I think that the song and phrase "God Bless America" should no longer be recited, sung or displayed in public schools, government buildings and institutions, or written on official federal and state government documents and letterheads. "God Bless America" is recognition of the Christian deity "God" as well as instigating prayer in the line "As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer" and is therefore a violation of the separation of church & state as defined by the United States Constitution. It is a hurtful, divisive message to the Buddhist, Islamic, Hindu, Indigenous, Pagan, Agnostic, Atheist & other religious and secular Americans and is not what America and Democracy is about. We must not allow the Christian fundamentalist minority to exploit the September 11 attacks to push their religious Dogma to the public and turn the war on terrorism into a "Holy War". And also In god we trust should no longer be printed on money because america is a melting pot and kill continue to be one and with that we will see many diffrent belifes brought into are country I for one think this is hurtful to other religons I hope to see your thoughts on this.

First off welcome to the forums....

Now here is my opinion on this:

The first admendment clearly states freedom of religion, not freedom from religion....in other words you will be forced to hear some type of a religion whether it be Christianity or VooDooism....alright, as long as the goverment does not force you to go that way, its constutional....

This country was based on the Jadeo Christianity beliefs...it was clearly stated not only in the Decalration of Independece but also in the Constitution that the founders believed in God. Now does this mean that we should all be Christian why no it does not. But to change what this country was founded on is to change the very things that make this country great!

Now you say don't make this a "holy war" but Bin Laden said himself, I parphrase here, "anyone that is not for Islamic, deserves to die."

Now he is not only attacking religion and our country but the entire world. If you ever read the Koran, the Islam Bible, it clearly states that to take a sword to those of the Christian belief, I will try to locate that vers, for ya...

Just my thought...hope it unconfuses you..

Chris

:hmmm:

I believe that "God bless America" does not just imply christianity. . It implies anyone who believes in god, a god, or gods.. Anyways what in the world does that have to do with the flag?! It seems to me a lot of islamic people don't like the US flag; if you don't like the our flag then move! You act like freedom of speach is such a big deal, which it is, and yet say that people shouldn't be able to have flags? Basically, if you like it it's freedom of speach, if you don't it's insultive? I don't like those things people put on their head and walk around with; but if thats what they want to do this is America.

[img:a745700ec5]http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/american-flag/images/photo-01.jpg[/img:a745700ec5]

what denomination are you ConfusedYouth, if you dont mind me asking..you dont have to answer if you dont want to

Obviously you really are confused. Since many Americans are Christian it would make since to sing God Bless America. Duh. All I have to say is, stuff your ears with toilet paper, maybe used toilet paper, and quitchurbichin.:redsmoker

Well I grow very sick, and so angry when people don't ask about our military. The were in Afghanistan and the women were force to wear a veil to cover their face, sit in the back seat. Now it is optional to for all of these things, but they are not allowed to have a known bible. If they are caught with that Bible it can cost them a court Marshall...

So that really makes me angry. These people put their lives on the line for these dang people yet they don't respect our ideas, or ways of life.

What about the thousands of people who died? I wonder if they had a choice of what song would they like to be remembered by what would it be? No better song than God Bless America...If you don't love America Leave....simple as that...

Jimmy I love your Flag.


God Bless America, and In God I Trust
Chris Dildy

From what was on the news they had military gear on telling the evil ones waht to do!:multipimp

Prior to the orders given by Washinton they were doing what I had said. The news has always put over emphasis on somethings..

Frist off it is okay to have flags. Anti-flag is nothing but simply a band infact my favoite band so I decided to put the picture there. Also if I don't like somthing I should move to another country you know how many times i've heard that i'm just simply saying that we are a melting pot more and more religons are being welcome into are nation. And to say we all believe in a god is not true we have people who don't believe in any upper power at all . and to answer your questions I my self am agnostic and I don't mind you asking so don't worry about it.

aslo im glad to be an addition to this board I hope to continue to like it....

INteresting place to put that pic!

For those who are not very familar with Agnosticism let me give a short defenition what it exactly is before you go jumping to a conclusion about my belifes. An agnostic does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether or not they exist. The term agnostic was fittingly coined by the 19th-century British scientist Thomas H. Huxley, who believed that only material phenomena were objects of exact knowledge. He made up the word from the prefix a-, meaning “without, not,” as in amoral, and the noun Gnostic. Gnostic is related to the Greek word gnsis, “knowledge,” which was used by early Christian writers to mean “higher, esoteric knowledge of spiritual things” hence, Gnostic referred to those with such knowledge. In coining the term agnostic, Huxley was considering as “Gnostics” a group of his fellow intellectuals“ists,” as he called themwho had eagerly embraced various doctrines or theories that explained the world to their satisfaction. Because he was a “man without a rag of a label to cover himself with,” Huxley coined the term agnostic for himself, its first published use being in 1870.

I hope this might help you understand Agnosticism alittle bit more you where clueless on what it exactly ment.

ok, i think these are some of the same points that other ppl, but kinda paraphrased and at the same time elaborated.
in the bill of rights, in the first amendment, there is an establishment clause. that is guaranteeing that there will be no "State Religion". in other words, the founding fathers were tryin to ensure that, unlike England, citizens would not persecuted by the country and forbidden to worship (or not) as they please. the separation of church and state was born in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association. he said, and i quote, "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature would 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free excercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State." the common understanding of the separation of church and state is that it means the church cannot be involved in any government. however, Jefferson, was only saying that the establishment clause was a good idea. that the government cannot make a law concerning any religion. so please, don't say that the separation of church and state is guaranteed by the constitution, its not.
thanx guys

no michal....thank [i:47c5a595de]YOU[/i:47c5a595de] for clearing that up for us :cheer:

First off...

Welcome to the forums Michal...please come back.

Confused Youth. I welcome you to the board, and this forum particularly is a very opinonated forum....but does not mean a whole lot. WolfPac and I totally disagree on almost everything, yet everyday we eat lunch together, and have civil conversations.
So don't take posts in this forum as face value, this is a place where the people put their opinions and not reall placed anywhere else as far as politics goes. So check out some of the other forums...you will see this...

Your posting of the of the Anti-Flag was a bit off the way, that made me at least, think that you were talking a bit un-american.

But the Melting Pot I agree....too many times it has been said. But we are not a melting pot. Everyone has their own beliefs. Andsome peole will never let others have beliefs without saying something, This I know to be true.

I wanna know if any of you people are against Muslims, Jews, or any other religions! I wanna know if your pro-life or pro-choice.:hmmm:

The people of Islam believe in the Same God we do! They also believe in Jesus Christ.

I belive in Pro-Choice,
let me explain

I believe you make the choice before you unzip your pants. Teenagers have no busiiness going around screwing. If you cant afford a baby, you have no business doing the same.

The bible is a great thing. If everyone followed it we would be a happy world. And no one would be injured, or diesease goes it would be dramatically down, STD's anyway.

And there would be no obesity in the world, I know, HeHe, I am trying to write that wrong, tho...

We do not believe in the same God, My God does not say its alriht to kill a non christian....

I don't have a problem with anyone of another religon. I only have a problem when people impose there religon on others thats why I brought up this topic in the first place but anyway I think people who discrimnate because of anothers culture, religon, race, sex and etc. are closed minded. And I'm also pro-life.

One more thing computerguy your thing about if we all followed the bible we would be better people I don't exactly agree with you on that I have friends who are athiest, agnostic etc. and have better morals then people who go to church and follow the christian faith.

Confused Youth,

I do not try to put my faith on anyone. The Bible, is followed by me...just because you go to church does not make you a good person, I do not go to church all the time, does that make me a sorta good person, according to my theory?

I am just saying obesity,STDS, pregnat Teens would be virtually gone if ppl followed it, but people are animals and some people who claim to be Christians are nothing but hipocrits...

<<<I do not try to put my faith on anyone. The Bible, is followed by me...>>>

That message was never directed to you I was just commenting on how I dislike it when people impose religon on others

<<<just because you go to church does not make you a good person, I do not go to church all the time, does that make me a sorta good person, according to my theory? >>>

In my opinion are society (note: NOT EVERYONE BUT ALOT OF PEOPLE) lives like this if your not a white stight christian then you are not a good person with no morals which is not true.

<<<I am just saying obesity,STDS, pregnat Teens would be virtually gone if ppl followed it>>>

First of all some people can't help obesity alot of the times it can be genetic but most often these days it is lack of exercise how is the bible going to get me off my ███ and get me to start running every morning? There are teens who interprate the bible and follow it MOST OF THE TIME but still have babies so to say the bible will rid of all these devistating things in not always true. I don't read the bibe and I have enough common sence and morals to relize that before I have sex to make sure my partner and I have both been checked for STDS and to ever think of having a baby at such a young and tender age like mine is absoutly out of the picture so to say that following the bible will make you a better person morally is not true.

Following the Bible will make you a better person. Just reading the Bible may not, but actually following it and obeying it.

I am not perfect, and some people say I act a bit smug sometimes. But I try to treat people with the same respect that they treat me. If you are a snob about money, then I say to hell with you. I can do something better than you, and you prolly can run faster than me. But to say things like you don't have God, your going to hell, is not my style.

I just say follow what you know to be true and you will be alright. Just don't run it down my throat...

I think one thing I get pushed down my throat is the slavery. My family had slaves, that were from Africa. They were treated better than most children, because they were worth money at that time. So they made sure the peple that worked for them were taken care of, make sense?

Well down in Wilson, NC there is a very large, promdomintly Black church, named "Dildy Christian Church" its been there for for over 100 years this April. Maybe someone will see the connection I do, maybe you won't.

what exactly do u mean by "against"? i don't agree w/other religions. my religion is Christianity and right now i'm in the baptist denomination. i believe there is only one way to heaven. that is to accept Jesus Christ into your heart as your Lord and Savior. I do not look down on people of other religions, but i feel compassionate for them bc i kno that when they die, they will be in eternal suffering.
i am definately pro-life. i believe that if u can't pinpoint the exact moment when life comes into a child, and that child becomes a living person, that (excuse the cliche) its better to be safe than sorry. for the supreme court to say that since we don't kno when the fetus becomes a person, then we should allow abortions, they are in fact deciding that the baby becomes a child at birth, simply by default.

I agree

<<<accept Jesus Christ into your heart as your Lord and Savior. I do not look down on people of other religions, but i feel compassionate for them bc i kno that when they die, they will be in eternal suffering.>>>

Have you ever looked at it like this maybe people from other religons feel compassionate for you because they think when you die that you will be in enternal suffering for believing in another god... and if this god is so forgiving want he except everyone into heaven because last time I heard that god loved everyone not a certain group just because they go a praise him every sunday morning....

oops, sorry guys, i got the lil email about someone posting a reply, and i responded before i realized that so much came after it.
just bc ppl go to church or say that they're a Christian, doesn't really make them a Christian. in my previous post, i told u how i define Christian. i also agree w/JWB about reading and obeying the Bible and the difference in the two. just bc i read the Bible or go to church does not mean i'll be any different from someone who does neither of those.
My God is a loving God, but he is also a jealous God. he shows everyone through their conscience and through creation that there is a God, and he gave us the Bible to help us find God. He has given each one a choice. if u choose not to follow Him, then u have chosen hell.
Ecclesiastes 3:11 "He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end."
Romans 1:18-20 "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who supress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature-- have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, SO THAT MEN ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE."

Well here is my final thoughts.

We all live, we all die, in between tiems we will make mistakes, and on your death bed, a lot of people change their mind.

Live it as you know it, just be aware, and try not to mae people mad, about their beliefs.

As far as Abortion goes. Michal said it better than I ever could :)

TheComputerGuy I respect the fact that you can befriend poeple of other ehtnic, religous, cultural diffrences that is really cool we need more people in this world like that because I've seen it become a huge problem in are world not only in are country but others one to many times people have been discrimnated because of those things I my self have been a victim that is really rad and also the fact you dont think someone will go to hell if they do not believe in your god because I my self have a problem with people who continue to impose religon on others your not one of them like me you voice your opinion you may or may not like it big deal you stick to your belifes no matter what others say or think. later

one more thing I look at it like this i get one life to live and i live it to its fullest I dont worry so much to what will happen to me after I die thats somthing for someone else to decide but I dont go around living my life how someone else wants be to I live it to how i think is best for me.

i live my life to the fullest as well, just bc i'm a Christian, and i obey the Bible, does not make me miss out on any great stuff in life. i have a peace in my life that cannot come from this earth. i apologize for the way i acted before. it was not my intention to be rude. i feel very strongly about my beliefs, and i often get relatively angry when ppl misunderstand me or say things that, very honestly, r simply incorrect.
what i don't understand is how some ppl "impose" on my beliefs bc my religion "imposes" on their's. ppl say that Christianity is wrong bc Christianity says other religions r wrong. do u see the fallacy in the thinking? the Bible very cleary states that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven. i believe in the inerrency (perfectness) of the Bible, and therefore i must believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven. u can't tell me that i'm wrong bc that would be "imposing" on my religion; right?
i wish u could hear the tone in my voice. i'm not upset, i'm simply stating how i feel. please don't become upset bc u feel like i'm being rude. that is not my intention at all.

All I was implying was how I dis-agree on how religon is being imposed on people today. and if I put you on the spot light making it look like you where the one imposing anything on me im sorry that was in no way directed to anyone on the board and if it came off like that again im sorry because you all have your belifes and I have mine and I don't take anything from you because that is your choice and I have made mine and you seem to be cool with what I think and I know im alright with what your belifes only time I will ahve a problem is when people believe it is okay to hurt others and none of you are doing that.

Well I have grown respect for you as well, you stick to your guns. And you bring valued points. I might not agree with them all, but you know your stuff.

i am commanded to tell others about my religion. Matthew 28:19 says "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." When i look around me at creation, it is impossible for me to believe that it all got there on its own, by chance. The intricacy of the human body or even of a potato for pete's sake, points to a designer. i simply cannot accept that this is all by chance. To think that the one who did create all this, came to earth, and died FOR ME blows me away. the creator of this universe, who has no sin became sin for me so that i, a lowly sinner, could be w/him in heaven. i have daily conversations w/the maker of the universe, how cool is that? and i'm not even a great person. i'm a sinner, a horrible person, and yet, before i was even conceived, He knew me through and through. before i could even come close to understanding what he did for me, he knew everything about me and had already died for me. even greater than the fact that he died for me is the fact that he rose again.
this is why he had to rise again: I Corinthians 15:21-22 "For since death came through a man, the resurrection from the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive." This is what sets Christianity apart from other religions. a perfect man, God in the flesh, came to earth, died, and rose again on his own.
i have an unnatural peace, joy, and hope for the future. God has changed me and is constantly working in my heart and my life, bringing me closer to him. i have peace bc i don't have to worry about tomorrow; i don't hafta be scared bc i kno that God is always with me. i have witnessed, firsthand the miracles of Christ and he is real to me and always will be.
i want others to have what i have. i wish that everyone could kno the peace i kno and that is y i share. i want u to know Christ and the power of his resurrection. thanx for ur attention

i kno my posts r really long, but whatever. i get what ur sayin confused youth, and that makes more sense. i can respect that. i understood u to say basically the whole toleration bit about we hafta accept everyone. sorry, my bad.

dude....michal, that was deep...and i agree with you 100% :dancer: ...:smirk:

I agree, she spoke words, that I dont think I could say