But this story relates to before and during the maturing of the universe.
If He was around eternally then He would have existed before matter did. Before planets and such were to be in those gravitational patterns that we have today.
Also days and years vary depending on the planet, number of stars in the system, etc.

"for all we know a "day" for god could be a billion years"

the man was trying to make a point, no need to make it into an argument

Originally posted by Blob
A week is a man-made measure but days and years are a physical reality. A day is a rotation of the earth about its own axis and a year as an orbit of the earth about the sun.

for all we know a day for god is the one rotation of the entire galaxy

Originally posted by Travh20
for all we know a day for god is the one rotation of the entire galaxy

But then we wouldnt call that a Day would we.

He might

Originally posted by Evakian
He might

Which quite clearly is the reason the Bible cant be believed as total fact.

of course it is not total fact. as was said earlier, a lot of it is stories designed to teach lessons to people who at the time were uneducated.

Good thing too, since it isn't

Originally posted by Travh20
for all we know a day for god is the one rotation of the entire galaxy Oh goody - biblical hermeneutics. Can I have a go?

For all we know a day for god is a bunch of bananas.

Originally posted by Blob
Oh goody - biblical hermeneutics. Can I have a go?
For all we know a day for god is a bunch of bananas.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Me too?

For all we know, a day for god is...Boring.

yesterday, I saw a news report of a museum (I can't remember where) that had displays claiming the Noah had dinosaurs on his ark. People paid money to see this and came out believing it to be fact. This is why I belive that the bible says whatever YOU want it to without regards to what is fact or fiction.

Originally posted by Blob
Oh goody - biblical hermeneutics. Can I have a go?

For all we know a day for god is a bunch of bananas.

it must be sad to have no imagination. tell us, what is life like as an over educated robot?

Originally posted by Travh20
tell us, what is life like as an over educated robot? It's great fun.

For example, if some dumb yank fuck says "days and weeks and years are man made measures" you can show how stupid they are. The best bit is the way I can push them off the topic - which they know nothing about anyway - and reduce them to puerile personal insults.

that is what I figured. to smart to understand a rotation fo the earth would mean nothing if a man hadnt made it mean something. I am suprised you can get out of your house with such a giant brain

Originally posted by Travh20
that is what I figured. to smart to understand a rotation fo the earth would mean nothing if a man hadnt made it mean something Back on topic? Well done.

However a day corresponds to a physical event. Many creatures other than man live by the rhythm of the earh's physical rotation. It is not arbitary like an hour or a week.

You are wrong. I guess that's why you changed the subject and just insulted me instead.
I am suprised you can get out of your house with such a giant brainThat's better. At least when you simply insult people you hide your stupidity, a little anyway.

many creatures live by fractions of its rotation and other things like weather patterns too, so what? all i am saying is a day is aday becasue we made it so. not all creatures react exactly the same to changes in time, as humasn do becasue we have standardized a day al over the earth. 24 hours. I swear, you think your so smart but you cant see the obvious in front of your face.

A day is physical, the division into 24 hours is man-made.

Would you care to explain in what sense a day is not physical?

exactly, a day is 24 hours. how many animals have you talked to that agreed with that? a year is one revolution around the sun, man also decided that. of course these things are happening in real time, but someone had to decide that one was one thing and another was another.

Originally posted by Travh20
exactly, a day is 24 hours. how many animals have you talked to that agreed with that? a year is one revolution around the sun, man also decided that. of course these things are happening in real time, but someone had to decide that one was one thing and another was another. You seem confused.

Man labels things. Some of those things are physical realities such as a rotation of the earth on its axis or an orbit round the sun.

Others are arbitary such as the division of a rotation into 24 or the division of an orbit into 52.

This is why when you said "days and weeks and years are man made measures" you were correct for weeks but not for days or years. All planets have indisputable days and years corresponding to physical characteristics. But how would you ascribe a week to an alien planet? By grouping 7 days or by dividing a year into 52? There is no "correct" answer because there is no corresponding physical characteristic to ascribe a week to.

Originally posted by Travh20
exactly, a day is 24 hours. how many animals have you talked to that agreed with that? a year is one revolution around the sun, man also decided that. of course these things are happening in real time, but someone had to decide that one was one thing and another was another.

A day is one complete revolution of the earth on it's axis. This existed before there was "man" and will after he is gone. The term "day" was coined by man to explain this phenomena but the phenomena existed long before man had a name for it or divided it up into even periods.


Edit - sorry blob, you type faster than I do. :D

I understand that, but who is to say we couldnt have made a day 2 rotations of the earth or a year 2 revolutions around the sun?

Originally posted by Travh20
I understand that, but who is to say we couldnt have made a day 2 rotations of the earth or a year 2 revolutions around the sun? We could of. And if we had I would be arguing that half a day is a physical reality but 1 day is arbitary; and similarly for the word year.

so my point is, a day is man made, as far as we ar concerned. we made the rotation a day, not the other way around, as we could have made it anything we wanted

Originally posted by Travh20
I understand that, but who is to say we couldnt have made a day 2 rotations of the earth or a year 2 revolutions around the sun?

We define a day as the passage of morning, noon, afternoon, evening, night, dawn and back into morning.

As technology and society developed we discovered the time for all this to happen is a little over 24 hours.

Animals may not go off of 24 hours, but they go off what we did for a long time.

A year is the passage of Spring-Summer-Autumn- Winter and back into Spring.

See these are counted as one when it starts to repeat. That is why it is one and not two days or two years.
We could do it two years, but why? that does not make as much sense as going through the pattern once to count as 1 year. Going through the pattern TWICE should be considered 2 years

I understand the point you are trying to make, and it has validity. It just seems to have come out wrong and so Blob is able to prey upon you. Perhaps reword or remake your statements or reasons.

Just clarifying why a year is a year and a day is a day. :)

Originally posted by Travh20
so my point is, a day is man made, as far as we ar concerned. we made the rotation a day, not the other way around, as we could have made it anything we wanted

we could call 7.4578 rotations a "day" but that would defy logic. Oh yeah, this is a thread about religion. Carry on.

I understand all of that, believe me, I am saying, to a galactic all knowing imoratal being that doenst mean shit, especially when the earth hadnt been created yet to make a revolution

Originally posted by Travh20
I understand all of that, believe me, I am saying, to a galactic all knowing imoratal being that doenst mean shit, especially when the earth hadnt been created yet to make a revolution

It must have been created...where did he put the animals...in space?

Originally posted by Evakian
Blob is able to prey upon you. Perhaps reword or remake your statements or reasons. I'm not preying on anyone. I just made a point and trav insulted me.

This whole discussion began regarding how days and years are physical events as opposed to weeks which are arbitary. Trav is confusing the label with the thing, that is all.

maybe you brainiacs would be better served in the science forum, that seems to be all you want to talk about

To Trav, i hardly doubt time would mean anything to him, He couldn't possibly operate on such crude boundaries. He is a nonphysical being and therefore time is not an object that affects him.

To Blob, you were just proving points by disproving Trav, that is why i used the term preying upon.

To tapeworm, the animals and plants of the earthwere formed off one celled organisms that were brought about with water, sunlight, and the soil of the earth, Over time they evolved into what we see today, and over shorter periods they make adaptations to their enviroment.
The way life works, it multiplies, evolves, adapts, and continues to do so through time. Survival is the number one thought on their minds. Food to stay alive so they can grow and reproduce is all they do. We did that until we harnessed our skills to make technology to make work easier so we spend less time gathering food and more time doing what we want. In this case our world today came about because we are set apart from the animals.
Whoa, i just went on a rambling spree. Anyway, thats that.

To Trav again, Science, religion, philosophy, are three subjects that intertwine. Science being logical but without emotion, Religion being illogical but with much emotion, and philosophy being a product of the two based on views of individuals. All work together and are related, so we need them here discussing it with us. :)

So...if God made us is his image, and we took billions of years to evolve, does God look like an amoeba? I think you are rewriting the good book to try to fit what you already know must be true.

hehe, well-
if God made us is his image

- Does not refer to physical traits. It refers to our mental capabilities.
Some philosophers see the world as God's mental projection. The chair you sit in is not a chair but the mental projection of a chair by God.
We have imagination, we can conger up worlds in our heads, albeit they are alot less potent and detailed and don't function without us working on them, but we use our "god-like powers" to create worlds, reason and think.
That is how we are created in God's image.

And as for creation, the world (well, physical universe) was made by a mass of energy crushing itself into matter. The matter was then pushed until it couldn't take it anymore and exploded. The universe is a giant explosion and everything is fleeing from its epicenter. But the gravitational/magnetic forces will eventually call in the matter altogether once they stop and run out of juice to fling away from the epicenter. It all comes back and crushes and explodes again. the world may have been done by similar lifeforms like humans on another earth in a different period of the explosions. So civilizations more advanced or less advanced may have existed.
Tha explains where life came from and how the universe is how it is, but where did all this energy come from in the first place?
Interesting to think about isn't it?

Anyway, that is my take on it

Originally posted by Evakian
hehe, well-
if God made us is his image

- Does not refer to physical traits. It refers to our mental capabilities.
Some philosophers see the world as God's mental projection. The chair you sit in is not a chair but the mental projection of a chair by God.
We have imagination, we can conger up worlds in our heads, albeit they are alot less potent and detailed and don't function without us working on them, but we use our "god-like powers" to create worlds, reason and think.
That is how we are created in God's image.

And as for creation, the world (well, physical universe) was made by a mass of energy crushing itself into matter. The matter was then pushed until it couldn't take it anymore and exploded. The universe is a giant explosion and everything is fleeing from its epicenter. But the gravitational/magnetic forces will eventually call in the matter altogether once they stop and run out of juice to fling away from the epicenter. It all comes back and crushes and explodes again. the world may have been done by similar lifeforms like humans on another earth in a different period of the explosions. So civilizations more advanced or less advanced may have existed.
Tha explains where life came from and how the universe is how it is, but where did all this energy come from in the first place?
Interesting to think about isn't it?

Anyway, that is my take on it

I really, really hope that it does not refer to our mental capabilities. Really.

As to your creation of the world theory, once again you are making reference to modern scientific ideas. This is not what is presented in the bible. I think if I were God, and created the universe just as you described, AND left a book of my creation for men to study, learn and worship me from for generation after generation until I decide to destroy my fantastic planet, I would tell them the whole story of their origin. This would include facts such as the earth revolves around the sun and that there are many such suns which may be called stars and many other planets though you cannot see them at this time. I would tell them that they are only a small part of a larger puzzle and not the center of it all. I would explain that all life shares common structures (building blocks - DNA), etc. I would include many such things that men of the day could not understand but would in time, not just the ideas of the day.

People often ask, "what is the meaning of life?" I ask you, what is the meaning of your God? In other words, if everything in the bible is true, what gives God meaning? The only explanation that I can fathom is that man gives God meaning. Without man, God, or rather, the concept of God would not exist. It follows that the reason for God is to be worshiped (why any all powerful being needs this escapes me but it seems so) by men. It then follows that if men ceased to worship God, God would become meaningless.

If I were God and, for whatever reason, needed the worship of men to have meaning in this universe, I would write a definitive book of instruction that would stand the test of time, in ALL of it's claims, for all of eternity. This act should not be as hard as it seem as I would be all powerful.

Just something to think about...Have a good weekend and enjoy life.

Originally posted by Tapeworm
I really, really hope that it does not refer to our mental capabilities. Really.

As to your creation of the world theory, once again you are making reference to modern scientific ideas. This is not what is presented in the bible. I think if I were God, and created the universe just as you described, AND left a book of my creation for men to study, learn and worship me from for generation after generation until I decide to destroy my fantastic planet, I would tell them the whole story of their origin. This would include facts such as the earth revolves around the sun and that there are many such suns which may be called stars and many other planets though you cannot see them at this time. I would tell them that they are only a small part of a larger puzzle and not the center of it all. I would explain that all life shares common structures (building blocks - DNA), etc. I would include many such things that men of the day could not understand but would in time, not just the ideas of the day.

People often ask, "what is the meaning of life?" I ask you, what is the meaning of your God? In other words, if everything in the bible is true, what gives God meaning? The only explanation that I can fathom is that man gives God meaning. Without man, God, or rather, the concept of God would not exist. It follows that the reason for God is to be worshiped (why any all powerful being needs this escapes me but it seems so) by men. It then follows that if men ceased to worship God, God would become meaningless.

If I were God and, for whatever reason, needed the worship of men to have meaning in this universe, I would write a definitive book of instruction that would stand the test of time, in ALL of it's claims, for all of eternity. This act should not be as hard as it seem as I would be all powerful.

Just something to think about...Have a good weekend and enjoy life.

I really, really hope that it does not refer to our mental capabilities. Really.- Tapeworm

Hope all you want, won't change the fact that it is ;)

As to your creation of the world theory, once again you are making reference to modern scientific ideas- Tapeworm

Yep, about 100 years old or so, but still modern :)

This is not what is presented in the bible. - Tapeworm

They are modern scientific theories, of course they wouldn't be in the Bible. The Bible is not fact and is not intended to be fact, merely parables to teach farmers about morals.

created the universe just as you described, AND left a book of my creation for men to study- Tapeworm

GOD did no such thing, leave the Bible for us to read?? The Bible is literature written by many men over a long time.

, learn and worship me from for generation after generation until I decide to destroy my fantastic planet- Tapeworm

Armageddon is not a widely accepted Christian viewpoint, most do not accept this. It is fallacy

, I would tell them the whole story of their origin- Tapeworm

Why? My parents never bothered me telling me explicit details of my creation and birth, i do not care to know.

If i were God- Tapeworm

Well good thing you aren't :D because of what you think God should have done is ridiculous and foolhardy.

if everything in the bible is true- Tapeworm

Its not

what gives God meaning?-Tapeworm

He gives us meaning and we give Him meaning to us.

If I were God and, for whatever reason, needed the worship of men to have meaning in this universe, I would write a definitive book of instruction that would stand the test of time, in ALL of it's claims, for all of eternity. This act should not be as hard as it seem as I would be all powerful.- Tapeworm

Once again, good thing you aren't :D


You clearly lack understanding of the purpose and context of the Bible.

I really, really hope that it does not refer to our mental capabilities. Really.- Tapeworm

Hope all you want, won't change the fact that it is - Evakian

- Your opinion only. Cannot even remotely be presented as fact but a nice thought nonetheless.


As to your creation of the world theory, once again you are making reference to modern scientific ideas- Tapeworm

Yep, about 100 years old or so, but still modern - Evakian

- 100 years is considered modern in the course of human evolution. It can still be considered modern even if you go by the Bible’s estimate of the earth being only 6,000 – 9,000 years old .

This is not what is presented in the bible. - Tapeworm

They are modern scientific theories, of course they wouldn't be in the Bible. The Bible is not fact and is not intended to be fact, merely parables to teach farmers about morals. – Evakian

- Once again, this is your opinion. There are many out there that take every word as gospel truth. The fact now that people look at it as “parables” is simply a reflection of our increased knowledge base that directly results in our rejection of ridiculous supernatural claims. There was a time when rainfall was viewed as a direct gift from God and not a natural occurrence that helped give rise to life.



created the universe just as you described, AND left a book of my creation for men to study- Tapeworm

GOD did no such thing, leave the Bible for us to read?? The Bible is literature written by many men over a long time. - Evakian

- I am quite aware of this fact. My point, which either you failed to understand or you are just toying with me, is that if the Bible is the definitive book of God, and because of his apparent need to be worshiped, it would stand to reason that he must have guided the writing in some way or form. That is to say that his history and will was written through men, channeling his energy and spirit. One would also assume that every word in the book would be the absolute truth without exception. It would stand to reason that if this tome were to stand the test of time for all eternity, that it would also include certain facts that, although men of two thousand years ago might not fully comprehend, they would in fact be absolute truth that men would discover in time. We have already had a lengthy discussion here on the misguided notion of The Firmament. That is in chapter one.

, learn and worship me from for generation after generation until I decide to destroy my fantastic planet- Tapeworm

Armageddon is not a widely accepted Christian viewpoint, most do not accept this. It is fallacy – Evakian

- This was just a far out example that I used to keep with those ideas presented by hardcore believers. I think you know that but I have decided to address all of your issues point by point

, I would tell them the whole story of their origin- Tapeworm

Why? My parents never bothered me telling me explicit details of my creation and birth, i do not care to know. – Evakian

- Maybe I don’t want to know either, but I would assume that you would agree that many people would like to know at least some of the details of others. Why do think the porn industry is so huge? However, there are grander questions that people have desired to know the answers to since the dawn of cognition such as who am I, where did I come from and why am I here (as well as how did everything we sense start)? Without any knowledge of the workings of the world, including evolution, biology, mathematics and global geology man had no answer for these questions except that someone must have made all of this. What else could they think at that time? I remember reading Carl Sagan’s Cosmos many years ago where he wanted the reader to imagine a crystal clear star filled night, the kind that you don’t witness often anymore due to pollution and artificial light, and try to imagine the sense of wonder in early mans mind, looking upward to the sky. Religion soon followed. There were many gods long before the Christian God.

If i were God- Tapeworm

Well good thing you aren't because of what you think God should have done is ridiculous and foolhardy. – Evakian.

You laugh at the idea but my pets always have a roof over their heads and food to fill their bellies. This is more than I can say for millions of people.

if everything in the bible is true- Tapeworm

Its not - Evakian

- We finally agree but you seem comfortable being able to pick and choose what you want to believe hence my other post on the bible saying whatever you want it to.

what gives God meaning?-Tapeworm

He gives us meaning and we give Him meaning to us. – Evakian

- I don’t even have the foggiest idea what this means so I am unable to respond. Perhaps you could elaborate on this point.

If I were God and, for whatever reason, needed the worship of men to have meaning in this universe, I would write a definitive book of instruction that would stand the test of time, in ALL of it's claims, for all of eternity. This act should not be as hard as it seem as I would be all powerful.- Tapeworm

Once again, good thing you aren't - Evakian


- See above post (about three up)

You clearly lack understanding of the purpose and context of the Bible. - Evakian

- Thank God!
;) :)

Well, some of those comments were not good rebuttal, just statements that are humorous or opinonated.

To say those things you claim as "my opinion" are not just my opinion. The Church began back with the apostles of Jesus, he founded his Church with his disciple Peter as the leader (Upon this rock i build my church) (He renamed Peter to Peter, his real name was Simon) (The name Peter is translated into The Rock)

So in fact the Church actually founded by Jesus, and the one that only is seemingly affected by miracles (i.e.:the saintly incorruptables) which are scientific phenomena.

These are not my opinions but the teachings of the original Church, founded by Christ. And Jesus even professed that he taught in parables. The Bible is parables that are to explain to uneducated rabble of people in a simple way, that is not my opinion, that is fact. People taking it as fact are wrong.

And as for your statements regarding 'If i were God i would do such and such' i will either take that as you being funny or just being misled.

Anyway, this thread is tired and i'm done, enough is enough

Originally posted by Evakian

but we use our "god-like powers" to create worlds, reason and think.


People taking it as fact are wrong.

And as for your statements regarding 'If i were God i would do such and such' i will either take that as you being funny or just being misled.

Anyway, this thread is tired and i'm done, enough is enough

Not sure how I'm misled but perhaps "Satan" has a firm hold of me. Perhaps I have eaten an apple from the tree of knowledge and can't go back - as witnessed in the parable of Adam and Eve. Either way, I am relatively satisfied and when I get home, I am going to feed my pets. Then I am going to put on Aqualung by Jethro Tull. Enough is more than enough.

Trying to poke fun at me are you? The use of "Satan" having a grasp on you. Heh, if i ever catch myself saying that i would fling myself out the nearest window.

Anyway, Jethro Tull is pretty cool, although i hate them for what they did to the grammys way back when with Metallica and AC/DC.
What kind of pets do you have?

Originally posted by Evakian
Trying to poke fun at me are you? The use of "Satan" having a grasp on you. Heh, if i ever catch myself saying that i would fling myself out the nearest window.

Anyway, Jethro Tull is pretty cool, although i hate them for what they did to the grammys way back when with Metallica and AC/DC.
What kind of pets do you have?

I really am not trying to make fun of you. I think you often pose interesting arguments. I don't agree with you that often is all. Maybe there is a God. I don't know. I firmly believe that there isn't and have been told by several people that I will burn in hell for all of eternity. Maybe. I really, really don't think so. I want to enjoy this life and hopefully do some good while I'm here not out of fear, but out of human compassion.

I don't know what Tull did at the grammys. I remember hearing that they won once in a metal catagory but I would hardly consider them metal.

I have had many pets over the years but some had to be put to sleep when they were sick, old and suffering. Almost all were strays or from the SPCA. Right now I only have two cats left. One is about 15 or 16 (stray - age is hard to determine exactly) while the other is 3 (SPCA). The most I ever had at one time was five cats (all strays) and 2 dogs (one stray and one SPCA).