Today North Korea announced for the first time that it does possess nuclear weapons. It should be interesting to see what the response of the Bush administration will be.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&u=/nm/20050210/ts_nm/korea_north_talks_dc_7

we have known the have had nukes for years. It will be interesting to see all the libs demand an invasion. I know I have seen countless statements of "why didnt we attack north korea!!!?!?!"

I don't want them to attack North Korea, Iran or anybody just because they don't obey our demands.

BUT for all the Poli Sci geniuses who keep saying that attacking Iraq was necesary because of possible WMD and tyrrany, the question comes to mind "Why Iraq and not North Korea (who we KNOW has WMD. Big ass WMD)?"

Got it Trav: we were questioning the true motives of GWB not suggesting that we invade every country on the globe who doesn't conform to our ideas.

Ed Bland,

Seeing as how you know nothing about geography or polictical science, go to the librarry and get a world atlas. Look north of North Korea. That large country to the north is China. China that is governed by commies who are not friendly to the U.S. at all. China that has the largest army on the planet and won't hesitate to use it if the U.S. were to cross the 38th parallel. Do you really care to start world war three?

The U.S. does the best it can with what it has. Iraq had numerous U.N. resolutions hanging over its head, and a dictator that had no plans to disarm. The U.S. can and did do something to try and bring peace to that region of the world, and it started with taking out Saddam and trying to sow the seeds of democracy.

The U.S. can't do anything about North Korea militarily. Hats off to the Clinton Administration for handing us this problem.

Agreed, we've known they have nukes for some time now but this is the first they admit it.

Looks like NK is calling our bluff.

Does bush go in and take a chance or does he back off and crawl back to crawford with his tail between his legs?

Dop

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Ed Bland,

Seeing as how you know nothing about geography or polictical science, go to the librarry and get a world atlas. Look north of North Korea. That large country to the north is China. China that is governed by commies who are not friendly to the U.S. at all. China that has the largest army on the planet and won't hesitate to use it if the U.S. were to cross the 38th parallel. Do you really care to start world war three?

The U.S. does the best it can with what it has. Iraq had numerous U.N. resolutions hanging over its head, and a dictator that had no plans to disarm. The U.S. can and did do something to try and bring peace to that region of the world, and it started with taking out Saddam and trying to sow the seeds of democracy.

The U.S. can't do anything about North Korea militarily. Hats off to the Clinton Administration for handing us this problem.

1) Fuck you, you hateful son of a whore.

2) What seventh grader doesn't know the geographical relationship betwixt us, NK and China? My post (if you were to actually read it first) was letting Trav know that Liberals do not wish we would attack North Korea.

I don't care to start any kind of war.

I have always had the sneaking suspision that if we did go into N. Korea....China would NOT be happy....

Ed Bland,

No, don't fuck me, please. But you did ask why North Korea was not invaded while Iraq was and I answered your question. Here is your original quote:

"BUT for all the Poli Sci geniuses who keep saying that attacking Iraq was necesary because of possible WMD and tyrrany, the question comes to mind "Why Iraq and not North Korea (who we KNOW has WMD. Big ass WMD)?"

The question that comes to my mind is... what is NK's limit before they decide they're gonna fire one at us? They say they are using them as a defense against an "increasingly hostile US". Makes you sit back and think just what in the hell could really happen. Makes me feel like we're being backed into a corner and before too long, we'll be fighting our way out. Then what happens?

China that is governed by commies who are not friendly to the U.S. at all. China that has the largest army on the planet and won't hesitate to use it if the U.S. were to cross the 38th parallel. Do you really care to start world war three?
Ah, so the United States can't handle itself? Thought so. I truely do want to see the unilateralist's plan to fix this mess.

Originally posted by saycricket
The question that comes to my mind is... what is NK's limit before they decide they're gonna fire one at us? They say they are using them as a defense against an "increasingly hostile US". Makes you sit back and think just what in the hell could really happen. Makes me feel like we're being backed into a corner and before too long, we'll be fighting our way out. Then what happens?
I seriously doubt that North Korea intends to actually use their nukes. They probably just going to use them as a bargaining tool and a showing of power.

I thought there has been already some meetings to talk about NK nukes. Those meetings were not unilateral, China and Japan were also involved.
China is not in favor NK having nukes because the North-Korean dictator is totally crazy (he is mental really, I have seen a BBC documentary, one of the few where the dictator talks to foreign press and the dude is crazy, period.), so the guy is able to even nuked China.
Japan is not happy either because they have been the victims of countless North-Korean spionage, sabotage and even some Japanese citizens have been kept by force in North-Korea.
I am amazed that nobody has done something earlier against Mr Kim. I don't think it is US mission to attack North-Korea and I think even the US government thinks that China and Japan are key players in order to "eliminate" the North-Korean threat, as China and Japan would be their first victims.

Whether or not North Korea has nuclear weapons is unknown at this point. They certainly have both Plutonium and enriched Uranium, because inspectors have seen these substances. I think it is safe to assume they have one or two bombs, however they could be bluffing. It is safer to overestimate their capabilities than to underestimate them.
Given that Kim Jong Il is paranoid, it would be wise not to threaten him. His reaction could be very unpredictable. North Korea has very few friends in the world. They don't trust either Japan or China. If you look at the history of the area it is easy to see why. Both countries have repeatedly attacked and conquered Korea over thousands of years. In regard to South Korea, they feel that the South Koreans are ruled as a puppet state of the Americans. They will try to use their nuclear weapons to force the Americans to withdraw from the Korean peninsula so they can confront South Korea militarily one on one.
I think the danger to the United States will come if we don't withdraw. They may use one or more nuclear bombs on American cities to try to force our withdrawal. They would be counting on China's negative reaction to an American nuclear response to keep us from retaliating.
Of course if we show weakness by giving in to nuclear blackmail, we will face nuclear blackmail again. We can't afford to back down, and the cost of calling their hand could be very high indeed.
I would like to remind everyone that a nuclear weapon does not need to be delivered by missile or plane. Anyone can easily guess that if tons of cocaine can be smuggled into the country, a nuclear weapon could be smuggled just as easily. World war could easily result from any miscalculation.

It is safer to overestimate their capabilities than to underestimate them. Right you are, Ken. :)

I'm not trying to play idiot here, but what are the repercussions from say, a "small" nuke being smuggled into this Country and detonated? Anyone know? You hear horror stories about the end of the world, yadda yadda yadda, but in reality, what are we looking at? And what would you consider the most likely target to be? I'd have to say Washington DC #1.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Ed Bland,

No, don't fuck me, please. But you did ask why North Korea was not invaded while Iraq was and I answered your question. Here is your original quote:

"BUT for all the Poli Sci geniuses who keep saying that attacking Iraq was necesary because of possible WMD and tyrrany, the question comes to mind "Why Iraq and not North Korea (who we KNOW has WMD. Big ass WMD)?"

I'll try to re-iterate one last time:

My "question comes to mind" statement is a response to the "we are out to stop WMD and tyranny in the world" line that the Right Wing is currently touting.

I do not literally mean that we should attack NK. I was trying to underline the logical inconsistency.

I can't believe that anyone - even a Republican - would be as dense as you are pretending to be.

Originally posted by Imagineer
Whether or not North Korea has nuclear weapons is unknown at this point. They certainly have both Plutonium and enriched Uranium, because inspectors have seen these substances. I think it is safe to assume they have one or two bombs, however they could be bluffing. It is safer to overestimate their capabilities than to underestimate them.
Given that Kim Jong Il is paranoid, it would be wise not to threaten him. His reaction could be very unpredictable. North Korea has very few friends in the world. They don't trust either Japan or China. If you look at the history of the area it is easy to see why. Both countries have repeatedly attacked and conquered Korea over thousands of years. In regard to South Korea, they feel that the South Koreans are ruled as a puppet state of the Americans. They will try to use their nuclear weapons to force the Americans to withdraw from the Korean peninsula so they can confront South Korea militarily one on one.
I think the danger to the United States will come if we don't withdraw. They may use one or more nuclear bombs on American cities to try to force our withdrawal. They would be counting on China's negative reaction to an American nuclear response to keep us from retaliating.
Of course if we show weakness by giving in to nuclear blackmail, we will face nuclear blackmail again. We can't afford to back down, and the cost of calling their hand could be very high indeed.
I would like to remind everyone that a nuclear weapon does not need to be delivered by missile or plane. Anyone can easily guess that if tons of cocaine can be smuggled into the country, a nuclear weapon could be smuggled just as easily. World war could easily result from any miscalculation.

If they even TRIED to nuke anything close to America they would be taken out of the Atlas (you know, "wiped off the map").

I don't know how I feel about the whole "blackmail" idea. You know they would hit NY or LA. Ask the millions of people there wether we can afford to play chicken with nukes.

Originally posted by Imagineer

They will try to use their nuclear weapons to force the Americans to withdraw from the Korean peninsula so they can confront South Korea militarily one on one.
I think the danger to the United States will come if we don't withdraw. They may use one or more nuclear bombs on American cities to try to force our withdrawal. They would be counting on China's negative reaction to an American nuclear response to keep us from retaliating.



The first paragraph is a very good point. I wouldn't like to leave the South Koreans at the mercy of Mr. Kim. Although South Korea has also a powerful army (supplied by the US and other Europeans countries), so they might have a chance against North Korea.

About the second paragraph, I think China would never allow North Koreans to really mess up with their main market: the US. One thing is to have diplomatic incidents, another one is to actually have a war.

LOL, if you think N Korea is going to hit us with a nuke while we sit there and ask China for permission to retaliate your insane, that would only happen if a democrat was in office.

Originally posted by Travh20
LOL, if you think N Korea is going to hit us with a nuke while we sit there and ask China for permission to retaliate your insane, that would only happen if a democrat was in office.
I think what he meant was that China will do their part to make sure North Korea doesn't hit us, or anyone else, to begin with. That's why the Bush administration is insisting on six-party negotiations; because it's their problem as much as it is ours.

I think that if North Korea were to use a nuke on us, we would nuke them back. I just wonder what the Chinese reaction would be to a radioactive cloud drifting over China and causing illnesses and deaths there.
As far as China influencing North Korea, I think they have little influence over North Korea. They are traditional enemies, and during the Korean War when they intervened they never asked the North Koreans for permission. They just sent their army across the border and told the North Koreans they were there to help, and by the way their generals were now in charge. It was only due to pressure from the Soviet Union that the Chinese left after the war. They have no reason to trust China, and many historical reasons to fear them.

Yeah sure thing -- they're gonna lob a few nukes and then we'll lob a few and then the whole world ends.

Truth is we won't do anything ... NK has no oil. On to Syria and Iran where they have our oil buried under their sand and we can kill innocents with impunity because they have brown skin and aren christians.

Dop

Blank,

The one being dense is you. I've explained, over and over on other posts taht the U.S. does the best it can with what it has. The U.S. can't take military action against North Korea because China would get involved. The U.S. could and did take out Saddam, both to rid the world of another dictator and to try to sow the seeds of democracy in a region of the world that is ran almost exculisively by authoritarian thugs. There is no idealogical inconsistancy with our stance.


Dop,

Thanks for wasting bandwidth on yet another crap post. In case you haven't noticed, the U.S. has tried to provide those brown skin muslims with the same rights, freedoms and dignities that we take for granted here in the U.S.

Thats Bush Ive always wanted another arms race to destruction.

Here ya go.

What Iraq taught the rest of the world. Destroying your seapons does nothing but leave you vulnerable to invasion. The first imperialist scum bag to come along merely has to point and yell "shes a witch..er,I mean...WMD!" and youre invaded.

Get armed fast, like NK, and you can threaten the US all you want and fear no risk of invasion.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
In case you haven't noticed, the U.S. has tried to provide those brown skin muslims with the same rights, freedoms and dignities that we take for granted here in the U.S.

Yeah -- they have new rights for sure ... the right to be dead, the right to have their homes levelled and the right to have their schools, hospitals and ifastructure destroyed beyond recognition.

Dop

I think a lot of them were dead and dying before we even launched the first attack. Thanks to Mr. Saddam and his men, but somehow we never really discuss that.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Blank,

The one being dense is you. I've explained, over and over on other posts taht the U.S. does the best it can with what it has. The U.S. can't take military action against North Korea because China would get involved. The U.S. could and did take out Saddam, both to rid the world of another dictator and to try to sow the seeds of democracy in a region of the world that is ran almost exculisively by authoritarian thugs. There is no idealogical inconsistancy with our stance.


So we will do the "right" thing as long as China doesn't mind.

I don't necesarilly disagree with saving the world. I am calling "bullshit" on you right wingers who claim that that is what we are doing.

Originally posted by saycricket
I think a lot of them were dead and dying before we even launched the first attack. Thanks to Mr. Saddam and his men, but somehow we never really discuss that.

You think or you know

Dop

JFC Dop, you KNOW as well as I do the horrors that Hussein inflicted on his own people. Let's not debate that issue now.

Here's a bulletin for ya cricket ... there are people counting and bush is quickly closing in on saddams kill record. Given another year or so of the same and the united states will have killed more Iraquis then Saddam.

Sleep well.

Dop

Ok, here we go again. The US is probably closing in on that number. Yeah, I know. However, have you looked at all the suicide bombers, car bombers, etc. that destory their own people? We certainly cannot be blamed for each and every death that occurs... unless of course you want to stretch that to blame us for going there in the first place. Does it ever end with you?