My understand is that religion began with Judaism, Christ then came and Christians took on Christianity.

I have been doing research apon research through a lot of biased sites. One side says he isn't the Messiah because the prophesies haven't been fulfilled. The other says, He will finish later or things are taken out of context.


HELP!

From the research that I did over the years I came to the conclusion that of the people living in the same place at the same time many saw things in different ways.
Some saw a prophet, some saw a messiah.
Some exaggerated some did not.

Bottom line:
It seems that the invention of a new religion allowed some to break away from the Jewish faith.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
From the research that I did over the years I came to the conclusion that of the people living in the same place at the same time many saw things in different ways.
Some saw a prophet, some saw a messiah.
Some exaggerated some did not.

Bottom line:
It seems that the invention of a new religion allowed some to break away from the Jewish faith.


I wonder what it was about the Jewish faith they didn't like...

I recall something about Jesus and the money changers.

I think Allah had a similiar problem.

Anti business liberals me thinks.

Political power and financial influence.

Originally posted by just me
My understand is that religion began with Judaism, Christ then came and Christians took on Christianity.

I have been doing research apon research through a lot of biased sites. One side says he isn't the Messiah because the prophesies haven't been fulfilled. The other says, He will finish later or things are taken out of context.


HELP!

Okay here comes a very, very simplistic answer:

Jews were the first Christians...the rest of us kind of hopped on board.

Many did not believe because he was the son of a poor family and he was meant to be a king. If a King from the House of David, where was his line. Who was this man who walked with common men and preached of love? So interpretation of the Old Testament varied even then....go figure.

Also they did not take kindly to his attitude toward the powers that be (he questioned everything) nor his attitude toward the common people (he accepted everyone). He questioned the hierarchy of the day... they saw in him someone who would destroy everything which they had built. He would topple their world and they were already in big trouble with Roman and the whole empire rule and taxation etc. Kind of a powder keg. Political basically, just like today.

Something which I find interesting is that Christians believe He will return again. Jews believe he is still coming... Seems like both will come together in the end.

Originally posted by ~Sal~

Something which I find interesting is that Christians believe He will return again. Jews believe he is still coming... Seems like both will come together in the end.

That'll be another war then, great.

An interesting (if somewhat long) read on the origins of the Bible and Christianity.

http://www.bidstrup.com/bible.htm

First, let me say that not all Jew's dont believe in Christ as the messiah.

The Jew's are in a way religion's own Doubting Thomas. Most believe in Christ as a man. A prophet to them....they know that he was remarkable.

The only thing is they think because some of his prophicies are to be fulfilled after his return, that he did not complete his right to be Messiah.

They are a decieved people.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks

They are a decieved people.

Yes Jere... there the ones being decieved here *shakes his head*

What are you shaking your head about?

Do you have something valid to say? Ever?

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
That'll be another war then, great.

Hey, that was GREAT...you gave me my first laugh of the day and I haven't even had coffee yet....:p

Here's the scoop:

The Jews thought their Messiah should come in and kick some major ASS. If Jesus would have waged war on the Romans and restored Israel to it's "rightful" place in the world then the Jews would have been behind him.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
They are a decieved people.

Nice. A 17 year kid in all his wisdom writes off the entire Jewish race as a 'decieved people'

Not a chance that you are deceived though eh?

What about those 3 billion Muslims - deceived too I guess. Write them off - poor them. Lucky you.

Originally posted by DrewM
Nice. A 17 year kid in all his wisdom writes off the entire Jewish race as a 'decieved people'

Not a chance that you are deceived though eh?

What about those 3 billion Muslims - deceived too I guess. Write them off - poor them. Lucky you.

Everyone has the chance to accept Christ. If you like to call my acceptance lucky...so be it.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Everyone has the chance to accept Christ. If you like to call my acceptance lucky...so be it.

Typical response. Ignore the obvious issues. The issues don't even register with you it seems.

I am sick of this same ol response.

Youre the one being overly typical. I have given you my answer. It's staying that way!

Your answer doesn't answer the question. It avoids it.

They are a decieved people.

Did you really just say that? Such ignorance........



Everyone has the chance to accept Christ. If you like to call my acceptance lucky...so be it.

Your religion is only a percentage of the world's religions.....with the only difference that people from your religion are constantly trying to convince people to accept their way. You don't see the Jews trying to do this....or Muslims....or Hindus......making you guys a tad bit more annoying.

THere is no way your people are going to turn the whole world Christian...why can't you just be happy with your own personal experience instead of trying to push it on others all the time?....

Originally posted by creetwins
Your religion is only a percentage of the world's religions.....with the only difference that people from your religion are constantly trying to convince people to accept their way. You don't see the Jews trying to do this....or Muslims....or Hindus......making you guys a tad bit more annoying.

THere is no way your people are going to turn the whole world Christian...why can't you just be happy with your own personal experience instead of trying to push it on others all the time?....

WE ARE CALLED TO WHITNESS!!!!!!!

Why be satisfied with only saving ourselves? We believe that all the children of Christ should here his message and accept him into their heart.

it's actually spelled Witness - but whatever. For something so important you should really spell it correctly.

It's still pushing your views down others throats.

Is that all you got to say?

I have just as much right to discuss and WITNESS for the lord as anyone else has the right to discuss their religion.

Just because you dont agree with me doesnt mean I cant talk abou it.

Nobody is saying you can't do that.

Ok then.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
An interesting (if somewhat long) read on the origins of the Bible and Christianity.

http://www.bidstrup.com/bible.htm

Tahnks for the site... it looks interesting!

Originally posted by Ed Blank
Here's the scoop:

The Jews thought their Messiah should come in and kick some major ASS. If Jesus would have waged war on the Romans and restored Israel to it's "rightful" place in the world then the Jews would have been behind him.

Yeah actually this thread caused me to ask a former preacher and it was about the expected over throw of Rome. He said the poverty thing was likely not a problem since Christ was from the House of David...

My understanding is that they have to "witness" (read harrass) a certain number of people to get into heaven.

It isn't about making the world better or helping people or doing good (though they will tell you it is). It's all about getting to heaven and spending eternity with like minded people. A place were everyone thinks alike and no one questions authority and everone has a healthy body and no one has to work hard. Sounds boring as hell to me. Where there is no challange, there is no growth.

We could never learn to be brave and patient, if there were only joy in the world. - Helen Keller

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
First, let me say that not all Jew's dont believe in Christ as the messiah.

The Jew's are in a way religion's own Doubting Thomas. Most believe in Christ as a man. A prophet to them....they know that he was remarkable.

The only thing is they think because some of his prophicies are to be fulfilled after his return, that he did not complete his right to be Messiah.

They are a decieved people.


Ok but, why did the Christians decide that the OT was wrong and went with Jesus as the Messiah?

We didnt say the OT was wrong. Some of the things changed after Christ's death...but there is still very much in the old testament that is very good and very applicable.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
We didnt say the OT was wrong. Some of the things changed after Christ's death...but there is still very much in the old testament that is very good and very applicable.

Why did they cahnge after Christ? Why believe Christ over the OT?

Good question.

Christ is the son of God who came to Earth to save us. The way salvation and grace works changed with this act.

The reason we can believe Christ is that he fufilled countless prophecies, lived a perfect life, and was raised from the dead.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Good question.

Christ is the son of God who came to Earth to save us. The way salvation and grace works changed with this act.

The reason we can believe Christ is that he fufilled countless prophecies, lived a perfect life, and was raised from the dead.


Even with seeing all the miracles they felt he performed... if he didn't fulfill all the prophesies, why did hey take him at his word? Why go by the OT and then drop it all for this man? Why didn't they require the Messiah to fulfill all prophesies instead of just believing someone who shows up?

Because not all the prophecies are to be fulfilled until after his second return.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Because not all the prophecies are to be fulfilled until after his second return.
-------------------------------------
But, I thought most of these prophecies were written after his death.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Because not all the prophecies are to be fulfilled until after his second return.


Is that written in the OT? If so, could you name the verse?

If it's not written in the OT, why obide by it? If it's in the NT, wouldn't it be going by what Jesus said and that would be taking him at his word again....

I think that the Jews are still waiting for their messiah.They will look to a yet to emerge charismatic political leader who will bring "peace" to the Middle east for a short time,and who will also authorise the rebuilding of their temple in Jerusalem.(Incidentally you may or may not be aware that certain elements of Rabbinical Jewry are in fact preparing for that very eventuality-sacrificial implements have been re-created and Rabbis are being educated in the ritual art of animal sacrifice).

The unfortunate thing about the "messiah" whom they welcome with open arms,will set himself up in the holy of holies in the temple,demanding the worship of the Jews.Those who refuse will be put to death.

Anyone who can appear to genuinely solve the middle east issue,would be feted by all and sundry.Many believe this "anti christ"-which in fact literally means "another Christ" will be a yet to emerge leader of a European Union which would be more like a cohesive political entity to an extent which would far exceed the current "Union" in scope and power.An effective "United States of Europe"

In fact-one high ranking European official,whose name escapes me,once said something along the lines of (not exact quote) "what we need now is a real and effective European leader-be he God,or be he the devil....."

Also as an aside-the Golden gate entrance to Jerusalem in the city walls is blocked up,and has been for many many years.This gate is only to be opened when Meshiach comes to free his people-allowing him to enter the city.

hope this is of help....

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
-------------------------------------
But, I thought most of these prophecies were written after his death.

No.

Most of these prophecies were written in the old testament before his coming to Earth.

Originally posted by just me
Is that written in the OT? If so, could you name the verse?

If it's not written in the OT, why obide by it? If it's in the NT, wouldn't it be going by what Jesus said and that would be taking him at his word again....

What I mean is there are verses that have to do with his arrival back to Earth. Like putting his foot on the mount of olives among another things.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
What I mean is there are verses that have to do with his arrival back to Earth. Like putting his foot on the mount of olives among another things.


Are these verses in the OT and if so, could you name the verses or, at least, the section?

Originally posted by just me
Are these verses in the OT and if so, could you name the verses or, at least, the section?


I guess I stumped ya?

perfect according to whom? i think the man was gettin more pussy than any of us guys could ever dream of getting.
son of god. giggle....... did you know that the translation got it wrong. it is said to be a son born to a young woman , not a virgin.
raised from the dead. another way of saying the spirit leaves the body to go on. dead people don't get up and walk. it's against the law of nature. and if they did, i'd bash it's brains in for being a zombie.



Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Good question.

Christ is the son of God who came to Earth to save us. The way salvation and grace works changed with this act.

The reason we can believe Christ is that he fufilled countless prophecies, lived a perfect life, and was raised from the dead.

Ivan you said:
“did you know that the translation got it wrong. it is said to be a son born to a young woman , not a virgin.”

Actually that’s what the anti-Christian folks say, in an attempt to prove any of the prophecies concerning Jesus wrong. What they “forget” to mention is that the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Old Testament, translated by Jews many years before the birth of Christ, used the Greek word for virgin when translating that term young girl. The word was translated as it was intended.

Sorry Jere I couldn't help but jump in there. You're doing a great job, keep at it.

Originally posted by stark
Sorry Jere I couldn't help but jump in there. You're doing a great job, keep at it.


I thought he was long gone.