This thread arose from Stark's assertion that "atheists have faith (http://www.allforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10331&perpage=15&pagenumber=5) " and my somewhat childish responses. (Sorry Stark!)

I think it's an interesting topic and I noticed one or two others airing their view.

So here's my take on the "is atheism a religion" debate.

Beliefs.
I believe I am typing this post. I believe today is Thursday. I believe the moon is made of atoms so small they cannot be seen. I believe bbc weather forcasts, though am occasionally wrong to do so.

Why do I believe somethings and not others? I have never seen an atom and I have never seen god, yet I believe in the former.

There are various reasons I might believe something: direct experience (typing this post); indirect experience (atoms); trusted authorities (the bbc) and so on.

Faith.
Faith is belief for no reason, or despite being contrary to reason. Strong opinions based on ignorance - such as irrational prejudices - may be called faith-based.

Atheists aspire to filter their beliefs by suspending judgement until supporting or refuting evidence provides a reason to believe one way or the other.

Theists seem to celebrate faith - claiming to know god exists and loves them. If there was reason or evidence for this then religious faith would be relegated to mere religious belief.


Is atheism a religion? - no, for reasons pointed out by loki.

Can an atheist display religious characteristics? - yes. Atheists, like theists, are interested in the big questions: the origin of the universe; the origins of life; how to live a good life and so on. As loki points out, we can also being zealous advocates of our viewpoint which is a defining characteristic of religions (all be it the last and least important characteristic in the list). The admirable Richard Dawkins is a case in point. His books even have titles like "The Blindwatchmaker" and "A devil's chaplain". Richard Dawkins is someone who's word I am a bit quick to believe. If Dawkins said it it's "gospel" in my mind.

Do atheists have faith? - yes. As fallible human beings we are susceptible to unsubstantiated beliefs and prejudices (despite our best efforts.)

But when theists say "atheists have faith" they do not mean as I do that "all humans entertain irrational unsubstantiated beliefs, and atheists are human and regrettably do this too". Theists mean that the atheist's atheism itself is faith-based. This is nonsense. Atheism is not faith, it is not even belief. Atheism is no more than not having a belief in god. By this definition I assert that a newborn baby is an atheist, because that's exactly how simple the definition of an atheist is.

Nicely said.

I am not sure, but wouldn't an atheist be someone who has made a CONSCIOUS DECISION to not believe in superstition and to determin the course of their life on fact rather than faith?

In which case a newborn baby would be niether theist or atheist.

If the facts were brought forward then that is what we believe. If God came down appeared in front of me and said, I am God believe in me, then i would from that moment on believe in God because such a fact has been provided for me. The fact that he came to me. As much as this may sound like a lie, if enough facts were presented to me that God existed Id believe in it, since they cant happen i wont.

Theists however wont disbelieve in God no matter how much evidence is thrown their way.

Faith is the ability to believe without evidence, I shant do that.

Not sure what the baby point is for though?

Originally posted by Blob
so here's my take on the "is atheism a religion" debate..........Atheism is no more than not having a belief in god.

Atheism is a religion like health is a disease.

Originally posted by Echo2
I am not sure, but wouldn't an atheist be someone who has made a CONSCIOUS DECISION to not believe in superstition and to determin the course of their life on fact rather than faith?

Yeah, the baby example is contentious. That's why I used "I assert". Did you know muslims claim the same thing, that we are all muslims at birth because that is our original nature?

The point I wish to illustrate with the baby is that the word atheist can be thought of as merely a sermantic oddity. We have no specific word for not believing in ghosts or unicorns or smurfs. Yet god is a special case, presumably because of the ubiquity of god belief. The reason an atheist may feel that he positively "believes there is no god" is merely because of the existance of people who do.

Are we not equally "asmurfists"? Yet we would never feel that we positively "believe smurfs are not real".

Originally posted by Freethinker
Atheism is a religion like health is a disease.

lol.

Would that disease be composed of parasitic theistic memes by any chance?

;)

WHAT! Smurfs aren't real?? Damn, all this time I've had a crush on Papa smurf and now I find out he's not real? {sniffles and wipes her eyes}

I think, Blob, you are exactly right.
Though the point about the child is...shaky. I believe that on some deep level we know God, or, as wiser men put it, "we have a hole in a shape of God." From my standpoint, as a Christian, a baby that is born is Christian by default, simply because it was made by God and has God in it. (Jesus presents kids as an epitome of a person in Heaven)
Though, to be Christian, I think one has to make a conscience choice, which a baby can't. So I don't know....

This is a great thread, Blob! I completely agree with you! Very well said!
God Bless you all.

Any points of your own?

From my standpoint, as a Christian, a baby that is born is Christian by default, simply because it was made by God

Hmm.. a point of view that may cause a child some problems in later life, particularly in country's with other belief systems... Are they wrong or are you right?

Someone earlier metioned not being able to see atoms. Try typing in Google - "xenon, IBM, and logo". Not only can we see atoms, we are moving them about. Welcome to nanotechnology!

Theists, I thank you for your positive responses but surely your agreement does not go as far as my damning opinion of faith:

Originally posted by Blob
Faith is belief for no reason, or despite being contrary to reason. Strong opinions based on ignorance - such as irrational prejudices - may be called faith-based.