While surfing the web for information on Midevel beliefs once, I couldn't help but to ask this question. I ran across an article on Ancient Celtic practices and the mystic art of Druidism, and began to wonder "Exactly how did the Art of Sorcery begin"? Also, how and why did so many people later abandon it for other religions including Christanity?


Anyone here have a Clue?

I am a learning Druid have been for 10+ years. Be very carefull which Druid sites you go to, certain neo-druids don't hold a grain of salt as far as I am concerned.

Druidry was never abandoned it is just in hiding, fear of being called/condemned witches, demons, etc.... Druidry was/should be the study of nature and science. It is the belief in earth, wind, fire, water and spirit. Roman Catholics fought the celtics and told them either except or die, Druids where the leaders of the celtic people so they excepted the threat. The monks were the only ones that wrote about the Druids, then alot of that was lost to fire. Druids did not believe in writting, so much, they felt that written records could be changed{which is true take the Bible}. Druids did not practice sorcery{sorcery- the use of power gained from the assistance or control of evil spirits} they just took the time to learn and then used their knowledge{over a 20 year schooling}. We do not/did not believe in the devil hell etc... although we do believe in mishievous spirits that can cause problems. Druidry is interesting but be carefull of all the false stuff that is out there. Do not get Druids mixed up with witches, there is a big difference.

Originally posted by mad dog
Druidry is interesting but be carefull of all the false stuff that is out there. Do not get Druids mixed up with witches, there is a big difference.

I learned about that during Halloween :)

There are all kinds of magic out there like Voodoo, Yoga (the true Yoga, not the shit that comes on the Oxygen Network), and Zen.

It all has to do with harnessing the energy of mind and nature. It's very real.

Absolutely. Meditation, yoga, and the like can really push your mind where you didn't think it was possible. But should you venture there?
Sorcery probably began with tricking other people into believing that you have certain powers that you don't, then some actually did have "powers" (probably scientifically based) and used those to astonish people, then later there were demon possessed people who could do real miracles.
When Christ came He casted out all the demons, who fell before Him and confessed Him as the Christ. What side would you rather be on?
The point is: most sorcery and magic is deception and if it's not that you don't want non of it because it's most likely dark magic (meaning that it comes from devil)

Originally posted by STOpandthink
Absolutely. Meditation, yoga, and the like can really push your mind where you didn't think it was possible. But should you venture there?

why shouldn't a person find their most inner strength, to do anything less would only be cheating yourself.


The point is: most sorcery and magic is deception and if it's not that you don't want non of it because it's most likely dark magic (meaning that it comes from devil)

This is the biggest line of bull pie there is, most magic that is used is good. It does not come from a dark side it comes from good or positive energy. I would say that dark magic is very low on the % scale. By your above post I can see you don't know much about Wicca, magic, etc....

Maddog i know jack all but am interested. Care to explain (possibly in a new post) all about it, your dealings with it, the myths of whats real and what isnt and the biggest question i think.... Is anything in the movie "Charmed" possible?

The folks that I have met that are witches {Wicca} are very nice people. I do not study Wicca only know what I have seen. Druids were at one time called devil followers which is just plain stupid because we don't buy into all the hell, devil BS. The "magic"{use the term lose} that Druids use is simple when a person finds it. Go back in time to when the 1st gun powder was made this would have been considered magic by some, but a Druid would have know it was certain things taken from the earth. Druids could heel certain ills, not so much by magic but more by knowing plants and how to convert positive energy. Christians at the time did not like anything that differed from their point of view so it was instantly labelled the work of the devil. Druids also had knowledge that the earth went around the sun but of course this was not true according to the powers of the church.

As far as the movie Charmed goes I quess in a slight way some things could work. Sometimes all people need is an ego boost and their whole life can change, is it magic or did they finally get in touch with there inner power???

Originally posted by mad dog
This is the biggest line of bull pie there is, most magic that is used is good. It does not come from a dark side it comes from good or positive energy. I would say that dark magic is very low on the % scale. By your above post I can see you don't know much about Wicca, magic, etc....

"In more than one way do people sacrifice to fallen angels." (Saint Augustine)

Just because druids don't believe in devil and don't follow him, doesn't mean it makes them on the side of light. From Christian stand point (my standpoint), anybody who is not with God is against Him. Meaning that if the druids find the nature holy or miraculous or they worship it or adore it, then they are agains God. They see the nature, but they are too blind to see its Creator.
Am I wrong? May be they don't worship it. From your words they sound like nice people, except they dont have Christ in their lives.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
Just because druids don't believe in devil and don't follow him, doesn't mean it makes them on the side of light.

Druids believe in many things, I can not speak for all Druids. I am more of a shaman, I believe the creater is the natural force of things. It is to hard to explain God, Christians feel they have done this with no proof to back it up. I would not even try to preach to you who/what God is. I can tell you what I see and believe but don't you think it is awfully bold of any man to think they know God? I believe in many spirits and that spirits can help etc..., but as for God/creater/life force/etc.. it is anyones quess


From Christian stand point (my standpoint), anybody who is not with God is against Him

well that would be very narrow minded? Why can't a person see God in their own way, just because you worship one way does not mean another way is wrong. My religious beliefs go much further back then Christianity{atleast 5000+ years before all the Christ stuff}. Just because I don't follow a mans religion does not mean I am against it or some sort of evil demon.


Meaning that if the druids find the nature holy or miraculous or they worship it or adore it, then they are agains God.

Where are you comming up with this, doesn't Christianity have angles, the mother, etc.... would this mean if you believe in the power of an angle then you don't believe in the creator? Isn't God nature?

They see the nature, but they are too blind to see its Creator.

Once again I can see you know nothing about Druids, just remember what happens when you assume.


Am I wrong?

yes very much so, infact their are Christian Druids, you{christians} even have a Druid Bishop.

May be they don't worship it. From your words they sound like nice people, except they dont have Christ in their lives.

So if someone doesn't buy into the Christ deal then this instantly makes them evil or followers of the devil? I don't believe in the devil because of the research I have done. I do believe there was a religious man{Christ}, but I do not see any proof that he was God or the son of. I think it is very narrow minded of people to judge or put a label on another because they don't see things the same. I have met just as many bad people that believe in Christ. Believing in something does not make a person good or bad it has to go along with actions as well.

Christianity has magic. "Faith Healers" are an example. But at the church I attend, people pray for jobs, money, peace of mind, anything they want. That is the essence of sorcery, using supernatural powers to achieve Earthly goals.

Good point, Ed. Even Christians ask God to use His power for our earthly happiness, but most of us add: "Your will be done."
Mad dog,
I am not saying I know God. That is foolishness. I am saying I know the kind of God that exists, i.e. Christian God, God of Abraham, Isaac, Moses,...and Jesus Christ.
I don't care how far your belief goes, do you not know Genesis? From the beginning of the world, yes, from the very beginning, there was man worshiping God. You can't beat that. Also, since I am a Christian, it does require me do be close minded on some part. For me all other religions are wrong, some more so, some less.
God isn't nature, just like computer is not human. God created nature, God created angels, God created everything, and He uses all of those things for His purpose. The key concept is that everything comes from God, by God, and for God. There in nothing of itself, nothing independed of God.
I agree that I know nothing about druids. All I know is what you tell me and some of my, as you correctly said, assumption. I am sorry, so please correct me when I am wrong.
I am not aware of any Druid Bishop.
And I absolutely agree with you that believes have to go with actions. I, too, know many people who will tell you they will die for Christ and God, but then won't move a finger to help their neighbour. It's sad.
I don't really believe that non-Christians are automatically condemnded to hell, but it's a dangerous path to take. God is merciful, but He is also just.
Also, are you calling Christ a liar? If He did existe and He did say those things, but you don't accept them, then you must think He is lying. Do you?

I have witnessed much in my years that would have been labeled miracle, act of God, magic, etc.
Most appear to have been accomplished by the powers of humans making contact with the natural forces of nature.
Methods vary, the results are the same.
Finding your personal key(method) is the answer.

Can you be more specific? Natural forces of nature???

Originally posted by STOpandthink
Can you be more specific? Natural forces of nature???
--------------------
Miracles and magic cease to be such, when man realizes that anything can be accomplished by harnessing the natural abilities of man. Most people are limited by self imposed limits.
All things are possible when the basic building blocks of nature are utilized to bring about the desired results.
Handed down mis-information has taught man to rely on external forces, as a ship relies upon the wind direction, to carry him to a predetermined destination.
Some rely upon a God to create them a Heaven.
Some learn that they are a God in their own right-and create their own Heaven.
Some cannot comprehend this, but those that would be as children can comprehend because they are not yet endoctrinated into the handed down mis-conseptions of others.

Ok, now it makes sense. What you are trying to say is that a man imposes limits on his true power, but if he doesn't, and instead opens his mind, then he can be godlike.
Well show me a godlike man then.......

Originally posted by STOpandthink
Ok, now it makes sense. What you are trying to say is that a man imposes limits on his true power, but if he doesn't, and instead opens his mind, then he can be godlike.
Well show me a godlike man then.......
------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus, Mohammad, Buddah are some we have heard of.
Some choose to remain silent.

That's illogical. You are calling all of them liars. Do you realize that?
None of them said: "Open your mind and become godlike." No, they called for submission to God.

I call mens interpretation of their message a lie.
Even Jesus tried to tell them if they knew how they could tell a mountain to move and it would.
Jesus told them that if they knew how they could do the same things he did, no even greater things he said.
These things are found in the Book of John.

I believe man in his veal to create a religion lost much of the teachings of these great men.

For further reference read the Gospel of Thomas as example:
(108) Jesus said: He who drinks from my mouth will become like me, and I will become like him, and the hidden things will be revealed to him.

I doubt the truth of Apocryphal Gospels.
Also, when Jesus said that we could move mountains, he said that we can do it only if our faith is strong, and by faith, He clearly meant faith in Him and the Father.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
I doubt the truth of Apocryphal Gospels.
Also, when Jesus said that we could move mountains, he said that we can do it only if our faith is strong, and by faith, He clearly meant faith in Him and the Father.
---------------------------------------------

You use phrases like "I doubt the truth", and "clearly meant."
You use the name stop and think, yet- apparantly do not.
Maybe we can talk again when your research and life experience has progressed close to another half century as mine has.
Right now you appear to be at the "listen to handed-down teachings of others" point in life as I was once.
Have a good day.

Ha! I can assure you that you are wrong! I know exactly what you are talking about, and I can assure you that I am Christian by my own choice. Before that I was Christian by my parents' choice, then I chose Buddhism, and then I moved back to Xnity, but my OWN choice.
I agree that you are older, yet age is not everything. (although a lot) If you don't want to listen to me because I am young, that is your right.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
Mad dog,
I am not saying I know God. That is foolishness. I am saying I know the kind of God that exists, i.e. Christian God, God of Abraham, Isaac, Moses,...and Jesus Christ.

so you are saying you know who God is, If you use mans religion to say how one goes to heaven, hell, mars, etc... I have been around Christians all my life and the story is basicly the same. Christains seem to think they know atleast part of Gods plan, heaven or hell. I am not against Christians but what gives them the power to judge or atleast think they know the judgement of God?

I don't care how far your belief goes, do you not know Genesis? From the beginning of the world, yes, from the very beginning, there was man worshiping God.

I was just trying to point out that Druids, Wicca, etc.. are not new beliefs they have been around for a long time.

Also, since I am a Christian, it does require me do be close minded on some part. For me all other religions are wrong, some more so, some less.

This would be my point how do you know 100% that you are correct? If you can say another religion is wrong then you must be speaking for God?


God isn't nature, just like computer is not human. God created nature, God created angels, God created everything, and He uses all of those things for His purpose. The key concept is that everything comes from God, by God, and for God. There in nothing of itself, nothing independed of God.

God created, and is nature God/gods/the force is everything. Computers are man made I would like to see a man make a living being out of thin air.

I agree that I know nothing about druids. All I know is what you tell me and some of my, as you correctly said, assumption. I am sorry, so please correct me when I am wrong.

I just think it would be better for religions or beliefs to share thoughts instead of saying "my way is right and yours is wrong". Like I have said I doubt the Bible and mans religion because of things I have researched, but I can't say 100% that it is wrong. As Dan has explained I also believe alot of the real message has been lost.


I am not aware of any Druid Bishop.

I can not think of his name off the top of my head I will try to find it for you.


And I absolutely agree with you that believes have to go with actions. I, too, know many people who will tell you they will die for Christ and God, but then won't move a finger to help their neighbour. It's sad.

It is good that you can see how some will use a name to look good. I believe actions speak alot louder then words. A person can say anything to fit in but actions are what set us apart.


I don't really believe that non-Christians are automatically condemnded to hell, but it's a dangerous path to take. God is merciful, but He is also just.

This is the stuff I am talking about you claim you do not speak for God, but then turn around and tell me I may be in danger of his wrath. How do you know that this is Gods plan? If God gives me the power to learn and be open minded then how come I have to become narrow minded to go to the good place?


Also, are you calling Christ a liar?

NO. I am calling the interpreters liars. I believe Christ may have had answers, but as stories went back in the day they grew. It's the old tell a story to ten people by the time it gets to the tenth it is different. Example Joe gets his arm caught in a piece of farm equipment and gets a bad cut, by the time the story reaches Drew{#10} he hears that Joe broke his arm in 5 places.

Originally posted by STOpandthink

I don't care how far your belief goes, do you not know Genesis? From the beginning of the world, yes, from the very beginning, there was man worshiping God. You can't beat that.

Quickly refresh me on where Dinosaurs come into this, cause im pretty sure they were around long before man?

Loki, God made all sorts of animals before He made humans. What makes you think He didn't make your dinosaurs?
If you use mans religion to say how one goes to heaven, hell, mars, etc... I have been around Christians all my life and the story is basicly the same. Christains seem to think they know atleast part of Gods plan, heaven or hell. I am not against Christians but what gives them the power to judge or atleast think they know the judgement of God?
I don't use man's religion, I use the "religion" that God gave mankind.
If you are refering to people who tell you "Oh, you will go to hell", then I agree that they shouldn't speak like that, however I friendly reminder never hurts.
This would be my point how do you know 100% that you are correct? If you can say another religion is wrong then you must be speaking for God?
I am not speaking for God, because God told me and everybody who is willing to listen, that He is the only true God to whom worship is due. He said that so I know I am correct. (I know it's circular reasoning)
God created, and is nature God/gods/the force is everything. Computers are man made I would like to see a man make a living being out of thin air.
You are not making sense. God created everything out of nothing. Computers are man-made, everything is God-made. Computers are not us, everything is not God, but it is only made by God. By looking at anything we can see a trace of God in it, but it's foolish to say that nature is God. It's like saying that math is God, or biology. Those are simply some ways the God manifested Himself to us, some ways for us to find Him.
How do you know that this is Gods plan? If God gives me the power to learn and be open minded then how come I have to become narrow minded to go to the good place?
I know a part of God's plan--the one He made manifest in the Bible. The Bible says that one can be only saved through Christ, meaning you have to have faith in Him or you will go to hell. Does one have a chance to repent when one dies? I don't know, I am not counting on it, and I wouldn't advise anybody to. It might very well be that once you die, you are just "evaluated" and cast into appropriate place. If you want to stake your life on a chance that you will have time to repent when you die, that's your choice.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
Loki, God made all sorts of animals before He made humans. What makes you think He didn't make your dinosaurs?


You dumb shit, it says he made the earth in 7 days so explain to me how it was that the dinosaurs were around for millions of years. I am honestly going to have to stop reading your posts soon since the stress of having to indure such stupidity is starting to hurt.

I'll address it in the appropriate post.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
I don't use man's religion, I use the "religion" that God gave mankind.
If you are refering to people who tell you "Oh, you will go to hell", then I agree that they shouldn't speak like that, however I friendly reminder never hurts.

this is your opinion it does not mean that it is Gods. I believe in something different, as good as the Bible may be for learning it is not Gods word it is mans.

I am not speaking for God, because God told me and everybody who is willing to listen, that He is the only true God to whom worship is due. He said that so I know I am correct. (I know it's circular reasoning)

I would bet God didn't tell you this but instead you read it or heard it from another human?

By looking at anything we can see a trace of God in it, but it's foolish to say that nature is God. It's like saying that math is God, or biology. Those are simply some ways the God manifested Himself to us, some ways for us to find Him.

Wouldn't God be true science? wouldn't God be everything, except what man has made, example; car, bike, cigar, soda, drugs etc...

I know a part of God's plan

so you can speak for God

--the one He made manifest in the Bible. The Bible says that one can be only saved through Christ, meaning you have to have faith in Him or you will go to hell.

So you are saying that mans word is Gods word, I disagree. If this were the case then Christianity and the Bible would be the only religion. There would be no room for others, or even questioning.

Does one have a chance to repent when one dies? I don't know, I am not counting on it, and I wouldn't advise anybody to. It might very well be that once you die, you are just "evaluated" and cast into appropriate place. If you want to stake your life on a chance that you will have time to repent when you die, that's your choice.

So lets say your way is the correct way, would you say God is loving and understanding? If so then wouldn't God understand why some may not believe in a man written religion?

Wouldn't God be true science? wouldn't God be everything, except what man has made, example; car, bike, cigar, soda, drugs etc...
No, you are not getting it. God is present in all those things, but He is not all those things. Just like a spirit of man is present in a car, bike, cigar, or whatever. We can look at a cigar and say: "Yeah, this was made by man." We know that and it's obvious to us. To Christians it's as obvious to look at a tree, grass, sun, brain, and say "Yeah, God made that." It doesn't mean God IS that.
so you can speak for God
Yeah...I suppose I can to some extension. Although, as I said before, I am trying to say ONLY the things that I read in the Bible.
So you are saying that mans word is Gods word, I disagree. If this were the case then Christianity and the Bible would be the only religion. There would be no room for others, or even questioning.
No...that wasn't my message. Explain what you mean.
So lets say your way is the correct way, would you say God is loving and understanding? If so then wouldn't God understand why some may not believe in a man written religion
God is certainly loving and understanding. He is also just, holy, omnipotent, ominscient, eternal, and unchanging. I am sure He would "understand" (meaning see your reasons) why some may not believe, but it doesn't mean He will forgive.
Example: Let's say a man killed his wife because she had sex with another man. A judge may understand that, but he will condemn the man, nonetheless.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
]No, you are not getting it. God is present in all those things, but He is not all those things. Just like a spirit of man is present in a car, bike, cigar, or whatever.

the spirit of a human is in a materialistic thing???? I would say not. I can make a bike and put my name on it but my spirit does not enter the bike. You are getting spiritual mixed up with brand name. God can be in a living growing thing, anything natural, but sorry not in a car. Chevy, ford, nissan are not part of God. Man can make something and he can put care into what he makes but his spirit is not in the painting, car or cigar just his ideas.

We can look at a cigar and say: "Yeah, this was made by man." We know that and it's obvious to us. To Christians it's as obvious to look at a tree, grass, sun, brain, and say "Yeah, God made that." It doesn't mean God IS that.

Can God be seperate and joined at the same time? Example can God be part of you and by itself?

Yeah...I suppose I can to some extension. Although, as I said before, I am trying to say ONLY the things that I read in the Bible.

Well good for you, but in other post you said you could not speak for God. I can believe in the higher power but I'ld be a fool if I thought I could speak for it. When You use the Bible aren't you just useing another mans ideas?

No...that wasn't my message. Explain what you mean.

If the Bible were 100% correct then there would be no room for other religions. If the Bible is the word of the most powerfull thing ever known then I would bet the message would have gotten across to everyone.

God is certainly loving and understanding. He is also just, holy, omnipotent, ominscient, eternal, and unchanging. I am sure He would "understand" (meaning see your reasons) why some may not believe, but it doesn't mean He will forgive.

So unlike most parents that truely would love their child, God will send his child to an eternal hell? doesn't sound like love to me more like a mean head game. Even if my kids didn't want to believe that I am one of their parents I would not let them suffer for an eternity. "Sorry little Joe but you don't believe I'm your daddy so I think I'll make you suffer forever." With this I have just thought of another thread I will post.

You don't understand it. May be it's my fault.
God is in everything, yes, even in cars and cigarets. God is everything, but those things aren't God. (ex: Apples are fruits. Fruits aren't apples.)
The actual spirit of man doesn't enter a thing he made, that's rediculous. I am saying that when a man makes something, he leaves his "imprint" on it. So does God. If you open your eyes, you can see His impring on every single thing.
Yes, God can be everywhere. He is God! He can be a part of me and a part of you, if you accept Him.
I can't speak for God, but I can quote Him. The Bible is His word and the word of His people. I can quote that, my it doesn't mean I am speaking for Him. From my standpoint, those ideas are God's, from yours, man's.
If the Bible were 100% correct then there would be no room for other religions. If the Bible is the word of the most powerfull thing ever known then I would bet the message would have gotten across to everyone.
You fell into the same pit as others in Religion forum. :( What makes you think that??? I don't see any logic behind that statement. Ceirtainly God could make everyone believe in Him, but He chooses to let us have our free will and choose Him by our own choice. And what would be a purpose of that choice if He was seen plainly by everybody?? That would be silly.
Also, God is more than our father, He is our creator.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
You don't understand it. May be it's my fault.
God is in everything, yes, even in cars and cigarets. God is everything, but those things aren't God. (ex: Apples are fruits. Fruits aren't apples.)
The actual spirit of man doesn't enter a thing he made, that's rediculous. I am saying that when a man makes something, he leaves his "imprint" on it. So does God. If you open your eyes, you can see His impring on every single thing.
Yes, God can be everywhere. He is God! He can be a part of me and a part of you, if you accept Him.

we are probably on the same note, I do agree with most of what you say. The part I don't agree with is the materialistic stuff{drugs, cigars, cars, beer} but hey that's the new world :(


I can't speak for God, but I can quote Him. The Bible is His word and the word of His people. I can quote that, my it doesn't mean I am speaking for Him. From my standpoint, those ideas are God's, from yours, man's.

I can see where you are comming from but I still strongly disagree that the Bible is the word of God. It is the word of men it is their interpretation of how God might want us to behave.

You fell into the same pit as others in Religion forum. :( What makes you think that???

well lets see the Bible has changed there have been different interpretations and things lost through fire, thieving, and power struggles. I believe the Bible could hold a message{way to live}, but I highly doubt it is Gods word.

I don't see any logic behind that statement. Ceirtainly God could make everyone believe in Him, but He chooses to let us have our free will and choose Him by our own choice. And what would be a purpose of that choice if He was seen plainly by everybody?? That would be silly.

would it not have been nice to have a past with no holy wars? This alone would be enough reason to straighten out the whole who is the true God/gods/religion. We still could have our free choice but one thing we could agree on is who/what God is.

I also see you left out my comment about a parent and children this seems funny to me. I will ask you this if you had the power...... One of your kid comes up to you and says, "sir I do not belive you are my father" Would you being a loving father and the creator of that child condemn them to an eternal hell?

well lets see the Bible has changed there have been different interpretations and things lost through fire, thieving, and power struggles. I believe the Bible could hold a message{way to live}, but I highly doubt it is Gods word.
Ok, let's be perfectly honest here. The Bible was written by men. Yes, you heard me right. But those men were infused with the Holy Spirit, so I have every reason to believe what they said. We still need to remember they were men, and God probably didn't tell them what to write (OT is a different story, but not entirely). They wrote what they thought were the facts, that is why there are some "cotradictions" (I would like to call the discrepancies). They were men, just like us, except they knew the word of God. That is some numbers may not match from book to book, some facts are left there, but present in the other book. What we need to look at is the big picture: Christ and what He did. There are not cotradictions there. Love is present in all books, so let's focus on love. Salvation throught Christ is present in all books, let's focus on that. Giant men are mentioned in one place, let's not argue about what it means. Look at the big picture.
would it not have been nice to have a past with no holy wars?
I think yes. But who am I? I am just a man with limited knowledge and perception. If I see that God does something different than what I think is "right", then I know that my "right" is actually wrong. Sometimes I can't help it, but wonder about why God does something. But you know what? He knows everything, past and future. When He makes a choice, He has all the data needed, I don't. How can I say 'boo' to Him?
I also see you left out my comment about a parent and children this seems funny to me.
I wouldn't. Why would I? But the case with God is different. In fact it's so different, it's not comparable. God is the creator of the our soul, our essense. Without me, my son can have a great life nonetheless. Without God, we can't have a good life (that is we won't have a good life). God made us out of love, so we can love Him and rejoice in Him. A child is born not serve with his parents, not to stay with them, but to become it's own identity and separate. We can't become separate from God. If we do, we condemn ourselves to death. We become separate from Life.

I don't know about the whole sorcery thing.... I think people just had certain gifts and still do. Depending on whether the person decides to use it for good or evil reasons is what makes it scorcery or a god given gift. I have been able to move objects in my life without touching them (don't think I'm a nut job, it's not something I'm proud of) but it only seems to happen when I am angry at someone. My family has had to dodge items flying by them on occassion. Also have blown up a bunch of crystal glasses in our cabinet and caused family members to stub their toes and such. This is why I am not proud of it and don't even try to mess with it, it's rather frightening. BV thinks I could learn to control it, but I feel this way, what freaking good would it do?? At least someone with a clarivoyant sort of gift could help people or something. This stuff is just annoying. :rolleyes:

Well, if that is actually true, then I feel rather sad for you. If I was you, I would try to keep this mess down, learn to control it, and never use it.

That's exactly what I have been trying to do through the years. It scares me, it scares my family. I went through hypnosis once because of bad dreams I was having that kept reoccurring, and when she was done with me, she asked me if I knew what telekenisis was. I told her I had heard of it thought I may have had it, but didn't want it. She told me it was a gift that I should learn to use in a positive way and I replied with "there is NO positive way of using something like that". I never went back again.

This gift gives you power. When people gain power they sometimes want to use it in the positive way. I am sure you watched or read Lord of the Rings. Some of the characters there wanted to use the ring to do good.
Now, I am not saying that your powers are necessarily evil, but please be careful how you use them and what you use them for, although I have a feeling that you are vigilant.

Hun, I don't want it at all. I would never be comfortable with it. It doesn't seem natural I guess, and to tell you the truth, it not only startles my family members when it happens, it startles ME.

I really feel sorry for you. Have you been baptized? Do you go to church? I would try seeking spiritual help.

:confused: Could you please quit making me sound like some sort of demon??? This is not something I asked for, it just IS and I hate it. No, I don't go to church, but not because I'd burst into flames if I did. It's because I have had some bad experiences with people in churches and prefer to do my praying at home.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
Have you been baptized? Do you go to church?

This makes me laugh :D How is some preacher throughing water on her head going to help? How is the church going to help, the church may think this is bad when in reality it may be a good gift?

If Swede is afraid of this power then it is her choice of what to do with it. At this time she would rather hide it or stick it in the back closet. The only thing wrong with this is that it will not just go away it will still be there.

Swede it is your choice what to do, but if you really do have this power then you should atleast try to learn about it. I'm not saying go out and use it, but I do believe you should try to find info about it. You seem like a good hearted person so I highly doubt you would turn evil if you learned about what is going on.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
Absolutely. Meditation, yoga, and the like can really push your mind where you didn't think it was possible. But should you venture there?
Sorcery probably began with tricking other people into believing that you have certain powers that you don't, then some actually did have "powers" (probably scientifically based) and used those to astonish people, then later there were demon possessed people who could do real miracles.
When Christ came He casted out all the demons, who fell before Him and confessed Him as the Christ. What side would you rather be on?
The point is: most sorcery and magic is deception and if it's not that you don't want non of it because it's most likely dark magic (meaning that it comes from devil)


was this whole damn thread just started for more jesus crispy save a soul crap?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by STOpandthink
[B]Ok, let's be perfectly honest here. The Bible was written by men. Yes, you heard me right. But those men were infused with the Holy Spirit, QUOTE]

this is what i hate about jesus crispies. they are so damn hypocritical. they say that "pagans" or "witches" or whatever are not using "reason" , and then use the bible for their reason because it is written by "god", inspired by "god", and say "pagans" and witches are possessed by "demons". that's not reason, that's hypocritical bullshit.

Sweden, I am not calling you a demon. I am suggesting that a nice church visit might help (I do not believe you will burst into flames). If you don't like the people in one church, go to another, I am sure you will find one right for you. If you haven't been baptized, I would highly suggest that. Holy water does miracles (I am talking to you mad dog)

Ivan, what are you talking about? Pagans, witches? Possessed by demons? I think you missed the whole point.

This is why I usually never talk about this....because people get all freaky and treat me differently. I just want to be normal, that's all.

Originally posted by Swede
This is why I usually never talk about this....because people get all freaky and treat me differently. I just want to be normal, that's all.

There is no way im going to be able to say this without sounding an arsehole but... If you didnt want people to get freaky why bring it up? Its not your run of the mill kind of thing and since alot of people dont believe in it that sticks you in the catergory of attention seeking liar which obviously isnt the nicest place to be.

In respect to controlling it, Im no expert but your mind is obviously a very powerful tool and it seems that this is only manifesting in times of great stain and chaos eruputing inside your head. If possible sit down somewhere quiet and really focus on something that makes you peaceful. It can be a place, a sound, a smell, a person etc or possibly all of them but that it makes you feel secure and in control at that point. Thus when you get angry upset or whatever you can simply close your eyes and remember that place and thus you can control it.

If you can train your muscles to remember specific movements that when placed in moments of stress they peform better, it stands to reason you can train your mind to do the same thing.

Please ignore StopandThink, The church wont do you any favours unless its empty when you go there, nor will being baptised.

For the record ive been baptised and blessed, and go figure just how much effect it had on me.

Okay, I could see if I was some shut it that lived alone and had no friends, maybe you could assume or think I was lying, but my entire family has seen it and so have many friends. I only brought it up to possibly give light to the whole "scorcery/gift" thing. It all depends on who the people are and how they look at this sort of thing. I don't think of myself as evil, most that know me wouldn't, but people that don't know me personally or that don't understand it and have been brought up certain ways might think I am. THIS is what I am trying to get across here. Take it for what you want.

Btw, I have done the whole "relax" thing many times and there are only a few things that make that "feeling" go away. One is the calm voice of my husband. The other is thinking of flying through beautiful blue skies. (Second one sounds silly, I know.) It only happens in certain situations, so I can pretty much tell when I am going to need a "time out" to calm myself. I spend alot of time in the quiet of my bedroom when someone is acting up in our house to prevent this stuff from happening. Gets lonely...lol When you have 4 kids, there generally isn't alot of quiet in the house, but it's the arguing or purposeful backstabbing that I can't take. It brings the (what I call) WORST out of me.

Another part of this whole thing that I find strange is that my husband can read my mind if I connect with him. When I say connect, I mean I actually have to open up in a way that most don't. When I do, we get along so well, but sometimes I feel violated when I am that open, so I keep myself shut down most of the time because I don't like that he can hear my every thought. It is when I am open that this other part of me is the strongest. I don't like the feeling it gives me, out of control and frightened, so I shut down once again to feel less sensitive, then our relationship starts sinking.

I don't know if any of this makes sense to you or anyone here, I am probably just wasting time even bothering to explain it. I guess I just keep hoping that maybe someday someone else will have experienced the same type of thing and maybe be able to explain to me the hows and whys of it all. Until then, I will just do what I have been doing for years. Keep it shut down and in control. My husband understands, and is forgiving about it.

This is the right forum, but the wrong site. You need to find something more oriented towards your needs. A site that is more focused on "sorcery", though this is not what I would call it.
Ignoring Loki's comment, I would suggest the church and the baptism again. I am sure you have a religious friend, so just take him along for a visit to church. You won't be lonely and you'll probably feel more secure. Again, I am not insisting on anything, I am just merely expressing my opinion in a form of suggestion. It seems to me that you want to get rid of it and I am just trying to help.

Alternatively instead of running away from a problem and depending on the church when anything goes wrong like StopandThink, you could simply talk to those who have experienced similiar feelings and powers and learn from that experience.

You do not want to give this gift up only to want it again, when you could as easily control it and mantain it.

Swede its your body and mind, you have control over both if you focus. I wish the best of luck in the future with this.

And you do not need religion to guide you, you are your own pillar of strength.

I understand that I don't need religion to get past this, although I do believe in God.

As for ever wanting this back if it went away, that wouldn't happen. I see no good reason for it. Even if I had any control over it, it serves no purpose at all. I just want to be normal.

Ill take it if your throwing it out. Id love telekinetic abilities.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
If you haven't been baptized, I would highly suggest that. Holy water does miracles (I am talking to you mad dog)

Been there done that, it does nothing no man on this planet has the power to save another. If God came down here and said let me clean you up then fine I'll get in line but another human is not above me nor do they have any power over my soul.

Originally posted by Swede
Another part of this whole thing that I find strange is that my husband can read my mind if I connect with him. When I say connect, I mean I actually have to open up in a way that most don't. When I do, we get along so well,

My wife and I can connect the same way, it can come in very handy as far as knowing what type of mood the other is in. The down fall is that when one is down the other one also gets down.


I just keep hoping that maybe someday someone else will have experienced the same type of thing and maybe be able to explain to me the hows and whys of it all.

Allthough I can not move things I have had other things happen, just like the connection thing. Like I said before learning is the best way to deal. the reason it is comming out when your angry is because that is when your energy level is up. Kind of like the 100lb women lifting a car off a child. Sitting in a quiet room is a start, but focus and learning what your gift is will make the difference.

Practice makes perfect they say

Originally posted by Lokideviluk

Please ignore StopandThink, The church wont do you any favours unless its empty when you go there, nor will being baptised.



made me think of a bumper sticker i saw once, "don't pray in my school, and i won't think in your church."

maddog:
Been there done that, it does nothing no man on this planet has the power to save another. If God came down here and said let me clean you up then fine I'll get in line but another human is not above me nor do they have any power over my soul.
Neither do I. A man has no power. A saint, a priest, anybody you pick has no power. God is Power. Everything comes from Him.
no man on this planet
Not on this planet. I believe Christ is located in Heaven right now.
Ivan:
made me think of a bumper sticker i saw once, "don't pray in my school, and i won't think in your church."
That's the most stupid sticker ever. Thinking is encouraged in church, in fact, to a non-believer a church might appear dull, this is because all "the action" is going on inside.

Swede, I really hope you watched the Lord of the Rings. This is not unlike it.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Ill take it if your throwing it out. Id love telekinetic abilities.

take it if you can, it's yours

Swede, good to hear from you again.
About the situation you are discussing here- do not think the church is going to help, as you have been advised.
Years ago when I noticed that I could do and was aware of things that others around me did not discuss I went to a minister and talked with him. The first thing he said was that I was it was of the Devil and evil. This bothered me for a while until I realized the handed down ignorance of mankind in general.
You will learn to ignore the head-in-the-sand attitude of people that do not have strong abilities. They naturally assume that because these things are not happening to them that they do not exist or are evil.
Being a member of a group of like minded people would help you. The problem is separating the want to be's from the people with real abilities. I have been fortunate in being able to gather as many as four people at times with real abilities. We accomplished much. But, people move on with their lives and sooner or later split up.
Moving objects is but one of your abilities. Others are there to be developed.
I speak of such things from time to time on this forum so that I might reach that one in a thousand or so person that has true abilities. Dealing with the sceptics is a by product of reaching out.
I usually do not have the patience to speak much with sceptics.
Unfortunately the sceptic attitude has forced many with abilities to go "underground" with their situation. Do not do this, and pay no attention to the uninformed and unaware.
Unfortunately, those with strong abilities have difficulty in joining together. We are few and the distance between each of us geographically is difficult to overcome. Joined together we could accomplish so much. We could also give the proper support and help to each other that others cannot give.
I have witnessed abilities of others that would boggle most peoples minds, yet these people lived in complete isolation from a world where they felt they did not fit in. Small minded people, in their ignorance, tend to ridicule that which they do not understand. Do not give up on your abilities. Do not try to hide them. They are part of you.

Swede:

You are a lot further along than most .

I would say it's a must that you practice, excersise your mind and gain cotrol of your powers because you can probably break through the veil eventually and provide serious answers to the questions that have been dogging Humans throughout time.

Telekenetic abilities are probably a small detail of a much larger potential.

You can do that, but then there is always a chance that you will end up in a mental institution.
Do whatever you like, you sound like a reasonable purpose and I am sure you will do the right thing.

Dan Fussell, I am sorry about your experience with the priest. Unfortunately, people like those give us a bad name. With each day I see that there are fewer and fewer of "us" and it's mostly "them".

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
Moving objects is but one of your abilities. Others are there to be developed.


i don't know dan. my husband has always been able to read my mind, and our daughter appears to have a guardian of some sort that tells her when she is in danger (she actually hears the voice tell her to be careful). these things i could see being helpful to others to a point, but i have never noticed any other gifts of any kind besides this temper crap. if i had what my husband had, i'd say it was a good gift, or even what our daughter has, but not this.

sorry about the lack of caps....both of my shift keys bit the dust at the same time....odd.

Sounds like a great family to me. I think as long as you guys love each other, it's all right.