monetary policy signals to the rest of the civilized world "it's time -- let's roll" as the United States is gradually removed from superpower status.

Hate to tell ya "I told ya so" but WTF? "I told ya so".

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D88MNT280.htm?campaign_id=apn_home_down

Dop

you will be telling us the same shit until the day you die, and none of it will come to pass. face it dop, you suck at predicitons, you havent gotten one right yet.

He's got a point there, Dop.

Trav, Prae

I understand the rush talking points say that China and the rest of the world is of little or no consequence. All I can offer is that you brush this one off at your own peril.

Dop

Originally posted by Travh20
you will be telling us the same shit until the day you die, and none of it will come to pass. face it dop, you suck at predicitons, you havent gotten one right yet.
Description of Ad Hominem

Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:

1. Person A makes claim X.
2. Person B makes an attack on person A.
3. Therefore A's claim is false.

The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

Do you have a point Borg or is this an English 101 lesson?

Dop

No, but he was defending you, Dop - I think that should stand for something, and then you lecture him. Well Borg, I hope that taught you a valuable lesson: don't waste your time. As far as your claim about Ad Hominem attacks - I agree, but there's also something to be said for a pattern, and Dop has one when it comes to predictions.

face it dop, you suck at predicitons, you havent gotten one right yet WMDs? Iraqi resistance (instead of flowers)? Economy heading for the shithole?

Dunno if dop has been saying these but the laft has and its come true.

I don't need defending Prae and If that was borg's intent then so be it... I'm much too busy to be involved in off-topic posts at the moment.

Several of my predictions have proven true, you know it and you know that I know you know it.

Now here's another prediction ... Praetorian will support the war until the time comes that he may have to actually go over there and fight at which time he will refuse to do so and leave it up to his fellow americans to defend our country.

Dop

why dont you give us the condensed version of the "predictions that dop made that have come true"

Originally posted by Travh20
why dont you give us the condensed version of the "predictions that dop made that have come true"
Trav, here was my point: IT DOESN'T MATTER. Here's a novel idea: Try making arguments about what Dop is saying rather than against Dop himself. What predictions he's made in the past, good or bad, are completely immaterial.

no they are not borg. when a guy who is never right about things keeps insisting we take him seriously someone needs to point that out. I know damn well if a conservative was wrong aobut something it would be pointed out and scrutinized to no end, and anything he said from then on would be compared to that one wrong thing.

id have to say that anyone that madly posts thread-after-thread about how evil america is sort of dampers their ability to be trusted.... i mean if he agreed with some things, okay at least he's looking at it out of the box..... but EVERY SINGLE THING is wrong and EVERYTHING is intentional and america hates everyone and ughhhhhh..... gimme a break

Geez trav, maybe I should just stop with my opinions and predictions and bore things down a bit ... hell, we can talk about my yoga class or the latest techniques of night time yo-yo stringing or some other fascinating and thought provoking subject.

Dop

Originally posted by Travh20
you will be telling us the same shit until the day you die, and none of it will come to pass.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight........it's merely another round of Republican Deja Vu (http://www.lafn.org/politics/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.html), huh??? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Decka
id have to say that anyone that madly posts thread-after-thread about how evil america is sort of dampers their ability to be trusted....
Ah, yes.......how dare we question corporate-America's contributions to the spread of democracy (http://www.colombiajournal.org/colombia198.htm)........or, our history of conservative-compassion (http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/usgenocide/CrbnCnSthAmrc.html)?? ;)

Yeah........quite the track-record of doing the right thing (http://www.zompist.com/latam.html), there!! :@@:

do you actually think people click on those links you always insert into your sentances?