It is written that a being will come and claim to be the saviour. This being will do tricks and get thousands of followers. What if Christians have been chasing the wrong dream? Some say they would rather be Christian then take a chance in going to hell what if they've been worshipping the wrong being all along?

From what history tell us Jesus performed many tricks water to wine, a peace of bread to feed thousands, etc.... He also got thousand of people to follow him, could Christianity be bad for your eternal life?

Mad dog, If there is a Satan religion would be the best joke pulled on mankind.
Look at the mindset it creates. Total following of written words. Total acceptance without open mindedness. Wars, deaths, tortures are its history. Prejudice to the 10th power. Witch hunts, the deaths of innocent women. The condemnation of others not associated with a particular order, with eternal hell as the promised result to all that do not support its chosen dogma in most cases. Each claiming to be the one and only true religion.
Some even fooled men into worshiping living men like Budda and Jesus under the written promise that they were linked with God.
After all is Satan not supposed to be the great deceiver of an ignorant human. How better to deceive him than throw him off-track and offer him a card board cut-out of how to worship.

Could be that a true God would need no worship, no religions of men. Would accept man as he is, with his faults.
Maybe earth is a playground of learning experiences to be enjoyed and experienced.

The Bible tells us exactly who the deciever is. And he is the anti-christ. There are a number of prophecies that show us who the true Christ and lord of lords is.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
The Bible tells us exactly who the deciever is. And he is the anti-christ. There are a number of prophecies that show us who the true Christ and lord of lords is.
How do we know that the anti-Christ/Satan/Devil/whoever didn't write the Bible?

Originally posted by BorgHunter
How do we know that the anti-Christ/Satan/Devil/whoever didn't write the Bible?

I agree, o and Jere the answer is "you dont" and you never will.

This has always been one of my big problems with organized religion. Although they all pretend to have good basic values behind them, they are practiced in a way that EXCLUDES anyone unless they FULLY accept the doctrine. A doctrine that can ONLY be accepted with faith as there is no evidence to back it up.

This sounds like smoke and mirrors to me.

If there is a good entity, and that entity was all powerfull, it wouldn't NEED to be worshipped. However, if there was an evil entity that was powerfull, what a wonderfully evil trick it has pulled on mankind. It has not only gotten humans to worship it, it has gotten humans to kill, descriminate, start wars and torture in it's name. It has gotten humans to proseletize in it's name and devote their entire lifes to it.

A true loving god would not need to use smoke and mirrors. A true loving god would not NEED to be worshipped. A true loving god would not give humans a choice and then punish them for picking the wrong one.

The concept of god and satan are mankinds way of explaining good and evil and incorporating mans fear of death and an after life.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
How do we know that the anti-Christ/Satan/Devil/whoever didn't write the Bible?

Satan desires to destroy people not lift people up. The Word of God tells us to live righteously and live in truth, Satan is the father of all lies and there is no truth in him. The Word of God is there to show us how to live in rightoeusness before God and how to keep out of satan's snares. satan sure wouldn't expose his own works as the bible exposes who he is.

It is written that a being will come and claim to be the saviour.
Written where? In the Bible!!! Who said it? Jesus! How can you say that Jesus is a deceiver when He Himself said that the others will come to deceive?!?
Guys, I am very sad listening to you, not because you don't accept Christ (although this saddens me greatly), but because you can't use simple logic.
As J Man correctly pointed out, Satan wouldn't create a book against Himself. "A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand."
Dan Fussell:Could be that a true God would need no worship, no religions of men. Would accept man as he is, with his faults.
Maybe earth is a playground of learning experiences to be enjoyed and experienced.
Anything could be, but look at what is. You guys just want to create a world to fit you, you can't stop and look around and see that it CAN'T fit you, but you need to fit into it. You need to be humble before God, yes, God who created you and loved you from the beginning.
Echo2: f there is a good entity, and that entity was all powerfull, it wouldn't NEED to be worshipped.
That makes no sense! Where are you getting this from? What kind of logic led you to this conclusion?
The Bible does say that God doesn't need our worship, He is self-sufficient. All He wants is for us to love Him, because He is love and He is life, and if we don't accept and love Him, then we accept and love our death, which is what He will give us.
Echo2: However, if there was an evil entity that was powerfull, what a wonderfully evil trick it has pulled on mankind. It has not only gotten humans to worship it, it has gotten humans to kill, descriminate, start wars and torture in it's name. It has gotten humans to proseletize in it's name and devote their entire lifes to it.
You are right! Satan did pull a trick on mankind, twisting their minds into believing they were following Christ, when they were actually following Satan. There is a simple check against that: do your actions promote love (for neighbours and for God)? If not, then you are not doing the correct thing.
Echo2: The concept of god and satan are mankinds way of explaining good and evil and incorporating mans fear of death and an after life.
Only the weak in faith and spirit are afraid of death. I, for example, look with all my heart towards it, because when I will die, I will be raised up in Christ.

Originally posted by STOpandthink

That makes no sense! Where are you getting this from? What kind of logic led you to this conclusion?

You say this about Echo2's comment, as if the idea that God doesnt need our worship is absurd

Originally posted by STOpandthink
The Bible does say that God doesn't need our worship, He is self-sufficient.

and then you go and say this which is directly agreeing with him? Your a bag of contradictions, of holes, lies and deceit.

Originally posted by STOpandthink

Only the weak in faith and spirit are afraid of death. I, for example, look with all my heart towards it, because when I will die, I will be raised up in Christ.

Stopandthink your afraid of Life, your afraid to live for the now, you preach that you want to die so as to be with Christ and yet you say "I love my life and am in complete happiness" just to contradict that in the next post saying "If suicide wasnt evil, id die".

Your soo obsessed with Heaven, so lustful of its perfection, so greedy for all the happiness that you feel comes from it that it blinds you from the ever glaring truth.

Originally posted by the J Man
Satan desires to destroy people not lift people up. The Word of God tells us to live righteously and live in truth, Satan is the father of all lies and there is no truth in him. The Word of God is there to show us how to live in rightoeusness before God and how to keep out of satan's snares. satan sure wouldn't expose his own works as the bible exposes who he is.

Lets think about this for a moment J Man, Those who wrote the book were simply translating the words of God yes? So it would be heavily hatefilled and biased towards the Devil from the offset. God was pissed off because Adam & Eve chose Personal choice over GOD even with him being there.

Id like to see Satans version of events, and not some one sided book like the Bible.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
Mad dog, If there is a Satan religion would be the best joke pulled on mankind.
Look at the mindset it creates. Total following of written words. Total acceptance without open mindedness. Wars, deaths, tortures are its history. Prejudice to the 10th power. Witch hunts, the deaths of innocent women. The condemnation of others not associated with a particular order, with eternal hell as the promised result to all that do not support its chosen dogma in most cases. Each claiming to be the one and only true religion.
Some even fooled men into worshiping living men like Budda and Jesus under the written promise that they were linked with God.
After all is Satan not supposed to be the great deceiver of an ignorant human. How better to deceive him than throw him off-track and offer him a card board cut-out of how to worship.

This is my point would a loving God create such confussion as to make war between his creations. Maybe there is a hell{I don't believe in it} that hell is right here and now folks that live in fear of where they will end up. Maybe this satan guy had a plan it was to create a book that was falsely written. What a better way to create a living hell, tell someone that you are something that you aren't. Make thousands/millions fall for this joke and just sit back and watch. Why would a God need a book can It not find us through belief?

Could be that a true God would need no worship, no religions of men. Would accept man as he is, with his faults.
Maybe earth is a playground of learning experiences to be enjoyed and experienced.

I agree, if God is the allmighty force then what does It need in worshipping humans, this would only bring God down to our level.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
The Bible tells us exactly who the deciever is. And he is the anti-christ. There are a number of prophecies that show us who the true Christ and lord of lords is.

I don't think so it just says be carefull of a being calling itself the saviour. What is the true Christ lords real name, when was he born, where did he live, what age did he die, what did he look like, exactly?

Originally posted by Echo2
This has always been one of my big problems with organized religion. Although they all pretend to have good basic values behind them, they are practiced in a way that EXCLUDES anyone unless they FULLY accept the doctrine. A doctrine that can ONLY be accepted with faith as there is no evidence to back it up.

This is another good point why would God create power struggling groups between his creations?

If there is a good entity, and that entity was all powerfull, it wouldn't NEED to be worshipped. However, if there was an evil entity that was powerfull, what a wonderfully evil trick it has pulled on mankind. It has not only gotten humans to worship it, it has gotten humans to kill, descriminate, start wars and torture in it's name. It has gotten humans to proseletize in it's name and devote their entire lifes to it.

This would be Kind of like good parents they love their kids no matter what, the children may piss mom and pop off, but the love never dies.

A true loving god would not need to use smoke and mirrors. A true loving god would not NEED to be worshipped. A true loving god would not give humans a choice and then punish them for picking the wrong one.

I doubt it would go around making threats either, " I will show you no proof of my existance, but if you don't worship me I will send you to eternal pain and suffering."

J Man, you may be coorect but I would just like to show another opinion, possibility

Originally posted by the J Man
Satan desires to destroy people not lift people up.

I disagree with this satan needs people this is where he would get his power. Satan can not live without someone around to believe in him. God will be there no matter what people think.

The Word of God tells us to live righteously and live in truth, Satan is the father of all lies and there is no truth in him. The Word of God is there to show us how to live in rightoeusness before God and how to keep out of satan's snares. satan sure wouldn't expose his own works as the bible exposes who he is.

The last part is where I disagree, think about it, what a better way to get people to believe you exist. Lets not forget we would be talking about the biggest liar ever. God would not need a book, people allready believed in God before books were written. This mischievious being would need the book more then God ever would. God would understand a difference of opinion he would not be jealous, unforgiving, threatening etc... it would make no sence.

Originally posted by mad dog

I disagree with this satan needs people this is where he would get his power. Satan can not live without someone around to believe in him. God will be there no matter what people think.


Satan is suddenly like The Carebears? If you stop believeing in them then he'll dissapear. Can you point me to where the bible says that please. Quote the passage etc.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
Written where? In the Bible!!! Who said it? Jesus! How can you say that Jesus is a deceiver when He Himself said that the others will come to deceive?!?

Why do we not know the real name of Jesus why do we not know anything about this man? If he did exist then why is there so many unanswered questions? If he truely was God/son of then why leave so much confussion?


Guys, I am very sad listening to you, not because you don't accept Christ (although this saddens me greatly), but because you can't use simple logic.

I believe this is what we are using, God gave the power to question but according to some we should not, what would be the reason behind this?


As J Man correctly pointed out, Satan wouldn't create a book against Himself. "A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand."

Listen to what you just wrote, satan would not want confusion war etc... {if he is real}Of course he would like I said in another post satan needs to make others aware of his existence God does not. What a better way to do this actually quite smart don't you think.



You guys just want to create a world to fit you, you can't stop and look around and see that it CAN'T fit you, but you need to fit into it. [quote]

There are those that can fit in just fine without trying to find some sort of gold at the end of the rainbow{death}. I some times wonder who is creating what, mans religion needs followers to create a group of like minds. Some people need to believe in an all loving baby sitter because they are afraid of what comes after death.



[quote]The Bible does say that God doesn't need our worship, He is self-sufficient. All He wants is for us to love Him, because He is love and He is life, and if we don't accept and love Him, then we accept and love our death, which is what He will give us.

this is very confussing he doesn't need us but yet he needs our love? He loves us and knows our fault but he will send us to an eternatiy of pain?



Only the weak in faith and spirit are afraid of death. I, for example, look with all my heart towards it, because when I will die, I will be raised up in Christ.

Lets be real no one wants to die and they do fear it{unless they are messed up in the head}. If people{majority} are so happy about dying then they would just do it.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Satan is suddenly like The Carebears? If you stop believeing in them then he'll dissapear. Can you point me to where the bible says that please. Quote the passage etc.

I didn't say he would disapear I said he would lose power without humans to keep him going. I am not exactly sure where it is written. I was rasied catholic had to go to sunday school and spend many sunday mornings in church, this is/was taught. Infact I even happened to stubble accross a show{religious} not to long ago and the preacher was doing a bit on this.

As I have said I do not believe in the devil BS, but if I were to believe who would satan get the power from? God would be all creation including the devil, the devil would be nothing without the human to keep him going. Simply put God does not need humans to survive, or be powerfull, the devil can't have power without humans.

Originally posted by mad dog
the devil can't have power without humans. Where are you getting this from? I could understand, The Devil wouldnt have anything to do without humans, or The devil wouldnt have a purpose without humans, but power? Are we some energy source for him? We are lead to believe that God is all loving and that he has ultimate power, he could get rid of the devil at any moment but chooses not to.

This quite simply shows that there is in fact no devil and that the bad side, the evil, is simply God too. So in that sense you are rigth Maddog, a hateful human populace will fuel the anger of God and thus his bad side or (satan), however a loving, giving populace will find God's good side and so we have what is currently potrayed as God.

mad dog:Why do we not know the real name of Jesus why do we not know anything about this man? If he did exist then why is there so many unanswered questions? If he truely was God/son of then why leave so much confussion?

His name is Jesus. What do you mean we don't know His name???
Why some many questions? Why not? Did you expect to find every single detail about His life? Why? I think the Bible gets the point across just fine without too many extra details. (If somebody wrote a book about you, wouldn't they miss a lot of things too?)
mad dog: I believe this is what we are using, God gave the power to question but according to some we should not, what would be the reason behind this?
You don't see, do you? I wasn't refering to your questioning, but the way you do it. Your arguments lack logic and this is because you are apparently lacking good education. You, and many others, make arguments that make no sense whatsoever, and there are no reasons for them, but your head just makes them up and you type them without thinking.
mad dog:Listen to what you just wrote, satan would not want confusion war etc... {if he is real}Of course he would like I said in another post satan needs to make others aware of his existence God does not. What a better way to do this actually quite smart don't you think.
That's not what I said. If Satan created the Bible, he would make us worship him. He would do even more so the world would be covered in wars and wickedness. I don't get what you are saying (again, because you are not using logic. You are not even attempting to try and understand what I am telling you)
this is very confussing he doesn't need us but yet he needs our love? He loves us and knows our fault but he will send us to an eternatiy of pain?
He doesn't need our love. He doesn't need anything. As I said, He is self-sufficient. He just loves us and wants us to love Him. And if we don't love Life, then the only deserving thing for us is death.
Simply put God does not need humans to survive, or be powerfull, the devil can't have power without humans.
Now you are getting it. Also, Satan needs permission from God to do anything.
Lokideviluk:Where are you getting this from? I could understand, The Devil wouldnt have anything to do without humans, or The devil wouldnt have a purpose without humans, but power? Are we some energy source for him? We are lead to believe that God is all loving and that he has ultimate power, he could get rid of the devil at any moment but chooses not to.

This quite simply shows that there is in fact no devil and that the bad side, the evil, is simply God too. So in that sense you are rigth Maddog, a hateful human populace will fuel the anger of God and thus his bad side or (satan), however a loving, giving populace will find God's good side and so we have what is currently potrayed as God
Ah...Devil want's to be worshiped, he wants power, authority, people to love him. The only way for him to get that is through deceit and trickery. He needs somebody to rule over, somebody to use his power on. Also, he knows that God is more powerful thatn him, yet he is so selfish and wicked, he simply despises God with all his heart and doesn't want to submit himself, but wages war.
Ceirtainly, God could destroy devil at any second, but He uses him to do good, believe it or not. Look at Job. Satan did all those things to him, yet in the end Job became more righteous. Same is with us. It seems that God is "punishing" us, but in the end, which we can't see, it will all be for the best.
Satan is only a fallen angel. Nothing more. He is not God, nor God is him. They are different and separate. Holy has no place with the unholy.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
mad dog:
His name is Jesus.

are you sure about that, maybe you better go ask a few preachers what they think, I have been told his real name started with a Y{can't remember the rest, something like, Yayha???}

What do you mean we don't know His name???

we don't know his real name


Why some many questions? Why not? Did you expect to find every single detail about His life? Why? I think the Bible gets the point across just fine without too many extra details. (If somebody wrote a book about you, wouldn't they miss a lot of things too?)

Are you for real? If someone is writting a book about me then of course I would expect info about me. Where I was born, when I was born, what I looked like etc.... How can a book be written about a person and nothing be told about the person? We know what Jesus might have done but we no nothing about him.


You don't see, do you? I wasn't refering to your questioning, but the way you do it. Your arguments lack logic and this is because you are apparently lacking good education.

I don't claim to be the best in writting, but so far you have understood what I was asking I see no reason to make personal attacks. If I did not ask a question to where you can understand it then just ask me to redo. My logic and your logic may be different but tell me how you used logic to have faith in something that you have never seen?

You, and many others, make arguments that make no sense whatsoever, and there are no reasons for them, but your head just makes them up and you type them without thinking.

Clearly the problem is not in logic etc... but in the fact that we may not believe like you. If we disagree with what you believe then we must be stupid and never use logic? Why can't we have a difference of opinion for all you no maybe none of us are right?



That's not what I said. If Satan created the Bible, he would make us worship him.

Look at it this way Satan likes confussion, he also needs folks to know he is there. This would be a great way to hide but still get the message out that he exist. Can you agree that satan would be decieving?

He would do even more so the world would be covered in wars and wickedness.

well lets see when has the world been totally free from war hmmmmmmmm never.

I don't get what you are saying (again, because you are not using logic. You are not even attempting to try and understand what I am telling you)

there you go again with the logic thing. You want me to believe in what you say because you said it I want the proof. I do read what you write and you seem to believe in your faith{thats great :) } You want me to believe but show me no proof. I threw this thread out there just to show another possibility, it is just food for thought.


He doesn't need our love. He doesn't need anything. As I said, He is self-sufficient. He just loves us and wants us to love Him. And if we don't love Life, then the only deserving thing for us is death.

This may be true or it may not be, love is a human emotion maybe God doesn't give a poop? Maybe we are just here because?



Now you are getting it. Also, Satan needs permission from God to do anything.

Interesting, so God would give satan the power to cause suffering, and this same God is loving.... how?


Ah...Devil want's to be worshiped, he wants power, authority, people to love him. The only way for him to get that is through deceit and trickery.

this is exactly why I started the thread. Deceit and trickery why not write a book that does this? People allready believed in a higher power why through even more confussion in?

He needs somebody to rule over, somebody to use his power on. Also, he knows that God is more powerful thatn him, yet he is so selfish and wicked, he simply despises God with all his heart and doesn't want to submit himself, but wages war.

wouldn't God be just as quilty of waging war without showing his creation the one true religion?


Satan is only a fallen angel. Nothing more. He is not God, nor God is him. They are different and separate. Holy has no place with the unholy.

So could satan be like a God? if he is seperate from god then this would mean he is another force with power. Maybe he would not have the strength of God but as you have pointed out he would have power and he is seperate.

I have been told his real name started with a Y{can't remember the rest, something like, Yayha???}
You are referring to YHWH Tsidkenu? That means: "The Lord Our Righteousness." Christ is our Righteousness.
we don't know his real name
What do you mean we don't know His real name???
Are you for real? If someone is writting a book about me then of course I would expect info about me. Where I was born, when I was born, what I looked like etc.... How can a book be written about a person and nothing be told about the person? We know what Jesus might have done but we no nothing about him.
Honestly, who cares in what city Jesus was born? We know where He preached and that's good enough, but even more, we know WHAT He preached, and that's what matters. He died for our sins, that's what important. You are placing a huge emphasis on little details.
My logic and your logic may be different but tell me how you used logic to have faith in something that you have never seen?
Sorry if I have been harsh. I am just astonished at some conclusions people draw on this site. Also, when I talk about faith, I do not even try to make it seem logical. It is not. It is logical only once you accept it and look from "the other side." Then you see that it is obvious, but from the other side, it's not so.
If we disagree with what you believe then we must be stupid and never use logic? Why can't we have a difference of opinion for all you no maybe none of us are right?
No, no. By all means DO use logic, but only make sure it's logical. Disagree, express your opinions, whatever, as long as you can back it up. If you are trying to use logic, then make sure it's sound.
And for all I know, I am right.
Look at it this way Satan likes confussion, he also needs folks to know he is there. This would be a great way to hide but still get the message out that he exist. Can you agree that satan would be decieving?
Sure he is deceiving, no doubt about it. I am just saying that he would not portrait Jesus as our Saviour (and man other things) if he wrote or inspired the Bible.
well lets see when has the world been totally free from war hmmmmmmmm never.
I suppose you are right. The world is evil, the Bible puts it this way, so if we look on the global scale--it's all a wicked mess. Only when we get to individual level, that we see some real goodness and faith.
This may be true or it may not be, love is a human emotion maybe God doesn't give a poop? Maybe we are just here because?
God does care. He loves us and wants us to love Him, the Bible makes it clear.
Interesting, so God would give satan the power to cause suffering, and this same God is loving.... how?
From suffering many good things can come. Again, look at the story of Job. He suffered, but in the end he became more rich (in all aspects) than he was before. God loves us, but it doesn't mean He won't discipline us. Like a father might discipline his child, so does God disciplines us.
Deceit and trickery why not write a book that does this? People allready believed in a higher power why through even more confussion in?
I am just saying that satan could have done a much better job than that.
wouldn't God be just as quilty of waging war without showing his creation the one true religion?
Are you saying that satan doesn't know that the only true religion is through our God? Satan knows that perfectly. He was one of the angels, but he made a choice in the wrong direction, and therefore fell from heaven. His pride is too strong for him to throw away.
So could satan be like a God?
No. God is the only Power and everything comes through Him. You have to realize that God is everywhere and everything is done ONLY because God OKays it. You blink, you do it because God said it's OK. A leaf falls, it falls because God said it's OK. Nothing happens without God. Satan has no power, but the power that God lets him have.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
You are referring to YHWH Tsidkenu? That means: "The Lord Our Righteousness." Christ is our Righteousness.

What do you mean we don't know His real name???

It doesn't really matter I quess when we say Christ we know who we are speaking about. I have just been around some folks{christians} that get real involved into what the real name was.

Honestly, who cares in what city Jesus was born? We know where He preached and that's good enough, but even more, we know WHAT He preached, and that's what matters. He died for our sins, that's what important. You are placing a huge emphasis on little details.

To me these are not little details, how can we prove that he lived if we know nothing about him. The message is important but to find out if it was truely done by Christ we need info of him, not stories of what he did. I could get a group of people to make up a story and tell it like it was about one being, this does not make it true? infact it would be very false no matter how good the message may be.

Sorry if I have been harsh. I am just astonished at some conclusions people draw on this site. Also, when I talk about faith, I do not even try to make it seem logical. It is not. It is logical only once you accept it and look from "the other side." Then you see that it is obvious, but from the other side, it's not so.

well I do believe in a higher power, what I don't believe in is the Bible. It leaves to many unanswered things and some of the stories are just plain to far out there. It makes man sound like he is the most important thing ever created which I find hard to believe. Take the earth and how long it has been here now take man and look at how long he has been here. If the Bible is Gods word then why did so much important stuff get left out. The Bible sounds more like a book written by people telling stories of what they knew at the time not of the history of life and soul.


No, no. By all means DO use logic, but only make sure it's logical. Disagree, express your opinions, whatever, as long as you can back it up. If you are trying to use logic, then make sure it's sound.
And for all I know, I am right.

You may be right but for all I know I may be right :) I have been trying to back up my opinion sorry if I have not done a good job. I also understand your point of view, like I said I was rasied catholic. I also learned that the church, preachers, mans religion does not have the answers. Faith has to come from within and I refuse to blindly follow another person just because that may be the norm. I do agree that preachers etc... have some good points but I also feel they like to control. They need followers otherwise they are out of work. What ever happened to the old way of learning about God, pitch a tent with others sit down sing, talk, read, discuss, etc.. The church and the power from formed religion is powerfull, and I believe that the real message gets lost for the purpose of gaining followers and even more power.

Sure he is deceiving, no doubt about it. I am just saying that he would not portrait Jesus as our Saviour (and man other things) if he wrote or inspired the Bible.

how decieving would it be if he were the Jesus that is mentioned??? Look at all the followers that believe in Jesus what a trick this would be. I'm not saying this is true I am just throwing an idea out there. Like I have said I don't believe in the whole satan line of BS. I started this thread because there are those that say us non-believers are going to hell because we don't follow the Bible Christ deal. So what if the real deal is those folks have been wrong all this time and in fact they are chasing the wrong God?

I suppose you are right. The world is evil,

I don't think so I just feel that mans religion and ignorance has started alot of sh** that did not need to happen. I see no problem with beliving in a higher power but I do see a problem with it's my way or no way.

God does care. He loves us and wants us to love Him, the Bible makes it clear.

you may be correct but you may also be living in a fairytail. This is your faith and for you I hope you don't get let down. If you don't mind me asking how did you get involved with your faith, parents, friends, because it's the norm, fear of hell etc....?

From suffering many good things can come.

from suffering many bad things can come also.

Again, look at the story of Job. He suffered, but in the end he became more rich (in all aspects) than he was before. God loves us, but it doesn't mean He won't discipline us. Like a father might discipline his child, so does God disciplines us.

I understand discpline but an eternal hell is alittle more then discipline. Once again I doubt that a loving father would throw his child into a burning pain pit for eternity

I am just saying that satan could have done a much better job than that.

Well look at it I would say it would have been a pretty darn good job of deceit, lying, etc...

Are you saying that satan doesn't know that the only true religion is through our God?

you had called him seperate from God so why would he bother with God in the 1st place?

No. God is the only Power and everything comes through Him.

So then satan has no power and he is not worth worrying about? then why mention him at all unless it is to get followers?

You have to realize that God is everywhere and everything is done ONLY because God OKays it.

I can live with that, this is why I think satan is a line of BS.

Nothing happens without God. Satan has no power, but the power that God lets him have.

Ok, but now we are back to square 1 why would a lovingcreater condemn his creations to eternal suffering? I know what you are going to say because some one did not choose to believe in Christ. I will answer with God is all knowing so he would have allready seen this comming. So if he did see this comming and is loving then he would straighten out the mess before it even happened.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
You have to realize that God is everywhere and everything is done ONLY because God OKays it.

So god Ok'd the serpent to tempt Eve to eat the apple, He Ok'd the serpent to be there in the first place and he OK'd the destruction that followed because of that.

By your words and your words only, GOD is one twisted motherfuc*er who deliberatly allowed Eve to screw things up just so he could punish her.

By your words Stop, think about that.

Loki:
So god Ok'd the serpent to tempt Eve to eat the apple, He Ok'd the serpent to be there in the first place and he OK'd the destruction that followed because of that.

By your words and your words only, GOD is one twisted motherfuc*er who deliberatly allowed Eve to screw things up just so he could punish her.

By your words Stop, think about that.
Yes. By my words, God allowed that. That and even more. He allowed that because He saw that much good will come: saints, Christians, and most importantly Christ. All of this goodness would not have existed otherwise. Sure we died because of one man's (woman's) fault, but we also live because of one Man's accomplishment. In the end, when I will be in heaven, I can say that it was all worth it. Can you?

mad dog:
To me these are not little details, how can we prove that he lived if we know nothing about him. The message is important but to find out if it was truely done by Christ we need info of him, not stories of what he did. I could get a group of people to make up a story and tell it like it was about one being, this does not make it true? infact it would be very false no matter how good the message may be.
The message is more important. If we accept the message--Christ is our Saviour, then we believe in Him and we trust Him. I do and for me it matters little where He was really born. I know that for nonbelievers it does. They need facts. I am sorry there are not a lot of them. If there were, then the act of faith wouldn't be so...great.
It leaves to many unanswered things and some of the stories are just plain to far out there.
What unanswered things? What things are far out there? Ask and I will answer to the best of my knowledge.
It makes man sound like he is the most important thing ever created which I find hard to believe. Take the earth and how long it has been here now take man and look at how long he has been here. If the Bible is Gods word then why did so much important stuff get left out. The Bible sounds more like a book written by people telling stories of what they knew at the time not of the history of life and soul.
What is there besides humans? Look around the universe, what is there but us, really? What important stuff got left out? You have the Genesis, it tells about the creation of the world? What else? The Bible is a book written by humans about what they knew at the time. Do I really think the prophets fully understood what they were prophesying? Probably not. They did what they had to do, they wrote filled with the Holy Spirit, but they were people and their knowledge was limited. They were like we are. History of life and soul? Explain.
You may be right but for all I know I may be right I have been trying to back up my opinion sorry if I have not done a good job. I also understand your point of view, like I said I was rasied catholic. I also learned that the church, preachers, mans religion does not have the answers. Faith has to come from within and I refuse to blindly follow another person just because that may be the norm. I do agree that preachers etc... have some good points but I also feel they like to control. They need followers otherwise they are out of work. What ever happened to the old way of learning about God, pitch a tent with others sit down sing, talk, read, discuss, etc.. The church and the power from formed religion is powerfull, and I believe that the real message gets lost for the purpose of gaining followers and even more power.
You do the best you can and so do I. We are merely humans, as I said, with limited knowledge. I too was raised with faith, but soon I realized that it didn't make any sense. I left it and wondered off, becoming a buddhist. But I came back. Why? Because my eyes were opened, because God had mercy on me and led me back, and now I see that Christianity is the way to go, now it's apparent to me, but before it wasn't so.
You are right about the power hungry priests. Take Catholic church, it a ladder of rising to power, it is horrible. You are not required to follow it or obey it, by any means don't. The Church is supposed to be the body of Chirst, but all too often I find that it is corrupted. Like Christ said: "Do what they say, buy don't do what they do." (Not an exact quote)
how decieving would it be if he were the Jesus that is mentioned???
Why would he heal? Why would he die for us? He did so many good things, it's impossible for him to be satan.
So what if the real deal is those folks have been wrong all this time and in fact they are chasing the wrong God?
What if...what if...I don't know. I just believe that it is not so. I suppose one can say "anything is possible," but I find some things harder to find probable than others.
If you don't mind me asking how did you get involved with your faith, parents, friends, because it's the norm, fear of hell etc....?
Heh, I guess I already kind of answered that question, though I had not idea you will ask it. Here is some more:
I was raised up a Christian.
One summer I realized my religion made no sense to me, so I left it.
Slowly I became a buddhist, influence my Montalk and the Matrix. (silly isn't it?)
My friend and me talked over the phone (I was planning to go to India) and somehow she broke be down. It wasn't anything that she said, it was like...magic.
I became Christian again. (that was almost exactly one year ago)
you had called him seperate from God so why would he bother with God in the 1st place?
Nobody is entirely separate of God. If you are then you don't exist. What I meant to say is: is satan God? No. Am I God? No. Therefore we are separated, but I draw my life and my existance from God, and so does everything else.
So then satan has no power and he is not worth worrying about? then why mention him at all unless it is to get followers?
Satan does have power (the one given to him by God) God gave all of us some power, although right now He could make it as nothing. He chooses not to, because that would violate our free will in a major way.
Ok, but now we are back to square 1 why would a lovingcreater condemn his creations to eternal suffering?
I sense weakness in my argument. All I can say for now is--God's ways are mysterious to us. I know this will not satisfy you, so I will get back to you not that one.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
mad dog:

The message is more important. If we accept the message--Christ is our Saviour, then we believe in Him and we trust Him. I do and for me it matters little where He was really born. I know that for nonbelievers it does. They need facts. I am sorry there are not a lot of them. If there were, then the act of faith wouldn't be so...great.

If we could prove who Jesus{god/son of} was I would think the message would be greater and faith would be stronger. Unless of course Jesus was just proven to be another man with an idea. So I would think this should be just {if not more} as important to Christians. You are the ones praying to a being that you have no proof of ever existing. Kind of like buying an island that you have never seen and isn't on any maps.


What unanswered things? What things are far out there? Ask and I will answer to the best of my knowledge.

These things are being asked in other threads, there are lots.

What is there besides humans? Look around the universe, what is there but us, really?

Well on my last trip to far out space...... If we can believe in a God then we should believe in other life, the stars do seem endless. Also there is lots of life right here on earth that seems at peace.

What important stuff got left out?

Most important would be the proof that the Bible is true.

You have the Genesis, it tells about the creation of the world? What else?

It doesn't tell jack, it is written so well that it looks as though it had answers. Where are the dino's, how did humans come about, etc...

life and soul? Explain.

As we have asked in other threads where is the proof of how we came to be and where is the proof of where we end up.

Why would he heal? Why would he die for us? He did so many good things, it's impossible for him to be satan.

he would heal, etc... so that he could get followers {deciet}. As far as the dying thing goes this is funny{odd}. he did not die he knew exactly where he was going if it was Christ then he knew he was going to heaven. If it where satan then this was just a trick to get followers.

What if...what if...I don't know. I just believe that it is not so. I suppose one can say "anything is possible," but I find some things harder to find probable than others.

fair enough, like I said I don't buy into the satan bull.

If we could prove who Jesus{god/son of} was I would think the message would be greater and faith would be stronger.
I dissagree. If there was hard scientific proof everywhere that God exists, then the very concept of faith would not exist. Faith is believing something that you cannot necessarily prove, something from the heart. When I say that I believe that 2+2=4, that's not faith, that's truth.

Well on my last trip to far out space...... If we can believe in a God then we should believe in other life, the stars do seem endless. Also there is lots of life right here on earth that seems at peace.
Stars are like cars or plants. Inanimate. They are all pretty much the same. And there is an end to them. Also what makes you think that believing in God requires us to believe in other life?

Most important would be the proof that the Bible is true.

As I said before, then there wouldn't be faith. I think the Bible is has enough facts, it's just some people are not willing to accept them. I don't blame them.
It doesn't tell jack, it is written so well that it looks as though it had answers. Where are the dino's, how did humans come about, etc..
If the Bible covered everything, it wouldn't be that widespead and famous. Nobody wants to read a 100000+ page book just especially if they are not even sure it's true. Dinos died. God created humans. The death of dinos isn't there, but the creation of man is very well described.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
I dissagree. If there was hard scientific proof everywhere that God exists, then the very concept of faith would not exist. Faith is believing something that you cannot necessarily prove, something from the heart. When I say that I believe that 2+2=4, that's not faith, that's truth.

So it is better to have faith then have a fact? one faith + another faith= war, fact + fact = peace. Everyones different faiths have caused nothing but confussion and war, wouldn't it be better to have 100% fact? Of course it would, this does not mean we have lost free will etc... it would only prove that a certain type of faith is absolute. Why would someone as yourself say you use logic but then would rather except faith over fact, sounds illogical?

Wouldn't it be nice if we could prove who the real Jesus was/is, unless of course a person fears the true answer?

My first post.

Just browsing the web and came across this thread. I am an atheist, but I'm willing to listen to all sides of the argument. A question for STOpandthink.

Why do you think plants are inanimate? They live, they react to stimuli, they reproduce, they grow, they die. All the hallmarks of an animate organism.

Originally posted by STOpandthink

Guys, I am very sad listening to you, not because you don't accept Christ , but because you can't use simple logic.


If everyone were logical, there would be no religious belief.

_______________________________

"The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance.....logic can be happily tossed out the window." --------Stephen King

ok i have some stuff to say.
one of the things that i wanted to point out was that God and Jesus Christ are 2 different people. you guys are talking as if they are one and the same. they werent.
God's name is Jehova...but that is a translated name. it does start with a y (i think) but if you listen to that name its does sound like Jehova.
i believe that everything happens for a reason. BUT it can be changed. god gave us the freedom of choice. he has a plan for us, but that plan isnt set in stone.
i think that the notion about satan creating the bible is somewhat retarded. as some people have said before, satan would have had us worshipping him. and doing everything for him, and i even sat here and thought out what if that were true, but everything that i came up with led me back to no. there is no way.
i also believe that not everything is in the bible that should have been there. when it was first written it was the correct thing. god chose the people that he knew would write it all down without questioning anything. but it has been translated many times over the years. so the people that have translated it could have left MANY things out thinking that they werent the best thing for the world.

Originally posted by Rhojura
i think that the notion about satan creating the bible is somewhat retarded. as some people have said before, satan would have had us worshipping him. and doing everything for him, and i even sat here and thought out what if that were true, but everything that i came up with led me back to no. there is no way.
I believe that the notion that an omnipotent being living in the sky either created the Bible or told men on Earth what to write in it is somewhat retarded...

see? thats why im happy we have free speech. you can say things like that.

Originally posted by Rhojura
see? thats why im happy we have free speech. you can say things like that.
I too am happy for freedom of speech...but that's a tad offtopic...

ok yea it was....oh well.
do you believe in ghost? do you believe that miracles can happen?? if you do then how do you explain that. it isnt some that happens by accident. well not to me anyway. i feel something had to of made it happen. and anyway christianity is all i know. i wish that i could see this through your eyes so that i could know but i dont.

Originally posted by Rhojura
do you believe in ghost? do you believe that miracles can happen??
No and no. Any phenomenon is scientifically explicable, with proper experimentation and observation, of course.

if you felt a hand on your sholder and heard something being said in your ear, what would you do?? would you go see if the wind were able to do that?? if you SEE something walk in front of you that you know isnt really there what would you do then?? i have seen that. i do believe.

Originally posted by Rhojura
if you felt a hand on your sholder and heard something being said in your ear, what would you do?? would you go see if the wind were able to do that?? if you SEE something walk in front of you that you know isnt really there what would you do then?? i have seen that. i do believe.
I would check myself into a mental hospital, reduce my stress level, stop drinking/smoking pot/tripping on acid/doing some other drug, or tell my friend to stop playing with the holographic projector again.

well im not here to tell you what you should do/believe. im just stateing that thats how i feel.

Originally posted by Rhojura
if you felt a hand on your sholder and heard something being said in your ear, what would you do?? would you go see if the wind were able to do that?? if you SEE something walk in front of you that you know isnt really there what would you do then?? i have seen that. i do believe.

Interesting. Rhojura, would you mind recounting this experience? Giving as much detail as you feel you can disclose in an open forum..

Do you believe in black cats being bad luck and genies in bottles to?

Interesting. Rhojura, would you mind recounting this experience? Giving as much detail as you feel you can disclose in an open forum..

ok i will.
about 4 years ago me and some friends went to the auditorium of my high school. it was built over a cemetary. well we went to see if the rumors were true about it being haunted. well we all saw something except for one girl cause she didnt think that it was true. how can you explain us all seeing something at the same time. inside the building. there was no one in there. there were no lights on. it was like at 9 pm.

Do you believe in black cats being bad luck and genies in bottles to?

no, i dont believe in those. those are made up superstitions.

Originally posted by Rhojura
[B]ok i will.
about 4 years ago me and some friends went to the auditorium of my high school. it was built over a cemetary. well we went to see if the rumors were true about it being haunted. well we all saw something except for one girl cause she didnt think that it was true. how can you explain us all seeing something at the same time. inside the building. there was no one in there. there were no lights on. it was like at 9 pm.

The interesting point is the girl who didn't see anything. The case for a genuinely supernatural event would have been stronger if the sceptic had also reported seeing 'something'. The area of group/mass hallucination is not one I know much about. I'd love to know what others with more knowledge in this area think.

But I'm willing to bet that a biochemical/bioelectrical/ mechanism will be found - just as in the case of the famous 'tunnel of light' experiences that are sometimes brought up by believers as proof of the existence of an afterlife.

no, i dont believe in those. those are made up superstitions.

Can you understand why some also consider Jesus/God to fall into this category?

The interesting point is the girl who didn't see anything. The case for a genuinely supernatural event would have been stronger if the sceptic had also reported seeing 'something'.

sorry i forgot one part. she didnt see anything and she didnt believe. when we started saying that we saw something she wanted to. but she couldnt. she yelled out "this is bullshit!!" and after that her whole body started going numb, starting with her legs then up through her arms and then the rest of her body. she said that it hurt, and she started crying. it was really odd.

Can you understand why some also consider Jesus/God to fall into this category?

yes i do understand why some people put them into the category. i never said that i didnt. some of you have pegged me to be close-minded. im not. so yea.

Originally posted by Rhojura
[B]sorry i forgot one part. she didnt see anything and she didnt believe. when we started saying that we saw something she wanted to. but she couldnt. she yelled out "this is bullshit!!" and after that her whole body started going numb, starting with her legs then up through her arms and then the rest of her body. she said that it hurt, and she started crying. it was really odd.

Roughly, how old were you all at this time?

Originally posted by Rhojura
ok i have some stuff to say.

isn't it nice that we have a forum like this to do just that :)


one of the things that i wanted to point out was that God and Jesus Christ are 2 different people. you guys are talking as if they are one and the same. they werent.

You may want to ask around about this, there are many that feel christ/God are one in the same.


God's name is Jehova...but that is a translated name. it does start with a y (i think) but if you listen to that name its does sound like Jehova.

did God tell you this or did you come up with this name from a human written book?


i think that the notion about satan creating the bible is somewhat retarded. as some people have said before, satan would have had us worshipping him. and doing everything for him

change Christ to satan quess who you'ld be worshipping. You may be correct but this is a "what if thread?"

and i even sat here and thought out what if that were true, but everything that i came up with led me back to no. there is no way.

you came back with the answer that you want to believe just like you want to believe in a God that is a baby sitter.


i also believe that not everything is in the bible that should have been there. when it was first written it was the correct thing. god chose the people that he knew would write it all down without questioning anything. but it has been translated many times over the years. so the people that have translated it could have left MANY things out thinking that they werent the best thing for the world.

This is interesting you say the Bible is probably not true many things left out and wrong translations, then you turn around and use it as a guide. Which parts are/would be true and who makes the choice?

Originally posted my mad dog
You may want to ask around about this, there are many that feel christ/God are one in the same.

yea but they are wrong. God is the father, and Jesus is the son. thats why there is the holy trinity. The father, the son, and the holy spirit.

did God tell you this or did you come up with this name from a human written book?

actually my friend told me. and whos to say that that isnt true??



change Christ to satan quess who you'ld be worshipping. You may be correct but this is a "what if thread?"

i know that this is a "what if thread" but I am throwing that aside.

you came back with the answer that you want to believe just like you want to believe in a God that is a baby sitter.

i never said that i wanted to believe. you are putting words in my mouth. i just took the time to see "what if" that were true, but the way it always ended to me was a no.

This is interesting you say the Bible is probably not true many things left out and wrong translations, then you turn around and use it as a guide. Which parts are/would be true and who makes the choice?

i do believe that a lot of it isnt in there. i never said that i use it as a guide. i am not as christian as i used to be, but i still do believe. my faith is with christianity. and we dont know whats true and what isnt. thats the desicion we have to make for ourselves


Originally posted by crossova
Roughly, how old were you all at this time?

umm....we were about....16?? i think yea it was my freshman year of highschool. but we arent the only people who have heard/seen things in there. a lot of the teachers have as well.

Originally posted by Rhojura
yea but they are wrong. God is the father, and Jesus is the son. thats why there is the holy trinity. The father, the son, and the holy spirit.

interesting, quess what they would say about you??? "your wrong"



actually my friend told me. and whos to say that that isnt true??

Like I said before give some hard proof, if your friend told you this then where is their proof? Are you one of these folks that will jump off a bridge if your friend tells you it's ok?



i never said that i wanted to believe. you are putting words in my mouth. i just took the time to see "what if" that were true, but the way it always ended to me was a no.

so then you are bellieving something based on a feeling, a feeling{faith} that has probably been planted in your mind? The answer would be neither yes or no but it could be a possibility. If you can believe in a man turning water to wine and walking on water why couldn't there be another way of looking at that man/story?



i do believe that a lot of it isnt in there. i never said that i use it as a guide. i am not as christian as i used to be, but i still do believe. my faith is with christianity.

so you are a Christian but you don't use the Bible? how does this work, kind of like being a school teacher that doesn't believe in books :)

and we dont know whats true and what isnt. thats the desicion we have to make for ourselves

This is why I started this thread, there is more then one way to look at things, so which one is true {with proof}?

Rhojura:
The father, the son, and the holy spirit.

And we(Christians) add to that: "One in essence and undivided." It's one God.

mad dog:This is why I started this thread, there is more then one way to look at things, so which one is true {with proof}
Nobody can prove anything. Well...I need to clarify that statement, but I think you know what I am saying.

And we(Christians) add to that: "One in essence and undivided." It's one God.
Catholics don't do that. I can say that with 100% certainty.

Well, Catholics are wrong. :)

Originally posted by STOpandthink
Well, Catholics are wrong. :)
Or maybe you're wrong. Or maybe you're both wrong. Or maybe you're both right. Or maybe you're all half-right...

Well, I know I am right.
But then again, they can say the same thing....and so can you. That is my point--nobody can really prove anything.

Its just that we have facts and you have faith and when balanced together and say some unbiased persons stepped in to weigh it up they would have to look at the fact that Atheists have produced all these facts, figures etc and you lot simply brought nothing except... faith.

Its just that we have facts and you have faith and when balanced together and say some unbiased persons stepped in to weigh it up they would have to look at the fact that Atheists have produced all these facts, figures etc and you lot simply brought nothing except... faith.

maybe its just that you are wanting to disprove it....well i dont think that will be happeneing. all you need is faith.

Which is the stronger argument here, Faith or Facts.

My (and everyone else who has contributed) facts are the rock against your Faiths scissors.

Faiths scissors? That's a weird way to put it.
Though I agree, evidence is harder than faith. But no evidence disproves the existence of God now, does it?

No one has ever seen, spoke to or converesed in any way to God outside of their mind, and since in their own minds people have spoken to Aliens, Elvis, Televisions thats a pretty faulty argument.

I could say theres a massive Panthra from thundercats in the sky who commands us all and used Thundercats to spread his message through coded sumblimal messages in the cartoon.

Moses talked to God when He was outside of his mind. So did Abraham, Isaac, and many other people. Even some of the apostles have seen God...well, His manifestation to be precise. Oh, and that brings be to the point--Christ is God, so there you go.

Well christ sinned, so then in that respect God sinned and so thus God is not perfect.

If you say Christ didnt sin, i will actually go and get you the quotes, but since you know they exist your only lying to yourself then, and if you have to lie to yourself to keep your faith is it really worth it.

I would like to see the quotes please. I have no idea what you are referring to. As far as I know, Christ never sinned.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
I would like to see the quotes please. I have no idea what you are referring to. As far as I know, Christ never sinned.

Hmm... STOp, have you ever considered that jesus never sinned because he didn't exist?

That is so illogical, I will pretend I didn't hear it.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
That is so illogical, I will pretend I didn't hear it.
Hey Spot, did you hear? Jesus may not have existed! It's unproven that he did, thus logical to assume he may not have!

Originally posted by STOpandthink
That is so illogical, I will pretend I didn't hear it.

Really STOp? Care to give us the NON-biblical evidence for his existence?

Even the NON-biblical evidence for the existence of Nazareth in the 1st century - the place he was supposed to have lived and preached would be helpful.

Hey Spot, did you hear? Jesus may not have existed! It's unproven that he did, thus logical to assume he may not have!

its also unproven that he didnt...

hmm...maybe this might help...if it doesnt then oh well. if you dont find what you are looking for then im sorry. ^.^

http://www.pathguy.com/jesus/

Originally posted by Rhojura
its also unproven that he didnt...


Given the two choices it's more reasonable to assume he didn't exist.

Stories about mythological creatures are plentiful throughout history. We have no proof that these creatures actually existed. We therefore rightfully conclude that they didn't exist. Why is it that people completely abandon their reasoning ability when it comes to the Christ myth?

Given the two choices it's more reasonable to assume he didn't exist.

Stories about mythological creatures are plentiful throughout history. We have no proof that these creatures actually existed. We therefore rightfully conclude that they didn't exist. Why is it that people completely abandon their reasoning ability when it comes to the Christ myth?

Why is it more resonable??
mythological creatures and jesus christ have nothing in common. it wasnt like jesus was this huge towering man. he was a regular man that would pray. that doesnt sound so mythological to me. sure he may have HELPED people get better, i dont think he made them better with touch. i think that he prayed and then when he put his hands on them the prayer helped them. that goes on a lot today too. we have Benny Hinn putting his hands on people and they are healed. but they were healed through the prayers and their faith. not through his touch.

Originally posted by Rhojura
but they were healed through the prayers and their faith. not through his touch. [/B] Just like the woman who had an issue of blood(found in Mark5:25-34). She felt that all she had to do was touch the hem of His garment and she would be healed(vs.28). In vs.34, Jesus says to her "Daughter, thy faith has made you whole." It was her faith that got her the healing she needed.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rhojura
[B]its also unproven that he didnt...

Ever heard of the concept of 'Burden of Proof?'

And any site that believes statements such as the one below is 'proof' isn't really worth bothering with.

"The Carpenter-King really existed. We know his name, and the names of his parents and four brothers, and that he had sisters"

And where did this 'proof' come from? The bible! Thats like using Harry Potter as 'proof' that dragons exist.

Originally posted by Rhojura
Why is it more resonable??

Because most people have learned not to accept something as true without some measure of corroboration. It keeps the con men somewhat honest.

mythological creatures and jesus christ have nothing in common.

My point is that people accept the stories written in the Bible as the truth, yet any other tale with fanciful elements would be rejected as pure fantasy.

it wasnt like jesus was this huge towering man. he was a regular man that would pray. that doesnt sound so mythological to me.

To suggest that Jesus as depicted in the Bible was just a "regular man" is disingenuous at best.

sure he may have HELPED people get better, i dont think he made them better with touch. i think that he prayed and then when he put his hands on them the prayer helped them.

Again, the point is that you believe this to be true absent any evidence that it is. In short, you believe that the stories about Jesus are true, yet if anyone else were to claim to have the abilities that Jesus was purported to have, you'd regard them with a healthy skepticism.

that goes on a lot today too. we have Benny Hinn putting his hands on people and they are healed. but they were healed through the prayers and their faith. not through his touch.

Hogwash. If they were in fact healed at all, which I find dubious, how do you know they were healed by anything other than their bodies natural healing ability?

My point is that people accept the stories written in the Bible as the truth, yet any other tale with fanciful elements would be rejected as pure fantasy.

that is because they were made and told in a fanciful manner. they were told for entertainment. not for truth

Again, the point is that you believe this to be true absent any evidence that it is. In short, you believe that the stories about Jesus are true, yet if anyone else were to claim to have the abilities that Jesus was purported to have, you'd regard them with a healthy skepticism.

he didnt have any "abilities" all he did was pray. this isnt presented in a fantasy manner.

Hogwash. If they were in fact healed at all, which I find dubious, how do you know they were healed by anything other than their bodies natural healing ability?

these ailments that these people are suffering are not things that the body can heal. its something that something more powerful *looks up* has to heal. you should watch this before you say something.
like ive said before. i have the evidence, that he is real, inside of me. i have felt him. you havnt because you havnt allowed him to. its your decision not his.

Originally posted by Rhojura
that is because they were made and told in a fanciful manner. they were told for entertainment. not for truth
Do you have some sort of mystical ability to know what the writers of the Bible wrote it for?
he didnt have any "abilities" all he did was pray. this isnt presented in a fantasy manner.
Didn't he get resurrected after dying?
these ailments that these people are suffering are not things that the body can heal. its something that something more powerful *looks up* has to heal. you should watch this before you say something.
Of course the body can heal itself. It cannot regrow limbs and such, but it can heal itself from disease. Science knows this well.
like ive said before. i have the evidence, that he is real, inside of me. i have felt him. you havnt because you havnt allowed him to. its your decision not his.
Oh bullshit. That's not evidence for anything. Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, your "feeling Jesus" is just wishful thinking, or psychosomatic? How the hell do you "feel Jesus", anyway? I was a Christian for a long while, and I don't recall ever "feeling Jesus". It doesn't make any sense, anyway...

crossova:
Even the NON-biblical evidence for the existence of Nazareth in the 1st century - the place he was supposed to have lived and preached would be helpful.
Actually, many evidences had been found where Jesus was mentioned by name. Diaries, journals, letters and the like.

BorgHunter:
Didn't he get resurrected after dying?
We were talking about His life, not His death and afterlife.
I was a Christian for a long while, and I don't recall ever "feeling Jesus". It doesn't make any sense, anyway...
You know what, that is how I felt. I told myself once: "Christianity makes no sense! What is up with that nonsense!?" So I became a buddhist (yeah, cause that made more sense) After some time, I was brought back by God, who had mercy on me and forgave me my transgressions. Now I believe and see and understand. Now I "feel Jesus." I pray that God might do the same for you.

Originally posted by STOpandthink

Actually, many evidences had been found where Jesus was mentioned by name. Diaries, journals, letters and the like.


Sources?

My teacher?...lol :) Ok, I gave that point up, so, whatever. No evidence without the Bible. That is, none that I can think of and provide evidence for.