Today on ABC News, they announced that they Jury has finally been selected. There are:

8 men and 4 women

7 are White

4 are Hispanic

1 is Asian

Note that there are NO African Americans present . There were only two that were considered for selection and both of them were kicked off by presecutors. I don't know the reason for this, but from this selection, do you think he will get a fair trial?

michael jackson, just like oj simson, wanted to be white. so in my opinion, he has a jury of his peers. i just hate that oj didnt get an all white jury the first time. i think that the jerk is innocent. but his weirdness make him easy prey. but think about it, pedophiles never look weird. they look like your fathers, uncles, friends of the family. people you , in most cases wouldnt suspect. michael looks weird, and it makes him easy . the first kids father, was heard on tape asking michael for 5 million for a movie. michael turned him down, and the guy said that he will get the money from him somehow. the biggest mistake mike made was settling. he was told to do that by his lawyers, and now its gonna come back to haunt him. and no one is questioning the mothers letigeous past. she tried sueing every department store there is...she's trash. but she's lucky , she got the right sucker this time !

Originally posted by Dunkirk101
do you think he will get a fair trial?
Honestly, and not to be rude here, but who gives a rats ass? Jaco's a sick puppy, and generally speaking, I'm cut of the belief that if the shoe fits - wear it. As far as I'm concerned, he incriminated himself in countless interviews, buried himself with pornographic evidence, and cooked his own goose by acting like a total lunatic in public. I personally hope they fry him, eccentricities and all, but I'm not usually that lucky...

Btw, "Jesus juice"??? Wtf was that all about? Seriously, the dude's a sexual predator, and kids everywhere would be safer if he were institutionalized. Jmo...

He is just plain creapy. Sets himself up a personal amusement park to attract kids, sleeps with children and if I remember correctly he said he didn't see anything wrong with a parent allowing their young child to stay overnight with a man who had settled out of court on a child molestation charge. The guy is definately a wackjob and quite probubly a child molester.

Amen, Echo.

I think he did it.

I don't think it's possible to give him a "fair trial", though. Everybody has heard of this and has an opinion already.

We're never going to get beyond the issue of race in this country if we keep looking at things this way. The fair trial question almost assumes that this is Alabama 1950 and that the white jurors are going to send him away just because he (was) black. As long as the jury pool was representative of the population, I don't care what the final jury ends up looking like.

2 blacks in a jury pool of 50, eh? Who wouldn't strike them after O.J.?

I'm more interested in the imbalance of men and women. Would you rather have women or men on your jury if you're Jackson?

Men, without question. Women typically tend to be protective of children, and I think any mom, given the chance to protect an innocent child, would do so especially considering Jackson's crazy testimony and prior run-ins with past allegations of child molestation. Men would be more along the lines of thinking that he's being persecuted for his eccentricities and exploited for his money.

I think he is innocent.

He's an easy target, and he was accused in the 90's and it's a better case now, because now this would be the second charge. Making it seem as if he really is one.

I think the media paints him to be worse then he really is. And people just follow that. OH well. that's just me.

Last time I looked around California, I remember seeing enough African-Americans to be representative of their race on his jury.

They couldn't find one single black person that would fit on this panel??????????? WTF??????????

MJ will walk and it will be because of this racist attempt to hang him.

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
They couldn't find one single black person that would fit on this panel??????????? WTF??????????
How many black people do you think AREN'T aware of Michael Jackson's current situation? If anything, the jury should be a mix of middle aged, east Indians and Mexican women.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
MJ will walk and it will be because of this racist attempt to hang him.
It's amazing to me that people like you still exist...

You are aware of the fact that the defense team has to APPROVE the jurors before the trial starts, aren't you?

You are sooo wrong. The defense team was the one that knocked the blacks off the jury. Mainly because the majority of blacks are embarrassed by MJ. The majority of them are put off by his attempts to appear white. Here is a guy with enough money to have facial surgery to get rid of his black heritage features and skin color. Blacks find that insulting and offensive. Blacks are also a fairly religious group. His lifestyle and actions are offensive to them. The defense knows exactly what it is doing.

I didn't even think about it like that, but I see your point. Now tell it to Dop, because he's still under the impression that the entire state of Mississippi burns crosses in the yards of blacks, while in Texas, they're busy dragging 'em behind trucks. In California, well, they just like to pick racist juries, but the fact remains: whitey is out to get every one of those mud colored folk, and string 'em up! Yee Haw!

Unfortunately there are still many whites that hate blacks just because they are black. And there are many whites that are afraid of them and resent them getting equality. But times are changeing and slowly but surely people are begining to understand that dislike, fear, hatred and disgust for people different than themselves is childish and shows a very low level of maturity and understanding of the world.

I doubt the entire state of Mississippi and Texas are bigots, but having spent some time in both states I can say that they are two of the last strongholds of bigotry. They seem to have more than the ussual amount of bigots.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Last time I looked around California, I remember seeing enough African-Americans to be representative of their race on his jury.

They couldn't find one single black person that would fit on this panel??????????? WTF??????????

MJ will walk and it will be because of this racist attempt to hang him.

I think it's inherently racist to assume that everyone in society is unable to think in terms other than race. For a supposed non-racist you sure think about it alot.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
We're never going to get beyond the issue of race in this country if we keep looking at things this way. The fair trial question almost assumes that this is Alabama 1950 and that the white jurors are going to send him away just because he (was) black. As long as the jury pool was representative of the population, I don't care what the final jury ends up looking like.

This fine citizen has underlined the point with the following post:

Originally posted by Leper
2 blacks in a jury pool of 50, eh? Who wouldn't strike them after O.J.?

So Lionel, as enlightened as you think you are, there are plenty of Lepers out there to keep the shit stirred up.

(Racism is as Ameican as apple pie. All Americans are racist, even the minorities.

Just because we look at the world race-first doesn't mean we have to try to kill each other. Racism does not have to equal discrimination or hate crimes.

You can prefer one type of people over another and still be polite and reasonable.)

Rich people have a way of getting away with shit "It don't matter if you're Black or White"

Originally posted by Echo2
Unfortunately there are still many whites that hate blacks just because they are black.
On the whole, I don't think so. Of course, don't get me wrong, the people whom you described do still exist, however, I think the frustration and anger stems from certain individuals refusing to speak properly, dress nicely, or work hard. This new genre of gangster rap "Escalade driving, bling-bling, Jacob and Co. watch wearing, cop killas" piss people off, and don't be surprised when some of them voice resentment because of it. The problem with whites displaying any disapproval is that their argument is usually met with a huge dose of name calling, and blame placing, and neither tactic is acceptable or appropriate in today's society. People like Ed Blank expect you to feel like you're a current slave owner, and that shit just doesn't fly anymore. Some whites are pissed off, and to be completely honest, they have every right to be. I’ve witnessed an enormous amount of "acceptable racism" in the guise of movies being titled "white men can't jump" and pageants designated "for blacks only". How do you think the blacks would feel if a movie came out titled “Blacks can’t read”, or if a Miss WHITE America were to suddenly surface? I hear certain assholes say things like it’s their turn now, which TOTALLY dismisses the fact that racism in any shape or form is destructive, and that’s the reason we SHOULDN’T DO IT ANYMORE. If there’s any form of OVERT racism in today’s day in age, it’s directed towards white males under the guise of being acceptable and deserved. All I know is that I was born into a loving family that happened to be white, and all the sudden I'm a fucking race trading, slave owning, opportunist. Wtf.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
If there’s any form of OVERT racism in today’s day in age, it’s directed towards white males under the guise of being acceptable and deserved. All I know is that I was born into a loving family that happened to be white, and all the sudden I'm a fucking race trading, slave owning, opportunist. Wtf.

The rest of the country is getting pretty tired of hearing about how picked on white males are. They make more than women and minorities and they have more opportunities than women and monorities. There are more white males running our government, more white males running our large companies and more white males running our news media. White males have ruled the majority of Europe for centuries and north America since they landed here.

You feel picked on because you are experiencing a glitch in the "white males dominate the world" attitude that has been going on for thousands of years.

Would you like some bread with that whine?

Originally posted by The Praetorian
On the whole, I don't think so. Of course, don't get me wrong, the people whom you described do still exist, however, I think the frustration and anger stems from certain individuals refusing to speak properly, dress nicely, or work hard. This new genre of gangster rap "Escalade driving, bling-bling, Jacob and Co. watch wearing, cop killas" piss people off, and don't be surprised when some of them voice resentment because of it. The problem with whites displaying any disapproval is that their argument is usually met with a huge dose of name calling, and blame placing, and neither tactic is acceptable or appropriate in today's society. People like Ed Blank expect you to feel like you're a current slave owner, and that shit just doesn't fly anymore. Some whites are pissed off, and to be completely honest, they have every right to be. I’ve witnessed an enormous amount of "acceptable racism" in the guise of movies being titled "white men can't jump" and pageants designated "for blacks only". How do you think the blacks would feel if a movie came out titled “Blacks can’t read”, or if a Miss WHITE America were to suddenly surface? I hear certain assholes say things like it’s their turn now, which TOTALLY dismisses the fact that racism in any shape or form is destructive, and that’s the reason we SHOULDN’T DO IT ANYMORE. If there’s any form of OVERT racism in today’s day in age, it’s directed towards white males under the guise of being acceptable and deserved. All I know is that I was born into a loving family that happened to be white, and all the sudden I'm a fucking race trading, slave owning, opportunist. Wtf.

I don't want you to feel like a slave owner. The kinds of things that I bring up are current. For instance:

Hip Hop isn't just Black. There are plenty of middle Americans who promote the whole "bling bling" shit. In fact Hip Hop would have never seen the light of the pop culture day if it wasn't for middle class white people. Run DMC first went platinum on the strength of sales to whites. A trend which continues with every popular Hip Hop act to this day.

Europeans are especially warlike. You have dominated the world and forced non-Europeans to serve you at every corner of the Earth. Your comfortable existence was purchased with blood and you still profit to this day from the crimes of your ancestors. The money that Eurpoeans inherit and bequeath is stolen property.

I don't expect you to feel bad. Christopher Columbus didn't feel bad.

Originally posted by Echo2
The rest of the country is getting pretty tired of hearing about how picked on white males are.
You must be joking...

We're probably the only ones who DON'T complain despite being maligned on a continual basis by black comics, entertainers, colleges, and social institutions.
Originally posted by Echo2
They make more than women and minorities and they have more opportunities than women and monorities.
Yeah, and we've always worked. Women and minorities, on the other hand, haven't - and to be completely honest, some still don't because we're footing the biggest bill. What's your point?
Originally posted by Echo2
White males have ruled the majority of Europe for centuries and north America since they landed here.
And why shouldn't they when it was white males who conceptualized everything from America's foundation to it's business strategy, and development? Oh, and yeah, they also built the powerhouse that is Northern and Western Europe, but I suppose they should have to share that, too.
Originally posted by Echo2
You feel picked on because you are experiencing a glitch in the "white males dominate the world" attitude that has been going on for thousands of years.
Nonsense. My gripe is over equality, and if all things were to be considered TRULY equal, then no one should be given special treatment because of their skin color. Right now I could write a staggeringly long list of special treatment opportunities minorities receive while whites don't. Now please do me a favor and tell me how that's EQUAL opportunity in any way, shape, or form?

Originally posted by Ed Blank
Europeans are especially warlike. You have dominated the world and forced non-Europeans to serve you at every corner of the Earth. Your comfortable existence was purchased with blood and you still profit to this day from the crimes of your ancestors. The money that Eurpoeans inherit and bequeath is stolen property.
I love it...we're not enterprising; we're "warlike". Classic.

Ed - Do not blame the child for their fathers warlike acts unless the child picks up the banner and marches along with him.

During the big slave trade era, many tribes in africa would make war on their neigboring tribes and then sell the prisoners to the white slavers. Do you hold this against the sons of those blacks?

I come from poor Irish immigrants. Probubly one of the few European societies that didn't march off to overtake other lands and people.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
I think it's inherently racist to assume that everyone in society is unable to think in terms other than race. For a supposed non-racist you sure think about it alot.

That statement makes no sense at all therefore I won't address it.

Anyway -- question to Lionel ... if you were on trial as a white male (assuming that's what you are) and there wasn't a single white male on the jury ... would you be happy with the jury?

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Anyway -- question to Lionel ... if you were on trial as a white male (assuming that's what you are) and there wasn't a single white male on the jury ... would you be happy with the jury?
Dop. Jackson (or his attorney(s)) APPROVED the jury. If Jackson and his lawyers have no problem with it, why should you?

DOP - The defense team was the one that knocked the blacks off the jury. Mainly because the majority of blacks dislike MJ. The majority of them are put off by his attempts to appear white. The guy had facial surgery to get rid of his black heritage features and skin color. Blacks find that insulting and offensive. The defense knows exactly what it is doing. This is a cause that doesn't need to be fought.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Dop. Jackson (or his attorney(s)) APPROVED the jury. If Jackson and his lawyers have no problem with it, why should you?

LOL ... of course they approved ... they'll take a mis-trial if they don't win or take a win in the apellate courts ... both of which are very likely with this jury.

This trial will cost the CA tax payers big money that would be better spent on education and health care. Instead, we're setting up for mis-trials which means multiple trials which will cost even more money. Won't even mention the cost of security and general policing.

That's why.

Dop

Echo

You apparently haven't been around any white guys when MJ's name comes up. They want to see the guy fry. Believe me, he'd be better off taking his chances with the bruthas than the knuckledraggers.

And the very reason that you point out is a valid reason for a mis-trial or a overturn in appeals court ... the jury was selected on the basis of race. (regardless of the reasons and regardless of who approved).

Dop

You are right about it being a mistrial for whatever reason race was used.

However I do not hold out any hope of finding the truth about MJ. He is rich and he is black and he is famous. We have all seen the results of that combination in the OJ trial. The truth will be smothered with inuendos about race, about wealth, about fame.

After hearing him speak in interviews about his views in children, I wouldn't let a kid withing 100 yards of him. Is he guilty? I don't know.

Agree Echo -- it's all entertainment since the OJ trial.

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Echo

You apparently haven't been around any white guys when MJ's name comes up. They want to see the guy fry. Believe me, he'd be better off taking his chances with the bruthas than the knuckledraggers.

Dop
So all white guys are "knuckledraggers" now, ay Dop?

You know, you’re irredeemably maladjusted, conglomerate of intellectual constipation. You also happen to ooze of blatant hypocrisy and racism, and yet, somehow - you're completely comfortable with that fact...

I just do NOT understand you, my friend.

Originally posted by Echo2
You are right about it being a mistrial for whatever reason race was used.

However I do not hold out any hope of finding the truth about MJ. He is rich and he is black and he is famous. We have all seen the results of that combination in the OJ trial. The truth will be smothered with inuendos about race, about wealth, about fame.

After hearing him speak in interviews about his views in children, I wouldn't let a kid withing 100 yards of him. Is he guilty? I don't know.

LOL, ya, there are only 2 rich famous black guys in america, OJ and MJ, and we know what happend to OJ

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
LOL ... of course they approved ... they'll take a mis-trial if they don't win or take a win in the apellate courts ... both of which are very likely with this jury.

This trial will cost the CA tax payers big money that would be better spent on education and health care. Instead, we're setting up for mis-trials which means multiple trials which will cost even more money. Won't even mention the cost of security and general policing.

That's why.

Dop
The judge would NEVER grant a mistrial. As I said, Jackson approved the jury. You can't argue a bad jury if the defense picked it.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
The judge would NEVER grant a mistrial. As I said, Jackson approved the jury. You can't argue a bad jury if the defense picked it.

Exactly correct - thank you.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
That statement makes no sense at all therefore I won't address it.

OK, let's make it easy - it's a rather racist sentiment to assume that all white people (although I assume you give yourself a pass) want black people dead. I'd like to see someone suggest in this forum that all blacks want whites dead and see what happens.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Anyway -- question to Lionel ... if you were on trial as a white male (assuming that's what you are) and there wasn't a single white male on the jury ... would you be happy with the jury?


The only possible situation in which I wouldn't be is if I was on trial for some sort of race-based crime and there were no white people (not even women) at all. Seeing as how MJ isn't on trial for a racial crime, I don't see the problem.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
OK, let's make it easy - you, Dop, are racist because you think all white people want to kill blacks. Well maybe not all - I assume you give yourself a free pass.
Exactly what I was telling him earlier. Thank you, Lionel.

Come on, we all know the REAL bad guys are the French.
LOL

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Exactly what I was telling him earlier. Thank you, Lionel.

Damn, I knew someone would quote me before I retracted that. Well Dop, I don't think you're a racist, but you are spouting some rather racist nonsense.

If he doesn't get a fair trial it will have nothing to do with race.

He has hung himself publicly over and over again. After his interview with Bashir (sp) he looked incredibly bad. No, that is a gross understatement; after his interview he looked pathetic and disgusting.

I don't even want to think about what this trial may dredge up in terms of victims. There is nothing lower than a pedophile.

I can't believe they could find 12 people:white, black, brown or red that could look at him and not hurl.

Impartial...if I were him and they offered me 12 people that were purple and impartial hell, I would grab them.

Guilty!!!

This doesn't make any sense!

Lionel and Praetorian can't argue the point of law so they call me a racist. So what's new? -- seems though every topic I get called a new name and pick up a new label and it's always from the same people, albeit this time they have a new recruit -- Lionel.

I guess their plan is to attack on many fronts with many names and slanderous labels to create a perception of them winning the debate when they never debated to start with .... ROTF.

Let's go over it again ...

Jury selection cannot be based on race and if it is, for any reason and regardless of who approves of it -- it is grounds for a mistrial.

What's the argument against a mistrial going to be? Well, we knew it was illegal to pick the jury based on race but we all agreed on it so we figured it would be alright.

Well heck, it's illegal to rob a bank but I guess if we agree on it we might as well go ahead and do it. ROTFLMAO.

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Lionel and Praetorian can't argue the point of law so they call me a racist. So what's new? -- seems though every topic I get called a new name and pick up a new label and it's always from the same people, albeit this time they have a new recruit -- Lionel.

Oh boo hoo. You've called entire swaths of the United States racist on multiple occasions. And you're saying that all of the white jurors are incapable of judging Michael Jackson based on the evidence - they're going to hang him because he's black (sort of). That's a racist sentiment.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
I guess their plan is to attack on many fronts with many names and slanderous labels to create a perception of them winning the debate when they never debated to start with .... ROTF.

I've been debating this entire time. If we're so wrong, why don't you explain to me why instead of moaning and groaning about the injustice of it all. Please explain to me why assuming that all whites want to kill blacks isn't racist. And feel free to explain why this "plan" is any different than the one you use to slander the entire southern part of the U.S., most of Ohio, Sacramento, and any other part of the U.S. you feel is occupied by murderous NASCAR-watching rednecks.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Jury selection cannot be based on race and if it is, for any reason and regardless of who approves of it -- it is grounds for a mistrial.

Correct, except for the regardless of who approves it part. Defense counsel can't set itself up for a mistrial. And they have to object now in order to preserve the issue for review. And if they object now, the judge is going to ask them why they were the ones that dismissed the blacks from the jury. In other words, that ain't gonna fly. Plus, the mere fact that there are no blacks on the jury alone isn't proof of racial motivations. The defense would have to show that the prosecution got rid of the blacks for purely racial reasons. Again, since the defense did it, that won't fly. About the only way to appeal this issue would be to argue ineffective assistance of counsel. Which is a tough argument to win when you've got a buttload of high-priced defense attorneys working for you.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Well heck, it's illegal to rob a bank but I guess if we agree on it we might as well go ahead and do it. ROTFLMAO.

Call the California Supreme Court - they'll probably admit you to the bar without an exam based on your stunning logic.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
Correct, except for the regardless of who approves it part. Defense counsel can't set itself up for a mistrial. And they have to object now in order to preserve the issue for review. And if they object now, the judge is going to ask them why they were the ones that dismissed the blacks from the jury. In other words, that ain't gonna fly. Plus, the mere fact that there are no blacks on the jury alone isn't proof of racial motivations. The defense would have to show that the prosecution got rid of the blacks for purely racial reasons. Again, since the defense did it, that won't fly. About the only way to appeal this issue would be to argue ineffective assistance of counsel. Which is a tough argument to win when you've got a buttload of high-priced defense attorneys working for you.


Nice post Lionel. I am curious to know...how many high-priced defense attorneys are there in a buttload? :D

Originally posted by LionelHutz
Oh boo hoo. You've called entire swaths of the United States racist on multiple occasions. And you're saying that all of the white jurors are incapable of judging Michael Jackson based on the evidence - they're going to hang him because he's black (sort of). That's a racist sentiment.


My statements in the past have been in general and IIRC have never been personally directed at Lionel so don't give me the crap that you have the right to toss names and labels my way because I did it to you. That's bull.

And you do know that in the state of California, whites are the minority -- don't you? Yet they make up 75% of MJ's jury?????

ROTFLMAO at that one.

Dop

Lionel says:

"Defense counsel can't set itself up for a mistrial"

And just why can't defense set themselves up for a mistrial?

Unless there is some law or procedural rule that disallows that gambit, I see no way in hell the defense can be stopped from that exact move or any other move that helps defense get the results they want.

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Unless there is some law or procedural rule that disallows that gambit, I see no way in hell the defense can be stopped from that exact move or any other move that helps defense get the results they want.

There is in fact such a rule. It's one of the basic rules of law - you can't get relief from the court for a problem you caused yourself. All of the court decisions I'm aware that involved questionable dismissals of jurors all involved misconduct or alleged misconduct by the prosecution. The defense possibly could argue that the poor of jurors they were selecting from was deficient in some way thus making it impossible to dismiss jurors they didn't like and still come up with a representative jury, but they better be making that argument now, otherwise they won't be able to make it later.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
My statements in the past have been in general and IIRC have never been personally directed at Lionel so don't give me the crap that you have the right to toss names and labels my way because I did it to you. That's bull.

I personally don't see the difference, but whatever. Look, I changed my original post calling you a racist right after I posted it because I was mad when I wrote it and I don't actually think you're a racist. So I apologize for that. Really. But I absolutely stand by my belief that assuming all whites want MJ to fry because he's black is a racist sentiment. And you still haven't explained to me why it isn't.

Originally posted by Vilepagen
I am curious to know...how many high-priced defense attorneys are there in a buttload?

At least four, but(t) it really depends on the butt.

Do you guys think he is guilty based on what you've heard? I'm sure that because of it being so widely publicized, that may be an issue for appeal if he's found guilty. Whattya think?
I think the apeman is guilty. He's just too out there. And his disturbing acceptance of a non-parental adult sleeping arrangements with a child makes me shudder. (Hell, even some parental sleep situations are a bit creepy too.)

And, in light of all of our comments, just think about it. We're making OUR predictions based on the information that was publicized and discussed by MJ himself. I think it strange if the jurors didn't begin with a non-biased opinion anyway. (Unless they were sleeping under a rock for all of this time.)

Fair enough Lionel and thanks for the informative post.

Let me put it this way -- every white male I know wants MJ to fry. Thats the premise of my statement. No more, no less.

Dop

Originally posted by saycricket
Do you guys think he is guilty based on what you've heard?

Based on what I've heard? Guilty. But I'm sure I haven't heard everything. Plus the prosecutor was clearly out to get MJ. Which doesn't automatically mean these are trumped up charges, but it's not completely out of the question.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Fair enough Lionel and thanks for the informative post.

Let me put it this way -- every white male I know wants MJ to fry. Thats the premise of my statement. No more, no less.

Dop

Doesn't mean it has anything to do with the colour of his skin. I'm a white female and currently I want him to fry. I couldn't care less what colour he is.

From his interviews in which he speaks of his behavior, and his public presentation and them finding an alert-alarm to warn him when someone approaches his bedroom door, and loads of porn on his computer, I think he is guilty.

If he is not, it would be a travesty to find him so. If he is, he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law whether he is MJ and talented and rich enough to hire the best lawyers or not.

Not everything is about race or colour or economic situation, sometimes it is... but it is assumptive to assume everything is. Everyone has a right to an opinion without motive being assigned willy- nilly.

Originally posted by ~Sal~

I'm a white female and currently I want him to fry.

I think he is guilty.


Betcha MJ is glad you're not on his jury.

You never met the guy, you don't know anything more about him personally than what you see on entertainment weekly and FOX news, you take the word of the media about the evidence rather than make them prove it in court .... and you openly state you want the man to fry with no apparent regard for a fair trial.

Back to what I previously stated that brought on the deluge of Dop is a racist remarks -- I'll say it again ...

"I have yet to meet one white male (and now females) that doesn't want MJ to fry -- they all have him guilty without trial"

That's all I said and no one, so far, including you Sal, has even remotely come close to proving me wrong on that statement.

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Let me put it this way -- every white male I know wants MJ to fry. Thats the premise of my statement. No more, no less.
My gut feeling is that Jackson is guilty, but I have not come to any sort of conclusion about the case yet. After all, the arguing and such hasn't even started yet...

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Betcha MJ is glad you're not on his jury.

You never met the guy, you don't know anything more about him personally than what you see on entertainment weekly and FOX news, you take the word of the media about the evidence rather than make them prove it in court .... and you openly state you want the man to fry with no apparent regard for a fair trial.

Back to what I previously stated that brought on the deluge of Dop is a racist remarks -- I'll say it again ...

"I have yet to meet one white male (and now females) that doesn't want MJ to fry -- they all have him guilty without trial"

That's all I said and no one, so far, including you Sal, has even remotely come close to proving me wrong on that statement.

Dop

I have never met the man and I still respect his talent as an artist.

This is not based on what I have seen on entertainment weekly or Fox news OR the colour of his skin. The man is one very sick, very messed individual. I thought that years ago when Oprah Winfrey first interviewed him. (Look who he hangs with for God sake. Elizabeth Taylor...) Ok that was a little joke.

I am basing this purely on his presentation in two separate interviews. It is an opinion based on my gut intuition and my intuition is seldom wrong about people. It is an opinion I have formed from listening to him speak with Oprah Winfrey and Bashir. He presented like someone with an arrested development problem.

What kind of man wants little boys in his bedroom all night?

Would you have allowed your little boy to have sleep-overs in his room. I don't bloody think so.

I do have regard for a fair trial. But currently from what I have seen and read about what was removed from his house and the interviews done with former employees my current opinion is .. guilty.

I am not saying you are a racist but that your conclusion drawn from what people had stated was invalid.

Good post Sal. Especially the "I don't bloody think so" part. :)

Add cricket to the list of white people that have MJ guilty without trial and Cricket -- thank you for helping prove my point (and the topic of this thread) being that MJ will not get a fair trail because the jury is 75% white (in a state where whites are the minority-- ROTFLMAO).

I need go no further than the responses on this very forum -- every white person that resonded so far has him guilty without trial.

"your honor -- the defense now rests his case and puts the defendant at the mercy of the cracker jury."

:rolleyes:

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Fair enough Lionel and thanks for the informative post.

Let me put it this way -- every white male I know wants MJ to fry. Thats the premise of my statement. No more, no less.

Dop


most of us want all child molestors to fry dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Add cricket to the list of white people that have MJ guilty without trial and Cricket -- thank you for helping prove my point (and the topic of this thread) being that MJ will not get a fair trail because the jury is 75% white (in a state where whites are the minority-- ROTFLMAO).

I need go no further than the responses on this very forum -- every white person that resonded so far has him guilty without trial.

"your honor -- the defense now rests his case and puts the defendant at the mercy of the cracker jury."

:rolleyes:

Dop

interesting that a 75% white jury means guilty and also equals a cracker jury... do you know something about the white people on that jury that we do not... other than their skin colour?

Uh ... understand that trav and so do I but 2 things ...

1) Frying CM's is not the topic of the thread -- it's whether or not MJ can get a fair trial.

2) Maybe we should give him a fair trial before we fry him -- it's the american way.

Dop

i believe that if MJ were white ( oh, wait....nevermind ), in this case, he'd recieve the same treatment. i think that our world is set up to love the negative press. as they put it, " it sells papers". no one wants to hear good news, its boring. my proof is the robert blake case, i think that when it gets going in the media, he will be found guilty in the court of public opinion. my problem with the MJ case is, people forget that child molestation is a sickness. most of these guys molest VERY frequently. MJ's cases have come from some very seedy parents, which makes me wonder if this is not just another notch in our letigeous way of life. people love to sue, and its just funny to me, that none of these parents seem to use common sense. i have daughters, and they wont get out of my sight until they reach blackbelt status, which is at the age of 18, according to their sensei. like i said before, molesters never look weird, they dont talk weird, and they dont prey on cancer patients. i believe that in lue of the way MJ acts, he deserves this, but i just think that there would have been hundreds more in the time frame of the first one. a true pedophile cant stop it, its a sickness. i mean, one molested child is enough, but not to a molester......just my opinion

oh, and i also, for some reason , think that he will get a fair trial. jurors seem to take their job seriously. and this is not a white cop beating on a black man trial.

Korg

Sounds like you're doing a great job raising those daughters .. keep up the good work ... I know it's not easy.

Now, having said that the niceties are over ...

Put the kool aid down and slowly back away. You need to sober up dude and smell the river (Tom Hanks ~ Volunteers).

The MJ jurors are mostly white and no different than what we see right here on AllForums where the consensus of whites is that MJ is guilty and needs to fry -- no trial necessary.

Those jurors have all sworn that they can and will give MJ a fair trial but I am willing to bet each and every one of them that ever posted on a forum (like this one) has explicitly expounded (too many x's?) his/her feeling similar to what we have heard here ... two different people -- MJ haters in real life -- gold-digging straight-up fair citizens during the trial.

In staying with the topic of the thread -- No way does the dude get a fair trail.

Whites decide -- Jackson fried.

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
I need go no further than the responses on this very forum -- every white person that resonded so far has him guilty without trial.
Dop, I'm white...not that I see what race has to do with anything...

OMFG - Dop and his slogans. LMAO! And, where did I ever tell you I was white? (I am, btw). And, Dop, I think I tend to agree with you. I think that a lot of whites (and blacks too, for that matter) do want to see him fry because the media (like Korg said) plays him off to be a horrific, disgusting pedophile. However, a lot of Jackson's own actions and statements have painted himself into a corner as well.

When it comes to children, we are very quick to believe rumors and ridicule because the act of child molestation in our eyes IS very disturbing and disgusting. Hence, the perp must also be disturbing and disgusting.

But Dop, surely you cannot say that you haven't formed some sort of opinion on his guilt/innocence based on the media and Jackson himself? You are white. Aside from this thread and your attempt to prove a point, what is your unqualified opinion now - before the trial? Guilty or Innocent? Before OJ's trial, I thought he was innocent based on the way the media portrayed it initially after the murders. After the trial and after reading several of the multitude of books written by nearly everyone, my opinion drastically changed when I absorbed the evidence.

Back to MJ, wasn't the local law changed because of the first Jackson case - so that he couldn't pay off anyone again to make it "go away"? This is a criminal case so I don't think he'll be paying the vic's family off at all.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Korg

Sounds like you're doing a great job raising those daughters .. keep up the good work ... I know it's not easy.

Now, having said that the niceties are over ...

Put the kool aid down and slowly back away. You need to sober up dude and smell the river (Tom Hanks ~ Volunteers).

The MJ jurors are mostly white and no different than what we see right here on AllForums where the consensus of whites is that MJ is guilty and needs to fry -- no trial necessary.

Those jurors have all sworn that they can and will give MJ a fair trial but I am willing to bet each and every one of them that ever posted on a forum (like this one) has explicitly expounded (too many x's?) his/her feeling similar to what we have heard here ... two different people -- MJ haters in real life -- gold-digging straight-up fair citizens during the trial.

In staying with the topic of the thread -- No way does the dude get a fair trail.

Whites decide -- Jackson fried.

Dop knowing racism like i do, i more than know that it still exist, but i just dont think that MJ will be found guilty because he's black. i think that a lot of people think that he is as weird as it gets. remember the thriller album, ? if he still looked like that, he wouldnt be going to trial.....i really believe that. they are after him because he put the w in weird......not because of black....not this time.

Out of curiosity Dop, are you convinced he's innocent, or just not sure yet? And would a jury that was all black be "fair"?

Regardless, you need to hang out with some different people. All of the opinions people have expressed to me generally reflect a sense that he's guilty, but certainly no suggestion that no trial is necessary or even that they've heard all of the evidence.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Korg


Put the kool aid down and slowly back away. now thats some funny shit dop....rotflmao for real:D

Borg

The question is whether Jackson can get a fair trail -- not whether you are white. So, could you sit on the Jackson panel and judge him fairly with an open mind and without prejudice -- without that inner feeling that you have to get even for the children? Be honest now.
==================

Originally posted by saycricket
OMFG - Dop and his slogans. LMAO! And, where did I ever tell you I was white? (I am, btw). And, Dop, I think I tend to agree with you. I think that a lot of whites (and blacks too, for that matter) do want to see him fry because the media (like Korg said) plays him off to be a horrific, disgusting pedophile. However, a lot of Jackson's own actions and statements have painted himself into a corner as well.

When it comes to children, we are very quick to believe rumors and ridicule because the act of child molestation in our eyes IS very disturbing and disgusting. Hence, the perp must also be disturbing and disgusting.

But Dop, surely you cannot say that you haven't formed some sort of opinion on his guilt/innocence based on the media and Jackson himself? You are white. Aside from this thread and your attempt to prove a point, what is your unqualified opinion now - before the trial? Guilty or Innocent? Before OJ's trial, I thought he was innocent based on the way the media portrayed it initially after the murders. After the trial and after reading several of the multitude of books written by nearly everyone, my opinion drastically changed when I absorbed the evidence.

Back to MJ, wasn't the local law changed because of the first Jackson case - so that he couldn't pay off anyone again to make it "go away"? This is a criminal case so I don't think he'll be paying the vic's family off at all.

We all want to protect the children.

Yes I have formed an opinion and if I was in the jury pool I would tell them precisely that and be sent packing.

Seems though you cite the law pretty close but that only covers direct payoffs. Each panelist will have more than one opportunity to make money off being on the MJ jury. You can bet on it.

The media -- they're scum. They told us Saddam had WMD's and they stuck to their stories right up until recently. After lieing to the public, which resulted in thousands of deaths, why would I (or anyone ever listen to them again)?

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Korg

Sounds like you're doing a great job raising those daughters .. keep up the good work ... I know it's not easy.

Now, having said that the niceties are over ...

Put the kool aid down and slowly back away. You need to sober up dude and smell the river (Tom Hanks ~ Volunteers).

The MJ jurors are mostly white and no different than what we see right here on AllForums where the consensus of whites is that MJ is guilty and needs to fry -- no trial necessary.

Those jurors have all sworn that they can and will give MJ a fair trial but I am willing to bet each and every one of them that ever posted on a forum (like this one) has explicitly expounded (too many x's?) his/her feeling similar to what we have heard here ... two different people -- MJ haters in real life -- gold-digging straight-up fair citizens during the trial.

In staying with the topic of the thread -- No way does the dude get a fair trail.

Whites decide -- Jackson fried.

Dop

Fuck right off with your racism shit. If MJ is quilty which i think he probably is he will go down for being a sick sick barstard and not because he used to be black a few years ago. Micheal Jackson is far too famous to be seen as a black man. He is an icon, Probably the biggest ever and is known as micheal Jackson, The high pitched twat who ruined his face and skin!! Not a rich black man who we need to take down in order to push forward white supremicy!!! Total Bollox

Why is Micheal Jackson Like Santa, Both leave little boys rooms with empty sacks!!!


Love it!!

You seem to know quite a bit about little boy's rooms.

Speaking from experience are ya?

Love the accent.

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
You seem to know quite a bit about little boy's rooms.

Speaking from experience are ya?

Love the accent.

Dop

Well done, You are a funny guy, Hilarious, Totally origional, Like , "i know you are i said you are but what am i!!" sort of joke just pulled out of the blue, I didn't see that coming!!

Just brilliant, Can i hear some more please dop, Cos that my yank friend was fucking A

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Borg

The question is whether Jackson can get a fair trail -- not whether you are white. So, could you sit on the Jackson panel and judge him fairly with an open mind and without prejudice -- without that inner feeling that you have to get even for the children? Be honest now.
Of course. Even people who we know have killed people (Osama bin Laden, Saddam, etc.) should get a fair trial. And I believe I could easily look at the facts of the case objectively. Hell, I did that for the Scott Peterson thing, and even though my gut feeling was that he did it, I still thought he should have been acquitted, because the prosecution failed to convince me that he did it. Even though I thought he did.

I know enough to know that "gut feelings" and such should be left on the steps of the courthouse. None of them allowed inside. And that's the way it should be.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Of course. Even people who we know have killed people (Osama bin Laden, Saddam, etc.) should get a fair trial. And I believe I could easily look at the facts of the case objectively. Hell, I did that for the Scott Peterson thing, and even though my gut feeling was that he did it, I still thought he should have been acquitted, because the prosecution failed to convince me that he did it. Even though I thought he did.

I know enough to know that "gut feelings" and such should be left on the steps of the courthouse. None of them allowed inside. And that's the way it should be.

It just these twats trying to turn this trial inot another black america vs white america court case. Which is just bollox, there is no other way to phrase it!!

Borg - good point on the Peterson thing. I always thought he was guilty, but to give him death based on the evidence they presented shocked the hell out of me.

I do believe that Jackson will get a fair trial, and although I hate to admit it, I think Dop is right. Inevitably there will be books written, TV interviews, and the like. Jurors, investigators, attorneys, etc. will be reaping the rewards of this case. But, if I were a juror, I would have to be convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was guilty. Not like the Peterson case.

Originally posted by Echo2
Ed - Do not blame the child for their fathers warlike acts unless the child picks up the banner and marches along with him.

During the big slave trade era, many tribes in africa would make war on their neigboring tribes and then sell the prisoners to the white slavers. Do you hold this against the sons of those blacks?

I come from poor Irish immigrants. Probubly one of the few European societies that didn't march off to overtake other lands and people.

If you are a middle class white person who inherited money from your parents, that wealth was likely generated with slavery and genocide.

You don't renounce the wealth, so you are a participant.

I don't want you to do anything except face this fact.

If you are a middle class white person who inherited money from your parents, that wealth was likely generated with slavery and genocide.

You don't renounce the wealth, so you are a participant.

I don't want you to do anything except face this fact. I think you're in the wrong thread Ed. :)

Originally posted by Ed Blank
If you are a middle class white person who inherited money from your parents, that wealth was likely generated with slavery and genocide.
No offense, but you're completely ignorant. I don't know about your parents, but mine WORKED FOR A LIVING. In the case of my Grandfather, he had a seventh grade education, didn't speak English all that well, and delivered milk for 10 years while saving up enough money to start his own business. By 1950, he was a millionaire. Now please tell me how in the hell that DIRECTLY relates to slavery and genocide on a personal level? I'm all ears...

Originally posted by Ed Blank
If you are a middle class white person who inherited money from your parents, that wealth was likely generated with slavery and genocide.

My father didn't make his money buying and selling slaves, and his father was a lumberjack, so what the heck are you talking about?

On the subject of this thread, I'd have to say that anyone who decides a person's guilt or innocence on the basis of what they hear or see in the media, needs to have their head examined. That being said, any parent who lets their child sleep at a man's house, after that man has been accused of child molestation, also needs to have their head examined.

The truth is that the media is going to portray him as guilty because that sells more papers/advertising. I don't care to make any judgements on MJ's guilt or innocence based on what the media is trying to sell. Btw Dop, I'm white.

But you're not on MJ's jury.

Dop

What's your point?

Originally posted by LionelHutz
We're never going to get beyond the issue of race in this country if we keep looking at things this way. The fair trial question almost assumes that this is Alabama 1950 and that the white jurors are going to send him away just because he (was) black. As long as the jury pool was representative of the population, I don't care what the final jury ends up looking like.


amen....took the words out of my mouth...

also, i have a different perspective on this: isn;t it possible that an all black jury would work against him becasue the black community dislikes him for DYING HIS SKIN WHITE??

Lionel - How is a 75% white jury representative of the population when California is less than 50% white?

Whammy - great idea ... let's not put any blacks on the jury that hate MJ enough to find him guilty -- let's put all whites on the jury that hate him enough to find him guilty.

Dop

From what I've gathered, the blacks hate him as much as the whites think he's a mentally unhinged, noseless lunatic who has a penchant for sleeping with young kids by his own admission.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing


Whammy - great idea ... let's not put any blacks on the jury that hate MJ enough to find him guilty -- let's put all whites on the jury that hate him enough to find him guilty.

Dop


the point I'm trying to make is that its really irrelevent what the race of the jurors is...unless you've been living under a rock, you know who michael jackson, have heard something about this case, and have some sort of opinion about him.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Whammy - great idea ... let's not put any blacks on the jury that hate MJ enough to find him guilty -- let's put all whites on the jury that hate him enough to find him guilty.
Do you have evidence that all twelve jurors hate him? Or is this just conjecture?

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Do you have evidence that all twelve jurors hate him? Or is this just conjecture?
What do you think? Only gun toting, KKK laden, rednecks can generalize as well as Dop can.

Do you have proof that all blacks hate MJ and had to be tossed off the jury or is that just conjecture?

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Lionel - How is a 75% white jury representative of the population when California is less than 50% white?

I said the pool of jurors, not the jury.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Do you have evidence that all twelve jurors hate him? Or is this just conjecture?

Haven't you been paying attention? All of Dop's friends hate MJ, therefore the jury will find him guilty because he's black.

JFC, Dop, the point of your posting was that all whites who have commented in this thread, are already assuming that he's guilty. Pagan (who also is white) said that he thinks it absurd that anyone make that assumption beforehand. Which, quite obviously to me, indicates that he does NOT think MJ is guilty prior to trial. Because his post clearly thrusts a broomstick thru your tire spokes, you simply reply "You're not on the jury". WTF? I'm not following what your POINT is anymore.

Cricket ... here's a test

Every white person on the forum that thinks MJ is not guilty raise their hand. Thought so.

The thread topic is whether MJ can get a fair trail and it is my position that with a 75% white jury he will not get a fair trail as nearly all whites (I can't speak for the blacks) as proven here by the forum members, have pre-judged him as guilty.

Whether he is scum or a POS is not the issue ... can he get a fair trial?????

So how about you cricket? Could you sit on a jury with an open mind and forget all that FOX has pounded into your head? Would you recuse yourself if you thought (or knew) he is guilty or you have a burning hatred for all pedophiles or alleged pedophiles? Would you struggle with the temptation to prounce guilt as a message to all pedophiles or in some other way just want to do it for the children? That's not rhetorical.

Convince me he can get a fair trial regardless of racial makeup and then tell me where these jurors have been living for the past year that they haven't been influenced by the media ... mars?

Dop

Dop, I have no idea whether he is guilty or not. And personally I could give a damn. He is of no consequence in my life.

I am not a racial bigot. My second husband was black and we were together for over 22 years. I raised his daughter who was also lack.

As a parent, who's job it is to protect my children, I can honestly say that I would not allow my children to spend the night un-chaperoned with any man who has previously been acused of child molestation, weather found innocent or not. My first duty is to my children, not to him. This is not prejudice against child molesters or acused child molesters, it is common sense when ones responsibility is to keep their children safe.

I believe I could sit on the jury with an open mind and I am arnery enough to stick to my guns if I was the only holdout.

Your theory assumes that all white people are incapable of thinking for themselves. That may be true of some of the population but definately not all.

I would say that you are bigoted against white people. You do not belief that they can think for themselfs and come to an open mined and well thought out decision because MJ is black and eccentric. Shame on you!

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Every white person on the forum that thinks MJ is not guilty raise their hand.
::raises hand::

As of right now, Jackson is innocent. Innocent until proven guilty. Even though I'm not a big fan of Jackson, and in fact I find him rather creepy, he still deserves the same fair trial anyone else would get.

Echo

I didn't mean to imply that you or anyone is a racist bigot and if I did -- I sincerely apologize.

I did say that every white male that I have met (here and other places) hates MJ and somehow everyone took that to mean they hate him because he's black and that may be part of it but mostly they hate him because he's an accused pedophile and creepy as already mentioned.

You know and I know that he is already pronounced guilty by the media and the trial will be no more than entertainment and a huge waste of time and tax payer's money. Now throw in the white jury and it's a lock.

I don't think that's too hard to understand.

Borg -- good for you but like we already talked about -- you're not on the jury.

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Now throw in the white jury and it's a lock.
Oh yeah, well being that your prediction regarding our presidential election met with the subtlety and success of a train wreck - I'm putting my money on Jackson walking considering the legal circumstances. Just you watch...

He will walk beause he is rich and black.

He will walk beause he is rich and black. He is being tried in California where far leftists abound. Californians for the most part worship celebrates and stand up for minorities.

Dop,
My guess is that you will never accept any conviction for anything MJ has done because you have already determined that he will not get a fair trial. Are you convinced he is innocent?

I haven't judged MJ yet one way or another and I refuse to go by anything FOX/CNN/MSNBC tells me ... I still remember them guaranteeing there were WMD's in Iraq, that saddam could strike us with wmd's in 45 minutes, there was yellowcake from Niger blah blah blah... they have no credibility left and certainly not worth listening to in such an important case as this one.

But I do know he won't get a fair trail.

Dop