Much of the bible is about God testing people. He is not above ruining their lives (job) asking them to kill their children (book of genesis – Abraham/Isaac) and other difficult challenges to test ones faith.

God being all powerful can do anything.

Pondering that, I would like you all to consider how it would affect you if he sent Jesus back to earth as a woman or a homosexual, or a black person, or as an Arabic person, or an Asian person?

Before you start jumping on the “he wouldn’t do that” wagon, remember that god tests your faith, and he preaches acceptance, understanding, and love. This certainly would be a test of faith for the majority of Christians.

What would it take to convince you that said person really was Jesus? Would they have to perform miracles? What would they have to do for you to accept them as the child of God?

he would have to preform miracles...thats how he proved himself the first time. i think that god would do something like that. it would be something really odd but i like that idea. something to test our faith :)

Being as the first messiah was an unasumming, poor, fisherman, my guess is that the next one will come as an unasuming, poor person also. Someone with no actual political or economical power.

So this poor woman of Arabic decent turns water into wine while preaching Christianity to some people in her town in Oklahoma. How fast do you think the news will spread? How quickly do you think christian ministers would be to hail her as the next messiah?

What if some poor homosexual man of Asian decent parts the waters in Tampa bay or puget sound. How quick do you think christians would be to claim him as their messiah?

God could very well test your true christian values by sending his son in a form that would difficult to accept.

How would the evangelistic community accept the messiah under these circumstances?

they would find it extremely hard to except, but then they would start saying "Become a homosexual!! its the godly thing to do!!"
do you not agree??

Echo2.

I'm not sure where the ethnicity thing comes into it. Whilst Europe has a silly history of depicting Jesus as white with blue eyes I can't say I have ever personally come across racism amongst bible believers (and I'm a hardline atheist). I seriously doubt this would be a problem. (obviously I'm excluding silly sects like the KKK but such hate-mongerers are hardly representative of christians).

I wasn't trying to suggest that. I was trying to come up with descriptions that were out of the norm and not what would be expected.

I think it would be very difficult in this day and age for even a blue eyed, white male to convince people he was Jesus, much less a woman or minority or someone who does not fit the general image of what we are taught Jesus looked like.

For that matter, what if a person parted the red sea and performed other miricles and stated they were the son of Allah sent to save the believers?

Do you think christians would convert?

i wouldnt convert. if any christian did convert then they weren't a true christian.

Welcome Rhojura!

Originally posted by Rhojura
i wouldnt convert. if any christian did convert then they weren't a true christian.

:confused:

Have I got this right?

You're saying if allah is the one true god and mohammed is his prophet and you got the proof you wouldn't submit (convert)? I bloody well would.

Sheesh! I thought we atheists we're supposed to be the closed-minded ones.

Which is basically saying, No matter what proof is put before me im not accepting it. Ive choosen Jesus and thats that.

look at it like this. how could you easily give up something that has been told to you your entire life??

"the only thing that hurts more than the truth is that everything you've known is a lie"

Originally posted by Rhojura
look at it like this. how could you easily give up something that has been told to you your entire life??

Maybe to save your soul?

I am an atheist, but if someone claiming to be the son of (whatever god) came down to earth and performed miricles like parting the sea and such I would definately have to re-think my standing on religion.

well i dont see it as simple as you do. you have no religion you are basically in the middle. you can switch to a religion if you wanted to. i just wouldnt be able to "pick up and leave"

Originally posted by Rhojura
well i dont see it as simple as you do. you have no religion you are basically in the middle. you can switch to a religion if you wanted to. i just wouldnt be able to "pick up and leave"
What if God stopped by and said "Hey guys, I've been gone for about four thousand years, did I miss anything? How's ol' Egypt doing, hm? Well, nice dropping by...wait, the Jews have done WHAT? Claimed a messiah? Jeez, maybe I shouldn't have left...look, there is no afterlife, guys, I don't know where that idea came from...so don't both with the whole religion thing...anyway, I better go, Betelgeuse IV is expecting me...can I have a Manhattan for the road? Crown Royal, right. Thanks."

It sounds simple from where you see it but it is deaply ingrained in me that there is no god. That religion is evil and nothing but superstition. For me to suddenly determin to believe in such stuff would be devastating to me as an individual. I would probubly be extrememly confused and scarred. I would have to change the entire way I looked at the world. As a scientist this would not be easy.

Are you truly so closed mined that if someone proved to you that they were the son of Allah come to save us that you still wouldn't change your faith?

Interesting, christians call us atheists close minded for not believing on faith alone.

But I do understand your reluctance. I would be very reluctant to.

well thats simple. if it were god then i would ave to. i would have no choice to, but like i said "the only thing that hurts more than the truth is that everything you've known is a lie"

im only speaking for myself. dont take what i say as what every christian would do. i guess this is one of the only things that i am closed minded about. you learn something new everyday

I'd switch right over, that's for sure. But then again, I see Islam, Judaism, and Christianity as worshipping the same God anyway.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
I'd switch right over, that's for sure. But then again, I see Islam, Judaism, and Christianity as worshipping the same God anyway.

I agree with you... Truth is Truth... no matter the label.

But if prophecy holds true he will be a Jew again......eeer I think, I had better go look that up.

This is a silly question. I would not accept him whatever he did for two reasons:
1. The only time Christ is supposed to come again is the Second Coming and the end of this age.
2. Christ warned us about false christs who will come and convert many people.

a woman or a homosexual, or a black person, or as an Arabic person, or an Asian person?

Actually, it is considered by most that Jesus wasn't white. There is some ambiguity as to the actual color of his skin. I would not accept Him as a woman (because He is a man even in Heaven) or as a homosexual (that would just be completely wrong).

Originally posted by STOpandthink
Actually, it is considered by most that Jesus wasn't white. There is some ambiguity as to the actual color of his skin. I would not accept Him as a woman (because He is a man even in Heaven) or as a homosexual (that would just be completely wrong).

He is a man even in heaven?

I highly doubt that God is of any particular gender. Jesus may have been sent as a man because culturally that was/is the only way he would have been accepted. Was a man's world, tis a man's world but we are slowly gaining ground.


In reality, I doubt we are of any particular gender either.

and just to add...why is there ambiguity as to the colour of his skin...

He was a Jew... how ambiguous is that???

Originally posted by STOpandthink
This is a silly question. I would not accept him whatever he did for two reasons:
1. The only time Christ is supposed to come again is the Second Coming and the end of this age.
2. Christ warned us about false christs who will come and convert many people.

What if the Bible has been misinterpreted and Christ was sent before the end time? Or what if God decided that the world was so screwed up that he was sending Christ again to fix things until the end times? What if God changed his mind? Are you going to tell God that he's wrong?

Originally posted by ~Sal~
and just to add...why is there ambiguity as to the colour of his skin...

He was a Jew... how ambiguous is that???

Hmmm...

Guess which of these men is a Rabbi...

This Man?

This Man?

How about this man?

Originally posted by ~Sal~
and just to add...why is there ambiguity as to the colour of his skin...

He was a Jew... how ambiguous is that???

I'd say fairly ambiguous. :)

Originally posted by Vilepagan
I'd say fairly ambiguous. :)

Yeah ya caught me on that one... I'd say though I doubt he looked very caucasian... although.......... could be....:cool: :alien:

Why did I not come upon this topic sooner?
*scratches head*

Anyway..
First of all, nice :D topic Echo2
Your question seems to be meant as: If you were shown a miracle that would counter everything you believed it then would you convert?
Wow, a pretty strong question I have to say.

Hmmm, it's a hard desicion to make really. I don't know what I'd do, of course I'd be in denial in the beginning trying to come up with explanations for what was presented in front of me. (natural thing to do)
Then, I guess I'd :) know the truth from the lie and be thankful that I found that out.

This is not to say that I have any doubts concerning my religion, au contraire, most members here know me as a girl who strongly believes in her faith. I am also a girl who strongly believes in freedom of choice and thought..
Being raised to believe in something and then being shown evidence that counters everything you believed in ever since you were born must be the hardest thing anyone has to endure. It's better enduring that than living your life full of lies. ;) eh, Rhojura?



p.s
son of Allah? There's no such thing!

son of Allah? There's no such thing!

Yep! Bit like Jesus... no such thing.

Originally posted by crossova
Yep! Bit like Jesus... no such thing.

:D :D :D

Tell it like it is crossova!

I recognize Echo's reasoning...and on most fronts i would agree. When she talked about people calling scientists closed-minded and yet Christians are so devoted to God. The thing is, If Christians kept an open-mind about whether there is God....wouldnt that be seen as not being a true beleiver? Being a Christian is a commitment...and once you commit you don't sit around waiting for something to tell you you're wrong. It is an on-going event..... we don't know the outcome. Its like getting married, a BIG commitment....you don't wait around, keep looking at other women, and listen to people tell you why you and your wife/husband shouldn't be together.....YOU'RE COMMITTED! I would say it's the same thing with God..... as a christian, show your full trust and devotion to God.... Don't listen to the nay-sayers.....

Originally posted by Echo2
Maybe to save your soul?

I am an atheist, but if someone claiming to be the son of (whatever god) came down to earth and performed miricles like parting the sea and such I would definately have to re-think my standing on religion.

didnt you say in another forum that if God proved himself to you you still wouldnt convert b/c of how "terrible" of a God he is, etc? Maybe i just read that wrong...

You used some really interesting what ifs, especially the homosexual one but im not EVEN gonna go there here, lest I open up another can of worms...

And i find it interesting you blame god for the Job incident and find the Abraham/Isaac test so wrong? for one thing did you miss the fact that God STOPPED aBraham from doin the act? It was a test and a good one. Job's persecution came from SAtan, not God. God gave him permission to do all of that with the exception of killing Job to prove Satan's point but when it failed did God not give it all back to JOb? thats just a few instances. Im at work so im a lil hurried in my response but i just had to say something about that...

Originally posted by Jwjames111
didnt you say in another forum that if God proved himself to you you still wouldnt convert b/c of how "terrible" of a God he is, etc? Maybe i just read that wrong...

You read it right. If it turned out to be a christian god I would absolutely deny him/it/her. Christianity repulses me. But if it was another religion I would definately rethink my position. Not sure I would change, but I would re-think it.

Originally posted by Jwjames111
You used some really interesting what ifs, especially the homosexual one but im not EVEN gonna go there here, lest I open up another can of worms...

It is an interesting question though.....

Originally posted by Jwjames111
You And i find it interesting you blame god for the Job incident and find the Abraham/Isaac test so wrong? for one thing did you miss the fact that God STOPPED aBraham from doin the act? It was a test and a good one. Job's persecution came from SAtan, not God. God gave him permission to do all of that with the exception of killing Job to prove Satan's point but when it failed did God not give it all back to JOb? thats just a few instances. Im at work so im a lil hurried in my response but i just had to say something about that...

I did not BLAME anyone. I am quite aware that god gave the devil permission to torture Job. And yes, I know Isaac wasn't killed. It was still a dispicable thing to do to a father/parent.

Decka:
I would say it's the same thing with God..... as a christian, show your full trust and devotion to God.... Don't listen to the nay-sayers..
Yes, you are right. Also, we believe (and I think most Christians would agree) that we are right. There is no doubt in our minds. If I see a contradiction, I just say: "I am sure there is a reasonable way to explain it." And guess what? There always is. Not a crazy twisted tricky way, mind you, but an enlightening true way. It's like you find a piece of puzzle and suddenly the picture makes sense. That happened many times to me, so now I am not afraid of contradictions, I am sure there is an answer for them.